Hi I am here today with Iman Khan, He is the President of the company Red Elephant, Iman heads up a majority of the coaching and training performed within the company. In his past, Iman has worked as an international journalist, a social activist and has managed teams of hundreds of people to great performance and success. here is the full episode hope you enjoy. Listen in your favourite podcast app.

Ari Gronich 0:01  

Has it occurred to you that the systems we live by are not designed to get results. We pay for procedures instead of outcomes, focusing on emergencies rather than preventing disease and living a healthy lifestyle. For over 25 years, I've taken care of Olympians Paralympians a list actors in fortune 1000 companies, if I did not get results, they did not get results. I realized that while powerful people who control the system wants to keep the status quo, if I were to educate the masses, you would demand change. So I'm taking the gloves off and going after the systems as they are joining me on my mission to create a new tomorrow as I chat with industry experts, elite athletes, thought leaders and government officials about how we activate our vision for a better world. We may agree, and we may disagree, but I'm not backing down. I'm Ari Gronich and this is create a new tomorrow podcast.

Welcome to another episode of create a new tomorrow I am your host, Ari gronich. And I have with me one of my dearest friends, Iman Khan, he is an amazing person. He's led mindset transformational programs for almost 10 years, he and his wife, Afrin have created a company called Red elephant that has impacted hundreds of entrepreneurs lives. And you know, the point of having him on this call is that he is committed to helping entrepreneurs make a stand. But more than that, he's committed to being a stand himself. And so I wanted to talk to him about all the ways in which we can create a new tomorrow by living your stand. So Iman, I'm going to have you give kind of your background a little bit more in depth, so that you can really focus on what you wanted to mention, but I work, I want people to get an idea of the gravity of who you are and what you've done.

Iman Khan 2:13  

Thank you, um, I don't know how much gravity that has. But we're all out here trying to make a difference for people, I think. And for me, that's kind of been always the case, all of my careers because there's been quite a few have been organized around making a difference for people first I my first career was in international diplomacy. And then I transitioned into being a journalist. And then I led mindset programs, and transformational workshops for close to about 20,000 people over the past. My bio is a little data over the past 16 years now. And that's just what that's what I care about. It's what I think my time on the planet is for, and I married someone who's got the same commitment. And we're just out here doing it for entrepreneurs, because for both of us, that's who if you empower them in the right way, will go out in the world and make the biggest difference for their communities, exact change in the societies that they live in. So we are specifically focused on entrepreneurs, but we work with all types of people all the time. And, you know, that's our hustle. We want to get out there and change the world through do the work we do.

Ari Gronich 3:29  

Yes. So, you know, I want to go into that international diplomacy area a little bit. Because you and I have a somewhat similar background in some of the work that you've done with the Israeli Palestinian conflict. And we don't really get that conversation too much. So I wanted to just kind of expose it a little bit. And what you what you were had done during your time working with those two factions. Did I lose you

Iman Khan 4:07  

are you are back I lost you for a second there.

Ari Gronich 4:10  

Okay, gotcha. We're so anyway, the international diplomacy with especially with the Israel Palestinian conflict, I wanted to kind of get your, your take on what you were able to do what you did when you were there.

Iman Khan 4:25  

Sure. My time there was limited, it was very short lived. And mostly it was founded in one of my professors in college was and is the founder of Americans for peace now, which is from the American side of the negotiation process, one of the largest players in that process. So he was not just by a professor, he was like a, he's, he was a mentor. He turned into someone I've modeled myself after and emulated since then, and that was, you know, almost 20 years ago. That's how I got involved in processes because he was involved in the process. And my time there were short lived pretty much for two reasons. The first reason was I could see once I was in that process, that that process for me, and I don't want to be political or get anyone upset. But for me, that process had very little to do with peace, that processes by my understanding of it mostly about other things. And that wasn't the game I wanted to play, I really wanted to play the game of peace. And at the government level, it doesn't seem to be about peace. For me, it's still doesn't. It's about, you know, air rights and water rights and land rights and a whole bunch of things that I think weren't for me when I signed up for the second part of the process was that I could tell, you know, my parents are from Bangladesh, which was formerly Pakistan before that it was India. So we've, in my heritage, my ancestry, we've got several hundred years of colonization and what that looks and feels like. And I don't know that unless you've come from or were born to people who've been colonized in that way that you can really understand how subjugating and suppressive that is. And so for me, there was something happening in the area that the rights of Palestinians and human rights for Palestinians wasn't interacted with are viewed as basic human rights they were, they were being other in a way in which I wasn't comfortable in contributing to that process. So I got out and I started my life as a journalist. And almost immediately after I made that decision, I moved to South Asia and started doing reporting and South Asia. And that was right after it was a year or two after we invaded Iraq. So rendition was the name of the game, people everywhere, all over South Asia, were just disappearing from the streets and being taken to black sites. And that was what I focused on for a while. And then after that, I started focusing on the opium trade, which was happening there. I got to be there during the tsunami that happened in Indonesia, and then the overthrow of the Nepalese monarch. So I got to experience some really exciting stuff while I was out there, but all of it for me has always led back to how can I maximize reaching people and making a difference for them?

Ari Gronich 7:37  

Absolutely. So, you know, for me, I, I used to have a roommate who was a Palestinian Muslim woman, and she was like my sister, I'm a Jewish male, right? So not necessarily what you would consider to be what most people would consider to be compatible roommates and friends, but she was basically like a sister to me. Yeah. her, her cousin, on the law firm that does all of the negotiations between Hamas PLO and Israel. So we would have these conversations about how, you know, she would say something about how Israel is, is a oppressing Palestine. And I'd say something about the bombing, and we would be talking and we would have these heated conversations. And then I'd hear her in her room talking to her cousin. And she'd be like, okay, when you talk to them, you got to we got to, you know, talk about this particular thing, and she would state some of the solutions that we had come up with, during our conversations. It was kind of fascinating that had that kind of a direct.

