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EP 15 : Essence of Spiritual Responsibility with David Gruder - Trailer
Hi, I am here with Dr. David Gruder. He is the founder & president of Integrity Culture Systems, and the Director of the newly emerging Center for Integral Leadership at the California Institute for Human Science. An 11-award-winning psychologist specializing in Leader Effectiveness, Enterprise Success, and Culture Architecture. Hear it live on Monday at 6 Am for the full episode in your favorite podcast app.
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Episode Highlights
David [00:01:53] You know, Stephen Covey, as you're very well aware of, who wrote Seven Habits of highly effective people, among other things, one of his principles that people regularly cite is the principle called Begin With the end in mind.
David [00:02:08] I think he almost got it right, but not quite. Begin with the best possible end in mind.
Ari [00:04:12] Yeah. You know, I've said that quite a lot. You know, when I hear people talk about the Constitution and how amazing it is, and I'll say it would be great if we actually tried to live by the ideals that we claim. Right. This week, we hear a lot of claims of what this country is at its finest possibility. But I've never seen. The attempt for it to be lived that way and understood that way.
David [00:06:45] Right. Well, what you're speaking to right now, and I'm loving that you're bringing this up, Ari, is is again, you know, it's kind of like a variation on that on that UNICEF New Year's card that my family got. The greater peace will only come with this after the smaller peace we make with each other.
Ari [00:10:34] And I think a lot of people mistaken in what integrity is to something outside of themselves, not something within themselves. Yes. In action that you take verses away, that you feel inside of you. And so I'd like you to talk a little bit more about integrity itself and how that relates to a person taking on actions outside of themselves before they do the work inside.
David [00:11:10] Right. Which, of course, never works well, if we take actions outside of ourselves before we've done the inner work, then, you know, if if you're if we're taking action from a foundation of crap, we're gonna get crap. Very simple.
Ari [00:21:40] Also, you know, I mean, we really have have a slippery slope when it comes to legislating morality, legislating vices and telling people what they can and can't do with their personal space. However, when you talk about companies, as you were saying earlier, and legislating what companies can do to people's space, that might be a little bit different.
David [00:25:50] We have to remove the blocks to the awareness of love. Love's presence, presence. We have to learn how to be authentic. We have to change ourselves. We have to remove the traumas that stand between us and being authentic. So I think there is a fundamental universal. Morality, and it's built into our wiring. And when we can agree on what we have, yes, about then we can put our differences into a context that allow our differences to enrich UST rather than divide us.
David [00:34:16] You've probably heard it, too, about the little boy who's out in the woods. And one day he sees this. This butterfly trying to make its way out of the cocoon. And he is standing there feeling what feels to him like deep compassion. All he wants to do is to rescue, save this this butterfly from the pain of of having to break out of its cocoon so it can fly away. And so he breaks the cocoon open and the butterfly falls dead to the ground. He picks up the butterfly. He runs home to to his mother and he's crying. And he said he's saying what? What happened? I tried to help this butterfly and it died. What? What a horrible person am I? What did I do wrong?
Ari [00:37:11] And give us that path forward so that we can create a new tomorrow, so that we can activate our vision for a better world. And so that we can be these impactful Integris humans that we were designed to be.
Ari [00:37:30] What would that path be?
Resources and Links
- https://drgruder.com
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- https://CreateANewTomorrow.com
- https://www.facebook.com/arigronich
Full Transcription
Ari&Davidpart2.mp3
Ari [00:00:02] Has it occurred to you that the systems we live by are not designed to get results? We pay for procedures instead of outcomes, focusing on emergencies rather than preventing disease and living a healthy lifestyle.
Ari [00:00:14] For over 25 years, I've taken care of Olympians, Paralympians, A-list actors and Fortune 1000 companies. If I did not get results, they did not get results. I realized that while powerful people who controlled the system want to keep the status quo. If I were to educate the masses, you would demand change. So I'm taking the gloves off and going after the systems as they are. Join me on my mission to create a new tomorrow as a chat with industry experts. Elite athletes thought leaders and government officials about how we activate our vision for a better world. We may agree and we may disagree. But I'm not backing down.
Ari [00:00:51] I'm Ari Gronich. And this is. Create a new tomorrow podcast.
Ari [00:01:03] Welcome back to part two of this interview, if you missed the part one. Head back to the previous episode before you listen to this one. Now, we'll dive right into the conversation from the moment that we left off. Thanks again and welcome back.
Ari [00:01:18] As an operational planner, along with all your other accolades.
Ari [00:01:24] Right. If we were going to operationally plan this, which is basically taking it from the result that we want and working our way down to the beginning.
Ari [00:01:36] What would be the first steps on that operational plan to shift the system as it is and start that development into a lack of insane, insanity?
David [00:01:50] Right.
David [00:01:53] You know, Stephen Covey, as you're very well aware of, who wrote Seven Habits of highly effective people, among other things, one of his principles that people regularly cite is the principle called Begin With the end in mind.
David [00:02:08] I think he almost got it right, but not quite. Begin with the best possible end in mind.
David [00:02:18] If we don't start with a utopian vision, if we don't start with a vision of what we want to strive toward, the ideal future that we're not going to have tomorrow. But we have a true north that we're that we're pointing toward. If we don't have that, then we don't have a country. This country, the United States, was birthed based in large part on and in a its origins, a utopian vision. And then they got to crafting the Constitution and made all kinds of compromises and disenfranchized certain people and allowed slavery to continue and all kinds of nasty, dark, shadowy stuff. But it started off as a vision. A vision of a society. That is functioning at the intersection of personal freedom and the common good, where all are considered to be equal in terms of their right to have opportunity to make of it as they will and where. The government was mandated to function and legislate at the intersection of what preserves individual freedom and what promotes the common good. That was an audacious idea that people that people would actually be in a society whose government was mandated to be a servant to its citizens, not to itself, not to the common good. I'm sorry. Not to special interests, not to itself. That's that was a radical notion back then. It was a utopian notion back then. What I would say to you today is all of those utopian notions, great concept, still never been tried.
Ari [00:04:12] Yeah. You know, I've said that quite a lot. You know, when I hear people talk about the Constitution and how amazing it is, and I'll say it would be great if we actually tried to live by the ideals that we claim. Right. This week, we hear a lot of claims of what this country is at its finest possibility. But I've never seen. The attempt for it to be lived that way and understood that way.
Ari [00:04:50] And so there's always been such a dichotomy of divergence between ideal and reality. And I want to help bring the ideal into reality. So what do we need to do in order to create that?
David [00:05:08] The master planning, again, starts with envisioning the best possible end, getting on the same page about. About what that looks like in principle. And then reverse engineering coming backwards from that best possible end to the question of where are we now in relationship to that and how do we deliberately construct a bridge that takes us from where we are now to the best possible hand over time with patience and persistence and a dedication to not abandoning the vision.
David [00:05:49] This is what. Great companies do.
David [00:05:52] It's what great societies are theoretically capable of doing. But not if we're fighting against each other over whose ideology is right and wrong.
Ari [00:06:04] That's that's a good point, because my my question to you based on that, is everybody has their own vision of what utopia is. Right. They have their own belief system about it. And most of the belief system is created by the traumas that they've experienced in their life and the experiences I say Traumas, because the traumas in the experience are really what shape our belief system and what we think of as utopia in our heads may not necessarily be the answer for our hearts and our, you know, and our humanity.
Ari [00:06:42] So how do we bridge that gap first?
