What makes ultrarunning so compelling? Is it the elite athletes breaking records, the runners fighting through the final miles, or the stories of ordinary people doing something they never knew they could accomplish? On this episode of Endurance State of Mind, we sit down with Chris Worden, one of the most recognizable voices behind the live coverage of some of the biggest races in ultrarunning.

Chris has completed more than 170 races and has spent years on both sides of the microphone—as an ultrarunner and as a broadcaster covering some of the most iconic endurance events in the country. Through his work with Mountain Outpost and Aravaipa Running, Chris has had a front-row seat to the evolution of trail running, ultramarathons, and the rapidly growing world of live ultrarunning coverage.

From Cocodona 250 and Western States to Hardrock 100, Black Canyon, Javelina, Desert Solstice, and other major trail races, Chris has watched some of the greatest performances in the sport unfold in real time. But what makes his perspective unique is that he isn't only interested in the front of the pack. Chris believes some of the most powerful stories in ultrarunning are happening much farther back.

In this episode, we talk about how Chris went from being a runner and former radio broadcaster to becoming one of the voices of modern ultrarunning. He explains how an opportunity to help broadcast Desert Solstice in 2018 ultimately turned into years of covering major ultramarathons and trail races across the country.

Chris shares what it is actually like to spend hour after hour behind the microphone covering an ultramarathon, including the preparation, research, storytelling, sleep deprivation, and constant attention required to follow races that can last 24, 48, 60, or even 100+ hours.

We also get into what Chris calls "farming for engagement"—his approach to meeting runners before races, walking around race towns, attending expos, talking with competitors, learning their stories, and finding the details that can later bring a live broadcast to life.

Because in ultrarunning, everyone has a story.

Chris explains why getting to know the runners before the race allows him and his broadcast partners to tell better stories once the race is underway. A runner who may be completely unknown to the audience on Friday can suddenly become one of the people thousands of viewers are cheering for on Saturday.

And that leads into one of the biggest themes of this conversation: the importance of covering the back of the pack.

The front of an ultramarathon gets the headlines. The records, the podiums, the course records, and the elite athletes naturally attract attention. But Chris believes the runners fighting through the final miles can create just as much—if not more—emotional investment from the audience.

We discuss some of the unforgettable moments from Cocodona 250, including the incredible story of Wayne Amo, who came within roughly a minute and a half of the cutoff after covering 250 miles. Chris describes what it was like watching the clock, doing the math, and trying to will Wayne toward the finish line as the entire broadcast team became emotionally invested in the outcome.

That story becomes a perfect example of why ultrarunning is different.

You may not be able to relate to a professional athlete running a record-setting performance, but you can relate to someone fighting through exhaustion, doubt, pain, and uncertainty just to make it to the finish line.

We talk about why those stories matter and why the ultra community has become such an accessible and welcoming part of endurance sports.

Chris also shares his thoughts on how ultrarunning has changed over the years. More generous cutoffs, more coaches working with everyday runners, improved race coverage, better production, social media, documentaries, YouTube, and the growing number of people discovering trail running have all helped make the sport more accessible.

The conversation also dives into the incredible people working behind the scenes to make live ultramarathon coverage possible.

We talk about follow filmers, bike crews, drones, camera operators, and the people running miles and miles alongside athletes just to capture footage for the broadcast. Some of these camera operators are elite-level runners themselves, while others are simply willing to put themselves through an incredible physical effort to tell the story of someone else's race.

Chris explains why all of these pieces are necessary to create a live ultramarathon broadcast and why following a runner through difficult terrain for hours can be its own endurance event.

From there, we look toward the future.

Could ultrarunning eventually have a regular place on ESPN or another major sports network?

Chris doesn't necessarily believe full live broadcasts of 100-mile races are the most realistic model for mainstream television, but he sees a real opportunity for an ultrarunning roundup or weekly show that highlights the biggest races, performances, personalities, and storylines in the sport.

With major races already drawing thousands—and sometimes tens of thousands—of viewers online, the audience is clearly there.

We discuss what needs to happen for ultrarunning to continue breaking into the mainstream, including sponsorship, increased viewership, better storytelling, documentaries, athlete-created content, and the importance of demonstrating the value of the sport to sponsors and media companies.

Chris also talks about the growing influence of ultrarunning films and documentaries, including The Chase, and why he believes the next generation of storytelling could be a major part of the sport's future.

One of the most interesting parts of the conversation is the discussion around failure.

In a world where social media often shows only the wins, podiums, PRs, course records, and perfect finishes, Chris believes the stories where things go wrong can sometimes be even more compelling.

A DNF.

A failed attempt.

A race that doesn't go according to plan.

An athlete who has to go back to the drawing board.

Those moments create vulnerability and make elite athletes more relatable to everyday runners.

We discuss how that idea applies to athletes like Max Jolliffe, whose difficult experience at Cocodona was followed by an incredible performance at Badwater 135. Chris explains why the story doesn't end with the failure—and why watching an athlete come back and try again can be one of the most compelling narratives in endurance sports.

We also get Chris's thoughts on the future of athlete storytelling and why runners may benefit from putting more of their journey out into the world instead of only documenting the final successful result.

And then we get into one of the most fun parts of the episode:

Chris Worden's Mount Rushmore of North American ultrarunners.

His four selections:

Ann Trason
Courtney Dauwalter
Scott Jurek
Carl "The Speedgoat" Meltzer

Chris explains why each of them deserves a place on his personal ultrarunning Mount Rushmore and discusses the possibility that today's generation of runners—including names like Jim Walmsley and Rachel Entrekin—could eventually force their way into that conversation.

We also talk trail running shoes as Chris reveals his current favorites for a 50K, including the HOKA Speedgoat 7, Mizuno Neo Vista/Neo Acero, and Mount to Coast H1, and he explains which shoe he'd grab for a fast, runnable Arizona trail.

Finally, we look ahead to the future of Aravaipa Running, Mountain Outpost, and live race coverage, including the possibility of coverage expanding to races such as Zion 100.

This is a conversation about much more than broadcasting.

It's about why people run, why people watch, why stories matter, and why ultrarunning continues to attract people who are willing to do things they aren't sure they can accomplish.

Whether you're an ultramarathon runner, trail runner, marathoner, triathlete, endurance athlete, race director, crew member, pacer, or simply someone fascinated by human performance, there's something in this conversation for you.

In this episode:

00:00 – Introducing Chris Worden
01:30 – How Chris got into running
03:39 – Chris's path into radio and broadcasting
06:30 – From finance and accounting back to broadcasting
07:00 – The beginning of Mountain Outpost live coverage
08:00 – Broadcasting 24-hour endurance events
10:00 – Covering more than 170 races
10:30 – The dream of working in ultrarunning
12:00 – Preparing for major ultramarathons
14:00 – Chris's research process before races
15:00 – Why runner surveys matter
16:00 – "Farming for engagement"
17:00 – Meeting runners before the race
18:00 – Finding the stories behind the bib numbers
20:00 – The incredible story of Wayne Amo at Cocodona
22:00 – Watching a runner fight the cutoff
24:00 – Why telling back-of-the-pack stories matters
26:00 – The Golden Hour at Cocodona
27:00 – What Chris learned from Ironman
29:00 – Why the back of the pack represents most runners
31:00 – Why ultrarunning is becoming more accessible
33:00 – Generous cutoffs and the growth of the sport
35:00 – The people behind the cameras
36:00 – Follow filmers, bikes, and drones
38:00 – How difficult it is to follow elite ultrarunners
39:00 – The future of ultrarunning coverage
40:00 – Could ultrarunning make it to ESPN?
42:00

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Walker Higgins joins Endurance State of Mind for one of our most anticipated episodes yet. If you've spent any time in the ultrarunning or trail running community throughout the Southeast, you've likely heard Walker's name. His resume includes some of the toughest endurance events in the world, including Badwater 135, Spartathlon, expedition racing, multi-day adventure races, elite 100-mile performances, and one of the most remarkable pacing displays we've ever seen at Six Days in the Dome. Beyond his accomplishments as an athlete, Walker has inspired countless runners through coaching, race directing, and creating unforgettable endurance events that have helped shape trail running throughout Louisiana and the Gulf South.