Iman Khan 8:56  

Yeah, I got it. I mean, what some of the best conversate I think when you're an open dialogue with people, and that's something my professors name was Mark Rosenbloom. And that's the thing he really brought me into was dialoguing with all different concerns and people from all over the spectrum, one of the groups that he had me in we had a former member of Hitler's youth in that group, you know, and so having all those different perspectives, and being able to look at a lot of different perspectives, is I think, what actually leads to understanding and leads to the promotion of things that ended up leading to peace. I think there's a basic understanding in Israeli culture from all the Israelis I met that and I mean, in the citizenry in the in the populace, that Palestinians are their brothers and their sisters and among Israeli citizens. It's a different ballgame for the most part than I think it is with the Israeli government. And I think those are definitely two different things. body's of interest with two different sets of goals and milestones that they're looking to achieve. And I think when we talk about any nation and what's going on politically, we're always talking about the nation and the government, and not talking about its citizens necessarily. But you know, I've met some of some of my closest friends, some of the people I've learned more from, have been people who I was introduced to who are Israeli through this process? And I don't think there's any question I mean, I'm a little bit removed from it now. But there was a time when there was as many civic organizations in Israel as there were in Palestine, working on behalf of Palestinians. So I think that speaks to how the citizenry and the government aren't always necessarily walking the same path towards whatever they're looking to achieve.

Ari Gronich 10:47  

Right. You know, when I was in Israel, I was amazed to learn, there was, however, many millions of Palestinians in the universities living side by side very peacefully, actually, in most cases, and then the government issues, I think it's, I think what you're saying is correct, the government gets in the way, because they have an agenda that is different than the agenda of the people, which is to live peacefully to, you know, feed their their kids and themselves to, you know, have good schools to have running water, all these different things that are kind of the important thing to citizenry is not necessarily the government and the political will of, you know, the government. So that translates, because I know that we've been in this amazing time of pandemics and whatever you want to call them, you know, the, the COVID time, and all these protests are going on, and killings are going on, and that has gotten you up in arms a bit. And I love seeing that side of you. Because be, you know, you don't back down from your position, but you always have sought to understand another position. And that's not necessarily happening. So I want to talk a little bit about the systemic issues that are happening within our world, especially our specific culture and what we're doing in order to, you know, help with that, because I know you're taking a stand, but also what you've seen in the conversation, that doesn't make much sense. Because I a lot of, 

Iman Khan 12:50  

we could be here for hours Ari. But I'll start with what I'm doing. What I'm doing is trying to get as many people as possible to vote at the very like the top layer of what I'm doing, then beyond getting people to vote, I'm trying to empower people to make sure that their vote counts, and that they don't get disenfranchised, and that their vote isn't thrown away, due to some technicality later, which, you know, if you look at the 2000 election between bush and gore, we're not beyond that. We've already 20 year, that's already a tactic that's been used 20 years ago, to get votes to not count. Remember the Chad's with the ballots and how they got all those books when I count the Republicans. I'm an independent, by the way, Republicans haven't won a popular vote since 1984. Ronald Reagan, it's always been on the Electoral College, which, you know, if we start talking about that, and talk about the way districts are zoned and gerrymandered, that's a whole other issue. So I'm not going to get into that. But there hasn't been a popular vote one by the Republican Party since 1984, which was 36 years ago. If you almost all polling shows that a majority of the United States is liberal, and follow very liberal policies. That's not to say that everything needs to be liberal and liberal, this should be in every walk of life. However, if you associate liberalism with what's happening in society, which is happening, people are normalizing liberalism with black lives matter. They're normalizing liberalism with any with climate change, and all the issues that are really kind of plaguing us and endangering our future. They're associating it normalize it with this term called liberalism, which people who aren't liberal have come to hate more than they hate territory more than they hate, a potential authoritarian and office more than they hate fascist policies more than they hate the denigration of the Constitution or the deterioration of even our Supreme Court nominee process. Like there's things that got laid out in the constitution which are like the very fundamental of why America as an experiment, because it was always the American experiment, why America as an experiment work for 200, some odd years. There's people who hate liberals more than they care about upholding those ideals. And now, with all the conspiracy theories, and all the sort of right wing or even white supremacy groups that you see out there, they're more emboldened than they ever were before, which is why a movement like blacklivesmatter is so important.

Ari Gronich 15:33  

So let me ask you a question. If 80% or so of the country has a liberal way of being more liberal mindset, what's going on in the country to mean the last 30 to 50 years have been kind of hell on the country, as far as being progressive, you know, progressing in the world, we've, we, we tend to not act within our own self interest in our politics, in our behaviors, and things like that. And so I go back to like, how do we get to eliminate the bully? You know, for instance, I'll just give you an example. Because it's my world is healthcare. Right? So in healthcare, the reality of healthcare is that it is so far removed from giving people good health. Yeah. And so why is it that we allow these systems that are very conservative in nature, if we're liberal in nature, and the system is a conservative and nature system, then how come we're allowing such disparity between reality of what is happening, and the ideals that we're promoting?

Iman Khan 17:06  

Short? Again, I'm no expert on this. This is just kind of what I think and what I know, based on what I see, and what I study, I've got no degree in this, I've got no career in policy or social understanding or anything like that. But I'll give you my two cents about it. And I think it's a complex question. So first thing is, I think the mindset of the citizen, and the systems of government are two very distinct things. systems of government are very conservative, they're very old. And they take a lot to transform or change, to keep up with the liberal mindset. So I think that's the first thing I think they're two different groups in terms of what they care about what they're listening for what they want to see happen in society. So that's the first thing. The second thing is the systems of government that are in place, we now know are in place in a way that empowers a very small percentage of the population. There's a reason 5% of the country controls 90% of the wealth. So I think the systems we have in place in government support, if not completely empower or enable that reality. So when you have that reality, and most of the nation is poor, in debt, overworked, what happens is it's not like it was in the 1950s, where people went to work from nine to five, and then they came home and they have decentral family unit, and they gathered around the dinner table and discuss the issues of the day and had the spare time to go be a part of civil society and go be civilians who voted and acted on behalf of the things they cared about. people now are working 1214 hours a day, six days a week, those people are still surviving off of EBT. They're taking their EBT checks to the places where they work often. To the people that aren't paying them enough to not meet EBT and spending those EBT checks at those very places to be able to eat when you work 12 to 14 hours a day and you have one day off that day off goes to laundry, paying bills, spending time with the kids, if you have any time or with family or whoever, that the time was completely usurped by maintaining life. So people are fried, they're, they're burnt out and when they get home, being an active citizen, which is already stress inducing is not the thing that they're going to want to do. I think the corporation's know this, I think the people who wield the power and hoard the money know this, and they've created systems to keep people tired, and the keep people unable to participate, unable to advocate for themselves. And then the people who do advocate the people who stepped out of that and who actually go the extra mile and do the difficult work of advocating, the way social media has sort of grown, what it's grown into in the last 20 years, is that anybody can say anything about anyone. And it doesn't need to be fact check. You know, I was on a thread this morning that someone tagged me about wearing a mask or not wearing a mask. And I know I don't want to debate that. There's a lot of discussion about that. But when someone asks someone else to cite their sources, about why wearing a mask is a hoax, their sources are things that q anon and YouTubers have put up. It's not data, it's not empirical data. It's not evidence, it's not numbers. It's my friend who I really trust who did a YouTube on this. So something's happened culturally, where what people can say, and what people are open to believing, has moved away from, in my view, moved away from just the science of things, which is why then it's easy to deny things like climate change, it's why it's easy to deny things that are rooted in numbers and sciences, because the people who don't want you to advocate for your rights are promoting funding, empowering those theories, which then make it even more difficult for you to advocate.