David [00:06:45] Right. Well, what you're speaking to right now, and I'm loving that you're bringing this up, Ari, is is again, you know, it's kind of like a variation on that on that UNICEF New Year's card that my family got. The greater peace will only come with this after the smaller peace we make with each other.
David [00:07:06] And what I would add is and within ourselves, we human beings tend to be have an inner community of self that is at war with itself. And the war comes from our traumas. The war comes from the undigested life experiences that we've had, the life experiences we've been through that we didn't know, and we still haven't figured out how to harvest great deep spiritual gifts from. So those pieces of unfinished business remain the boss of us. And if we go back to Maslow, when someone is in survival mode, they don't see utopia. They don't see what are what's possible, because all they're settling for is is surviving. It's like The Ballad of Jack and Diane and John Cougar Mellencamp. And the line from that song is Life goes on long after the thrill of living is gone. Are you kidding me? Are you kidding me? But that's that's the majority of society. They are. They are believing that they just have to muddle through in life. They long ago gave up their ideals, their their vision. And it's because of what you said, Ari. They have been taught to tolerate undigested life experiences inside themselves and to believe that the best they can do is hope to live with their scars rather than being shown ways that they can transform through their scars into an elevated way of living.
Ari [00:08:53] That was those very beautiful way of putting it. And, you know, to any listener out there who's thinking, I don't know what to do next. I know I'm listening to you and I'm understanding the words that you're saying and I just don't know what to do next. Where would where would you. You know, suggest somebody start with that.
David [00:09:23] Well, I'll say something that might sound self-serving, but it really is my answer to the question. I have an online course called the Integrity Guide to having it all how to put your genius where your dreams are and that course. Teaches people not simply a mindset, but very specific, step by step by step sequence skills, skills that are developed in a specific order because one set of skills builds on the next, builds on the next. And it the entire focus of that course is to help people outgrow their survival plan and upgrade their trival plan and their ability to live there. Thriveal plan. That's the resource that I would recommend.
Ari [00:10:17] Awesome. So I have I have.
Ari [00:10:21] I was I'm glad that you brought that up, because while I don't mind you being a little self-serving, I was being self-serving in having you mention a word, which is integrity.
Ari [00:10:34] And I think a lot of people mistaken in what integrity is to something outside of themselves, not something within themselves. Yes. In action that you take verses away, that you feel inside of you. And so I'd like you to talk a little bit more about integrity itself and how that relates to a person taking on actions outside of themselves before they do the work inside.
David [00:11:10] Right. Which, of course, never works well, if we take actions outside of ourselves before we've done the inner work, then, you know, if if you're if we're taking action from a foundation of crap, we're gonna get crap. Very simple.
David [00:11:25] Now about integrity. Integrity is one of those words that unfortunately falls in a category I referred to as true, but not useful because tons of people. Truly an authentically not not as lip service, but tons of people truly believe in the idea of integrity. But when I ask them to tell me what integrity is and what skills are necessary, they they don't know how to answer. And so forget for the moment about ill intended people who don't believe in integrity. What I'm talking about right now are people who authentically believe in integrity, just like most people, and authentically believe in collaboration. But they've never been trained in the skills that enable them to walk the talk. So what is integrity?
David [00:12:14] Integrity revolves around the three core drives that I was referring to earlier, our drive to be who we truly are, authenticity, our drive to bond with others connection and our drive to influence the world around us. Impact, authenticity our authenticity. Core drive is about being in integrity with our selves, with our own, the promptings that come from our deepest self, our deepest nature, our deepest callings and and connection. The connection core drive is about relationship integrity, doing what we say we're going to do and holding ourselves accountable when when what we do is not aligned with our intentions and then impact our impact or drive corresponds with collective or societal integrity being an integrity with the groups that we are a part of.
David [00:13:14] So integrity is not one dimensional, it's three dimensional. And as someone who was primarily motivated for the largest part of my life up until about 20 years ago, by contributing to societal integrity, I sacrificed myself integrity. I killed off my first marriage. Well, that was cocreator. The killing off was cocreator. But my part in killing off my first marriage was because I became so self neglectful that my heart shut down. And even though I was a dutiful husband and I did all the right things and I didn't do them as a martyr or feeling like I was sacrificing myself, I became so depleted that the thing that my first wife most rightly wanted from me, which was my heart, stopped being available. So I was out of integrity with myself and in my primary relationship, all while I was pursuing all of my social improvement initiatives. And that is is what I call One-dimensional integrity. It was a light bulb moment when I realized that I understood a fair amount of relationship about relationship integrity, even though I was falling to the wayside with some of that. And I understood a lot about societal integrity, but I didn't count integrity with myself as a form of integrity. There are other people who are at it at a different point with that, where they're all about themselves and they're and they're all about being an integrity with themselves. And if you don't like who I am and what I do, that's your problem. Well, that's one dimensional integrity. That's not three dimensional integrity. Integrity is three dimensional.
Ari [00:15:07] That's you know, that's a really good point because. I've had similar experiences, and I think that everybody can relate to this is sacrificing yourself.
Ari [00:15:21] For others or sacrificing yourself of sacrificing others for yourself, right?
Ari [00:15:29] I think that that we can relate to this as a regular thing, and I don't think that it's necessarily.
Ari [00:15:38] Common to have only one of these things right? Depending on the relationship, I'm sacrificing myself here for the better good here or I'm sacrificing the better. Good for this here. You know, sacrificing in the middle.
Ari [00:15:54] Right.
Ari [00:15:54] We're always having a balancing act between sacrificing our integrity and keeping it because we are such a busy society. Because we've had to create our value by what we do.
Ari [00:16:10] And this kind of goes back to the original part of our conversation is, is the sacrifice for work and money worth the lack of integrity towards ourselves? And if not, how can we as a society lift each other up to that place of integrity vs. you know, I, I let's just say I didn't vote.
Ari [00:16:40] Somebody doesn't vote. Right? Why? Because I don't feel like my vote counts, as you were saying at the beginning of this conversation. Well, that help. I sing my integrity as a contributing impact person both to myself and to the society at large.
Ari [00:16:59] Right. So how do we shift this perspective from nothing. I do really matters anyway.
David [00:17:09] This is what you're what you're pointing toward is a is people's belief in a law of scarcity that in order to have this, I have to sacrifice that. And when we allow that either or thinking to affect our happiness formula, we're basically screwed. So if I think that I have to sacrifice my integrity in order to have financial well-being. Or that I have to sacrifice financial well-being in order to keep my integrity. I am engaging in psycho spiritual insanity. I'm engaging in either or thinking when what is what our design is is both and thinking. Our design is to live at the intersection of our authenticity, our connection with others and our positive impact in the world. It's not one being sacrificed for the other two or two being sacrificed for one of them. It's all three in synergy, in collaboration with each other. We have collectively forgotten that vision of being human and because of that we are operating as a society. Again, there's some lovely individuals who have, you know, woak awakened from the spell. But as a society, we are still under the spell of a profoundly and dysfunctionally and harmfully sic happiness formula. It is not a real happiness formula. It's a dystopian formula. And we don't know it collectively, and it's time that people started calling it like it is. I am not a fan of political correctness. I am a fan. Huge fan of treating people with respect, compassion and regard. And when I am civil with people, when I am authentically respectful to them, toward them and compassionate toward them, I don't have to worry. One split second about about political correctness. Political correctness as an attempt to legislate morality and morality cannot be legislated. It can only be developed in us because we've healed those traumas that you you're referring to earlier so that we are living our authentic self rather than our wounded self.