In this episode, Walker shares his journey from an adventurous kid growing up in Louisiana to becoming one of the most respected ultrarunners in the region. He talks about the races that changed his life, the mindset required to compete at the highest level, and the lessons he's learned after decades of pushing the limits of human endurance.

Walker tells the story of how his very first 5K sparked a competitive fire that never went away. After getting passed late in the race by another runner—and then by someone pushing a stroller—he became determined to see just how far he could take his potential. That single race ultimately led him into adventure racing, expedition racing, ultramarathons, and some of the most demanding endurance competitions on the planet.

We spend time exploring Walker's background in expedition racing, where athletes spend multiple days navigating forests, rivers, mountains, and wilderness using mountain biking, kayaking, trekking, climbing, swimming, and running. He explains why those experiences became the perfect foundation for ultrarunning and how they built the mental resilience that continues to define his racing today.

The conversation then shifts to Badwater 135, widely considered one of the toughest foot races in the world. Walker discusses what it takes to qualify, why he intentionally built an aggressive racing schedule to strengthen his application, and the valuable lessons he learned after pushing his body to its limits in pursuit of one goal.

We also dive into Spartathlon, the legendary 153-mile race from Athens to Sparta, Greece. Walker shares the rich history behind the event, what it's like to follow the ancient route of Pheidippides, run past centuries-old ruins, cross mountains in the middle of the night, and experience one of the most iconic endurance races ever created.

One of the most entertaining stories of the episode comes from Walker's own wedding, where a friendly challenge from another ultrarunner convinced him to sign up for his very first 100-mile race. That moment became the catalyst for a career that would eventually take him around the world.

One of the biggest highlights of this conversation is Walker's detailed breakdown of his incredible performance at Six Days in the Dome. If you're interested in race execution, pacing strategy, or elite ultrarunning, this section alone is worth the listen.

Walker explains:

• How he maintained nearly identical lap splits for over 100 miles.
• Why consistency beats speed in long-distance racing.
• The mental tricks he used to stay focused for nearly fourteen hours.
• Why bathroom breaks became part of his race strategy.
• How positive thinking helped him push through some of the hardest moments of his career.
• What it takes to execute an elite 100-mile performance from start to finish.

Throughout the episode, Walker shares practical advice for runners of every level.

We discuss:

• Preparing for your first ultramarathon.
• Why most runners lose the race before the starting line.
• The importance of pacing discipline.
• Training slower to race faster.
• Nutrition and hydration strategies.
• Learning to adapt when your race falls apart.
• The difference between physical fitness and mental toughness.
• Why consistency always beats shortcuts.
• Building grit over years—not weeks.

Walker also discusses his coaching philosophy and why learning to embrace discomfort during training often becomes the difference between success and disappointment on race day. Rather than chasing instant results, he encourages athletes to become comfortable with patience, consistency, and long-term development.

Anthony and Zach also share their own experiences with endurance sports, pacing mistakes, visualization techniques, caffeine strategies, and the mental battles that occur deep into ultramarathons.

One of the biggest announcements of the episode comes in the second half:

WHOA Racing is back.

Walker officially shares the return of WHOA Racing, the Louisiana race organization known for creating some of the South's most unique endurance events.

He discusses:

• The return of the Cane Field Classic.
• Plans for bringing back Children of the Cane.
• The legacy of Beast for a Day.
• Why he stepped away from race directing.
• What inspired him to bring these races back.
• New endurance event ideas currently in development.
• His vision for the future of trail running throughout Louisiana and the Gulf South.

Walker also talks about The Block Fit in Baton Rouge, where he coaches everyone from beginner runners to collegiate athletes and elite ultramarathon competitors. He explains how the gym has grown into a complete training facility featuring strength training, endurance coaching, yoga, Pilates, sauna, cold plunge, recovery services, and personal coaching.

Later in the episode, Walker discusses his upcoming goals, including chasing a sub-five-minute mile at 44 years old, returning to the New Orleans Ultramarathon, and pursuing an ambitious sub-six-hour 50-mile performance. His willingness to set bold goals—even when failure is possible—offers valuable perspective for athletes at every level.

Walker closes the conversation with one of the most powerful messages we've heard on Endurance State of Mind:

Don't rush your endurance journey.

You don't have to run a 100-mile race next year. You don't need to copy elite athletes. You don't need to constantly chase bigger races. Build your fitness, enjoy the process, and allow endurance sports to become something that lasts for decades rather than just a few seasons.

Whether you're training for your first marathon, your first 50K, your first 100-mile race, preparing for Badwater 135, dreaming about Spartathlon, or simply looking for inspiration to become mentally stronger, this episode is packed with stories, lessons, and practical advice from one of the Gulf South's most accomplished endurance athletes.

If you enjoyed this episode, please like the video, subscribe to the channel, and leave a comment letting us know your favorite takeaway from Walker's story. Your support helps us continue bringing conversations with elite athletes, coaches, race directors, and inspiring members of the endurance community.

Thanks for listening, and we'll see you on the next episode of Endurance State of Mind.

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This week on Endurance State of Mind, we bring on one of the most well rounded athletes and sharpest cycling minds we've had on the show. John Daly. Six foot seven, 250 pound former Citadel football player. 18 year active duty Navy Civil Engineer Corps officer. Deployed across the world with the CBs, including hard tours through Europe and Africa. Powerlifter who has bench pressed 500 pounds on two different continents. Road cyclist. Rower. Peloton dominator turned Gulf Coast Bicycle Club regular. And the guy in our group chat who can actually make sense of what we just watched at the Tour de France.

We open with John's journey. From growing up in Marietta, Georgia playing baseball as a right handed first baseman who nobody needed, to earning a football scholarship at The Citadel where he studied civil engineering under a full ride. From working construction and design out of school to joining the Navy in 2007 to build in some of the toughest places on earth. And from powerlifting his way to a 500 pound bench in the 275 pound class to picking up a Peloton bike with his wife in 2017 that quietly rewrote what he thought was possible.

John tells us about the moment he realized dominating the Peloton leaderboard was not the same thing as being a road cyclist, buying his first entry level Giant Contend 3 from a shop in Georgia, and finding his community on the Mississippi Gulf Coast under the mentorship of Eddie Holmes and the Gulf Coast Bicycle Club. He talks about deploying with NMCB 133 across Europe and Africa, using sport as a shared language when no other language works, and how a soccer ball or rugby ball can build trust and camaraderie faster than any English speaking classroom ever could.

He walks us through his climb of Haleakala in Hawaii, the 10,000 foot stratovolcano that taught him a hard lesson about watts per kilogram when you weigh 250 pounds. The bonk. The nutrition failure. The fact that he had to drive down the first 5,000 feet of descent because he could no longer safely hold the brakes on a six percent grade. And what it means to prepare for one specific day when you do not live on the island where the climb sits.

Then he takes us inside his most recent big ride. Seattle to Portland (STP). 206 miles from Husky Stadium to Portland in a single day. Five AM wave, on the road for over 12 hours, on the bus back until midnight, home at 2 AM. 6,400 people signed up. Roughly 10 percent do it in one day. John was one of them.

And then we get into the reason a lot of you clicked this episode. The 2025 Tour de France, unpacked from the inside out by someone who actually understands what he is looking at.

We dig into Tadej Pogačar's performance on Alpe d'Huez. Seven watts per kilo for 35 minutes. A two and a half minute gap to Sep Kuss, Carapaz, and Lenny Martinez that Tadej closed alone after Adam Yates set him up at the base of the mountain. John explains why he thinks Tadej was fully peaked for that specific stage, why his consistency across the year is the strongest evidence for his physiology being legitimate, and how his relatively heavier build at 68 kilos changes the math on wattage output. He also explains why Tadej climbing that mountain on a Colnago Y1 Rs aerobike matters, and why Chris Froome's high cadence style might not be what works for the current era of climbers.

We tackle the doping questions head on. The high altitude alibi and the theory of microdosed EPO hiding under expected altitude bloodwork spikes. Whether the anti doping wake up calls at 2 AM for Jonas Vingegaard and 5 AM for Tadej Pogačar between two of the hardest mountain stages of the tour were necessary, appropriate, or a step too far. Whether Jonas being woken in the middle of the night played a role in his crash on stage 14 that broke his collarbone and ended his tour. And what a real biological passport can and cannot prove.

