Hi, I am here with Greg Lawrence, He is a Psychedelic Integration and Transformational Coach, Energy Worker, and active member of the Southern California psychedelic community.

CHECK THIS AMAZING WEBSITE BY GREG TO LEARN MORE:

https://psychedelicintegrationspecial...

JOIN NOW!! AND BE PART OF MASTERMIND PROGRAM

learn how to activate yourself for a better future!

https://createanewtomorrow.com/master...

CHECK THIS LINK FOR A FREE GIFT FOR YOU!

https://www.createanewtomorrow.com/gift

DO YOU WANT TO BE OUR NEXT SPECIAL GUEST?

Book an appointment now and let's create a new world together!

https://booking.builderall.com/calend...

CHECK THIS OTHER WEBSITE FOR MORE INFORMATION!

https://www.CreateAnewtomorrow.com

https://www.Achievehealthusa.com

Create a fundamental change in the global community from a strictly reactive system of medicine that focuses on symptom and emergency treatment to a proactive system based on whole-being health as well as illness and injury prevention. Personally teach and influence at least one million people.

We are a multifaceted Health and Wellness company that specializes in Corporate Wellness and Culture Consulting, Industry Speaking engagements and Continuing education for the industry.

We Help corporations by solving the most costly problems they have with Productivity and Health Care while creating a culture that thrives on accomplishment and community.

We help organizations think outside of the box and gain tools that allow them to be nimble and strong as tides and markets shift.

We Up level the skills and tools of other practitioners by providing them continuing education that actually leads to greater success and standing in the business community.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Ari Gronich 0:00  

Has it occurred to you that the systems we live by are not designed to get results? We pay for procedures instead of outcomes, focusing on emergencies rather than preventing disease and living a healthy lifestyle. For over 25 years, I've taken care of Olympians Paralympians a list actors in fortune 1000 companies, if I do not get results, they do not get results. I realized that while powerful people who control the system want to keep the status quo, if I were to educate the masses, you would demand change. So I'm taking the gloves off and going after the systems as they are. Join me on my mission to create a new tomorrow as I chat with industry experts, elite athletes, thought leaders and government officials about how we activate our vision for a better world. We may agree and we may disagree, but I'm not backing down. I'm Ari Gronich. And this is create a new tomorrow podcast.

Welcome back to another episode of create a new tomorrow. I'm your host, Ari Gronich and I have with me, Greg Lawrence, and Greg is a psychedelic integration and transformational coach. He's talks about clinical research, micro dosing, the importance of preparation and integration. What would you, Greg, you know, like to share about how you got into this field, and what about it is makes it so passionate for you?

Greg Lawrence 1:36  

Wow. Well, I mean, I got into it through experience about six years ago. Well, I should back up and say that I use psychedelics in my late teens through my late 20s. And unfortunately, in my late 20s, I also got mixed up with hard drugs, my life spiraled out of control pretty quickly. So I managed to scrape myself off of the bottom of the barrel and quit drugs, cold turkey, everything except cannabis cannabis, which I've used for many years after that, when I moved away from where I was, I stopped using everything but cannabis, and I live basically a suburban lifestyle for about 25 years. And about six years ago, my life got turned upside down through personal tragedy. I realized at that time, I had a lot of unresolved childhood trauma I hadn't dealt with, and I basically been hiding for a long time. So I started working with a psychotherapist, personal coach, and somewhere in there where I was smoking cigarettes and trying to quit, and my coach said, I think soul assignment helps with that. So I got some magic mushrooms and took them and had some epiphanies about what was going on in my life and the causes of the misery I was experiencing. And I thought, okay, now that I know where that came from, everything is going to change. And in about four or five weeks or so everything was just the same as it was. That happened a couple more times, then I stumbled across the concept of integration, and started going to integration groups, integration circles. And that's where we take the lesson from the experience, we try to integrate it into our lives by making some sort of shift or change in our lives. And I became fascinated with this. So I started studying it, I began leading the integration circles, I started working with people one on one, I eventually got certified as a psychedelic integration coach. And I've been a full time coach for almost three years now. But it was because it was something that was very helpful to me, you know, I was able to take the experiences that I had, and make some changes and shifts in my life, don't get me to where I am now, which is about 180 degrees from where I was six years ago, is a very angry, impatient person who wasn't very good in relationships, all that's changed for me. So it's a personal passion. And, you know, it is my passion to help pass this on to other people. I think this can be life changing.

Ari Gronich 3:48  

That's awesome. So, you know, tell me, what's the difference between the recreational use of psilocybin or other psychedelics and the, the therapy side of utilizing these medicines for taking care of emotional trauma and releasing, and so on, because, like you, I was a child doing certain things and and I find that as an adult, those experiences are much richer and greater and create more of a permanent change for me. So talk to us a little bit about the difference between the recreational side and the therapeutic side.

Greg Lawrence 4:40  

Well, I first want to say that I you know, there are a large part of the psychedelic community that uses the word recreational sort of a pejorative, like that's not the way you're supposed to do it. I don't believe that there should be any shoulds around psychedelic and I realized I use the word should to say that but Once you are safe and responsible, which means that you are not bringing harm to yourself or another person, I think if you want to experience a museum, a movie, some movie, or some food and other person's body nature, whatever you want through the lens of a psychedelic, I think that that's fantastic. People should be free to explore their consciousness in the world in a way that they want. But there is sometimes a thin line between recreational use and intentional use, I'll call it and maybe a little bit thicker line between intentional use and therapeutic use. So unintentional use, we spend a lot of time setting intentions, we try to pay attention to what's going on during the experience, and we try to integrate it afterwards. And therapeutic use, it might go a little bit deeper, we might actually use eyeshades and headphones with carefully curated music, we make sure that the person is prepared ahead of time for the experience, and especially prepared for any possibly disturbing images or memories, or anything that might scare or upset them. Because that's a very important part of the process for them to understand that that is part of the process. And it's something to be experienced, not something to run from. And I would say in therapeutic use when you talk about things like the clinical studies that are going on with places like maps, and in places like NYU, Johns Hopkins, and so forth. There is a significant therapeutic component on each side of each experience. So you will have therapy beforehand, to prepare you sort of explore what's going on with you and see what your issues are a lot of therapy after the experience to help integrate that experience.