Ari [00:19:42] Yeah, you know, I agree. I don't think that. I'm not a fan of political correctness. I'm not I'm not a fan. So much of correctness at all. You know, I really like if somebody were to point out my the experience of my life is very rare moments that I've actually been what somebody else might consider to be correct.
Ari [00:20:11] And I would imagine that that's probably the same thing behind closed doors that anybody and everybody else that's listening.
Ari [00:20:22] Would be able to relate to. Is that correctness is on?
Ari [00:20:29] It's unlegislated all because nobody has the same morality. Not a single person has every single thing in alignment with ever with another person's morality. And so how can we possibly legislate that? You know, we've tried because of religion. So religion originally was the first attempt at legislating morality, in my opinion.
Ari [00:20:54] All right. Let's see what we can do to take a set of a community that's tribal. Right.
Ari [00:21:03] And create a civil society so that we can all live together in somewhat peace and harmony. Right. And then and then let's create some rules around that. So don't covet you know, don't steal. Don't murder. Right. These are all commandments. But really what they are is legislating a level of morality because, you know, don't murder unless, of course, you're being attacked.
Ari [00:21:30] Right. Don't don't covet somebodies, you know, goods unless it's driving you to be better so that you can afford those goods.
Ari [00:21:40] Also, you know, I mean, we really have have a slippery slope when it comes to legislating morality, legislating vices and telling people what they can and can't do with their personal space. However, when you talk about companies, as you were saying earlier, and legislating what companies can do to people's space, that might be a little bit different.
Ari [00:22:10] And we've kind of gone backwards on this and we stop legislating corporate structures in favor of deregulation. Right.
Ari [00:22:23] And started to regulate people's behavior as it relates to things even, you know, like in the olden days, in the 20s of of alcohol prohibition.
Ari [00:22:37] Also, we prohibit the things that we think as a society are morally questionable.
Ari [00:22:45] And then we allow a company to poison our food, poison our water, poisoned our air in in attempts for profit for money.
Ari [00:22:55] So, you know, when we look at this as a society at large and we go, is this working optimally?
Ari [00:23:05] Is this moving our world and our society forward? I say no.
Ari [00:23:13] Caveat, maybe a little.
Ari [00:23:15] In some places and not in others. But really the whole point of this conversation is to awaken people into some other points of view that may not be politically correct or agree with your point of view.
Ari [00:23:32] So.
Ari [00:23:33] How do we agree to disagree?
Ari [00:23:39] And still be authentically ourselves without having to worry about the offense of political correctness,.
David [00:23:50] The way I think we start to do that is by establishing first.
David [00:23:55] What we agree to agree upon. So what I mean by that, for example, is that. And I have I have a different perspective about the Ten Commandments. I view the Ten Commandments not as commandments, but as promises.
David [00:24:18] That when you are in alignment with love, you can't help but behave those ways, not because you should, but because behaving in any way other than those ways would just be out of integrity for you wouldn't feel good. It wouldn't feel right. I don't agree that there is no universal morality.
David [00:24:40] I am firmly convinced that there is. But it's not a Theal a theology. It's a universal morality that is built into our fundamental human nature, related to our three core drives. That that when we are. Truly, who we are designed to be when we are authentic, when we are bonded, when we're connected, when we are loving. And when we are devoted to having positive impact in the world. Expression of our three core drives is our fundamental morality and is integrity.
David [00:25:26] In other words, what I'm saying is we are designed by our wiring to live within to in integrity. And it is our trauma structure. It's our unfinished business. It's our societal programing that is dysfunctional societal programing that seduces us out of our fundamental human nature. We have to learn how to love.
David [00:25:50] We have to remove the blocks to the awareness of love. Love's presence, presence. We have to learn how to be authentic. We have to change ourselves. We have to remove the traumas that stand between us and being authentic. So I think there is a fundamental universal. Morality, and it's built into our wiring. And when we can agree on what we have, yes, about then we can put our differences into a context that allow our differences to enrich UST rather than divide us.
Ari [00:26:25] That is beautifully stated, and I like having people who disagree with me because that allows me to learn something new.
Ari [00:26:35] And, you know, it's why I it's why when I'm looking on Facebook, for instance, all start searching for things that go completely against my point of view at I don't fall into that echo chamber that we or bubble thought bubble that that we started talking about.
Ari [00:26:56] And I have the ability to then say, OK, what is this? And, you know, I've never had the thought. I think I got it, this friend, this person, because of what they're posting. Right. I've never had that as something that I've thought, huh? No, they don't. They don't agree with me. I think I'm going to defend them.
Ari [00:27:18] Right. Yeah.
Ari [00:27:20] Such a foreign kind of a concept in my world. So how come it's such a common.
Ari [00:27:28] Fundamental thing happening in the world, because it just seems like it seems ridiculous to me.
David [00:27:37] Well, at the macro level, I think it's happening in the world today because. Because we have. A species that species being humanity. That is in a collective state of terror and the collective state of terror that I believe humanity is in right now. Is that all of the old structures? Are crumbling because they're being outgrown. The things that the structures that were helpful in propelling us forward in fits and starts and an imperfectly for the last couple of thousand years. Are not the structures that are going to propel us forward the next couple of thousand years? And when people fall into a trap that I think we're programed to fall into, which is to identify who we are through what we believe. Then if what we believe starts to crumble, we stop thinking we can know who we are. So we desperately cling to old belief systems in order to hold onto some version of identity. And that's a very false version of identity. You know, you're talking about being a human doing. Right. And when when in a society teaches us to be human doings, when first and foremost we are human beings. Right. And so this is this is, I think, at the heart of of the problem. Ah ah. Ways of understanding and our ways of functioning are crumbling. It's scaring the crap out of most people. And so they are becoming more and more tightly bonded, tightly and tightly woven to their belief system because they are afraid they won't know who they are. If those systems crumble.
Ari [00:29:51] That's a that's an interesting way of looking at it. You know, as I was thinking about what you're saying. The image in my head was that of meat inside of a pressure cooker. All right. You put the meat in the pressure cooker and it's hard.
Ari [00:30:10] You put it in.
Ari [00:30:12] Massive amounts of pressure and heat.
[00:30:16] Make it soft vs., say, a diamond that's been created over years of intense pressure and heat.
Ari [00:30:27] Right. Creates this beautiful thing called the diamond.
Ari [00:30:32] And I believe that in some ways the weaknesses of our society were caused because our culture was like you were saying earlier, our parents wanted us to be have it better than they had it.
Ari [00:30:50] And so they attempted at every point to remove the pressure cooker.
Ari [00:30:59] And the way I look at it, it begins with C sections at birth because they have found that the people who have C sections that are born from a C section. And this isn't this isn't to say to somebody who's had one, you're bad for having one.
Ari [00:31:20] It's just to say that in general that the first struggle of a human being is the struggle for life coming out that small tube.
Ari [00:31:33] And then coming out into the world and we have removed that first struggle and some people have postulated that that has itself.
Ari [00:31:45] Become part of the weaknesses of the people who have been born that way. I know that when when Gabriel was born, we had to have a C-section because of a fibroid.
Ari [00:31:58] And we did what we called a natural C-section, which was smaller hole. And we had him, like, squeeze out more. So it would be mimicking more experience. Right.
Ari [00:32:13] But the more we coddle our society, the more we remove the pressure cooker. And, you know, the lesson of the lobster is is the same a lobster.
Ari [00:32:27] Outgrows his shell by making the shelf so tight around the body that it has to be removed.