We break down the wide open podium fight for second and third after Jonas went out. Remco Evenepoel. Isaac Del Toro. Paul Seixas. Tom Pidcock. Florian Lipowitz. The Red Bull Bora Hansgrohe two team leader problem. Sep Kuss missing his feed and going over the barrier at speed on the descent (thankfully into the safety net). What the Peloton dynamics look like when the whole race is essentially a Tadej Pogačar exhibition.

We get into cutting edge nutrition science. The exogenous lactate gels being tested by Labdafield, Exolactate, Santa Madre, and Innervit. Whether a four percent gain is actually meaningful at the top of the sport, or whether it disappears into the noise of training effect and individual variability. Why ketones seem to have shifted from performance to recovery in the peloton.

We close with the Champs Elysees finish that John calls one of the most otherworldly moments in cycling. Matthew van der Poel kicking Tadej Pogačar off his wheel on the Montmartre climb. Tadej holding 700 watts for over a minute just to hang on. MVDP dropping an estimated 1,500 watt sprint (two horsepower) to take the stage by the width of a wheel. Whether Jasper Philipsen sat up and let van der Poel take it. And Lance Armstrong's observation on The Move that Lance himself would have never even bothered racing that stage.

We finish with the big question. How many more Tours can Tadej win? Zach says five. John says four. Both of us agree the window will narrow, but nobody in the current peloton looks like they can push him one on one the way Jonas can.

If you love the Tour de France, want to actually understand the numbers, or just want a great conversation about the sport we all love, this one is for you.

EPISODE TIMESTAMPS

00:00 Welcome. Introducing John Daly.
 01:15 From Marietta baseball to The Citadel football and engineering.
 03:00 Joining the Navy Civil Engineer Corps in 2007.
 04:00 Powerlifting to a 500 pound bench on two continents.
 05:15 The Peloton bike that started the cycling journey.
 06:20 Getting the first road bike and joining the Gulf Coast Bicycle Club.
 07:30 Deploying with NMCB 133 across Europe and Africa.
 08:15 Sport as an international language.
 09:30 Shoutout to Eddie Holmes and the Gulf Coast Bicycle Club community.
 10:20 From engineering right out of college to active duty.
 11:00 How height changes the drafting math on a bike.
 12:20 Bart and the impossible draft off a small rider.
 13:00 Why powerlifting eventually reaches a diminishing returns wall.
 14:30 The five pound difference at the top of any sport.
 16:45 Seattle to Portland 206 miles in a day.
 19:45 6,400 riders, 700 do it in one day.
 20:45 Climbing Haleakala from sea level to 10,000 feet.
 22:45 The descent when your hands are too cashed to hold the brakes.
 23:45 Sep Kuss missing his feed and the net that saved him.
 25:30 The physical feeling of missing nutrition mid climb.
 27:00 Kicking off the Tour de France deep dive with Alpe d'Huez.
 29:00 Why John's evidence for Tadej is consistency across the year.
 30:00 Adam Yates as leadout and the two and a half minute chase.
 31:00 Seven watts per kilo for 35 minutes.
 32:30 Johan Bruyneel's take on The Move.
 33:00 Greg LeMond and Anthony's thoughts on cadence versus wattage.
 34:30 Genetic VO2 max versus trainable VO2 max.
 35:30  Why Tadej climbing on an aero bike matters.
 36:00 Bike frame material evolution from Lance's era to now.
 37:40 Cadence as a personal fingerprint.
 38:00 The exogenous lactate gel discussion.
 39:30 Whether four percent is real or noise.
 41:00 Did Jonas's absence help Tadej run away with it?
 43:00 The Remco versus Lipowitz Red Bull Bora Hansgrohe leadership question.
 45:00 Zach on the high altitude alibi and microdosing EPO.
 46:00 Why the microdose ceiling limits the theory.
 48:00 Middle of the night anti doping wake up calls.
 50:00 Tadej's response and the character piece.
 53:00 Descending as a mental endurance event.
 55:00 Tadej's simple disciplined life in Slovenia.
 56:30 Van der Poel on Montmartre.
 57:00 Why Tadej skipped the Vuelta this year.
 58:00 The UCI Worlds in Rwanda as the next big target.
 01:00:15 Facing Primoz Roglic once he drops in.
 01:01:15 The 2021 Vuelta time trial where Tadej snatched yellow.
 01:01:45 Neutralizing the general classification times on the final stage.
 01:04:15 Why the neutralization actually cost France a podium.
 01:05:20 Ending on Van der Poel's 1,500 watt sprint to win it by a wheel.
 01:07:00 How many more tours can Tadej win?
 01:08:00 Mads Pettersen bridging gaps for green jersey points.
 01:09:00 Did Jasper Philipsen let Van der Poel take Montmartre?
 01:11:00 The one wheel finish and Lance's take on The Move.
 01:12:00 Tadej with no theory of victory still refusing to sit up.

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Just the two hosts this week, back behind the mics fresh off Big Butts 50K in the Mississippi summer, with a heat index that touched 106 and a story arc that included a two hour personal best, a survival mode second half, and a whole lot to unpack.

We open with the reality of racing an ultra when the sun peaks at 97, the humidity turns the course into a sauna, and the heat advisories keep rolling in. Anthony walks through his day lap by lap. How he set expectations without telling anyone, how he executed nutrition to a T after learning from Mississippi 50, how he lost his entire bottle of carbs and electrolytes in the first half mile of lap four, and how he still hunted down a sub 6 hour finish by sprinting the last two miles at a 190 heart rate with 10 minutes to spare. Two hour PR. Mission accomplished.

Zach walks through his own race, including how the humidity hit like a light switch at the start of lap three, how his ice bandana strategy stopped working, and how his core body temperature stayed elevated so long that he registered a low grade fever seven hours after crossing the line. Real talk about what it takes to just get to the finish line in these conditions, and why the Big Butts 100K finish rate this year was four out of seventeen.

We give major shoutouts to David Slowick for a podium finish at the 100K, the Delot family, Ward, Jamie, Lacey Saul, and Michael Yarbrough for showing up in that oven. And we talk through Anthony's three bucket framework that made this his best race in years: execution discipline, sleep hygiene, and nutrition.

Then we pivot to one of the coolest sporting moments of the year. Josh Kerr broke the mile world record over the weekend. 3:42, taking down Hicham El Guerrouj's 27 year old record. Kerr called his shot months in advance under a project he named Two Two Two (222 seconds to break 3:43). He documented the entire vulnerable journey publicly, showed his prep workouts, and delivered on the biggest stage. We dig into what made it special beyond the number: the courage to call your shot in front of the world, the discipline of showing up every day, and the Steve Magness quote that stopped us both in our tracks. "On the starting line, trying harder is the enemy. You spend years grabbing control, then in the moment that matters most, the skill is letting go of it."

Then we head to France for a Tour de France week 2 that flipped the entire race on its head.

Tadej Pogačar answered every question people had about whether the field could keep him close. He went from being down 8 minutes on Jonas Vingegaard early to putting up an 11 minute swing on a single stage, opening a lead that already feels insurmountable with a week to go. Then Jonas crashed on stage 14 and broke his collarbone, ending his tour. And a controversy exploded around the anti doping officials waking Jonas at 2 AM and Tadej at 5 AM to test them between two of the most demanding mountain stages of the tour, with the cycling community raising real questions about how that was handled.

We break down what a wide open podium fight for second and third looks like now. Remco Evenepoel, Isaac Del Toro, Paul Seixas, Tom Pidcock, Florian Lipowitz, and the mess at Red Bull Bora Hansgrohe with two team leaders who clearly do not want to work together. Plus a great Lance Armstrong quote from The Move about Tade being fully aware of the yellow jersey count he could be chasing.

And of course we wrap the tour segment with the running Watch Update from the peloton. Pogačar wore his $989,000 Richard Mille. Matthew van der Poel showed up with a $300,000 Richard Mille and a Rolex Daytona. Jasper Philipsen sported a $60,000 AP. Quinn Simmons in a Tudor Black Bay flying the American flag. And Ben O'Connor in a Cartier Santos.

We close with a huge shoutout to Sierra Morris, host of the Shattered Runner Podcast, who absolutely shattered her goals at the Vermont 100 this weekend after publicly documenting her mental and physical training. Both Anthony and Zach will be appearing on her show soon.

If you love endurance sports, PR stories, world records, cycling drama, or just watching normal people do genuinely hard things in horrible conditions, this one is for you.