Ari Gronich 6:35  

What about therapy during the experience, that's

Greg Lawrence 6:38  

known as psycholytic therapy. And that's not something that's done very much. There are a few places in Europe that do this with MDMA. It's not something that's done much with psychedelics like LSD or psilocybin. They don't really lend themselves to therapy. And really, there is a theory that there's an inner healer within, you know, within you, that knows the issues better than anyone else could try to guess. So sometimes I started with MDMA, but in the vast majority of experiences, people have an internal experience, and then they do the therapy before afterwards. And before.

Ari Gronich 7:11  

Got it. So one of the things that I utilize in my practice has been psychedelic therapy with bodywork and deep emotional release breathwork. And I've, I've always found that the issues are in the tissues. And when you combine those two things, you can really, really get permanent clearing of the issues that are in the tissues, because you're breathing it out, the body's being moved through it, the places where the traumas are, are being literally touched. So there's like a spotlight on those places. And then the medicine does its work of allowing those things and those traumas to release. Have you ever experienced that or heard of that kind

Greg Lawrence 8:10  

of work? Yeah, I do energy work myself, I practice personally trauma release exercises. So I realize there is both a psychological and a somatic component to the issues that people are facing. And that trauma is held in the body. So in the work that I do with people in preparing them or helping them to work with these medicines, because what I do is I work with people before and after, as an integration coach, I help prepare them for any experience. And I help them integrate the experience the middle part they do on their own or with someone else. So in my preparation, sometimes I try to determine which mode which would be better for a particular person. Because there is a way from disconnecting from the story in your head, and just experiencing what's happening in your body as issues come up. There is a way of diving deeper into the story in your head to see what kind of resolution you can get. And there's a combination of the two where you can be experiencing something and your body will you know, you can experience the past in your body while you're in the present in your head. So all those can be very helpful. But yeah, there's a significant somatic component. I think, too, especially trauma.

Ari Gronich 9:18  

Absolutely. I've I think Burning Man was my first experience with psilocybin in a therapeutic healing, you know, manner. And I think I was about 2627 at the time. And we had somebody who couldn't hear out of her ear since she was like five years old, and about a two and a half, three hour session. We were done. She could hear out of her ear. It was really fascinating. And that's what interested me originally in psilocybin and psychedelics as therapeutic healing tools. What about micro dosing? And I know this is becoming especially within like the Silicon Valley crowd, it's becoming a pretty regular thing to do micro dosing of these, these things, what are the effects? What are the side effects? if any? What is it that you're experiencing with a micro dose of a psychedelic?

Greg Lawrence 10:27  

Well, I just first want to say that micro dosing has exploded outside of Silicon Valley. So I take monitor and take part in a lot of online groups, and a lot of Facebook groups and online forums that are specifically about micro dosing. And there are people coming to these groups every day, dealing with issues like anxiety, depression, OCD, traumatic brain injury, you know, childhood trauma. And these are people who aren't even considering using psychedelics in the classic sense, they just want to take advantage of the effects of micro dosing. And I also want to say that there is scant scientific evidence that micro dosing actually has an effect just because there's been almost no research done on it. It's still in process. But you know, for all we know, a lot of these things are the placebo or placebo effect, if they are fantastic. Yay, placebo, I say. But micro dosing is the consumption of sub perceptual amounts of generally, LSD or psilocybin, people microdose all kinds of substances, but we're generally talking about LSD or psilocybin, when someone says micro dosing, the effects are generally not felt. And that's kind of the idea. You know, psychedelics are sort of a cathartic experience, they do what therapy does, they bring the unconscious to the conscious, so difficult emotional and psychological material surfaces very gradually in therapy, and eventually, we feel kind of crappy, we process these things, and we feel our feelings, we get it out of us. psychedelics want to do this very quickly. Micro dosing does this very gradually in the background, so there's not too much for some people. It's very comparable to taking a nootropic or a smart drug, where you just feel kind of sharp, on together, it's very easy to forget that you've microdose when you're doing classic micro dosing, you might just feel good, I'm just having a great day. And then oh, yeah, I did a micro dose this morning, you might just feel good, better or not as bad. Some people see pretty immediate relief from things like anxiety and depression, symptoms of OCD. And some people you know, conditions like bipolar, usually contraindications for using psychedelics, but people with bipolar disorder, or micro dosing and getting some benefit from it. I want to say that people with those disorders should use caution when they're micro dosing, you should always do always do plenty of research and find out what the risks are. But so far, as far as drugs go, physiologically, psilocybin is one of the safest substances you can take. You know, I've seen a chart when they show the relative safety of different drugs based on things like emergency room visits, 911 calls, psilocybin is at the bottom, it's underneath aspirin and tobacco, it's one of the safest things physiologically that you can take. So taking in minute quantities. So far hasn't been shown to have any ill effects physiologically. Now, micro dosing can do things like bring emotions close to the surface. Some of these things are dose dependent. So some cautions I give people is that if you do a little bit extra, if you go somewhere between a micro dose and a regular dose, you could get stuck in a sort of an uncomfortable space where things are starting to come up. But you never get to that place where they start processing. So you can just be sort of jittery, anxious, nervous, sweaty, just uncomfortable in general, emotions can be close to the surface. So in these forums, I regularly see people saying things like, you know, expected micro dosing to be sort of calming to me, but I find that I'm very irritable, I'm crying for no reason, I'm angry at my children having trouble controlling myself. I'm sweating a lot. I'm not comfortable, I'm not sleeping, I'm too tired. Many of the times I see these things are dose dependent, people are just taking too much. So it's generally advisable to take about one 10th of a normal dose that is, in general, somewhere around 10 micrograms of LSD, although people do less or more, and it's somewhere around 100 or 200 milligrams of psilocybin, although people do less or more, it's got a lot to do with tolerance, your specific conditions, your environment, etc. There's no standard microdose just like there's no standard dose of psychedelics,

Ari Gronich 14:35  

right, is it is this kind of a medicine weight reliance, like if somebody is heavier or lighter, or does that not matter much

Greg Lawrence 14:47  

psychedelics have very little to do with body mass, weight, height, etc. They're sort of like psychotropic drugs like antidepressants. There's a standard dosage but you know, three grams of mushrooms can really send a 300 pound person into the sky and do nothing for 100 pound person depends on the person's receptors, their own tolerance, etc.