Ari [00:32:37] And we have artificially removed the shell and this stunted the growth. Right. What do you think of any of what I just said?
David [00:32:50] I think it's spot on. I think that part of why we have so many immune system problems in people today is because we stopped, you know, when I was a kid.
David [00:33:03] We didn't have the term free range children because all of us were free range children. So there wasn't a term for it. It's what kids did. They they ran around and had a great time together and got in trouble sometimes and fell and and scraped their knee or broke their leg or whatever it was, parents who coddled their children.
David [00:33:26] On the other hand, these were the children who who grew up with entitlement disorder. These are the children who grew up thinking that the world owed them something because they didn't grow up with self responsibility. They didn't grow up with with experiencing growth coming from pain. Not to say that we should be seeking out pain all the time, because I don't think we're supposed to seek out pain all the time. I think we're supposed to have be familiar enough with pain so we don't run from it. And so it can wisen us. It can help us become wiser rather than more defeated. So, you know, when we have when we have a society that is antiseptic, that is trying to protect people, we fall into that old teaching story.
David [00:34:16] You've probably heard it, too, about the little boy who's out in the woods. And one day he sees this. This butterfly trying to make its way out of the cocoon. And he is standing there feeling what feels to him like deep compassion. All he wants to do is to rescue, save this this butterfly from the pain of of having to break out of its cocoon so it can fly away. And so he breaks the cocoon open and the butterfly falls dead to the ground. He picks up the butterfly. He runs home to to his mother and he's crying. And he said he's saying what? What happened? I tried to help this butterfly and it died. What? What a horrible person am I? What did I do wrong? And of course, the mom's response in this teaching story, the healthy response was, honey.
David [00:35:12] Your compassion was wonderful.
David [00:35:16] And you tried to save this butterfly from an experience it needed to have in order to be able to fly away, and you simply didn't know that. And this in turn, reminds me of one of my favorite sayings from a 20th century theologian by the name of Reinhold Niebuhr, which is that our mission?
David [00:35:39] Is if we really care about elevating people and about elevating the world. Our mission is to both comfort the afflicted and to afflict the comfortable. Not one or the other.
David [00:35:56] Both. And this is what I was referring to in the beginning in our first segment about at the end of the segment about. About the two forms of love. If we have nurturance without challenge, nurturing love, without challenging love, we get narcissistic, entitled people. If we have challenging without nurturance, challenging love without nurturance, we get shamed.
David [00:36:22] And disempowered people or tyrants. It's got to be both and.
David [00:36:30] But we don't live in a both and society anymore. We live in an either or society. And that is the fundamental sickness of our society today is vastly immature either or thinking that we are programed into having. And that we better wake the hell up out of. If we want to evolve into a next golden age.
Ari [00:36:52] That's that's a very profound thing. And, you know, I'm going to ask you a question I haven't asked anybody, which is.
Ari [00:37:01] If I was to ask you a question that would sum up. The sum total of everything we've talked about. Right.
Ari [00:37:11] And give us that path forward so that we can create a new tomorrow, so that we can activate our vision for a better world. And so that we can be these impactful Integris humans that we were designed to be.
Ari [00:37:30] What would that path be?
David [00:37:34] It would be the path toward what you've heard me say. It's the path towards self sovereignty that serves us all. It's the intersection of self responsibility in the context of living in a in a society where we are responsible for ourselves and we are contributing to the common good. Not one over the other. Self sovereignty that serves us all.
Ari [00:38:04] That is that's beautiful and I so appreciate you being here and I think we've had plenty of.
Ari [00:38:12] Tools that somebody can take away from this conversation and start applying, if you were to give just one other tool for the how, so that somebody can take that conceptual knowledge and wisdom that we just spent an hour and a half disseminating. Right. One simple tool.
Ari [00:38:38] To activate that in them. What would that will be.
David [00:38:44] That the toll would be a an imagery, a piece of imagery. That's about shifting our mindset. And the imagery is of a jigsaw puzzle. So imagine a jigsaw puzzle where all the pieces are out on the table and they're all upside down. And we're in a group of people and we're all busy turning all the pieces over so that we see what's what's on each piece.
David [00:39:11] And then, sure enough, some of us cluster around finding pieces that are the corners of the puzzle and others of us cluster around finding pieces that are the edges of the puzzle. And others of us start making discoveries about parts of inside the puzzle that are elements of the picture that the puzzle is creating, like a window or a door or flower or whatever.
David [00:39:40] And imagine that one other thing, which is that unlike a typical jigsaw puzzle, we're on the cover of the box. You see what the puzzle is supposed to look like when it's done.
David [00:39:53] There is no box, so we don't know what the puzzle is supposed to look like when it's done. And we have two choices. We can either start to polarize and accuse the cornerists of being horrific people because all they care about is the corners or the edge ists or the flowerists or the doorists or the window ests.
David [00:40:17] Rather than saying. Isn't it wonderful that you're so focused on the corners that you're identifying those on behalf of all of us? And the edges and the flowers and the and the doors and the windows so that we can co discover togather what the picture is meant to look like when it's all put together. That vision of synergy, of collaboration, if we can keep that in mind and in our hearts and in our spirits when we are interacting with other people who have different perspectives from ours.
David [00:40:55] The magic is just going to start happening. That's the last tool I'll leave you with.
Ari [00:41:01] That is.
Ari [00:41:02] That's a beautiful image and I so appreciate you being here. I appreciate this conversation and the gifts that you've just given the audience. I hope that they will walk away from this conversation, having pulled at least 20 or 30, not just one, but 20 or 30 good gems that they can then take with them and and really, really start to create their new tomorrow and activate their vision for a better world, because this is my way of impacting the world.
Ari [00:41:41] Is to bring these kinds of conversations out into full view of the public so that we can have deep, considerate conversations about where we want to be, who we want to be and what we want to create in this world.
Ari [00:41:58] And I really appreciate you being here. What's again, you know, I'd like you to actually say the Web site, both for you as well as for that particular integrity piece and how people can get a hold of you if they'd like to learn more from you.
David [00:42:17] Sure. So, first of all, thank you for your mission of service. Because what you're doing through this podcast has the potential to have widespread, important, significant impact, positive impact in the world. So my main Web site is DrGruder.com. That's drgruder.com. And if you want to be in touch with me, you'll find on drgruder.com a blue button that says contact and click on the blue button and you'll have different ways of contacting me. The Integrity Guide to having it all course that's available. You can find that by going to drgruder.com/academy. That'll take you to the Doctor Gruder Academy page. And it's the first course that's listed. dr.gruder.com/academy.
Ari [00:43:17] Excellent. Thank you so much. And thank you audience for sticking with us, listening to this episode.
Ari [00:43:23] And I wish you a really, really blessed day.
Ari [00:43:29] And I wish you the kahunas to challenge yourself.
Ari [00:43:38] To become the person that, you know, you are already inside and to shift what you might be doing now to create something more based on results performance and create a better world with us. Collaborate with us so that we together can bring in and usher in this new society that is focused on creating a world we all can live in, in harmony with nature.
Ari [00:44:11] And I just I bless you all. Hope you have a healthy day. This has been another episode of Create a New Tomorrow with your host, Ari Gronich. And thank you so much, David Gruder, for being here. We really appreciate all of your wisdom and experience.
David [00:44:27] Thank you. Thank you for having me.
Ari [00:44:30] Thank you for listening to this podcast. I appreciate all you do to create a new tomorrow for yourself and those around you. If you'd like to take this information further and are interested in joining a community of like minded people who are all passionate about activating their vision for a better world, go to the Web site, create a new tomorrow. Com and find out how you can be part of making a bigger difference. I have a gift for you. Just for checking it out.