EPISODE TIMESTAMPS

00:00 Welcome. Fresh off Big Butts 50K.
 01:05 Heat index of 106 in Jackson, Mississippi. The AAR from weather.com.
 02:00 Only 4 of 17 finished the Big Butts 100K.
 04:45 Anthony's expectations coming into year two of Big Butts.
 06:00 Nailing nutrition and heart rate management.
 07:30 Lap one and two overconfidence.
 08:00 The two hour PR and sub 6 finish.
 09:20 Losing the bottle of carbs and electrolytes at the start of lap four.
 12:15 The sprint to the finish at 190 heart rate.
 15:00 Zach's survival lap and the humidity light switch.
 17:30 Ice bandanas, core body temperature, and a post race low grade fever.
 20:00 Shoutout to David Slowick and the 100K podium.
 22:30 Anthony's three bucket framework: execution discipline, sleep hygiene, nutrition.
 25:30 Not going to Taco Bell (this time).
 27:00 Josh Kerr breaks the mile world record.
 28:00 Project Two Two Two and calling his shot.
 30:00 The vulnerability of documenting the journey publicly.
 34:00 The Steve Magness quote that stopped us both.
 38:00 Tour de France week 2 recap.
 39:00 Tade's massive swing on Jonas.
 40:00 Jonas crashes on stage 14 and breaks his collarbone.
 41:00 The 2 AM anti doping controversy.
 42:00 A wide open podium fight for second and third.
 47:00 Red Bull Bora Hansgrohe's two team leader dysfunction.
 50:30 Lance Armstrong from The Move on Tade and the yellow jersey count.
 53:00 The Watch Update from the peloton.
 55:00 Sierra Morris shatters her Vermont 100 goals.
 56:00 Big Butts shoutouts across the running community.
 57:30 Mic drop.

TOPICS COVERED

Racing an ultra in extreme heat and humidity
 Pacing, nutrition, and execution discipline for a 50K
 Sleep hygiene as a race performance lever
 Big Butts Ultra 50K and 100K race recap
 Community shoutouts across the Mississippi ultra scene
 Josh Kerr breaking the mile world record after 27 years
 Project Two Two Two and the value of calling your shot
 Steve Magness on automaticity and letting go on race day
 Tour de France 2025 week 2 recap
 Tadej Pogačar's dominant swing on the general classification
 Jonas Vingegaard's crash and broken collarbone
 Anti doping test timing and rider health controversy
 The wide open podium fight between Remco, Del Toro, Seixas, Pidcock, and Lipowitz
 Red Bull Bora Hansgrohe's leadership dynamic
 The rider watch trends and the money on the wrist at the tour
 Sierra Morris and the Shattered Runner Podcast Vermont 100 story

ABOUT THE SHOW

Endurance State of Mind is a podcast for endurance athletes who want more than splits and finish times. Hosted by Anthony Herrington and Zach, we sit down with ultra runners, triathletes, cyclists, coaches, and everyday athletes to talk training, mindset, recovery, race day strategy, and the stories behind the stories. New episode every week.

Follow Endurance State of Mind on Instagram, YouTube, Spotify, and Apple Podcasts. If this episode hit you, please rate, review, and share with a friend who needs to hear it.

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Every now and then you come across an athlete whose story forces you to rethink what endurance is really about. Not because of how many races they have won, but because of how many times they have been willing to start over. That is exactly who Epic Bill Bradley is.

This week on Endurance State of Mind, we sit down with one of the most respected and recognizable figures in the ultra endurance world. Bill has swum the English Channel. He has finished the Badwater 135 in Death Valley in 57 hours cramping so hard he had to sit in a cold bath through the night. He has biked across America. He has climbed Denali. He has crossed the Grand Canyon rim to rim seven times. He is a nine time Ironman finisher. He has raced the Ultraman in Hawaii against Olympians. And he has become one of the most iconic figures at the legendary Arrowhead 135.

But if you ask Bill, that is not what his legacy is built on. His legacy is built on the fact that he keeps showing up. After his marriages ended. After his 10 million dollar video store empire fell to Netflix. After more DNFs than most athletes would ever be willing to talk about. After the depression. After the bankruptcy. Bill made persistence his identity.

In this conversation, Bill takes us through the entire journey.

He starts with getting cut from every ball sport in the ninth grade, running out of the basketball locker room crying, and watching a teammate quietly practice all summer and make the baseball team while everyone else quit for good. That was the moment he decided he was never going to quit anything again in his life.

He walks us through the drinking years as a young union electrician, opening 13 video stores with a stack of credit cards after every bank in San Francisco turned him down, growing that chain into a 10 million dollar empire that beat Blockbuster head to head, and then watching Netflix quietly wipe it all out. He talks about filing for bankruptcy, being told by his second wife "this is not what I signed up for," his dad calling every night to do what Bill would later find out were suicide checks, and how running was the only tool that would let him think straight for an hour a day.

He talks about the Tony Robbins seminar at 30 that started his exit from drinking, walking on coals as a metaphor for attacking his fears, and finally quitting for good and going to AA.

Then we get into the racing. His first Ironman DNF in Canada at 105 degrees. Coming back the next year to finish. Nine Ironmans and one Canada tattoo on his left calf. Sneaking his way into the Ultraman in Hawaii. Making the decision to swim the English Channel on the spot after realizing a channel swimmer had only beat him by five minutes in an Ultraman ocean swim. Qualifying with a six hour cold water swim inside of six months. Finishing Badwater 135. Biking across America in the Race Across America at 18 hours a day on the seat for 16 straight days, wearing four pairs of bike shorts by the end.

We get into Denali. Five attempts. Getting stuck in an eight day blizzard at the 10,000 foot camp. His mountain guide roasting him for peeing outside the tent during a blizzard. Getting so sick he had to descend with a Russian tent mate who had boot bang while Bill kept falling weak, both of them chained together on the rope like a chain gang.

And then rock climbing Half Dome via the snake dike route to attack his fear of heights. Skydiving. Illegal after hours bungee jumping off a bridge. And the incredible moment his lead climber told him "if you fall on this granite slab, I am going to pancake you and we are going to grind down together until we stop."

We finish with the one piece of advice Bill gives every young athlete or entrepreneur who tells him they want to do something big. Do not sit in the bike shop cutting the ends off your gear shifters trying to make things perfect. Get in the arena. Start. Stumble. Learn. Come back. Then you can stand tall and look people in the eye. That is the entire game.

Bill is featured in six documentaries. His two most well known are Epic Bill (available on Amazon and Apple TV) and Forty Below, which follows his journey at the Arrowhead 135 in International Falls. Watch them. Then come back and listen to this conversation.

If you have ever been cut, laughed at, broken, bankrupt, or told what you were chasing was impossible, this is your episode.

EPISODE TIMESTAMPS

00:00 Welcome. Introducing Epic Bill Bradley.
 02:36 If a little is good, a lot has to be better. The origin of an extreme mindset.
 03:05 Fifth in the county in 7th grade. Cut from every ball sport by 9th grade.
 04:39 Running out of the basketball locker room crying.
 05:43 The teammate who practiced all summer while everybody else quit.
 07:00 Never quitting anything ever again.
 07:31 The four mile Tahoe run that ended with a bus ride back to the hotel.
 08:20 Union electrician years. Marriage, three kids, and heavy drinking.
 10:00 Opening the video store with 15 credit cards after every bank said no.
 11:00 The Tony Robbins seminar. Walking on coals. Starting the exit from drinking.
 12:00 Losing the drinking crowd. Finding new friends who ride bikes.
 13:30 Building a $10 million video store empire that beat Blockbuster.
 19:22 Netflix arrives. The second divorce. The bankruptcy filing.
 22:15 "This is not what I signed up for." Dad's nightly suicide checks.
 23:22 Running was the only way to think straight.
 24:42 Chasing an Ironman Hawaii qualifying time.
 26:00 The 105 degree DNF at Ironman Canada. Learning about hyponatremia the hard way.
 27:00 Coming back the next year to finish.
 28:00 Nine Ironman finishes. One Canada tattoo on the calf.
 29:00 The Ultraman in Hawaii and how it opened the door to the English Channel.
 30:15 Deciding to swim the English Channel on the spot.
 32:00 Chasing races that scare him. Big stakes as a way to feel alive.
 32:35 Biking across America in 16 days at 18 hours a day.
 35:32 Finishing Badwater 135 in 57 hours. The cramping he still remembers.
 39:00 Seven big races a year at his peak.
 42:34 Denali. Five attempts.
 45:00 The blizzard, the pee stake, and the guide who almost failed him for it.
 46:00 Getting sick on Denali and descending on a rope chained to a Russian.
 48:15 Cold versus heat. Which race is a darker mental place.
 49:00 Attacking a fear of heights through rock climbing, skydiving, and bungee jumping.
 52:00 The illegal bungee jump off a bridge at dusk.
 54:00 Climbing Half Dome via the snake dike route.
 56:00 "If you fall, I will pancake you."
 58:00 The single best piece of advice Bill gives every young athlete.
 01:00:10 Where to watch Epic Bill and Forty Below.