Ari Gronich 15:09  

Okay, so what is the chemistry that happens in your brain when you are micro dosing and when you're macro dosing,

Greg Lawrence 15:17  

micro dosing, we don't have as much evidence about exactly what happens when you take the medicine. But for a standard dose of say serotonergic, psychedelics, LSD, psilocybin, mescaline. They are serotonin agonists. So they will latch on to your serotonin receptors. serotonin is known as the feel good neurotransmitter, it's the feel good chemical. These substances don't release more serotonin into your system, they just kind of mimic serotonin. Once they grab onto that receptor and start mimicking serotonin, what happens on the other side is not exactly clear, physiologically. There are a lot of technical things that happen. What basically happens though, is that difficult things start to try to come to the surface for you sort of the opposite of the action of an antidepressant antidepressant takes those difficult feelings and tries to just push them down here, so you don't have to deal with them. psychedelics do the opposite. We try to bring them to the surface so that you'll experience them process them.

Ari Gronich 16:17  

So it sounds like it's basically turning the light into the dark, you know, like you put a flashlight in where you've been dark. And so all of a sudden, you can see what is going on and spotlight it

Greg Lawrence 16:30  

correct. Yeah, psychedelics are what are called nonspecific amplifiers of consciousness. So what will often happen is something that is bothering you that you've been suppressing something you didn't realize was important to you. Something that is a problem for you that you've been ignoring, will come to the surface. I'll give you a perfect example of this. young man who who called me he had had a difficult journey on mushrooms. And the following happened to him. He grew up in a small town in the Midwest at the same friends all of his life, went through grade school all the way through high school with them. good looking guy, very athletic, very popular, always had girlfriends ton of friends. He said he never had to try too hard to do anything. The major he wanted to take in college was different than that of his friends. So he ended up going out of state where he knew nobody. Suddenly the guy is 19. And he has no friends and no prospects and doesn't know what to do. He realizes I've never had to make friends from scratch. It just always has been there. And he's kind of lonely and a little bit desperate. Luckily, he finds these three guys were just great. he clicks with them immediately. They like to joke around with him. They include him as part of their gang. And he's hanging out with these guys for a couple of weeks. And they say, Hey, we're going to go to the forest and do mushrooms this weekend, would you like to go? He says, Yeah, I'd like that. He's been hearing about this, he wants to try it. They go to the forest, they find a spot, they take the mushrooms. And about 45 minutes later, while they're all talking, this guy realized this, these are terrible people. They're not joking around with me, they're insulting me and where I'm from. They're racist or misogynist. They're just not the kind of people I want to be with at all. So he spent about three hours being around these people who made him feel very unsafe. That was the bad experience he had. But that just shows you what happens in our everyday consciousness. There are things that bother us every day that we just sort of put to the side, we take these substances, and it says, Hey, this thing is bothering you, you really need to look at it. Because everything looks fine on the surface. But there's a feeling in us that something's just not right, that might be might manifest as anxiety, depression, just a feeling of unease. Being stuck having to deal with procrastination, maybe I'm not getting along in my relationships with people. These all cause issues, but they're things that we're suppressing and putting in the background. psychedelics will bring those things into light for us, as you say.

Unknown Speaker 18:55  

Awesome. So

Ari Gronich 18:57  

let's, uh, you know, you're talking about college. So I have kids in college. They obviously have had experiences the kids that I know, with, with psychedelics, with other kinds of things. But as an as a college student, who's experimenting with their minds, what are the precautions other than, like, you kind of brought it up with making sure that the space and the people you're with are safe for you, but what are the other kinds of precautions that you would give to kids that are attempting to experiment with these things and may or may not really know the power of them?

Greg Lawrence 19:46  

Yeah, firstly, I would say that although I am what I would consider to be a psychedelic advocate psychedelics are not for everyone. So I would advise anyone to do their research and find out if they have any psychological, medical or physical contrary indication. Because they don't work for everyone. if they have any significant psychological issues, they might want to also look up a therapist in case anything difficult comes up so they can work that out with them afterwards, you definitely want to pay attention to a separate setting. So set is my psychological set, how I'm feeling, how things are going for me what kind of problems Am I might have right now. And setting is my physical studying, including the people around me. Now I said psychedelics are amplifiers. If you are going to do psychedelics, if you're going to be around someone that you don't like, just be aware of the fact that that's going to be amplified for you. And that might make things make things very difficult, should always be comfortable with the people you're going to do psychedelics with, if you're going to do them with other people, I would say that you should do them with at least a sitter, if you have not experienced these substances before, in case you need assistance in some way.

Ari Gronich 20:55  

Kind of like my driver.

Greg Lawrence 20:57  

I'm sorry, what

Ari Gronich 20:58  

kind of like a designated driver.

Greg Lawrence 21:00  

Yeah, should be someone who has experience with psychedelics, preferably, so that they understand what you're going through, who knows what to do and what not to do. Because once having a difficult time, sometimes it should be talked through it and not down or out of it. Sometimes people have to process something. So telling someone that a difficult memory wasn't that bad is not what you should be doing. When something's going on, someone's going through that experience, holding their hand, getting them some water, keeping them safe, all allowable things, but don't try to characterize their experience. But you just want someone who's going to be there in case you need help in some way. And I would also say that intention setting is very important. You know, you don't go in trying to control the experience. But do do think you do think at a very high level. What is it? I'm trying to get from this experience? Where am I going? What am I wanting? Okay, so

Ari Gronich 21:49  

what you're saying, what I'm hearing, is that you want to be really cognizant of what it is that you're doing. And make sure you've researched enough. Make sure that you have somebody here somebody in your space that's safe, and somebody that's in your space that is already done what you're about to do so that you have a guide,

Unknown Speaker 22:24  

basically,

Greg Lawrence 22:24  

correct. Yeah, rather than a guide, I would say someone just to be there to make sure that you're safe.