Ari [00:44:55] And look forward to seeing you take the leap. And joining our private paid mastermind community. Until then, see you on the next episode.
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Episode Highlights
David [00:01:53] You know, Stephen Covey, as you're very well aware of, who wrote Seven Habits of highly effective people, among other things, one of his principles that people regularly cite is the principle called Begin With the end in mind.
David [00:02:08] I think he almost got it right, but not quite. Begin with the best possible end in mind.
Ari [00:04:12] Yeah. You know, I've said that quite a lot. You know, when I hear people talk about the Constitution and how amazing it is, and I'll say it would be great if we actually tried to live by the ideals that we claim. Right. This week, we hear a lot of claims of what this country is at its finest possibility. But I've never seen. The attempt for it to be lived that way and understood that way.
David [00:06:45] Right. Well, what you're speaking to right now, and I'm loving that you're bringing this up, Ari, is is again, you know, it's kind of like a variation on that on that UNICEF New Year's card that my family got. The greater peace will only come with this after the smaller peace we make with each other.
Ari [00:10:34] And I think a lot of people mistaken in what integrity is to something outside of themselves, not something within themselves. Yes. In action that you take verses away, that you feel inside of you. And so I'd like you to talk a little bit more about integrity itself and how that relates to a person taking on actions outside of themselves before they do the work inside.
David [00:11:10] Right. Which, of course, never works well, if we take actions outside of ourselves before we've done the inner work, then, you know, if if you're if we're taking action from a foundation of crap, we're gonna get crap. Very simple.
Ari [00:21:40] Also, you know, I mean, we really have have a slippery slope when it comes to legislating morality, legislating vices and telling people what they can and can't do with their personal space. However, when you talk about companies, as you were saying earlier, and legislating what companies can do to people's space, that might be a little bit different.
David [00:25:50] We have to remove the blocks to the awareness of love. Love's presence, presence. We have to learn how to be authentic. We have to change ourselves. We have to remove the traumas that stand between us and being authentic. So I think there is a fundamental universal. Morality, and it's built into our wiring. And when we can agree on what we have, yes, about then we can put our differences into a context that allow our differences to enrich UST rather than divide us.
David [00:34:16] You've probably heard it, too, about the little boy who's out in the woods. And one day he sees this. This butterfly trying to make its way out of the cocoon. And he is standing there feeling what feels to him like deep compassion. All he wants to do is to rescue, save this this butterfly from the pain of of having to break out of its cocoon so it can fly away. And so he breaks the cocoon open and the butterfly falls dead to the ground. He picks up the butterfly. He runs home to to his mother and he's crying. And he said he's saying what? What happened? I tried to help this butterfly and it died. What? What a horrible person am I? What did I do wrong?
Ari [00:37:11] And give us that path forward so that we can create a new tomorrow, so that we can activate our vision for a better world. And so that we can be these impactful Integris humans that we were designed to be.
Ari [00:37:30] What would that path be?
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Full Transcription
Ari&Davidpart2.mp3
Ari [00:00:02] Has it occurred to you that the systems we live by are not designed to get results? We pay for procedures instead of outcomes, focusing on emergencies rather than preventing disease and living a healthy lifestyle.
Ari [00:00:14] For over 25 years, I've taken care of Olympians, Paralympians, A-list actors and Fortune 1000 companies. If I did not get results, they did not get results. I realized that while powerful people who controlled the system want to keep the status quo. If I were to educate the masses, you would demand change. So I'm taking the gloves off and going after the systems as they are. Join me on my mission to create a new tomorrow as a chat with industry experts. Elite athletes thought leaders and government officials about how we activate our vision for a better world. We may agree and we may disagree. But I'm not backing down.
Ari [00:00:51] I'm Ari Gronich. And this is. Create a new tomorrow podcast.
Ari [00:01:03] Welcome back to part two of this interview, if you missed the part one. Head back to the previous episode before you listen to this one. Now, we'll dive right into the conversation from the moment that we left off. Thanks again and welcome back.
Ari [00:01:18] As an operational planner, along with all your other accolades.
Ari [00:01:24] Right. If we were going to operationally plan this, which is basically taking it from the result that we want and working our way down to the beginning.
Ari [00:01:36] What would be the first steps on that operational plan to shift the system as it is and start that development into a lack of insane, insanity?
David [00:01:50] Right.
David [00:01:53] You know, Stephen Covey, as you're very well aware of, who wrote Seven Habits of highly effective people, among other things, one of his principles that people regularly cite is the principle called Begin With the end in mind.
David [00:02:08] I think he almost got it right, but not quite. Begin with the best possible end in mind.
David [00:02:18] If we don't start with a utopian vision, if we don't start with a vision of what we want to strive toward, the ideal future that we're not going to have tomorrow. But we have a true north that we're that we're pointing toward. If we don't have that, then we don't have a country. This country, the United States, was birthed based in large part on and in a its origins, a utopian vision. And then they got to crafting the Constitution and made all kinds of compromises and disenfranchized certain people and allowed slavery to continue and all kinds of nasty, dark, shadowy stuff. But it started off as a vision. A vision of a society. That is functioning at the intersection of personal freedom and the common good, where all are considered to be equal in terms of their right to have opportunity to make of it as they will and where. The government was mandated to function and legislate at the intersection of what preserves individual freedom and what promotes the common good. That was an audacious idea that people that people would actually be in a society whose government was mandated to be a servant to its citizens, not to itself, not to the common good. I'm sorry. Not to special interests, not to itself. That's that was a radical notion back then. It was a utopian notion back then. What I would say to you today is all of those utopian notions, great concept, still never been tried.
Ari [00:04:12] Yeah. You know, I've said that quite a lot. You know, when I hear people talk about the Constitution and how amazing it is, and I'll say it would be great if we actually tried to live by the ideals that we claim. Right. This week, we hear a lot of claims of what this country is at its finest possibility. But I've never seen. The attempt for it to be lived that way and understood that way.
Ari [00:04:50] And so there's always been such a dichotomy of divergence between ideal and reality. And I want to help bring the ideal into reality. So what do we need to do in order to create that?
David [00:05:08] The master planning, again, starts with envisioning the best possible end, getting on the same page about. About what that looks like in principle. And then reverse engineering coming backwards from that best possible end to the question of where are we now in relationship to that and how do we deliberately construct a bridge that takes us from where we are now to the best possible hand over time with patience and persistence and a dedication to not abandoning the vision.
David [00:05:49] This is what. Great companies do.
David [00:05:52] It's what great societies are theoretically capable of doing. But not if we're fighting against each other over whose ideology is right and wrong.
Ari [00:06:04] That's that's a good point, because my my question to you based on that, is everybody has their own vision of what utopia is. Right. They have their own belief system about it. And most of the belief system is created by the traumas that they've experienced in their life and the experiences I say Traumas, because the traumas in the experience are really what shape our belief system and what we think of as utopia in our heads may not necessarily be the answer for our hearts and our, you know, and our humanity.
Ari [00:06:42] So how do we bridge that gap first?
David [00:06:45] Right. Well, what you're speaking to right now, and I'm loving that you're bringing this up, Ari, is is again, you know, it's kind of like a variation on that on that UNICEF New Year's card that my family got. The greater peace will only come with this after the smaller peace we make with each other.