TOPICS COVERED

The mindset behind extreme endurance events
 Getting cut in ninth grade and using rejection as fuel for life
 Building a $10 million business with credit cards
 Losing an empire to Netflix and rebuilding through running
 Divorce, bankruptcy, and using ultras as therapy
 Quitting drinking at 30 through Tony Robbins and AA
 Ironman racing and qualifying for Hawaii
 The Ultraman Hawaii experience
 Swimming the English Channel qualifier
 Finishing the Badwater 135 in Death Valley
 Racing across America (RAAM)
 Climbing Denali five times
 Rock climbing Half Dome via the snake dike
 Skydiving and bungee jumping to attack a fear of heights
 The Arrowhead 135 in minus 40 degree conditions
 Why you need to get in the arena and start
 Documentary filmmaking as an endurance athlete
 Inspiring the next generation of young athletes

ABOUT THE SHOW

Endurance State of Mind is a podcast for endurance athletes who want more than splits and finish times. Hosted by Anthony Herrington and Zach, we sit down with ultra runners, triathletes, cyclists, coaches, and everyday athletes to talk training, mindset, recovery, race day strategy, and the stories behind the stories. New episode every week.

Follow Endurance State of Mind on Instagram, YouTube, Spotify, and Apple Podcasts. If this episode hit you, please rate, review, and share with a friend who needs to hear it.

Further Together.

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In this episode of Endurance State of Mind, hosts Anthony Herrington and Zach Vogt sit down with Clint Pagan, founder of Full Armor Fitness and the newly-minted first-overall finisher and course record holder at the Night Howler 50 Mile in Hoover, Alabama. Clint's story is a masterclass in how curiosity, community, and a growing obsession with personalized data can turn a casual runner into a competitive ultramarathoner. If you've ever wondered whether VO2 max testing, resting metabolic rate testing, lactate threshold testing, or heart rate zone training are worth your time and money, this conversation lays out exactly what those tools can (and can't) do for your training.

Clint's endurance journey didn't start on a track or a trail. It started with GORUCK challenges and obstacle course races like Spartan Race and Tough Mudder back around 2011, when he and his wife were living in Atlanta. After bonking hard at a Spartan race in 2016, Clint made a simple decision: drop the obstacles and focus purely on running. A corporate wellness perk covering local 5K and 10K entries (Mobile, Alabama's "Corporate Cup" series) gave him the on-ramp, and a top-10 finish at his very first local 5K hooked him for good. From there, Clint describes a progression many endurance athletes will recognize: 5Ks turned into a hunt for a sub-20-minute 5K, which turned into training for the Mobile Marathon, which turned into chasing a Boston Marathon qualifying time.

That road wasn't smooth. Clint ran his first marathon, the Mobile Marathon in 2019, with an undiagnosed stress fracture in his foot, gutting out a 3:22 finish before learning at the finish line just how injured he actually was. COVID derailed his 2020 season, and he lost significant fitness and volume during that stretch. But 2021 became a turning point: Clint got intentional about training, started watching heart rate data on every run, and used the brutal, windswept 2022 Mississippi Gulf Coast Marathon (13-15 mph headwinds for 26.2 miles) to run a 2:58 and lock in his Boston qualifying time, the same race where his path first crossed with Zach's.

The data obsession really took hold once Boston training began. Clint talks candidly about the misinformation loop that trips up self-coached runners, forums insisting you need 60-80 mile weeks to break three hours, when he found success on 40-45 peak miles per week by training smarter, not just harder. That meant learning what heart rate zone training actually was, cutting "gray zone" junk miles, and building the aerobic base that lets you hold pace instead of falling apart at mile 20. He crossed the Boston finish line in 2:59 and, by his own account, felt like he'd barely touched the tank, the moment that pushed him to chase his VO2 max number and eventually launch Full Armor Fitness, his own mobile lab-testing business.

A significant chunk of this conversation is a deep, practical breakdown of the physiological testing tools available to serious endurance athletes today, explained by someone with a real medical background, Clint's degree is in emergency medicine, and he spent years as a paramedic and EMT in both Mississippi and Atlanta before shifting into endurance coaching and testing. Topics covered include:

VO2 Max Testing: What it measures (how efficiently your body takes in and uses oxygen), why it's the gold standard for cardiorespiratory fitness, and why an individualized lab test beats algorithm-based estimates from a five-kilometer race time or a wearable device. Clint explains how his team uses clinical-grade VO2 Master equipment, the same category used to test elite athletes, to map precise heart rate training zones (zone one through five) instead of relying on generic age-based formulas.

Resting Metabolic Rate (RMR) and Basal Metabolic Rate (BMR): The difference between the two, how they're commonly estimated using BMI-based formulas, and why a lab-measured number is far more accurate for athletes managing a caloric deficit or surplus during a training block. Clint breaks down how being off by just a few hundred calories a day can mean gaining two to three pounds despite heavy training volume, and how lean muscle mass directly impacts metabolism over time.

Body Composition Analysis: How InBody-style scanning (roughly a one to two percent margin of deviation) tracks fat mass, water weight, and other biometric markers, pairing with VO2 max and RMR testing to build what Clint calls a full "physiological profile."

Lipid Panel and Biometric Markers: Why tracking cholesterol and glucose matters, particularly for older or masters-level endurance athletes training hard while watching long-term cardiovascular health.

Lactate Threshold Testing: Clint discusses where Full Armor Fitness is headed next, in-session lactate testing (the kind using an ear-prick sample) to pinpoint exactly where an athlete crosses from aerobic to anaerobic effort, sometimes called "threshold two." He and Anthony riff on pairing lactate data with real-time fueling recommendations by heart rate zone, a natural next step for the testing world.

Beyond the science, Clint opens up about the mental and emotional side of endurance sports. He talks about running as a way to manage anger and regulate emotions long before it became a competitive pursuit, and about the powerful pull of the running community, including the story of a faster training partner who paced him to his first sub-20 5K, taking time out of his own race to help a stranger hit a goal.

The conversation also covers Clint's rapid entry into ultra-distance racing. His very first ultramarathon wasn't even a race for himself, it was pacing a friend to a sub-five-hour finish at the Live Oak Ultra in Ocean Springs, Mississippi, used as a long training run ahead of "The Gambler," a last-man-standing style ultra hosted by Running Birds in Birmingham. Clint explains the unique scoring format (two miles every 40 minutes, with poker chips and a cash pot for going "all in" past 100 miles) and describes hitting the full 100-mile, 33-hour distance for the coveted belt buckle. That built directly into his next swing: a first-overall finish and course record at the Night Howler 50 Mile in Hoover, Alabama, run through the night against a field that included a sub-2:32 Boston finisher from the University of Mobile cross country program.

Whether you're a data-curious runner who has never heard of VO2 max testing, a masters athlete optimizing body composition and metabolism, or an ultrarunner curious about last-man-standing race formats, this episode offers a grounded, first-person look at how far intentional, individualized training data can take you, and how much community and grit still matter along the way.