Ari Gronich 21:23  

Gotcha. So my saying is, a bully's best friend is the silence of its victims, and the silence of others. And, you know, we see this every day on in the playground at school with a kid who's, you know, got 30 other kids in his class scared. And the 30, kids don't know that they could kind of band together and blow out that bully, we've got 90% of a nation that is being ruled by about 1%, one to 5%. And we don't know the 90%, don't know that they have an option to get loud. And say, no more, let's banded together, create a movement, create a stand,

Iman Khan 22:18  

I would go a step further and say it's not even that they don't know, it's that they've been conditioned into believing that it's more risky, to band together 30 kids to take on that one belief, and that there's less risk, if you just join with the boat. If you join with the bull, you'll be safe. If you band together and fight the belief, that's a risk. So even though it defies logic, the safe bet that we've been conditioned to believe is to go with the system go with the bully. And you know, again, I could talk about this for hours. But if you look at who designed our current education system, who got together, they weren't educators, and professors, and PhDs and doctors, they were the barons of the 1920s and 30s and 40s on the big corporations, and wanted our education system to groom employees. They didn't want our education, the group of thinkers or innovators or entrepreneur, entrepreneurs, they wanted our education system to put good able bodied thinking people in the employee ship so that they can continue to grow their organizations and their corporations. And so we've had almost 100 years of this kind of acculturation. So I know it seems separate that like the guys who were inventing education, what does that have to do with the modern bully, but it's a mindset, it's the way we've been designed and acculturated to go with the bigger guy. And it's all over television, you watch any reality TV shows like survivor, other shows where people have to strategize to vote someone out, people will never be together to get the bully out. They always side with the bully to get the protection of the bully. So we've been acculturated this way for quite some time. And you know, depending on what you believe in what you don't believe, when you're a culture in this way, for this many generations, it becomes part. You know, it's like fish to water. It's part of the air we breathe. It's just what is in society, fish would never question that they need water surrounding them. Same way we don't question that. You just got to go with the bully to be safe.

Ari Gronich 24:29  

Yeah, you know, the thing that that I would hope is that things like cancer, diabetes, heart disease would be enough for people to start saying but the bully of the healthcare system isn't worth the pain of losing all my friends and family to these diseases, the pain of you know, having the food in our, you know, in our environment and agriculture poison us and cause us to be sick or the air and water. You know, it's like I would think 

Iman Khan 25:02  

I would agree with you. But it depends on what sources of information you have, and what the sources of information are telling you. And it also depends, you know, where we're an individualistic, convenience driven society. One of the people on that thread, I was just mentioning who were saying that wearing a mask is a hoax, and it has no benefit. Someone in the thread asked them, okay, well, if that's what you believe, are you okay with having surgery with the doctor not wearing a mask? Since there's no benefit to it? And of course you can somebody responded, well, that makes no sense. Why wouldn't my doctor wear a mask? Right. So it's, we're not taught to link things and be, you know, it's like, we're a genius here, but an idiot over here. Because we were just not trained to apply that genius over here. So and I think that's all, you know, I'm a bit of a skeptic. But I think that's all just the way society has designed for it to be so that the people who wield the power of money can continue to do that.

Ari Gronich 26:10  

So what do you think it's going to take for the people to regain power over themselves, so that they can create a different world than the one that they're living in? You know, Benjamin Franklin, I believe is who it was, who used to say, we need a revolution every 25 years. And we haven't had a good revolution in a while, you know, so what do you think is gonna take for?

Iman Khan 26:38  

I would say, I don't know, revolutions the right word, I would say there's definitely, you know, humanity has always reliably transformed itself. Like, humanity believes one thing, and then there was a major transformation. And then they stopped believing that thing. If you look at the end of slavery, that was a transformation for humanity. If you look at the end of monarchies, and monarchial rule, that was a transformation for humanity. If you look like women's suffrage, that's a transformation for humanity. Right. So I think, I don't know about revolutions. But I think humanity has always been really reliable to transform things for itself, to bring about the next age or whatever it brings about, I don't think we've had one of those real transformations since the Industrial Revolution. You know, there was civil rights in America was a transformation in ways. Um, but it also wasn't many ways. You know, it also, it didn't go far enough, which we're learning today, 50 years later, that that didn't go far. And because of the systemic, or the institutional racism that managed to survive the Civil Rights Act. So it was, it was great change. I don't know that it really transformed the society as a whole, maybe some people but not wasn't a full transformation through society. And I think the Industrial Revolution was the last real societal transformation we had like that. Even if you think about World War Two, and I don't know how much how related to Jewish culture, you are, you're Jewish. But how many people throughout the world still even deny that the Holocaust happened?

Ari Gronich 28:21  

A lot.

Iman Khan 28:22  

deniers everywhere, it's the most ridiculous thing. But that's what I'm saying. Like that amount of suffering, that amount of genocide still didn't produce that kind of transformation where there was never a genocide again. Sure. genocide sense, you know what I mean? So I think we're due for a transformation. And I think it's going to happen at the level of consciousness or spirituality. And I think that's what, where we're in the early stages of

Ari Gronich 28:49  

so so then, here's the question because I watched the riots, I watched the protests happening. Recently, I was in the middle of the Rodney King riots, like having flaming trash cans thrown over my car. So I've been in the atmosphere of rioting and protesting. But as my buddy AJ has said, Where are you today? Where you were there yesterday at the protest? But where are you today? What are you doing today to extend the reach beyond a protest? Especially beyond a violent protest into policymaking? Right. So how would you, you know, as somebody who helps people create their stands, right? How would you shift somebody from the need to be an employee who's working 10 to 12 hours 16 hours a day and has no time to really do what they are passionate about, and they have a stand about How would you suggest somebody get out of that world so that they can be long term activated in the protest? On a more internal basis versus external basis?

