In this episode of the Social-Engineer podcast, Chris Hadnagy and Maxie Reynolds are joined by Dr. Ida Ngambeki, an Assistant Professor of Computer and Information Technology at Purdue University. Listen in as they discuss importance of empathy and the best ways to teach social engineering. April 12, 2021

00:00 – Intro

Join Social-Engineering on Slack

Clutch

The Innocent Lives Foundation

03:25 – Introduction to Dr. Ida Ngambeki

04:20 – How Ida got into social engineering

08:45 – Teaching the next generation of social engineers

11:30 – Teaching the distinct aspects of social engineering

17:05 – The difference between a pentester and a malicious actor

19:01 – The importance of bias and assumptions

20:36 – Ida's unconventional path to social engineering expertise

24:42 – The importance of empathy in security education

27:50 – The three aspects of empathy

30:04 – Diversity in the information security industry

34:22 – Chris getting held at gunpoint

39:50 – The problem with fear-based pretexts

42:32 - Ida's industry mentors

Donna Riley

Demitra Evangelou

Melisa Dark

Alejandrah Magana

William Gratiano

Mark Rogers

45:14 – Ida's book recommendations

Terry Pratchett

The Secret Lives of Baba Segi's Wives

Neil Gaiman

The Tenth Muse

Code Girls

47:59 – Ida's contact info

cybersecurelab.com

Purdue's Website

49:23 – Maxie's book

The Art of Attack: Attacker Mindset for Security Professionals

51:02 - Outro

Maxie on Twitter

Chris on Twitter

Social-Engineer on Twitter