Key takeaways from this episode:

• A corporate wellness perk covering local race entries can be a low-risk on-ramp into running, Clint's "Corporate Cup" experience in Mobile, Alabama shows how a simple incentive can snowball into a full endurance habit.
• Chasing a specific number, like a sub-20 5K or a Boston qualifying time, gives structure to training even before an athlete understands heart rate zones or periodization.
• More miles isn't always the answer. Clint broke three hours at Boston peaking around 40-45 miles per week by prioritizing marathon-pace long runs over unstructured "gray zone" junk mileage.
• Lab-based VO2 max testing, resting metabolic rate testing, and body composition scanning remove the guesswork of algorithm-based estimates pulled from a race time or wearable device.
• Being off by only a few hundred calories a day, relative to a true resting metabolic rate, can undo weeks of training by adding two to three pounds during a heavy volume block.
• Last-man-standing formats like The Gambler reward pacing discipline and mental resilience over raw speed, and can double as training stimulus for a first hundred-mile attempt.
• A background in emergency medicine gives Clint a different lens on overtraining, physiological stress signals, and recovery than a typical running coach.
• Full Armor Fitness is expanding into in-session lactate threshold testing, aiming to connect real-time lactate data with race-day fueling strategy by heart rate zone.

Frequently asked questions this episode answers:

What is VO2 max testing and is it worth doing? Clint explains how clinical-grade VO2 max testing establishes an individualized fitness baseline and heart rate training zones that are more precise than online calculators or wearable-based estimates.

What is resting metabolic rate and why does it matter for runners? RMR testing helps endurance athletes fine-tune caloric intake during training blocks, whether the goal is weight loss, weight maintenance, or fueling for peak performance.

How do you train for a Boston Marathon qualifying time? Clint walks through his own BQ journey, including mileage progression, long run structure, and the shift from unstructured running to intentional, data-informed training.

What is a last-man-standing ultramarathon race format? Using The Gambler as an example, this episode explains how these events are structured and what it takes to reach a 100-mile finish.

Endurance State of Mind is hosted by Anthony Herrington and Zach Vogt, covering trail running, ultramarathons, road marathon training, cycling, triathlon, and the mental side of pushing the body to its limits. Every episode blends personal race stories with practical insight from athletes, coaches, and experts across the endurance community. New episodes drop regularly wherever you listen to podcasts.

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This week it's just us, your two favorite hosts back behind the mics, and we are bringing the energy, the opinions, and a few questionable predictions. Anthony and Zach take you through an action packed episode covering everything that has the endurance world buzzing right now.

We open with a quick story about Zach surviving twelve days without AC in the Mississippi summer (involuntary heat training is still heat training, right?) before diving into the biggest cycling story of the year: the Tour de France 2025.

We break down the entire field, jersey by jersey. The yellow jersey GC race that almost everyone (us included) is calling for Tadej Pogačar to run away with. The white jersey young rider race that might be the most exciting battle of the entire tour, with Paul Seixas, Isaac Del Toro, and Florian Lipowitz all in the mix. The green jersey sprint duel between Jonathan Milan, Jasper Philipsen, and Biniam Girmay. The polka dot KOM jersey hunt with names like Lenny Martinez and Richard Carapaz. And the first stage time trial where Remco Evenepoel is the question mark of the entire race after a long time off.

We also nerd out on Wout van Aert being out for Visma, Visma losing their key director to Red Bull, the UAE Team Emirates monster roster supporting Tadej, the Garmin to Whoop competitor we expect to debut, and the watches on the riders' wrists. Including a brand new Richard Mille that Tadej will reportedly wear during the tour priced at $989,000.

Then we pivot to one of the most exciting Western States 100 races in recent memory. With unprecedented weather conditions, we saw record breaking performances all over the field. Zach gives a deep breakdown of the old guard versus the new guard. Jim Walmsley (the four time champion and reigning course record holder), Killian Journet, the Hoka super team of Adam Peterman, Hayden Hawks, Hans Troyer, Jim Walmsley, and Francesco Puppi all toed the line. We get into Hans Troyer running on 13:35 pace at halfway (the course record is 14:09) and blowing up at mile 78. And then the cinderella story of the entire weekend: Vincent Bouillard, the former Hoka employee turned pro after winning UTMB, who became the first Frenchman ever to win Western States.

We talk about the pros who finished even when their race fell apart. Shout outs to Molly Seidel for completing her first 100 miler in 24 hours after being projected for the podium. We celebrate Zach Miller's iconic full send finish that gave us Steve Prefontaine vibes. And we discuss the wild 87% finish rate this year and the "ultra lean" moments at the line that we never want to experience ourselves.

From there we get personal. The Big Butts 50K is three weeks away. Anthony reports being in the best shape he has been in two years. Zach is feeling behind on heat training. We dig into the Adidas Evo SL shoes that Anthony has converted to and why the lacing makes all the difference.

We close with a real conversation about the Longleaf Trace controversy. Water fountains removed without communication. Bathrooms locked due to vandalism. The homeless and addicted populations using the trace as a safe haven. And the bigger conversation Hattiesburg needs to have about both the trace and the underlying community issues. We share ideas on patrolling staff, communication improvements, and what could come from the public meeting being held this Thursday at 10 AM.

And we wrap with a quick announcement about our trip to the Rocket City Marathon in December.

If you love endurance sports, you are gonna want every minute of this one.

EPISODE TIMESTAMPS

00:00 Welcome back. Hosts only this week.
 01:30 Zach survives twelve days without AC in Mississippi summer
 04:30 Tour de France 2025: yellow jersey predictions
 07:30 Why Tadej Pogačar is the heaviest favorite in years
 10:30 The white jersey race may be the best race of the tour
 13:30 Polka dot jersey predictions and KOM contenders
 14:30 Sportsbook odds and betting markets for the tour
 15:30 Green jersey sprint duel between Milan, Philipsen, and Girmay
 17:30 Wishing Jonas would just send it this year
 19:30 Jasper Philipsen and the reckless sprinter mindset
 22:30 Matthew van der Poel as the Tom Brady of cycling
 23:30 Tadej's $989,000 Richard Mille watch
 26:00 Garmin's rumored Whoop competitor
 27:00 Western States 100 recap begins
 30:00 Hans Troyer goes on a heater and blows up at mile 78
 32:30 Vincent Bouillard, the Hoka employee turned UTMB champion turned Western States winner
 33:30 France's potential summer of sport: Western States, World Cup, Tour de France
 40:30 Shout outs to the pros who finished even when the wheels came off
 41:00 Zach Miller's Steve Prefontaine style finish
 42:00 Ultra lean moments and our biggest fears for Zion
 44:00 Big Butts 50K is three weeks away
 47:00 Anthony switches to the Adidas Evo SL shoes
 50:30 The Longleaf Trace water fountain controversy
 54:00 The bigger conversation about homelessness and addiction in Hattiesburg
 58:00 Ideas for solutions: patrolling staff, board accountability, communication
 01:01:00 Why the trace matters to so many of us
 01:04:00 Rocket City Marathon in December
 01:05:00 Mic drop

TOPICS COVERED

Tour de France 2025 predictions and field analysis
 Yellow, green, white, and polka dot jersey breakdowns
 Sportsbook odds and betting on cycling
 Western States 100 recap and record breaking performances
 Old guard versus new guard in ultra running
 Hans Troyer, Vincent Bouillard, and the Hoka super team
 The Frenchmen having a moment in international sport
 Big Butts 50K race prep in the Mississippi summer heat
 Heat training and pacing strategy for a southern summer 50K
 Adidas Evo SL shoes and how lacing changes everything
 The Longleaf Trace water fountain and bathroom controversy
 Community responsibility and addressing homelessness in Hattiesburg
 Rocket City Marathon December plans

ABOUT THE SHOW

Endurance State of Mind is a podcast for endurance athletes who want more than splits and finish times. Hosted by Anthony Herrington and Zach, we sit down with ultra runners, triathletes, cyclists, coaches, and everyday athletes to talk training, mindset, recovery, race day strategy, and the stories behind the stories. New episode every week.

Follow Endurance State of Mind on Instagram, YouTube, Spotify, and Apple Podcasts. If this episode hit you, please rate, review, and share with a friend who needs to hear it.

Further Together.

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This week on Endurance State of Mind, we sit down with one of the most fearless and inspiring athletes we've ever had on the show. Aimee Warnke. Active duty Army physical therapist with over 14 years of service. Former Ironman World Championship qualifier. Collegiate cyclist at Saint Louis University. And now, one of the most exciting names in the ultra running world.

But Aimee's story doesn't follow a normal endurance athlete arc, and that's exactly why this episode matters.