Ari Gronich 22:30  

Okay. So Iosco is a little bit different you have to have kind of a guide, right? Have you had any experience with Iowa SCA and and what's your take on kind of the differences between the two

Greg Lawrence 22:46  

you know, psychedelics end up taking you to sort of the same place in a different way, you know, it's getting to the same location or different vehicle, I have lost could can have a very heavy body load. Meaning I feel it in my body that often causes people to purge in one way or another that made through faith through vomiting, diarrhea, sweating, crying, what have you, but I watched it can be a very difficult experience to have a very difficult substance to work with. But also all the psychedelics can is generally done like you said, in a group setting, under the supervision of a shaman or a facilitator. shaman tends to be an indigenous person who has a lineage she's learned from facilitator, someone who's learned how to work with the medicine. And they generally there's generally live music played in the form of Ikaros. Those are songs that were written by Alaska for I Alaska that have a lot of power can help guide the music through your body or help get you through difficult situations. So I mean, my cautions would be the same as they would with any other psychedelic, make sure it's for you. And there are some physiological considerations with Iosco too. There are certain foods you shouldn't be eating and certain medications you can't be taking before you do Iosco that should all be given to you by a facilitator or shaman before you ever sit with the medicine.

Ari Gronich 24:09  

Right? me what I guess what I was trying to get two was the chemical difference. I know Iosco is being used quite a lot in some places to get people clean off of heroin and opioids. And so I was just trying to draw out some of the chemical differences between what happens in your brain for when you know, with these different substances, because each one they take you to fairly similar places. However, the chemical storm that happens in your brain might be a little bit shifted.

Greg Lawrence 24:48  

You know, I uh, wasco is a combination of DMT, a DMT, containing plant dimethyltryptamine and an MA o inhibitor because there's an enzyme in your called mono amine oxidize, and that will kill certain things to keep it from getting into your body, including DMT. So when you take an MA o inhibitor, it allows the DMT to be metabolized by your body. So chemically, it's probably a little bit different, but how it works psychologically, what it does, once you get in you is different for every person. You know, we all have defenses built up against words. So if I don't think that I am deserving of love, literally everyone around me until they tell me that I am, but it just doesn't get through. So psychedelics will do some very novel and unusual things with us, they might play games or simulations, they might make us feel a certain way provoke emotions in us, they might show us stories or metaphors, or myths of some kind. They may show us our own lives from a detached perspective, but they'll do a lot of things to get messages through to us that we wouldn't get otherwise. So what happens when you take a psychedelic of any kind is different for every person every time they take it?

Unknown Speaker 26:02  

Absolutely. So

Ari Gronich 26:04  

let's go through some of the different psychedelics and what what you might want to take each one for, like, I know this big trend and combo are frog medicine. You know, you have pod masculine, you know, LSD, MDMA, to CB, the Alexander Shogun medicines. So what is it that each one like if you were to have a menu item, you know, you go into a restaurant and you have menu, and it you know, has all the different kinds and then it would have a description on the, you know, the thing that you might want to take this one for versus this one versus that one.

Greg Lawrence 26:50  

I don't like assigning a purpose, except that I will say that there is you mentioned, heroin and opioid addiction. So there's a substance called Ibogaine. This is the active ingredient and a root bark from West Africa called Iboga. It's an extremely powerful psychedelic, it may leave someone basically immobilized for 24 to 36 hours. It's very hard on the heart and the liver, people actually have to have an EKG and a liver panel done before they undergo this treatment. But Ibogaine has been shown to be very effective in addressing opioid and heroin addiction, because it goes into resets the receptors and it sort of takes you through a journey that lets you see what happened to get you where you are. And it usually almost eliminates or completely eliminates any desire to the substance once you come out. So that is a very powerful substance that is used for psycho spiritual purposes and in addition to be using for addiction, but it's a very powerful and sometimes dangerous substance, there have been hundreds of deaths from people who should not have been taking that substance due to something like a cardiac condition or medication they were taking or some sort of drug that they were on that they shouldn't have been at the time. There is a substance called Five m e o DMT. That is a substance that is a short acting, you know, 15 to 45 minutes, but in a sufficient dose it it produces an instantaneous ego death. So, the thing that makes me think that I am Greg and not a part of the universe sort of disappears for a while not become one with everything. There is also a danger sometimes of doing too much of that substance, people can become ungrounded unbalanced and, you know, a lot of integration and a lot of care afterwards, you know, having your world sort of taken apart in front of you and then put back together can be difficult to times. I would say the facilitation is key in that you should always work with the skilled experienced facilitator when working with that substance.

Ari Gronich 28:51  

There is in in DMT

Greg Lawrence 28:53  

that is another short acting rapid onset psychedelic that you think through vaporizing through smoking basically, and works instantaneously for anywhere from 15 to 45 minutes, and is highly visual and psychedelic. People have reported things like talking to entities or entering into other universes living other lifetimes to very powerful substance. Then I would sort of stack in the classic psychedelics. Oh, excuse me, I should mention MDMA. MDMA is sort of methamphetamine. But it's an pathogen. It's a heart opener. It's what's being used in the in the studies for clinical treatment resistant PTSD for veterans by maps, the multidisciplinary Association for psychological for scientific studies, excuse me, psychedelic studies. Sometimes when people have severe p. e, it's hard for them to even talk about what happened to them without being thrown back into the event. Under the influence of MDMA, MDMA, people are actually able to view their trauma with their fight or flight response. Once down, it slows down the amygdala, lets you see your trauma back then. And you hear and understand that that was then and this is now in your safe now. And helps people rapidly get to the point where they can start working with therapists on the issue once they've spoken about it.

Ari Gronich 30:14  

So let's say someone that I would, sorry, let's say somebody was, somebody had been sexually abused, right? When they were a child. And now they're, they're experiencing relationship issues and things and, you know, they, they feel like they've gotten over that experience that doesn't necessarily trigger them, they can talk about it, and so on and so forth. But then, they still are having relationship issues, is that something that might be of support for somebody who's experiencing that kind of a trauma over and over and over again, in their minds?