David [00:07:06] And what I would add is and within ourselves, we human beings tend to be have an inner community of self that is at war with itself. And the war comes from our traumas. The war comes from the undigested life experiences that we've had, the life experiences we've been through that we didn't know, and we still haven't figured out how to harvest great deep spiritual gifts from. So those pieces of unfinished business remain the boss of us. And if we go back to Maslow, when someone is in survival mode, they don't see utopia. They don't see what are what's possible, because all they're settling for is is surviving. It's like The Ballad of Jack and Diane and John Cougar Mellencamp. And the line from that song is Life goes on long after the thrill of living is gone. Are you kidding me? Are you kidding me? But that's that's the majority of society. They are. They are believing that they just have to muddle through in life. They long ago gave up their ideals, their their vision. And it's because of what you said, Ari. They have been taught to tolerate undigested life experiences inside themselves and to believe that the best they can do is hope to live with their scars rather than being shown ways that they can transform through their scars into an elevated way of living.
Ari [00:08:53] That was those very beautiful way of putting it. And, you know, to any listener out there who's thinking, I don't know what to do next. I know I'm listening to you and I'm understanding the words that you're saying and I just don't know what to do next. Where would where would you. You know, suggest somebody start with that.
David [00:09:23] Well, I'll say something that might sound self-serving, but it really is my answer to the question. I have an online course called the Integrity Guide to having it all how to put your genius where your dreams are and that course. Teaches people not simply a mindset, but very specific, step by step by step sequence skills, skills that are developed in a specific order because one set of skills builds on the next, builds on the next. And it the entire focus of that course is to help people outgrow their survival plan and upgrade their trival plan and their ability to live there. Thriveal plan. That's the resource that I would recommend.
Ari [00:10:17] Awesome. So I have I have.
Ari [00:10:21] I was I'm glad that you brought that up, because while I don't mind you being a little self-serving, I was being self-serving in having you mention a word, which is integrity.
Ari [00:10:34] And I think a lot of people mistaken in what integrity is to something outside of themselves, not something within themselves. Yes. In action that you take verses away, that you feel inside of you. And so I'd like you to talk a little bit more about integrity itself and how that relates to a person taking on actions outside of themselves before they do the work inside.
David [00:11:10] Right. Which, of course, never works well, if we take actions outside of ourselves before we've done the inner work, then, you know, if if you're if we're taking action from a foundation of crap, we're gonna get crap. Very simple.
David [00:11:25] Now about integrity. Integrity is one of those words that unfortunately falls in a category I referred to as true, but not useful because tons of people. Truly an authentically not not as lip service, but tons of people truly believe in the idea of integrity. But when I ask them to tell me what integrity is and what skills are necessary, they they don't know how to answer. And so forget for the moment about ill intended people who don't believe in integrity. What I'm talking about right now are people who authentically believe in integrity, just like most people, and authentically believe in collaboration. But they've never been trained in the skills that enable them to walk the talk. So what is integrity?
David [00:12:14] Integrity revolves around the three core drives that I was referring to earlier, our drive to be who we truly are, authenticity, our drive to bond with others connection and our drive to influence the world around us. Impact, authenticity our authenticity. Core drive is about being in integrity with our selves, with our own, the promptings that come from our deepest self, our deepest nature, our deepest callings and and connection. The connection core drive is about relationship integrity, doing what we say we're going to do and holding ourselves accountable when when what we do is not aligned with our intentions and then impact our impact or drive corresponds with collective or societal integrity being an integrity with the groups that we are a part of.
David [00:13:14] So integrity is not one dimensional, it's three dimensional. And as someone who was primarily motivated for the largest part of my life up until about 20 years ago, by contributing to societal integrity, I sacrificed myself integrity. I killed off my first marriage. Well, that was cocreator. The killing off was cocreator. But my part in killing off my first marriage was because I became so self neglectful that my heart shut down. And even though I was a dutiful husband and I did all the right things and I didn't do them as a martyr or feeling like I was sacrificing myself, I became so depleted that the thing that my first wife most rightly wanted from me, which was my heart, stopped being available. So I was out of integrity with myself and in my primary relationship, all while I was pursuing all of my social improvement initiatives. And that is is what I call One-dimensional integrity. It was a light bulb moment when I realized that I understood a fair amount of relationship about relationship integrity, even though I was falling to the wayside with some of that. And I understood a lot about societal integrity, but I didn't count integrity with myself as a form of integrity. There are other people who are at it at a different point with that, where they're all about themselves and they're and they're all about being an integrity with themselves. And if you don't like who I am and what I do, that's your problem. Well, that's one dimensional integrity. That's not three dimensional integrity. Integrity is three dimensional.
Ari [00:15:07] That's you know, that's a really good point because. I've had similar experiences, and I think that everybody can relate to this is sacrificing yourself.
Ari [00:15:21] For others or sacrificing yourself of sacrificing others for yourself, right?
Ari [00:15:29] I think that that we can relate to this as a regular thing, and I don't think that it's necessarily.
Ari [00:15:38] Common to have only one of these things right? Depending on the relationship, I'm sacrificing myself here for the better good here or I'm sacrificing the better. Good for this here. You know, sacrificing in the middle.
Ari [00:15:54] Right.
Ari [00:15:54] We're always having a balancing act between sacrificing our integrity and keeping it because we are such a busy society. Because we've had to create our value by what we do.
Ari [00:16:10] And this kind of goes back to the original part of our conversation is, is the sacrifice for work and money worth the lack of integrity towards ourselves? And if not, how can we as a society lift each other up to that place of integrity vs. you know, I, I let's just say I didn't vote.
Ari [00:16:40] Somebody doesn't vote. Right? Why? Because I don't feel like my vote counts, as you were saying at the beginning of this conversation. Well, that help. I sing my integrity as a contributing impact person both to myself and to the society at large.
Ari [00:16:59] Right. So how do we shift this perspective from nothing. I do really matters anyway.
David [00:17:09] This is what you're what you're pointing toward is a is people's belief in a law of scarcity that in order to have this, I have to sacrifice that. And when we allow that either or thinking to affect our happiness formula, we're basically screwed. So if I think that I have to sacrifice my integrity in order to have financial well-being. Or that I have to sacrifice financial well-being in order to keep my integrity. I am engaging in psycho spiritual insanity. I'm engaging in either or thinking when what is what our design is is both and thinking. Our design is to live at the intersection of our authenticity, our connection with others and our positive impact in the world. It's not one being sacrificed for the other two or two being sacrificed for one of them. It's all three in synergy, in collaboration with each other. We have collectively forgotten that vision of being human and because of that we are operating as a society. Again, there's some lovely individuals who have, you know, woak awakened from the spell. But as a society, we are still under the spell of a profoundly and dysfunctionally and harmfully sic happiness formula. It is not a real happiness formula. It's a dystopian formula. And we don't know it collectively, and it's time that people started calling it like it is. I am not a fan of political correctness. I am a fan. Huge fan of treating people with respect, compassion and regard. And when I am civil with people, when I am authentically respectful to them, toward them and compassionate toward them, I don't have to worry. One split second about about political correctness. Political correctness as an attempt to legislate morality and morality cannot be legislated. It can only be developed in us because we've healed those traumas that you you're referring to earlier so that we are living our authentic self rather than our wounded self.
Ari [00:19:42] Yeah, you know, I agree. I don't think that. I'm not a fan of political correctness. I'm not I'm not a fan. So much of correctness at all. You know, I really like if somebody were to point out my the experience of my life is very rare moments that I've actually been what somebody else might consider to be correct.