In 2024, as a brand new ultra runner with only a handful of races under her belt, Aimee showed up at Dinosaur Valley and won the 100K and the 100 miler outright. Not the women's race. The whole field. Two days later, her pre op scans came back with a diagnosis that would have stopped most people in their tracks: chondrosarcoma, a rare malignant bone tumor in her left pelvis. Doctors initially told her she'd need a hemipelvectomy within six months. Translation: cut out a major section of her pelvis. Translation behind the translation: she'd likely never run the way she does again.

She refused the standard answer.

Instead, Aimee, armed with her own clinical background and a refusal to accept the first diagnosis as the only diagnosis, advocated for herself, found a team of trauma surgeons willing to pursue a never before attempted 3D printed pelvic reconstruction using her own iliac crest, and asked for time to race the Dinosaur Valley 100 first. She got it. Today she's in surveillance and watchful waiting status. The tumor hasn't grown. Her mileage has.

In this conversation, we go deep on the entire journey:

How a junior high counselor noticed she was getting picked on for a speech impediment and quietly handed her a borrowed bike, an entry to a sprint triathlon, and the community that would change her life.

Her early triathlon career: Age group Team USA at the 2008 ITU Long Course World Championships in Holland, the 2009 Half Ironman Worlds in Clearwater, the bike crash mid race that broke her clavicle and several ribs, the compound fracture surgery, and how she ended up qualifying for Ironman Canada through a Power Bar raffle she'd entered the same weekend (yes, really).

Four years racing collegiate cycling at Saint Louis University, the team time trials, the breakaways, and what it taught her about being the only woman on the start line at the top level.

The pivot to the Army, fourteen plus years of active duty service, deployments, becoming an Army Baylor DPT, and the side quest into Pacific Northwest backpacking, skiing, and obstacle course racing that quietly built the engine for everything that came next.

Finding trail running through the Hawaii Spartan Ohana, watching the Hurt 100 from the volunteer side and thinking "this is insane, but I'm doing it someday," and eventually returning years later to win that very same race outright.

The Dinosaur Valley 100K and 100 mile sweep, including how Zach (also racing the 100K that day) watched her pull away from the entire field and realized he was witnessing something special.

The diagnosis. The dark month of trying to process a cancer diagnosis alone, before she told anyone, not her parents, not her best friend. The "rage runs" through tears between patient appointments. The phone call from her ortho oncologist that quietly changed everything.

Javelina 100 and the femoral nerve hematoma that almost ended her race at mile 70, and what it took to come back from it.

The freak infection in spring 2025 that left her unable to walk up a flight of stairs, the ER visit, the steroid course, the 3 week reset, and the comeback timeline that took her from zero running to a 100 mile training week in under five weeks, just in time for the Tahoe 200.

Inside her Tahoe 200. Competing for the women's podium, the mid race mistake that cost her hours, the throw up and shake it off low point, the 35 minute nap that saved her race, and the last 18 miles of belting out '1985' with her pacer and finishing on a high note.

What's next: Bigfoot 200 and Moab 240. The second and third legs of the Triple Crown. Her honest assessment of where she left time on the table and what she's coming back for.

Her take on why women are winning ultras outright at the front of the field, and the mental traits she thinks separate the athletes who endure from the ones who keep moving forward.

And the moment that hits the hardest: how she's turned her own diagnosis into a fundraising platform for under insured and uninsured kids battling cancer through CHRISTUS Children's of South Texas. 70% of chondrosarcoma patients are children, and most don't have the medical support Aimee does.

If you've ever stood at a start line feeling like you don't belong, listened to a doctor tell you the only option, or felt the weight of doing something hard alone, this one's for you.

QUOTES FROM THIS EPISODE

"I've allowed myself to be unapologetically extreme in my pursuits and chase the joy and adventure that is trail running." Aimee Warnke

"We've only got one shot at this beautiful, awesome life. Choose the one thing that just lights your soul on fire and go for it." Aimee Warnke

"You're gonna need to figure out a better option. I really love running." Aimee Warnke, on her response to the original surgical recommendation.

"Running was my outlet. 100% running was my outlet through all of that." Aimee Warnke

"I am not alone, and I don't need to be alone." Aimee Warnke

EPISODE TIMESTAMPS

00:00 Welcome and guest introduction
 01:30 Aimee's background: Army PT, 14+ years of active duty
 03:30 How she got into triathlon (junior high counselor, borrowed bike, finding her people)
 06:00 Going from sprint tri to ITU Long Course World Championships
 08:00 The Half Ironman Worlds bike crash, the Power Bar raffle, and Ironman Canada
 10:30 Four years of collegiate cycling at SLU and team time trials
 13:00 Pacific Northwest adventure years and the road back to running
 15:00 Discovering trail running through Hawaii Spartan Ohana
 17:00 From 50K, to Bandera 100K, to Dinosaur Valley 100 miler
 20:30 The mindset shift that turned her into a competitive ultra runner
 23:30 Training at 2 AM every morning
 27:00 The chondrosarcoma diagnosis, and the month she carried it alone
 33:00 Rage runs as therapy
 35:00 Pushing back on the standard treatment plan
 37:00 The 3D printed pelvic reconstruction plan
 40:00 Dinosaur Valley: from high of her life to lowest low in 48 hours
 41:00 The phone call that changed the timeline
 45:00 The fundraiser for CHRISTUS Children's of South Texas
 48:00 Hurt 100: returning to where it all started, and winning
 53:00 The freak infection that took her down before Tahoe 200
 57:00 Tahoe 200: the race, the mistakes, the comeback
 01:09:00 What's next: Bigfoot 200 and Moab 240
 01:12:00 Why women are winning ultras outright
 01:15:00 Advice for first time ultra runners
 01:18:00 Closing the loop: unapologetically extreme

TOPICS COVERED

Ultra running training while working full time in the military
 Mental tools for managing a cancer diagnosis as an endurance athlete
 Self advocacy in medicine when the standard answer isn't the right answer
 The 200 mile distance: what works, what breaks, and what no one tells you
 Pacing strategy and aid station discipline at 200 miles
 Coming back from injury or illness on a compressed timeline
 Strength training as a foundation for ultra performance
 Why community at the start line matters more than gear
 The Triple Crown of 200s: Tahoe, Bigfoot, Moab
 Women in ultra running and the shift toward overall wins
 Fundraising through racing, making the miles matter beyond yourself

SUPPORT AIMEE'S FUNDRAISER. RUNNING WITH PURPOSE FOR CHRISTUS CHILDREN'S

Aimee races for more than herself. Through Running with Purpose for CHRISTUS Children's, every dollar raised goes directly to under insured and uninsured children battling cancer at CHRISTUS Children's of South Texas. 70% of chondrosarcoma patients are children, and the medical support Aimee has access to through the military is not the norm for most families facing this fight. Donations are pledged per mile (and per podium finish). Even $1 per mile makes a difference.

Donate here: https://cbo.io/app/public/bidapp/rwp

RESOURCES AND RACES MENTIONED

Hurt 100 (Honolulu, HI)
 Dinosaur Valley 100 (Glen Rose, TX)
 Bandera 100K (Bandera, TX)
 Javelina Jundred (Fountain Hills, AZ)
 Tahoe 200 (Olympic Valley, CA)
 Bigfoot 200 (Mt. St. Helens, WA)
 Moab 240 (Moab, UT)
 Coca Dona 250 (Sedona and Flagstaff, AZ)
 Running with Purpose for CHRISTUS Children's. Fundraiser link: https://cbo.io/app/public/bidapp/rwp
CHRISTUS Children's of South Texas
Iron Fit San Antonio
Heather Jackson's Coca Dona 250 documentary
Rachel Entrekin's Substack on training for 200 mile races

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What if the most important muscle you train for your next race has nothing to do with your legs? On this episode of Endurance State of Mind, hosts Anthony Herrington and Zach sit down with one of the most accomplished sports psychologists in the country, Dr. Ashley Sampson, professor in the Department of Kinesiology and Health Promotion at the University of Kentucky, for a conversation that might just change the way you think about running, racing, and everything in between.