Greg Lawrence 30:58  

Well, I do want to point out that all of these studies, for instance, with maps, these are called MDMA, it's called MDMA assisted psychotherapy. So it's never a therapy assisted psychedelics and psychedelic assisted therapy, the therapy is a very important component, someone with the kind of issues that you're describing might benefit from working with a coach or a psychotherapist, but certainly a substance like MDMA, or a substance like a classic psychedelic of LSD or psilocybin, something like that could be useful to someone if they're prepared to use it in an intentional way. And sometimes they don't even have to be prepared to use an intention away, sometimes things come to you and those experiences, but it's very important. Once again, to integrate those experiences afterwards, I can be shown the exact moment when my trauma was born, that doesn't necessarily do anything for me to resolve that trauma that doesn't fix the patterns that are resulting from that.

Unknown Speaker 31:54  

So what does

Greg Lawrence 31:56  

psychotherapy does, you know, I work with a combination of I'm not a therapist, I'm a coach, but I work with cognitive behavioral therapy, neuro linguistic programming, and a number of personal and spiritual development disciplines to help people break patterns to make changes in their lives to basically have choices. You know, when something happens to us, we tend to dig a very deep neural pathway that says, This is what I'm going to do when this happens to me, I'm going this way, it just becomes automatic after a while, it's like putting on a seatbelt in the car, you don't think about it anymore. It's just what happens. What we have to do is use the same mechanism that Doug that grew to dig another group, so at least you have some choice sometimes, so that you are more mindful and aware of what you are doing. So that you have another choice besides the automatic choice that used to happen all the time.

Ari Gronich 32:43  

All right, so do we know if those neural pathways actually atrophy or if they, the trauma, neural pathway atrophies if you create the other, the other?

Greg Lawrence 32:56  

You know, one of the things that happens in the aftermath of a psychedelic experience is called neuroplasticity, that is the ability to easily form new neural pathways, new habits, patterns, new ways of thinking, being and doing. So if you can take advantage of those and you start using those new neural pathways, yes, after a while the other ones sort of fade and well, sort of atrophy. They're not guaranteed to go away. But that is something that happens in that process.

Ari Gronich 33:22  

Gotcha. So do you think that it's, I know, you're an advocate. But let's say there's a lot of trauma obviously, going on in the world right now. And, you know, my personal belief is that if more people were to experiment with these kinds of ways of doing therapy, we'd have a lot less problems and a lot more understanding and love and care for, you know, our communities, because we'll have a much broader perspective. So I know it's starting to get a little more mainstream to legalize in some of the liberal states. But you know, what, what is? What is the reason why we would want psychedelics to remain illegal? Because there's got to be at least one reason. And then what are the reasons that making them legal, are going to be beneficial? And then the last part of that is, should the legality be therapeutic only or should it be a combination of recreational and medical?

Greg Lawrence 34:42  

Well, there is an answer to one of your questions in your question, and that is, what is the problem with them becoming legal? The problem that some people have with them becoming legal is that they are sometimes and so let's take the map studies. If the map the map studies are in phase three, now clinical excuse Using MDMA assisted therapy to treat treatment resistant PTSD. Now, if those studies go well, in phase three, this could be a prescribed herbal treatment in 2021, or 2022. When that happens, that means that MDMA will be available by prescription in a very lengthy protocol, that's probably going to cost somewhere between 15 and $20,000 per round of treatment. Okay, so now we have MDMA, sort of in the public domain, but still not available to me. I'm a very strong believer in cognitive liberty. There is no truth to the assertion that psychedelics have no medical value, that they are highly prone to abuse and all the other reasons that were given to make them schedule one. They were made schedule one for various reasons, but not for the reasons that were stated by the government. I personally believe one of the very big reasons they were taken out of the public domain is because people were walking off the battlefield in Vietnam. In a country that is built on consumerism, a country that is built on capitalism has to have an operating army, and can't have people on mass saying, I am not going to a foreign country to kill people for you. That's one reason they were taken out of the public domain. So I believe in cognitive liberty, I believe that these substances that do not harm me should be available, available to me, with all the usual precautions, and so forth. I mean, the things that I can go and buy right now from a store, I can buy alcohol, as much as I would like to drink myself into a stupor and kill myself with it. It's almost impossible to do that with psychedelics, but those are not available to me. So, this is one problem that people have with legalization as legalization sometimes leads to medicalization, I can get these to a doctor, I can get them through an authority, I can get them through an intermediary. Mushrooms grow in the ground, no one should be able to come between me and a substance that grows on the ground. That helps me to explore my own consciousness. That's my belief. Okay, next part of that question. Next part was, what is the problem with legalization you asked? Right, but

Ari Gronich 37:10  

the medical versus recreational? So I'm asking I get your belief. But I'm asking what are the reasons to go against that belief that you have what what is what is the excuse? What is the reason for keeping that substance away? Is

Greg Lawrence 37:31  

there a do want me to take the counter position?

Ari Gronich 37:33  

Is there Yes, I do. Is there a danger of having a psychological break? This is some of the fears that people are having. So yes, I want you to take a contra position to your own position.

Greg Lawrence 37:45  

The counter position is that psychologically, that psychedelics should be used with caution, they are not for everyone, everyone is not going to be prepared to use them. And things like bad trips usually come from people who shouldn't be taking psychedelics, who has some sort of contrary indication, we're not properly prepared for that experience. They can unbalance people, they can throw them into a state of unease, and they can bring up latent mental illness people. Someone with dormant psychosis can have that activated by a psychedelic experience. So yes, there should be caution education and a big wrapper of harm reduction around these substances.

Ari Gronich 38:23  

So basically, what I'm hearing is that any of the reasons why you would not want to do something, are for the reason of safety. And most of that safety can be alleviated with education.

Greg Lawrence 38:45  

I believe that, but I also believe that there's nothing that's forever. So I hear memes, like, you know, all politicians need to take LSD or cops need to do a walk or something like that. That's not how it works. These things are amplifiers of consciousness and of ego. So there are plenty of racist and nationalist who takes psychedelics and it strengthens their worldview. It doesn't automatically fix everything for us. Someone has to want to heal, they have have got to have a desire to change. If you want them to change the use of these substances, they don't automatically change people for the better. There are plenty of people who have their ego strengthened through the use of psychedelics. So they're definitely not a panacea. They're not for everyone. They should not be used universally. Some people just aren't going to like the experience. Some people don't wish to be introspective. Some people like themselves the way they are and they don't want to change or feel that they need to. So these are for people who believe that they might work for them. Okay,

Ari Gronich 39:44  

so the next question becomes what age should somebody start the process of experimenting? Because I know a lot of kids 16 should do you know 14 1516 in high school, They experiment, yet their brains are not fully developed yet. Is there damage that can be done for the young, developed brain? Or is that just a thing that we can ignore as long as they have the education of what it's for?

