In this episode of the Social-Engineer podcast, Chris Hadnagy and Maxie Reynolds are joined by Dr. Ida Ngambeki, an Assistant Professor of Computer and Information Technology at Purdue University. Listen in as they discuss importance of empathy and the best ways to teach social engineering.  April 12, 2021

00:00 – Intro 

Join Social-Engineering on Slack

Clutch 

The Innocent Lives Foundation    

03:25 – Introduction to Dr. Ida Ngambeki 

04:20 – How Ida got into social engineering 

08:45 – Teaching the next generation of social engineers 

11:30 – Teaching the distinct aspects of social engineering 

17:05 – The difference between a pentester and a malicious actor 

19:01 – The importance of bias and assumptions 

20:36 – Ida’s unconventional path to social engineering expertise 

24:42 – The importance of empathy in security education 

27:50 – The three aspects of empathy 

30:04 – Diversity in the information security industry 

34:22 – Chris getting held at gunpoint 

39:50 – The problem with fear-based pretexts 

42:32 - Ida’s industry mentors 

Donna Riley   

Demitra Evangelou   

Melisa Dark   

Alejandrah Magana  

William Gratiano   

Mark Rogers 

45:14 – Ida's book recommendations 

Terry Pratchett 

The Secret Lives of Baba Segi's Wives 

Neil Gaiman 

The Tenth Muse 

Code Girls 

47:59 – Ida's contact info 

cybersecurelab.com 

Purdue’s Website 

49:23 – Maxie's book 

The Art of Attack: Attacker Mindset for Security Professionals 

51:02 - Outro 

Maxie on Twitter 

Chris on Twitter 

Social-Engineer on Twitter