Dr. Sampson's journey into endurance sports is one that a lot of us can relate to. She grew up as a multi-sport kid in Louisiana, competed as a track and field and rowing athlete in college, and then stumbled into distance running almost by accident, deciding the night before a half marathon that she was going to run it. Fast forward through graduate school, a move to California, a deep dive into trail running, and a jump straight into a 50 miler in the Marin Headlands outside San Francisco, and you've got someone who doesn't just study the psychology of endurance athletes from the outside. She lives it from the inside. These days she balances her role as a professor and private practice sports psychology consultant with competitive equestrian riding, trail running, yoga, and somehow still managing to prioritize sleep like a professional. She is the real deal.

But this episode isn't just about Dr. Sampson's impressive background. It's about you, the runner, the cyclist, the triathlete, the ultra runner who wants to know how to get more out of their mind on race day and in training. And Dr. Sampson brings the science and the lived experience to back up every single thing she shares.

The conversation kicks off with one of the most refreshing reframes we've ever heard on this podcast, the idea of shifting your mindset not from negative to positive, but from negative to productive. If you've ever had a coach or a well meaning friend tell you to just think positive when things are going sideways on a long run, you know how hollow that advice can feel. Dr. Sampson explains why that approach doesn't work neurologically or psychologically, and what to replace it with instead. The goal isn't to lie to yourself and pretend everything is great when your quads are on fire at mile 40. The goal is to ask a better question, what can I get out of this right now, and let that question pull you forward.

From there, the episode dives into the science of mental toughness itself. What is it, really? Is it something you're born with, or something you can build? Dr. Sampson challenges the either or framing entirely and makes a compelling case that mental toughness is both a natural tendency and a trainable skill, and that the environment you put yourself in has a massive influence on which direction it develops. Whether you grew up being pushed to your limits or you're building that resilience for the first time at 35 through ultramarathon training, there is a path forward. And Dr. Sampson lays out exactly what that path looks like.

One of the most practical segments of this episode is Dr. Sampson's concept of race day fire drills. Just like we practiced fire drills as kids, walking calmly out of the building, knowing exactly where to go and what to do before any emergency ever happened, she encourages athletes to think through every possible thing that could go wrong before they ever toe the start line. Shoes getting sucked off in the mud at mile 30? Plan for it. Running out of gels? Plan for it. Weather turning on you? Plan for it. The goal isn't pessimism. It's control. When you've already thought through the chaos, you don't panic when it arrives. You execute. And that sense of control, Dr. Sampson explains, is one of the most powerful predictors of endurance performance there is.

We also spend real time on pre race anxiety, something Anthony opens up about from his own experience going from nervous wreck at his first triathlon to a much more grounded competitor over time. Dr. Sampson's take on anxiety is nuanced and refreshingly honest. Anxiety before a big race isn't a problem to be solved. It's an uninvited guest at the party. You planned the party, you've got your nutrition, your rest, your race strategy, your confidence, and then anxiety shows up anyway, uninvited, the way it always does. The key isn't to kick it out. The key is to acknowledge it, let it stand in the corner, and then go back to focusing on your race plan. Anxiety doesn't ruin the party. Only letting it take over the DJ booth does.

Then there's the mindfulness conversation, and if you've ever written off mindfulness as too soft or too woo woo for serious athletes, Dr. Sampson is going to give you a lot to think about. She talks about her journey from pure sports psychology consultant to integrating deep mindfulness and yoga principles into her work with athletes, and explains why it changed everything for her as a practitioner. The core insight is simple but profound: if an athlete isn't self aware and present, they don't even know a problem is happening yet, let alone which mental tool to pull out to fix it. Mindfulness isn't about being calm. It's about noticing without judging, observing what's happening in your body and mind without immediately attaching an emotional reaction to it, and then making an intelligent adjustment. Attune and adjust. Attune and adjust. It sounds simple. On mile 70 of a hundred mile race, it's everything.

Zach brings up something that resonates deeply in this episode, the way that visualization creates real neural pathways in the brain even without physical experience. Dr. Sampson confirms it: the science absolutely supports the idea that your brain doesn't fully distinguish between a vividly imagined experience and a real one. This is why a well prepared athlete can show up to a race distance they've never run before and still feel, not just hope, but genuinely feel, like they've been there. And it's why Dr. Sampson recommends that athletes spend intentional, focused time not just visualizing success, but visualizing the hard parts. Visualize the pain cave. Visualize the nutrition going wrong. Visualize the weather turning. And then visualize exactly how you're going to handle it. Because when it happens, and it will happen, you'll already know what to do.

The episode also tackles athletic identity in a way that hits close to home for anyone who has ever been sidelined by injury or who watched their competitive career come to an end and felt completely lost on the other side of it. Dr. Sampson explains the psychological concept of athletic identity and why athletes who define themselves entirely through their sport are at much higher risk for depression and crisis when that sport is taken away, whether by injury, age, or the end of a competitive career. Her practical answer? Build a multifaceted identity now, before you need it. Be a runner and a parent and a business owner and a cook and a reader. Have other things. Not because running isn't important, but because your worth as a human being cannot hinge entirely on your next finish time.

And yes, we talk about Strava. In what might be the hottest take of the episode, Dr. Sampson, who literally consulted for Strava on a campaign about why people run, admits that she doesn't use Strava and has some real concerns about what it does to athlete mental health. The comparison trap, the pressure to post good numbers on recovery days, the dopamine loop of counting kudos, it's the same psychology that makes regular social media harmful, just wearing running shoes. It's a conversation that's going to make some of you uncomfortable and all of you more thoughtful about how you engage with training platforms and the external validation they offer.

This episode is for the runner who has stood at the start line of something terrifying and wondered if they had what it takes. It's for the athlete coming back from injury who is trying to figure out who they are when they can't train. It's for the competitor who wants to stop white knuckling through the hard miles and start actually moving through them with intelligence and intention. And it's for anyone who has ever wondered what the best athletes in the world are doing differently, not with their legs, but with the six inches between their ears.

Dr. Ashley Sampson is the kind of guest we'd bring back every quarter, and after you finish this episode, you'll understand why. Her research is rigorous, her delivery is warm and conversational, her personal experience as an endurance athlete gives her credibility that pure academics can't match, and her ability to translate complex psychological concepts into tools you can actually use on your next long run is genuinely rare.

Subscribe to Endurance State of Mind wherever you get your podcasts. Leave us a review if this episode moved you. Share it with a training partner who needs to hear it. And go out there and train the most powerful piece of equipment you own.

Your mind is ready. The question is, are you going to train it?

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Anthony and Zach recap their first ever live podcast recorded on location at Southern Prohibition's Big Run 5K in Hattiesburg, Mississippi. They break down race day performances including Anthony's 5K PR, reflect on what made the live format so electric, and share what's coming next for the show including bringing on a dedicated videographer named Jeremiah who was weaving through the race course all night capturing content, and their plans to do more live events moving forward. The energy at a live race is just different and after this one, there is no going back. Then stick around for four back to back guest interviews recorded straight from the event. Rhonda Hayden of Kinda Gritty joins to officially announce Endurance State of Mind's Podcast Alley partnership with the Rocket City Marathon, giving listeners a preview of what the 50th anniversary race weekend will look like for runners and fans alike. She breaks down the full podcast alley concept, the six podcasters coming in from across the southeast, and her vision for transforming both the pre race and post race experience for every runner who toes the line in Huntsville this December. Southern Prohibition owner Ben Green talks about catching the running bug at 39, what the mental side of running has meant to him in recent years, building one of the most welcoming run communities in South Mississippi through Wednesday run clubs and Fleet Feet pub runs, his Big Butts 25K goals, his obsession with finding rare sneakers nobody else has on the rack, and what's on tap literally at one of Hattiesburg's best kept secrets. Ultra endurance athlete and certified Sherpa Chris Lott stops by fresh off the 5K to talk about watching Unbound Gravel, heat training for Big Butts, the exploding ultra running scene across Mississippi, and how races like Mississippi 50 are selling out faster every single year. He also reflects on the influence of storytelling and podcasting on the growth of the sport and what it means to have a community of people pushing each other to do hard things. And finally in his third appearance on the pod, Brian Murphy makes it official. He's signing up for the Zion 100, a hundred mile race in Utah next April alongside Zach, Anthony, and what's shaping up to be the largest group of Mississippians ever assembled in the state of Utah at one time. Brian talks through the mental process of leaping from a 50 mile to a 100 mile, why the training is not as different as you might think, what it means to do a destination race with your people, and how a 5K bib number with the digits 1 0 0 on it was the final sign he needed to stop overthinking and just say yes.

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