Iman Khan 30:16  

Well, I, again, there's just so much to unpack. The questions are complex, there's so much unpacking them. So the first thing is, I don't know. First, you'd have to see if they have that desire. If they don't have that desire, I wouldn't, you know, you can't pee for people. So if they've got that desire, great, it starts with educating themselves, and setting themselves up to be able to be viable and sustain whatever future they're moving into and away from. And if it's not viable, it'll fail. So I can't even I I'll give you an example, when I left my corporate job and became an entrepreneur, I had to be able to see that I could sustain myself that way, and then go after sustaining myself that way, and give myself enough room to be able to eat and not be financially threatened in the interim, because when we know that financial threats are the biggest kind of threats for people, when facing a financial threat, people will give up their passions and what they stand for, and what they're committed to, to deal with the financial crash. Very few people have that kind of where with all where they can withstand a financial threat for the sake of what they stand for, they're committed to, it's just too much of a threat to their existence, our ego, our brain does not register it in a way in which is conducive to us fulfilling our commitments when we're threatened financially. So I think the first thing that has to get handled for people is they have to be able to look and know that they're going to be financially okay. And if they're competent about their financial future becomes way more easy, way more risk, reduced for them to be able to step into that. So that's one thing. The second thing is your, what you stand for, it's insufficient for you to stand for it. If what you want to do is exact real change in society, or have policy change. You have to have people come with you. If people don't come with you, you literally can often just be a lone nut out there, screaming what you're screaming with nobody listening. And it's not until people come with you. And more and more people are educated about a thing. And more and more people sign up to advocate for that thing. And then the right people, meaning government, official celebrities, whoever, the people who are connected and can actually get under and sort of stimulate the people who are capable of policy change, to make it me walking in to a legislators office today, saying, hey, I need this policy change, just is not going to have the same weight as their top contributor, walking into that pop office and saying I need the policy change. So that's a whole other conversation about the constructs of society. But the bottom line is, you're not going to get that person that has that kind of influence to walk in and demand the policy change. Until you've got enough of a groundswell where something about that person's reputation life career is threatened. Once they've got considerable reason to walk into that policymakers office, they will know you don't get that kind of groundswell until enough people are educated about a thing. So it's not overnight. If you look, you know, you look at the metoo movement movement was around for many years before they got the right advocates and Alyssa Milano and Rosa go in and Reese Witherspoon, it had been around for a long time, the groundswell happened when those advocates have joined in. So someone who's got to clip in like that they've got a passion like that, and they're gonna see it through the end, they've got to be willing to play the long game, they've got to know that it's more failure than it is success. And the success when it comes. In all likelihood, will be the result of one person's efforts.

Ari Gronich 34:18  

You know, one of the things that I love about your some of your trainings is the definitions that you give to each of the people that are needed for creating a stand. So cheer from the cheerleader to, you know, all of the different aspects like I'm the Wizard of Oz. I'm like, I feel like I'm the guy behind the curtain. I'm not ever the guy who's in front of the curtain. Until now i've i've been switching who I am so that I could be a little more out front, because I felt like nobody was doing What I needed them to do, you know, so I figured I would have to be that, but I'm used to being the guy behind the guys, you know, being that the the person training the Olympic athlete who's out front, not being the Olympic athlete, you know? And so I really like the definitions, can you just give kind of like, briefly the definitions of who somebody needs for their stance so that maybe maybe the audience can say, yeah, that's me. And I need to find more of this. And I know, I know somebody who's that, and so we can kind of combine ourselves and collaborate. To make Yeah, I knew that

Iman Khan 35:45  

I will. And you should know, like, the what can get done in this call is by no way or shape, or form a going to be sufficient to the understanding of it, in my opinion, but you

Ari Gronich 35:57  

have to take your they're going to have to take your courses. Yeah, feel free to come take our book.

Iman Khan 36:04  

Um, so But yes, you got to have the guy leading the charge. Or though I shouldn't say, guy, you gotta have the person leading the charge, the person with the vision, the person who's the pioneer, and really going to stand for whatever their commitment is. And then from there, you've got to get the first person that follows you, it's you'll have many followers, but the first person that followers you, makes it Okay, for the next group of people that want to follow you to come follow you. Once you get that smaller group together. So now you've got that first follower who made it safe for everyone else. And then you've got the next set of followers, who make it safe at large, they become your strongest group of advocates. And they'll start advocating for you on different channels and different media with different societies, different communities. And the more you train them to advocate, what you need advocated, the more they'll go advocate it for you and actually get your message out there. As your message gets out there, the advocacy grows and the number of people advocating grows. At this point, you'll start seeing the first members of the bandwagon. So the bandwagon can really, they can show up in any stage of the development of a movement. And they can show up following just about any role bandwagon, or people who just won't move until they know it's safe. Their safety in numbers. So when there's a lot of advocates, you'll start seeing some numbers of the bandwagon. You'll if you look through social media, you'll see that certain people are always causing disruption. I'm a disrupter. By the way, certain people are always causing disruption. disruption has a real role in the advancing of a movement. Because what it does is it polarizes people, and shows you exactly who's on your side, and who's not on your side. And you'll notice a lot of the people who are a part of the bandwagon, your comment thread will be at like 50 or 100, before they actually make a comment. Why. And it's always the case with that group of people, there's some people who are going to just jump right in and start their first line, they're going to start defending you they're going to start responding to comments are going to start trying to educate people, there's another group of people who you've got to be 100 comments deep before they'll say anything, because now it's safe. So the bandwagon will only participate when it's safe. And they're the even though they wait till it's safe, they're a really critical part of any movement. Because until the bandwagon gets on board, there is no movement, you just don't have the numbers, right. So those are some of the roles and then you know, there's after the advocacy has gone to a certain place, that's when you have the celebrities or the government officials come in because they can no longer ignore it. Either a large part of their constituents or a large part of their fan base, are now too involved in this for them to stay uninvolved. They have to get involved sometimes reluctantly, um, and represent the people who support them. And then they'll take whatever the position is to the people who can influence policy or who can influence laws or can influence whatever needs influencing. But that's a process. Right? You know, that. If you look at the Black Lives Matter movement, it didn't start when George flyod was murdered. No, it's been in process for many years. And even it being in process was the tail end of many, many decades of other processes that it started long before. So it's not it's not something that happens just overnight in most cases. And like I said, it's got to be, I think, a lot of people who start movements, it becomes more about their story and their narrative about the movement rather than the movement. And for a movement to be successful. It's got to be able to outlive whoever starts it because most movements? Well,

Ari Gronich 40:02  

so do you think that Martin Luther King was too much about Martin Luther King or Gandhi was too much about Gandhi or Mother Teresa was too much? 