Greg Lawrence 40:17  

Well, I don't think it's a thing we can ignore him. We're a society that already puts age limits on certain substances and certain activities. So I don't think we can just take something that is a as potentially powerful as a psychedelic and take the brakes off of it. I think you're correct, that brains are not fully formed until someone's in their early 20s. Now I'm going against my own experience. I was doing psychedelics when I was 1617 years old, I believe I benefited from that. But since I've already done that, I don't have to prove anymore. No, actually, I would say that there's no definitive proof that there is harm to a person from doing psychedelics of a certain age. But there's no proof that there's not, we don't know what we don't know. So if I were to personally have to make the rules, I would say I would exercise caution in that area. Exactly where I draw that line, it's hard to say,

Ari Gronich 41:07  

okay, so do you think that your early childhood use of the psychedelics was a gateway to the harder drugs that you started to take afterwards? No, I

Greg Lawrence 41:17  

think that my trauma was a gateway to the harder drugs I started taking afterwards. And was probably one of the more sensible things that I did, you know, the drugs that I did later on helped me escape from reality. psychedelics helped to illuminate my reality. And for all I know, maybe the fact that I was doing psychedelics, becoming more aware of my issues, and not working through them, sort of tipped me into an area where I wanted to use other drugs. I have no idea.

Ari Gronich 41:42  

So I said, I want to play this out, because I, you know, the contrary. And the reasons for are as important, each thing is as important, right. So one of the issues that people have with marijuana is they think that it's a gateway drug. I believe that trauma, as you said, is the gateway to all bad behavior in general, trauma equals bad behavior, trauma, this trauma, that trauma and needs really, are the things that lead to the bad behavior, bad, bad results. So that's where the question comes in, is, I want to, I want both sides of the subject to be illuminated, so that if people decide I don't want this show to be a deciding factor for them, to either try or not try, right, I want them to have as much information as possible. But let me ask you this question. Because, you know, we're going through this amazing year. And I believe that, well, there's there's a lot of suicides that are happening, a lot of domestic violence that's happening, a lot of alcohol abuse that's happening during this quarantining and isolating, and I believe that psychedelics would help people who are faced with this isolation and looking for a reason to illuminate their, their traumas, because a lot of people are sitting in their trauma, and not really able to express it outwards, because they're just sitting there isolated and alone. So yeah, that's, that's what I where I want to go with that question.

Greg Lawrence 43:40  

Well, I would say that there are two sides to that coin. Definitely. So let's say in this, do you have people who are lonely who may not be in an ideal relationship? Um, if I become aware of the fact that there's not an ideal relationship, if that surface, if that is that is spotlighted for me through the psychedelic experience. Now, where am I? I'm not happy in the relationship. I'm going to have to go and be isolated somewhere I've sort of stuck I have limited choices right now. Same thing for someone in an abusive relationship. What do I do now? Now I'm in this time now, and then this restricted time, and I sort of stuck in this relationship. And that's been illuminated for me. I think people have more trouble now getting support for issues that may come up. So yeah, psychedelics may help some people in these situations, they may not be especially helpful in this time when people were restricted, locked down, and sort of stuck in certain situations with limited choices, and limited assistance. I think that's key always with psychedelic experience. Having some having some assistance beforehand, and afterwards, I think is key. That's where everything gets worked out. You can have things shown to you, and you can understand that something's a problem. And you can understand where your trauma came from. All these things can be perfectly obvious to you. But that doesn't change the fact that you we're reacting to what's happening in front of you based on past events. You know, changing those patterns and undoing those triggers is key to that.

Ari Gronich 45:09  

You know, it's interesting when I was dealing with detoxifying, I have a brain tumor that I've had since I was about seven years old, at least symptom wise, probably since I was born. It's a pituitary tumor. And it triggers all kinds of hormone imbalances and chemical imbalances in my, in my body. And so I was going through a detoxification, I lost about 140 pounds during that detox, even though doctors told me that I would never lose weight. And I would, at home, basically, take a dose of mushrooms, and then put on hypnosis, videos and brain training videos and things that are uplifting. I'd listened to Jim Rohn. And, you know, Les Brown and Tony Robbins while I was in those situations, and, and then I would have whatever explosion in a mirror that I would have for two or three hours of crying and staring in the mirror. And then I'd go back to Okay, let me integrate that a little bit. You know, it was it was an interesting experiment. Because typically, I've, I've not done that as a loan. Alone, you know, medicine, I haven't done the medicine alone. I've been in a group with a therapy, or I've done the therapy on people, but I haven't been in that process of doing it alone. I'm not sure that I would recommend it, but because it is really powerful and, and difficult. And I probably would have preferred to have had a guide or a, you know, somebody there with me that that was making sure I was okay. But, you know, what, what's your take on doing psychedelics alone. Other than microdose

Greg Lawrence 47:21  

That's true. I think most of the time when I do psychedelics, I do them alone. You know, there are ceremonial settings where there are other people around, but you know, I often do them alone. I'm used to them, I know their effects. I know all the safety protocols, losing my headphone here. And I will often work with music, I'll listen to something inspirational or something educational, or listen to binary old beats, or solfeggio tones or something like that. So yeah, I do about the same thing. I'll work through my issue. Sometimes it's more fun, sometimes it's more work. But once you know how you're going to react, once you know that you're safe at a certain level, once you're aware of all the risks, and so forth, once you know how to prepare and how to integrate, then, you know, I think working alone is great. And I usually caution people, if you're going to do psychedelics with people, make sure you know who the people are in your comfort level with them. Otherwise, you're going to be projecting things outward, that is going to distract you the whole time, and can make it a very unpleasant experience.

Ari Gronich 48:23  

So what happens when something comes up, that's really, really hard to process and you're alone in in that,

Greg Lawrence 48:30  

for me personally, or for someone else,

Ari Gronich 48:33  

for anybody, if they're in that position of I'm doing this alone, and I'm listening to these things, and then something pops in or comes up that is just like really, really, really hard to handle that it would be nice to have somebody there to help you go through it. Is that where you where you would say, time to call me kind of thing.