Ari [00:20:11] And I would imagine that that's probably the same thing behind closed doors that anybody and everybody else that's listening.
Ari [00:20:22] Would be able to relate to. Is that correctness is on?
Ari [00:20:29] It's unlegislated all because nobody has the same morality. Not a single person has every single thing in alignment with ever with another person's morality. And so how can we possibly legislate that? You know, we've tried because of religion. So religion originally was the first attempt at legislating morality, in my opinion.
Ari [00:20:54] All right. Let's see what we can do to take a set of a community that's tribal. Right.
Ari [00:21:03] And create a civil society so that we can all live together in somewhat peace and harmony. Right. And then and then let's create some rules around that. So don't covet you know, don't steal. Don't murder. Right. These are all commandments. But really what they are is legislating a level of morality because, you know, don't murder unless, of course, you're being attacked.
Ari [00:21:30] Right. Don't don't covet somebodies, you know, goods unless it's driving you to be better so that you can afford those goods.
Ari [00:21:40] Also, you know, I mean, we really have have a slippery slope when it comes to legislating morality, legislating vices and telling people what they can and can't do with their personal space. However, when you talk about companies, as you were saying earlier, and legislating what companies can do to people's space, that might be a little bit different.
Ari [00:22:10] And we've kind of gone backwards on this and we stop legislating corporate structures in favor of deregulation. Right.
Ari [00:22:23] And started to regulate people's behavior as it relates to things even, you know, like in the olden days, in the 20s of of alcohol prohibition.
Ari [00:22:37] Also, we prohibit the things that we think as a society are morally questionable.
Ari [00:22:45] And then we allow a company to poison our food, poison our water, poisoned our air in in attempts for profit for money.
Ari [00:22:55] So, you know, when we look at this as a society at large and we go, is this working optimally?
Ari [00:23:05] Is this moving our world and our society forward? I say no.
Ari [00:23:13] Caveat, maybe a little.
Ari [00:23:15] In some places and not in others. But really the whole point of this conversation is to awaken people into some other points of view that may not be politically correct or agree with your point of view.
Ari [00:23:32] So.
Ari [00:23:33] How do we agree to disagree?
Ari [00:23:39] And still be authentically ourselves without having to worry about the offense of political correctness,.
David [00:23:50] The way I think we start to do that is by establishing first.
David [00:23:55] What we agree to agree upon. So what I mean by that, for example, is that. And I have I have a different perspective about the Ten Commandments. I view the Ten Commandments not as commandments, but as promises.
David [00:24:18] That when you are in alignment with love, you can't help but behave those ways, not because you should, but because behaving in any way other than those ways would just be out of integrity for you wouldn't feel good. It wouldn't feel right. I don't agree that there is no universal morality.
David [00:24:40] I am firmly convinced that there is. But it's not a Theal a theology. It's a universal morality that is built into our fundamental human nature, related to our three core drives. That that when we are. Truly, who we are designed to be when we are authentic, when we are bonded, when we're connected, when we are loving. And when we are devoted to having positive impact in the world. Expression of our three core drives is our fundamental morality and is integrity.
David [00:25:26] In other words, what I'm saying is we are designed by our wiring to live within to in integrity. And it is our trauma structure. It's our unfinished business. It's our societal programing that is dysfunctional societal programing that seduces us out of our fundamental human nature. We have to learn how to love.
David [00:25:50] We have to remove the blocks to the awareness of love. Love's presence, presence. We have to learn how to be authentic. We have to change ourselves. We have to remove the traumas that stand between us and being authentic. So I think there is a fundamental universal. Morality, and it's built into our wiring. And when we can agree on what we have, yes, about then we can put our differences into a context that allow our differences to enrich UST rather than divide us.
Ari [00:26:25] That is beautifully stated, and I like having people who disagree with me because that allows me to learn something new.
Ari [00:26:35] And, you know, it's why I it's why when I'm looking on Facebook, for instance, all start searching for things that go completely against my point of view at I don't fall into that echo chamber that we or bubble thought bubble that that we started talking about.
Ari [00:26:56] And I have the ability to then say, OK, what is this? And, you know, I've never had the thought. I think I got it, this friend, this person, because of what they're posting. Right. I've never had that as something that I've thought, huh? No, they don't. They don't agree with me. I think I'm going to defend them.
Ari [00:27:18] Right. Yeah.
Ari [00:27:20] Such a foreign kind of a concept in my world. So how come it's such a common.
Ari [00:27:28] Fundamental thing happening in the world, because it just seems like it seems ridiculous to me.
David [00:27:37] Well, at the macro level, I think it's happening in the world today because. Because we have. A species that species being humanity. That is in a collective state of terror and the collective state of terror that I believe humanity is in right now. Is that all of the old structures? Are crumbling because they're being outgrown. The things that the structures that were helpful in propelling us forward in fits and starts and an imperfectly for the last couple of thousand years. Are not the structures that are going to propel us forward the next couple of thousand years? And when people fall into a trap that I think we're programed to fall into, which is to identify who we are through what we believe. Then if what we believe starts to crumble, we stop thinking we can know who we are. So we desperately cling to old belief systems in order to hold onto some version of identity. And that's a very false version of identity. You know, you're talking about being a human doing. Right. And when when in a society teaches us to be human doings, when first and foremost we are human beings. Right. And so this is this is, I think, at the heart of of the problem. Ah ah. Ways of understanding and our ways of functioning are crumbling. It's scaring the crap out of most people. And so they are becoming more and more tightly bonded, tightly and tightly woven to their belief system because they are afraid they won't know who they are. If those systems crumble.
Ari [00:29:51] That's a that's an interesting way of looking at it. You know, as I was thinking about what you're saying. The image in my head was that of meat inside of a pressure cooker. All right. You put the meat in the pressure cooker and it's hard.
Ari [00:30:10] You put it in.
Ari [00:30:12] Massive amounts of pressure and heat.
[00:30:16] Make it soft vs., say, a diamond that's been created over years of intense pressure and heat.
Ari [00:30:27] Right. Creates this beautiful thing called the diamond.
Ari [00:30:32] And I believe that in some ways the weaknesses of our society were caused because our culture was like you were saying earlier, our parents wanted us to be have it better than they had it.
Ari [00:30:50] And so they attempted at every point to remove the pressure cooker.
Ari [00:30:59] And the way I look at it, it begins with C sections at birth because they have found that the people who have C sections that are born from a C section. And this isn't this isn't to say to somebody who's had one, you're bad for having one.
Ari [00:31:20] It's just to say that in general that the first struggle of a human being is the struggle for life coming out that small tube.
Ari [00:31:33] And then coming out into the world and we have removed that first struggle and some people have postulated that that has itself.
Ari [00:31:45] Become part of the weaknesses of the people who have been born that way. I know that when when Gabriel was born, we had to have a C-section because of a fibroid.
Ari [00:31:58] And we did what we called a natural C-section, which was smaller hole. And we had him, like, squeeze out more. So it would be mimicking more experience. Right.
Ari [00:32:13] But the more we coddle our society, the more we remove the pressure cooker. And, you know, the lesson of the lobster is is the same a lobster.
Ari [00:32:27] Outgrows his shell by making the shelf so tight around the body that it has to be removed.
Ari [00:32:37] And we have artificially removed the shell and this stunted the growth. Right. What do you think of any of what I just said?
David [00:32:50] I think it's spot on. I think that part of why we have so many immune system problems in people today is because we stopped, you know, when I was a kid.