Iman Khan 40:16  

What was what are you left with? are you left with Martin Luther King step for this and now that he's dead, it's over, you left with the movement, you're left with the movement. And that's the intention. Every movements got to have big personalities around it to gain the attention. They need the game. But with any of the people you just mentioned, you're not left with the person, you're left with what they stood for.

Ari Gronich 40:36  

See that that's where I think that I get a little bit shaken in my tracks, because Martin Luther King was bigger than MLK he was the movement, but the movement didn't last. Too much beyond the acceptance of that bill. Right. And it wasn't content.

Iman Khan 41:06  

It wasn't public. I didn't get the media attention that he got. But I wouldn't, I wouldn't necessarily agree that the movement didn't last. I think the movements been heavy underway since then. And it's just now in recent times, with all the police killings and police brutality over the last 15, 20 years, probably since Rodney King, but really, in since social media has become a thing that every citizen is attached to the it's gotten the media attention again, because after ignoring it for 30 some odd years, and after ignoring the movement for 30, some odd years, the media, journalists, news groups, newspapers, magazines, politicians, too many of their constituents, were tuned back into it because of social media. And too many people went Hey, what the hell is happening? Because they didn't know it was happening because it wasn't getting coverage. What got more coverage Rodney King getting beat up? Or what happened after?

Ari Gronich 42:12  

Well, I mean, the whole thing. Yeah, what happened after but

Iman Khan 42:16  

right. So the media has been that way for a long time. And I think the advent of social media, especially after like 2007, social media took information and what people can see and what information they have access to, in a new direction. And that's when people started. That's when people started speaking up again, that's when they started getting noticed again. And that's when the fact that the movement had continued for the last 510 40 some odd years, became

Ari Gronich 42:42  

unable to be ignored again. Right. So So I guess here, here's where, where, I guess the my confusion would be blusher. colored people in general, have been harassed and bullied on a daily basis for their entire lives for the most part. And so, yes, I get that the media hasn't been covering the bullying that's been happening on a regular basis on a daily basis, like for the last 20 years since Rodney King pretty much. But the people who are experiencing it, have been aware that they're experiencing it. But for the most part, they've been silent. Until social media started coming. And all of a sudden the cameras were able to come out and and expose it directly. The people weren't complaining loudly enough for the media to cover that. But it's been happening. So like my buddies movie ajl these movie walking while black. Right? It's because he was being followed in a neighborhood that he wasn't supposed to be in. cops were pulling guns on him. And this is a guy who's an Air Force veteran who, you know, played soccer for our country, as part of the Air Force has owned soccer teams has been a major media person in general and he's being harassed because they think that they can. It wasn't until he literally made a movie saying this is what's happened to me that that part came out. The the complaining of regular everyday citizens hasn't been happening for the last 20 years.

Iman Khan 44:50  

Well, I I don't know that. I agree with that. I think when, again, when you go back to social media, it's the most fun controlled Well, up until recently, it was the most uncontrolled meaning free form of expressing or showing or casting your videos or casting a message that we've ever had previous to that to say that people weren't speaking loudly enough. I mean, I guess that's a vantage point, I don't share that vantage point, I think media has a job, which is to sell. Black people or people of color being persecuted was not what sold. So they stayed away from it. It's just not how they could make money. It's not what the advertisers wanted on the airwaves. And that's where they get their money from the advertiser. It's not what they saw as their quickest path to cash. And that's what ultimately the bottom line is about, can we make money? again, it goes back to those corporate interests and who controls the well, it's all part of the same system. So I don't agree that they weren't loud enough. And especially in a particular way, when you're being victimized, or at the receiving end of that, like your friend was, there's very few people who are going to have the resources and be able to do what he did make a film out of it. In fact, most of the people who are victimized are in that category of people who get victimized, won't have those types of resources and means he was able to do that, because he had those resources, most people in that category won't have those resources. And there's also like a psychology to being constantly subjugated and suppressed and gaslit. There's something that happens with the individual's mind about what they're able to do and what they're able to accomplish or not able to accomplish. society becomes like this impossible thing to deal with, even with when you brought up the police. It happens time and time again, because there's no accountability for it. Tomorrow, in any city in this country. If a police officer is found, to have done the wrong thing and sued, they don't carry their own insurance. There's no ramification for them to not do that, again, it's mine and your tax dollars that are going to go pay for whatever settlement amount that had to get paid, because that police officer acted however they acted. There's no accountability for them, they might lose their job. But then they'll go work in private security or find a job in another city working as a cop, which is often what happens. My point here is, even when we talk about things, like defend the police, first of all, I think it was the worst campaign name, they could have given something. Right. It's never said to be fun. I hate that. They said the fun, even though I do understand why they said it. Um, it created the wrong picture of what the intention behind that was. The fun doesn't mean take away police. It means something totally different. But why that even comes into conversation, is because the system that's in place, has zero accountability for the people who are perpetrating the crimes. The people who killed George Floyd are never gonna pay for it financially. Right? People of that city are

Ari Gronich 48:10  

right, so So the question becomes, okay, so I still kind of disagree that people aren't being loud enough, because to me, you can get media attention by being really, really loud. And not doing it with violence, but doing it with silent protests, just the way Martin Luther King did. In the 60s, 

Iman Khan 48:32  

so sorry, civil, I believe it's sorry about nonviolent protests. But the reason people were even paying attention was because of all the violence that was happening. We have a very violent history, this country was born out of violence. The Boston Tea Party was violent. Everything that's been a part of anything that's gotten attention in this country in the last 244 years, has been born of violence. There have been peaceful protests about ending police brutality for 30 years. How many of you heard about and I take issue with that being the focus? people focus on the violent part of the protest, which a majority of the people protesting aren't violent, they're not committing acts of violence. It's faction groups on every side, we're performing the violence, we have nothing to do with the movement or the stand. I keep. We keep talking about the violence as though that's the thing to focus on. And I just don't think it is it's like, that can't be what leads our conversations if any change is going to come because that is what the people who don't want the change to come rely on people talking about in order to prevent the change.