Greg Lawrence 49:03  

Someone can do that. But I would certainly prepare someone beforehand by telling them that there is nothing that happens in the psychedelic experience that happens for any other reason than for your healing. So something difficult may come up. And if it feels like it's too much, that's just your brain telling you that it's too much. The only thing that's going to happen is there's going to be a feeling in your body and a story in your head. That's all that's going to happen. And if it's really, really bad, there's a good chance that you're pushing it away or resisting it. You know, fear of pain is often much worse than the pain would ever be. So what happens is we have a painful experience, most of the time in childhood or when we're small. And then our brainstem center protects us and says you need to stay away from them. That's very, very scary, you know, for for better or worse, our brains think would be a very bad idea for us to change. So they protect these traumas very strongly. And they put all Have guards around them. Sometimes those guards are scary feelings, like it feels like if I start getting angry, if I start getting sad, I'm just going to be carried away somewhere, it's too much. The best thing you can possibly do when it feels like you can't possibly surrender to something that happens in the psychedelic experience is to surrender to it, to let go and to fall into it, you probably didn't take too much, you probably won't be stuck where you are, you're not going to die, you're not going to start stop breathing, you're not going to go crazy. Those are all things your mind wants to tell, might want to tell you to keep you away from this scary thing. But that scary thing is what's haunting you from the inside. It's the reason that you're looking for an answer, it's a reason things don't seem quite right to you. Like there's something that needs to be fixed, why there's just something wrong with me, and I just don't fit in somehow. And I'm always going to be a little bit deficient somehow. Those are the things causing these feelings on us. So there is no such thing as a wrong thought, emotion, memory or image. They can't be wrong, they can't kill you, they can be experienced, one of the best things you can do is feel the feelings that come up. We don't like to be mad, and we don't like to be sad. We have reflexes built up to tell us not to feel these things at any cost. Sometimes, this is what's happening when something very disturbing comes up in the psychedelic experience.

Ari Gronich 51:27  

So are there any good techniques? So say somebody is alone and and in their? in their journey? And something comes up? Are there any techniques that they can do in order to calm that down? or express it more so that it can be integrated and released? Or is that just an after session kind of thing?

Greg Lawrence 51:57  

No, I think beforehand, one of the best things you can do is to build a strong mindfulness meditation practice, where you are observing what is happening in your body and in your head. While it's happening while not being attached to it. build up a strength practice like this. And pretty soon you can be watching the changes and shifts and emotions of all kinds that happen to you, without guarding against them, or thinking there's something wrong with them. This in the psychedelic experience can be valuable, because then you can observe a feeling of terror in your body and realize it's just a feeling in your body. That's human emotions, our emotions are stories tied to feelings in our bodies. So if I can get to a place of just experiencing what's going into my body, and realizing there's a story in my head that I don't have to climb into that thought it can be there and it can be okay. But I don't have to be that thought in the moment. That can be very helpful. Saving, save that I would say, breathe deeply, and relax and realize that you're going to be okay. This is happening for you. It's happening for a reason. And you're going to be okay, you're actually resolving something from the past. Breathe deeply and relax and remember that you're going to be okay. And this is going to be over soon. You know, it's like you're going through a tunnel, it may seem dark, but there's light just up the head. Just hang on, you'll be fine.

Ari Gronich 53:20  

Awesome. So, in, in conclusion, what are the things like the top five things that you want people to get about this medicine or these medicines and how they can be used

Greg Lawrence 53:40  

for your good psychedelics can help us enjoy the world. And they can help us realize that really, for the most part, nothing's wrong. What's wrong is the way that we're thinking about things in our head. I mean, that's a common occurrence that people have. It's one of the deepest experiences I ever had was realizing at a very deep level, that right now nothing's wrong. I might feel like I need to do something or something needs to change or something needs to be adjusted. But that's just something that I've got, I have the impression of that's something that happens to me. But right now, nothing's wrong. So they can help us with things like radical acceptance. With realizing that right now, no matter how I feel, the feeling is okay. The problem is when I say Oh, shit, I feel that way. having anxiety is not a big deal. But as soon as I say, Oh my god, how do I get rid of this anxiety? Now I have a problem. Because I'm not feeling the anxiety. I'm not processing my feelings. I'm compounding with these things. I'm creating a neurosis. I'm making levels here. So I try to accept the anxiety if I can't, maybe I think there's a problem. I think I think maybe I can accept the fact that there's a problem with the anxiety. If I can accept that. Maybe I can accept the fact that I can't accept that. It's a process people should be prepared when they start to work with psychedelics, and they shouldn't be prepared to work with them material that comes up afterwards. Now I tend to overconfident about these things, someone might listen to me and say, Oh my God, I've been able a psychological material come up, it's going to be difficult, going to be scared, and then have the most beautiful experience of their life. That's also an option. I'm just here to caution because I think people are under caution. And they hear things like there's no such thing as a bad trip. So I want them to understand that if this happens during your journey, it's not a mistake. It's one of the things that happens to feature on a bug. With micro dosing, I'd like people to know that a lot of the side effects are unpleasant effects that they feel are sometimes dose dependent. So maybe look at your dose, there's a lot of misinformation online about taking as much as you can, or you're supposed to work through your anxiety or do some sort of breathing or listen to binaural beats to calm down. But really, you don't have to feel that way. You don't have to feel the dose microdosing is in the background.

Ari Gronich 55:58  

societal effects. So what do you think that the benefit to society itself is when people begin to experiment more and heal their traumas more from using psychedelics?