David [00:33:03] We didn't have the term free range children because all of us were free range children. So there wasn't a term for it. It's what kids did. They they ran around and had a great time together and got in trouble sometimes and fell and and scraped their knee or broke their leg or whatever it was, parents who coddled their children.
David [00:33:26] On the other hand, these were the children who who grew up with entitlement disorder. These are the children who grew up thinking that the world owed them something because they didn't grow up with self responsibility. They didn't grow up with with experiencing growth coming from pain. Not to say that we should be seeking out pain all the time, because I don't think we're supposed to seek out pain all the time. I think we're supposed to have be familiar enough with pain so we don't run from it. And so it can wisen us. It can help us become wiser rather than more defeated. So, you know, when we have when we have a society that is antiseptic, that is trying to protect people, we fall into that old teaching story.
David [00:34:16] You've probably heard it, too, about the little boy who's out in the woods. And one day he sees this. This butterfly trying to make its way out of the cocoon. And he is standing there feeling what feels to him like deep compassion. All he wants to do is to rescue, save this this butterfly from the pain of of having to break out of its cocoon so it can fly away. And so he breaks the cocoon open and the butterfly falls dead to the ground. He picks up the butterfly. He runs home to to his mother and he's crying. And he said he's saying what? What happened? I tried to help this butterfly and it died. What? What a horrible person am I? What did I do wrong? And of course, the mom's response in this teaching story, the healthy response was, honey.
David [00:35:12] Your compassion was wonderful.
David [00:35:16] And you tried to save this butterfly from an experience it needed to have in order to be able to fly away, and you simply didn't know that. And this in turn, reminds me of one of my favorite sayings from a 20th century theologian by the name of Reinhold Niebuhr, which is that our mission?
David [00:35:39] Is if we really care about elevating people and about elevating the world. Our mission is to both comfort the afflicted and to afflict the comfortable. Not one or the other.
David [00:35:56] Both. And this is what I was referring to in the beginning in our first segment about at the end of the segment about. About the two forms of love. If we have nurturance without challenge, nurturing love, without challenging love, we get narcissistic, entitled people. If we have challenging without nurturance, challenging love without nurturance, we get shamed.
David [00:36:22] And disempowered people or tyrants. It's got to be both and.
David [00:36:30] But we don't live in a both and society anymore. We live in an either or society. And that is the fundamental sickness of our society today is vastly immature either or thinking that we are programed into having. And that we better wake the hell up out of. If we want to evolve into a next golden age.
Ari [00:36:52] That's that's a very profound thing. And, you know, I'm going to ask you a question I haven't asked anybody, which is.
Ari [00:37:01] If I was to ask you a question that would sum up. The sum total of everything we've talked about. Right.
Ari [00:37:11] And give us that path forward so that we can create a new tomorrow, so that we can activate our vision for a better world. And so that we can be these impactful Integris humans that we were designed to be.
Ari [00:37:30] What would that path be?
David [00:37:34] It would be the path toward what you've heard me say. It's the path towards self sovereignty that serves us all. It's the intersection of self responsibility in the context of living in a in a society where we are responsible for ourselves and we are contributing to the common good. Not one over the other. Self sovereignty that serves us all.
Ari [00:38:04] That is that's beautiful and I so appreciate you being here and I think we've had plenty of.
Ari [00:38:12] Tools that somebody can take away from this conversation and start applying, if you were to give just one other tool for the how, so that somebody can take that conceptual knowledge and wisdom that we just spent an hour and a half disseminating. Right. One simple tool.
Ari [00:38:38] To activate that in them. What would that will be.
David [00:38:44] That the toll would be a an imagery, a piece of imagery. That's about shifting our mindset. And the imagery is of a jigsaw puzzle. So imagine a jigsaw puzzle where all the pieces are out on the table and they're all upside down. And we're in a group of people and we're all busy turning all the pieces over so that we see what's what's on each piece.
David [00:39:11] And then, sure enough, some of us cluster around finding pieces that are the corners of the puzzle and others of us cluster around finding pieces that are the edges of the puzzle. And others of us start making discoveries about parts of inside the puzzle that are elements of the picture that the puzzle is creating, like a window or a door or flower or whatever.
David [00:39:40] And imagine that one other thing, which is that unlike a typical jigsaw puzzle, we're on the cover of the box. You see what the puzzle is supposed to look like when it's done.
David [00:39:53] There is no box, so we don't know what the puzzle is supposed to look like when it's done. And we have two choices. We can either start to polarize and accuse the cornerists of being horrific people because all they care about is the corners or the edge ists or the flowerists or the doorists or the window ests.
David [00:40:17] Rather than saying. Isn't it wonderful that you're so focused on the corners that you're identifying those on behalf of all of us? And the edges and the flowers and the and the doors and the windows so that we can co discover togather what the picture is meant to look like when it's all put together. That vision of synergy, of collaboration, if we can keep that in mind and in our hearts and in our spirits when we are interacting with other people who have different perspectives from ours.
David [00:40:55] The magic is just going to start happening. That's the last tool I'll leave you with.
Ari [00:41:01] That is.
Ari [00:41:02] That's a beautiful image and I so appreciate you being here. I appreciate this conversation and the gifts that you've just given the audience. I hope that they will walk away from this conversation, having pulled at least 20 or 30, not just one, but 20 or 30 good gems that they can then take with them and and really, really start to create their new tomorrow and activate their vision for a better world, because this is my way of impacting the world.
Ari [00:41:41] Is to bring these kinds of conversations out into full view of the public so that we can have deep, considerate conversations about where we want to be, who we want to be and what we want to create in this world.
Ari [00:41:58] And I really appreciate you being here. What's again, you know, I'd like you to actually say the Web site, both for you as well as for that particular integrity piece and how people can get a hold of you if they'd like to learn more from you.
David [00:42:17] Sure. So, first of all, thank you for your mission of service. Because what you're doing through this podcast has the potential to have widespread, important, significant impact, positive impact in the world. So my main Web site is DrGruder.com. That's drgruder.com. And if you want to be in touch with me, you'll find on drgruder.com a blue button that says contact and click on the blue button and you'll have different ways of contacting me. The Integrity Guide to having it all course that's available. You can find that by going to drgruder.com/academy. That'll take you to the Doctor Gruder Academy page. And it's the first course that's listed. dr.gruder.com/academy.
Ari [00:43:17] Excellent. Thank you so much. And thank you audience for sticking with us, listening to this episode.
Ari [00:43:23] And I wish you a really, really blessed day.
Ari [00:43:29] And I wish you the kahunas to challenge yourself.
Ari [00:43:38] To become the person that, you know, you are already inside and to shift what you might be doing now to create something more based on results performance and create a better world with us. Collaborate with us so that we together can bring in and usher in this new society that is focused on creating a world we all can live in, in harmony with nature.
Ari [00:44:11] And I just I bless you all. Hope you have a healthy day. This has been another episode of Create a New Tomorrow with your host, Ari Gronich. And thank you so much, David Gruder, for being here. We really appreciate all of your wisdom and experience.
David [00:44:27] Thank you. Thank you for having me.
Ari [00:44:30] Thank you for listening to this podcast. I appreciate all you do to create a new tomorrow for yourself and those around you. If you'd like to take this information further and are interested in joining a community of like minded people who are all passionate about activating their vision for a better world, go to the Web site, create a new tomorrow. Com and find out how you can be part of making a bigger difference. I have a gift for you. Just for checking it out.
Ari [00:44:55] And look forward to seeing you take the leap. And joining our private paid mastermind community. Until then, see you on the next episode.