Ari Gronich 49:42  

Right. So I don't necessarily I'm not against even the violence, let alone for it or against it. Okay. What I'm for is having civil conversations that move something forward, whether that's in a town hall with a government official Who can make a policy change? Right? Or panels of citizenry that just get together and say, okay, you know, my neighborhood is doing this. You all live in my neighborhood with me. Let's see what we can do to fix our own personal neighborhood.

Iman Khan 50:21  

Great. Can I ask you a question? What do we do about the fact that nobody's willing to schedule those conversations until they're inconvenienced with something other than a silent protest? silent protest has never brought about those conversations. That's why silent protests are ineffective, pretty much worldwide. What brings about those conversations is when people's economics or their security like security, meaning their storefront, their home, their body when those things are threatened. That's the historically if you look back, that's what brings about conversations. Silent protest does not bring about those conversations.

Ari Gronich 51:02  

Yes, we deal with that. Yes. And those people who are living in those communities are suffering constant financial and safety and security issues. Because

Iman Khan 51:15  

people who can make the change aren't.

Ari Gronich 51:18  

So how do we deal with that? They are the citizens, right? The citizens are our country. And so it is incumbent upon the citizenry to make the changes that they want to see happen, and not necessarily rely on the government to do it for them.

Iman Khan 51:35  

I agree with you. But my point is, I guess my question is, in your in the way you're proposing this, the onus relies on the people being victimized. Yeah. The onus is on the people being victimized, but part of being victimized is that you're disempowered. So you're asking a people group of people who are already disempowered, and have whatever psychology they're dealing with as a result of that level of disempowerment, to empower themselves to exact change, about the very thing that they're disempowered about, that you can never put the onus on the victim, if you want to bring about change. That's not how change gets enacted. It might be how it gets started, it might be the impetus or the stimulus, but the it never works to further victimize the victim by saying, Okay, now you've been victimized, it's your job to fix your victimization.

Ari Gronich 52:27  

Well, okay. So, I would disagree and agree with that, because, you know, you we can go back and forth about that, but it is the onus on the victim, to let the victimizer know that they're being victim victimized by the victimizer, because sometimes the victimizer doesn't even know that they're doing it.

Iman Khan 52:51  

Yeah, I just don't agree. I mean, we can agree to disagree on this. But I

Ari Gronich 52:57  

really disagree. My point is that the system itself does not necessarily know that it's broken. The people who have a vested interest in the system being broken are not the people who are going to change it. And so who is left to change the system so that you're not being victimized? I'm not being victimized anymore. As a community. So I'm in medicine, I'm in the medical community, right? And doctors are being victimized daily by the insurance companies and the pharmaceutical companies and the AMA, right, you agree of the doctors get loud. It's your job to say no, this is not the way that I'm supposed to do medicine, the insurance company is telling me to do it wrong. The insurance companies telling me to do it wrong, and they need to get loud. And how about bringing in 50,000 of your doctor friends who also feel that same way to come on board with you telling the insurance companies that they're doing it wrong, because ever change their motivation is

Iman Khan 54:15  

on the saying, I think it's a very unique a way of arguing for that. Here's why I say that. You're talking about doctors who are a part of a group of people who've been educated for 20 some odd years of financial resources, have community resources, have professional resources to go do that. And they're not you know, you can call them victims, but they're so empowered in life already. That to call them victims. It's not the same as a grown up in the hood. And not having access to textbooks and not having access to everything that everyone should have. have access to as a child, it's just not the same that the psychology that got them to their the point where that doctor can fight back in however they're being victimized by the AMA and Big Pharma is a completely different psychology than someone who spent an entire life from the time they were born, being suppressed and subjugated in a particular way. So yeah, you could say the doctors were being victimized against what background though, you know, the the context of that conversation is so different for me. And it works in the argument, I give you that. But I also think that's an exception. And when you're talking professional, I'm really talking human rights. And human rights are distinct from professional.

Ari Gronich 55:47  

Right, but it took women to start the women's suffrage movement and say, I'm being victimized, and I'd stopped going to work for me any longer. It took,

Iman Khan 55:57  

yeah, yeah. I said they could be the stimulus for it. They could be the thing that ignites it, or the impetus for it. But the change, women didn't vote on that change. Men voted on that change.

Ari Gronich 56:09  

Yeah, cuz the women made it so uncomfortable to not Yeah, sure. So that's all there is, is the population of people being victimized, need to be loud enough, and make it uncomfortable enough for the bully, so to speak, bully that they have, that the people not being bullied by the bully, are so uncomfortable by the conversation that they say no more bully, I can't handle this conversation anymore. So you're the one that's gonna have to learn a different way, not the people who are being victimized. Right.

Iman Khan 56:47  

That's Yeah, I mean, I got your view about it. I still don't agree. But I got what you're saying.

Ari Gronich 56:51  

Okay. We, and again, we don't have to agree on it. I just, I'm, I want the different point of view, because I do love having not being in an echo chamber and not having everybody agree with with, with what I'm saying. But let's go to an effectiveness point of view, right, a performance point of view, work of what has had the best performance in making change up till now. And what can have better performance and be more optimal to make the change faster, quicker, more effective now? Right? So as on a performance point of view? Is it going to be more effective or less effective for the people being victimized to be victims, or to be victors? and shift how they, you know, interact in the world so that other people will shift how they're being interacted with? Or is it better to just say, you need to repair reparations, so to speak, you need to repair what you've done. Go repair what you've done, repair. I

Iman Khan 58:16  

don't think one of those things, I think it's all of those things. Now, you're asking what's going to be most effective, I have no idea. I know what's most effective that you didn't mention for any movement to really take root and go through to the end of the movement is education. The more that people are educated, the more people truly understand a thing, the more likely they are to get in support, or at least not stand in the way of that thing. So I think education is absolutely critical and education is I think probably education is the quickest road to what you're saying. Now in terms of the victims being victors, I think it's always ideal that people don't stay in the victim space. I think it's always ideal that people empower themselves even when they've been victimized. I've been victimized plenty my family's been victimized. I lived in New York City in a family and a very large family of Muslims after 911. I can tell you stories for days about what's happened to my family and my extended community after 911. But I don't come from a community that stays victimized. My community. My parents are from Bangladesh, which was formerly East Pakistan, just about every single adult I grew up with my dad's brothers, sisters, friends, all fought in the war. So they all watched their, you know, a genocide took place in Bangladesh, and they all watch their brothers, cousins, parents all die, and they fought and survived. So I naturally come from a community that knows how to empower itself that we never stay victimized by anything. It's just not in our it's not in our nature. It's not in our culture of a state of victimizing that way. But I was very fortunate. In that regard. I was very fortunate and that we always had a method to empower ourselves. I don't know that everybody comes from a culture like that. That's why I was Saying that previous thing is that you can't put the onus on the victim because they don't naturally, the state of being a victim doesn't lend you to also empowering yourself to go change the thing you were victimized by. It's a catch 22. But that being said, Yeah, absolutely. People being empowered and people speaking up and people banding together, those are all ideals. Those are all things that we want to have happen. And anytime there's something that victimizes people, of course, that would be the ideal that they all get together and stand up and force it to stop, I just don't think history has shown us that that's the way that that goes. And even when it does, there's many, it's much easier to stop something like that than to keep standing for it. Because when you stand for it, there's just a lot of failure. And a lot of people don't have what it takes to go failure after failure after failure and not give up. Most people won't stay the course.