Greg Lawrence 56:21  

Well, I think it's very much like when people start down a path of personal or spiritual development. So there are two theories, I think you could say about when people start down that path. One is that I have 57 problems. And next week, I have 52. And a few weeks, I have 48. And then I have 37. And pretty soon I have 28 problems. And nothing outside of me has changed. All this changes my perception of what is a problem when I'm making a problem. Now, the other theory is that I still have those 57 problems, it's just not a problem that I have them anymore. But I would say the societal effect is that I stopped perceiving that I have so many problems, Rahm das said, the only thing that I can do for you is work on myself, the only thing that you can do for me is work on yourself. So when I have less problems, and you have less problems, there are two things that happen. The first thing is that there are less problems in the world. Now you and I each have you have 28, and I have 35. But there's not 114 anymore, so there are less problems in the world. The other thing that happens is now I know what kind of things I might want to address, because if I have 57 problems, and I go out trying to solve all of those, I'm trying to solve Phantom problems in there somewhere. I'm trying to solve something that just seems like a problem to me. The more I can cut that down, the more I can focus on what might be real problems outside of myself, what things what kind of things I might want to see change, what kind of things I might want to contribute to what kind of world I want to see. That's the societal. The major one.

Ari Gronich 57:54  

Very cool, very cool. So at the end of my interviews, I always ask the same question. And that's three to four tips, tricks, actionable steps that somebody can take immediately to create a new tomorrow today for themselves and activate their vision for a better world.

Greg Lawrence 58:15  

There are two that I would give. One is to be more mindful whenever possible. So think about what you are doing as much as possible and don't be on autopilot. Move the trash can put your keys in a different place, park your car somewhere else take a different route, when you go to the store, do anything you can to wake yourself up, brush your teeth with your non dominant hand, change your habits stop doing things the same way you've always done them because it has you on autopilot, and you are responding to your environment in a particular way, rather than thinking about what you're doing. The second is to cultivate an understanding of the fact that it's okay to feel your feelings that there is no such thing as a wrong thought or emotion. There is no such thing as a wrong thought or emotion. You don't have to act on them. But the fact that you're angry, the fact that you feel hatred towards someone, the fact that you are ashamed of something, all of those things are perfectly welcome. And they will resolve themselves. Trying not to resolve them is what keeps them in us and keeps us tied up. So learning to be mindful, feeling our feelings. untangle both of those things together a good mindfulness meditation practice would be very helpful.

Ari Gronich 59:30  

That's awesome. Yeah, sometimes I'll play ping pong left handed just to shift my my energy especially when i get i do i do that with tennis also, just when i when i get stuck in that rut, you know of playing and I'm, all of a sudden I'm in this perpetual motion of not doing what I know to do. I'll switch just to reset myself. So

Unknown Speaker 59:55  

I love that.

Ari Gronich 59:56  

I also like you know, writing with both hands At the same time, or getting hands to write with the opposite hand, works the other side of your brain. And those are all very good things. And I never thought of really trying to do that while while in a psychedelic journey, but that might be an interesting experiment, as well as is switching hands while in the journey, because that would trigger that other side of the brain that's maybe been non active or less active or deactivated. So it'd be an interesting experiment as well switch sides and see how well you write with the opposite side. You know, while in that in that space, because maybe cut girl for you,

Greg Lawrence 1:00:51  

I'd never thought of that. I definitely write better women psychedelics for some reason. My writings more legible. Is it is it? Yeah,

Ari Gronich 1:00:59  

I have doctor writing so. So you can, I can hardly read my own writing. When I get into doctor mode, and I'm filling out, you know, forms and things like that. But that's it. It's just an interesting thought that that you popped in my head was okay, so what if we switched hands? while experiencing that? Are we going to sweat? Because we're switching sides of brains? When we switch hands? Do we switch thoughts? Do we switch experiences? Do we switch to the things that we're not that are not in that automatic experience of life? You know,

Unknown Speaker 1:01:37  

I like that,

Ari Gronich 1:01:37  

how many people here in the audience have have experienced driving somewhere, and all of a sudden, you're on your way to work, but you were going somewhere else. But just that automatic response of I go this way, and I go to work, and all of a sudden you're like, Oh, wait, that's not where I was going? I

Greg Lawrence 1:01:57  

gotta go, sir. Yeah, or driving for two hours and realize you don't remember it? one bit of driving?

Ari Gronich 1:02:04  

Yeah, I always I, I've had that experience. I had that experience. Actually, once. When I did a vision quest, I was up on the mountain for four days, no food, no water, sweat lodges on both sides of the sweat. So I was completely dehydrated, and completely into that spirit world. And when I was driving back, I was up in the mountains of Ohio, going back into LA. And if you can imagine the mountains of Ohio, very rural kind of environment, and then you get on the freeway going to LA and it's a very different experience. And it felt to me like I was not driving at all, it felt like I was in the middle of a video game. And everything was coming towards me instead of me going forward. It was really fascinating. And then I was like, how did I? I'm like, I'm almost home. How did I get here? interesting experience. But yeah, I like it. Well, thank you, you know, so much for being on Greg. Is there anything? If anybody wants to get a hold of you? How did they get ahold of you? They want to experience or, or just learn more about this, this adventure of plant medicines.

Greg Lawrence 1:03:22  

And you can find me at psychedelicintegrationspecialists.com And on Facebook. I'm psychedelic integration specialists. And you can always reach me at [email protected]. It's a lot of typing, but it works. Awesome. Thank

Ari Gronich 1:03:35  

you so much for being here. I really appreciate you coming on. And, you know, this is a controversial subject. And it's not something that I actually took lightly when I decided to invite Greg on, I wanted to give you a perspective of what's possible in the world, when we stopped closing our minds and start opening them up to those to those possibilities, and very cautiously and very safely and with a lot of education and research. And I just I wanted I was I was just very sure that I wanted to have Greg on here because I wanted this perspective to to make it to the audience. So thank you so much for being here, Greg. I appreciate you. Remember, we're creating a new tomorrow today, take some actionable steps. Hopefully you have gotten a lot out of this episode. My name is Ari Gronich. I'm your host remember to LIKE subscribe, review rate comments, we want to start conversations about these things. And you know, just expand on the knowledge and expand on the shift. So let's create a new tomorrow today. And I'm your host, Ari Gronich, thank you so much for being here. And we'll see you next time. Thank you for listening to this podcast. I appreciate all you do to create a new tomorrow for yourself and those around you. If you'd like to take this information further and are interested in joining a community of like minded people who are all passionate about activating their vision for a better world, go to the website, create a new tomorrow.com and find out how you can be part of making a bigger difference. I have a gift for you just for checking it out and look forward to seeing you take the leap and joining our private paid mastermind community. Until then, see you on the next episode.