Ari Gronich 1:00:56  

And I get that and you know, for me, I mean, I've been like, sad bullied most of my life, I was raped, molested, treated, like, like, I was, you know, because I was the I was Jewish, I was the guy who killed Christ. I don't know how that happened that, you know, two couple thousand years later, I was the one who did it. But that was how I grew up was being told that I was a Christ killer, and that I didn't deserve to be alive. And I was fat, and I was poor. And I was, you know, and then I was, you know, raped, molested at three years old. So I had all of these things are, made me who I am today, which I love who I am. And I also know that I am in a place nowadays, where like I've taken and I've transmuted most of the traumas into some kind of path for me, so I do emotional trauma relief with my my patients and clients. Why? Because it's effective. And I'm and I'm good at it. And why am I good at it? Because I've experienced what I didn't want to experience. And so I am an expert in how to get rid of those those traumas and those things, right. So I just from my world, I go, Okay, so if somebody is being traumatized daily for being black, or for being a woman, or for being anything, mm hmm, what would, what would I want to see happen for me? Do I want to continue to be traumatized? Or do I want to stand up? Okay, if I want to stand up, then what do I do then? And, you know, this is just how my brain works. Oh, I just want to say, you know, like, for my perspective on this particular thing, that and then we'll go to a totally different, we'll start talking about entrepreneurs in stands. But I wanted to have this conversation with you. Because I know how passionate you are about, about all of it about what matters. Sure, Paul politics and stuff like that is, you know, what I would want to see from myself is that I would take the step back, and then go towards a place of understanding. So like, I went to a place of understanding what what did that guy who molested me? When I was three years old, what was his damage? You know, what was the stuff he was having to deal with in life? No. And then I take that into understanding I just read to my son, this book is on the value of understanding. It's all about Margaret Mead, and her work going to the Samoan islands and different islands around in learning about people. The one thing that stuck to me was not just how she understood how she wanted to understand, and listen because she wanted the education, like you said, it was that she came to that education with no judgment. Right. And so for me, I would say to both sides of the subject, is in order to educate yourself and get understood yourself. You have to come in without judging the the other person, right. So, like, for me, I'm white. I would and I'm Jewish, which I said some I've said to people, I'm white, I'm Jewish and Latino. And so there's no part of me that feels like a white person. And I'm not black. And I'm not really Brown, like some of my family is that are Latino. So I am this white person having a white experience in a white country, so to speak. And you know that I will never have the experience of being black. Even if I were to paint my body, like I've seen Eddie Murphy do, you know, do his white and paint my you know, and go around and experience what it's like, it's not going to be the same experience. So what I would what I guess what I'm getting at is

I come to every conversation, knowing that I don't know. And so being really curious as to what the experience of you is, what how you grew up. I I'm fascinated by how you grew up how those people that you grew up with that were in that war, learned how to deal with all the death around them, and all the suffering around them and stuff. that fascinates me. Sure. Right. And I think that that's the thing that most people are missing in our echo chambers today is the fascination with what's different than what you've experienced in your life. Sure,

Iman Khan 1:06:28  

right. Sure. I agree with you. I mean, I totally agree with you. And I just want to point to something you said about why I think it's missing. See, and I think you said it, you are a white man living in a white man's world in which the perception of society is that these, they're these other non white things coming into this white man's world, which you have the comfort and the luxury of really picking, I'll engage in that, I will learn that I'll be fascinated about that. When that's not your reality, when you're not a white man living in a white world, what the world looks like, and how safe it is. And what you can choose to get involved in and engaged in is a much different reality. Things don't look like opportunity, when you've grown up that way. Whereas it does for you. I also think you've done a lot of work and you've done a lot of personal development that leads you with this kind of mindset that you have this approach to being open and fascinated and curious. But you know, Latino, Jewish, fat, whatever, you still present as white. So the way the world interacts with you when you're in it is like a white man. You know, I was in Daytona I, you know, I lead masterminds, I lead group programs for people I coach. I was a Daytona last September, and I was running around getting food going to the grocery store picking up the printing, with like 30 people there at the Hard Rock in Daytona. In one night, I was pulled over three times by Daytona police for no reason. Now, there was absolutely zero reason for me to be pulled over each time when they pulled over, they pulled over with a lot of caution, because I present as black when we rolled the window down, and they saw who I was, and that I wasn't black. And they could make out that I was South Asian. It turned into some version of Oh, have a good night, or Oh, we were just checking to make sure everything was okay. What are you doing out here we see. Like there was no reason for me to be pulled over three times in one night. And it was so disruptive to what I was doing that I didn't even go back out. Because I didn't want to get pulled over and have something happen and not be able to leave the mastermind I was leaving. So the way it occurs for me to be curious or be fascinated, or to learn with nothing in the background, when I'm engaging in the world is different than it's going to occur for you. It's a luxury you have that I don't always have. So it's just another layer of challenge for me to get myself educated in that way because it doesn't feel safe. And it never feels safe. Like I have an instinctual bodily reaction every time I see a cop. There's nothing wrong with my car. There's nothing wrong with my license. I'm a really safe driver. I follow the laws. But when I see a cop I have that guttural reaction, because I don't know if I'm going to be safe. So that's an already condition that I deal with in the world. That you may not because you present as white. So you're aptness to being curious. And my aptness to being curious are just two different they're they're in two different worlds. But I get what you're saying and I do again. It's like I've not no need to be an idealist. But these they're great ideals. I wish. I wish this is how we could live and it was how we lived because it's really it is idealistic. It's That would be the smartest and most efficient way to go about something. I absolutely agree. I just don't know in our cut in the development of our consciousness and how we exist in society that were there or even close to there To be honest,

Ari Gronich 1:10:16  

no, I yeah. And I get that and and I'm not an idealist. By my actions. I wasn't trying

Iman Khan 1:10:24  

to label you that I take it back. I'm

Ari Gronich 1:10:27  

just saying I'm not by my actions, but I'm definitely I believe in the possibility of utopia.

Iman Khan 1:10:34  

Yeah, I get that. And so we need it, you know, people, there's people who've got to keep hope up with hope alive for the rest of us. So,

Ari Gronich 1:10:41  

exactly. So you know, I believe that that that utopia is possible. And it's just a plan that hasn't been actualized yet?

Iman Khan 1:10:50  

Well, no, I'm with you. I actually think remember earlier, I was saying, I think the next transformation is a spiritual one and one of consciousness, I actually think everything you're saying could be the reality. Once we have that transformation,

Ari Gronich 1:11:05  

I got it. So let's, let's just work towards making that transformation quicker. But let's go to let's go to a little bit lighter conversation, entrepreneurs making a stand, red elephant, you know, red elephant is an interesting name. And what's even more interesting is the way that you guys have presented red elephant to the world, which is, you know, the members are members of the herd. And you've kind of created your own language around it. So, you know, for other people who are entrepreneurs who want to create a stand and create a movement and create their new tomorrow. You know, let's talk a little bit about that. Let's Let's door delve into your

Iman Khan 1:11:48  

What about that? What do you want to know?

Ari Gronich 1:11:50  

Yeah, so let's just, oh, let's just do a really quick, you know, talk about three to five things that somebody can do tomorrow that they can start actualizing, tomorrow, to create their new tomorrow and become the standard for whatever it is that they want to do, because I know you've helped people with, with all kinds of issues, and nor is of standards, whether personal or big community? Sure.

Iman Khan 1:12:26  

Sure. I mean, I think the first thing with anything is beliefs. What are your beliefs, there's a reason there we call them limiting beliefs, they don't have to be limiting. So it's like if you've got to stand for something that you don't think can get realized it won't. If you've got to stand for something that you wholeheartedly believe, can get realized that it's got a chance, it doesn't mean it will. But it means now it's got a fighting chance, because you're willing to believe that it can happen. So everything starts with belief in your mindset. And if you and that's like whether you want to start a business, whether you want to start a movement, whether you want to heal something internally for yourself, that has nothing to do with other people, everything is I believe that everything's happens in the mind first. So if you believe it, it can happen in your physical body, it can happen in the world, anything we can envision, we can realize, right? So everything starts with belief, after belief. It's, you know, manifesting something into reality, takes the constant work of believing it and seeing it not giving up on it having really like for those of you who are athletes or played sports, you know, this what I'm talking about, because you've always got to have a winning mindset. You can't endeavor into something with a losing mindset, or what if mindset, there's too much negative energy to pull you back into losing that game. If you go into something with a winning mindset, believing that you can, you'll take different actions and you'll take with a what if or a can happen for me mindset. mindset determines the kind of planning and thinking you'll do. So the planning that you want to then take action on is the planning born of a belief mindset of a positive mindset. Because it'll just reframe your actions. And then it won't just change your actions, it won't just change the actions you can take. But it'll also increase the effectiveness of those actions. Doing something while I believe I can get it done will yield a different result than doing something that I don't believe can get done. So, again, belief and then the planning you do you want to have be from the winning mindset. And then you want to take action that's consistent with the winning mindset. You don't want to take action consistent with something not being able to get done, kind of like you were talking about a second ago Ari about like staying in the belief that anything is possible and in that utopian dream, that's where you want to plan from. You want to account for reality in the world in your planning. You want to do the planning from the biggest, boldest vision you can imagine, I'd rather plan to empower a million people and fail by 900,000, then only plan to reach 100,000 and fail by 10,000. You know, it's, you want to go for the biggest, baddest vision you can kind of muster up and have that be what really drives everything else. In my opinion, that's how we've operated. It's done really well, for us. Our visions are always much bigger than we have seen, demonstrated or seen done. And I think that's what gives us so much vigor and vitality in the pursuit of them.

Ari Gronich 1:15:47  

Awesome. So how can people get a hold of red elephant if they're interested in taking advantage of some of the courses and trainings and events that you guys offer? Because, you know, for me, they've been invaluable. And I highly recommend them to anybody who's listening, you know, red elephant has has been influential in my life. And I know that they will give you exactly what you need. I mean, you just get on one of their, one of their calls and one of their events. And you'll know, at the very onset, that they are authentic people who really care about you getting what you want in life. So how can people get ahold of you? And

Iman Khan 1:16:32  

yeah, sure, I mean, depending on how you like to play well, on social media, you can be on Facebook and just look for the red elephant herd and join the Social Media Group. That way, all of our information, everything gets posted in that Facebook group. Also, you can visit our website, which is red elephant Inc, as an incorporated. So it's red elephant INC.com. Or if you want someone to pay attention to you right away, because you need something urgently, you can just email us at info@Red elephantINC.com and someone will get back to you really fast.

Ari Gronich 1:17:04  

Awesome. Thank you so much in mind for coming on. I know that you've got a busy life. And so it was, it was important for me to have you on here. I wanted to have these kinds of conversations with you. I would look forward anytime to continuing the next 10 hour conversation.

Iman Khan 1:17:25  

And a couple of hours mixed

Ari Gronich 1:17:29  

in with us, you know, but I appreciate it. You're You're an amazing and inspirational person.

Iman Khan 1:17:37  

Thank you, you too. And thank you for the opportunity.

Ari Gronich 1:17:40  

So thank you very much. audience. I hope you got a lot out of this conversation. This has been another episode of create a new tomorrow. I am your host, Ari Gronich and my wish for you is that you can create a new tomorrow today by taking some of these bits and pieces of information and gems that the guests have shown and implementing them in your life. Right away. So thank you so much. And we are out. Thank you. Thank you for listening to this podcast. I appreciate all you do to create a new tomorrow for yourself and those around you. If you'd like to take this information further and are interested in joining a community of like minded people who are all passionate about activating their vision for a better world. Go to the website, create a new tomorrow.com and find out how you can be part of making a bigger difference. I have a gift for you just for checking it out and look forward to seeing you take the leap and joining our private paid mastermind community. Until then, see you on the next episode.