Jaap van der Wal is a phenomenological embryologist who is looking for the soul via the embryo and teaches about this all over the world through his Embryo in Motion project. In our conversation today we talked about the dualistic time we are living in and how we make the brain and/or the genes the most important “parts” of the body- how we conceptually consider the body a machine that comes in parts, and the way we separate the soul from the body. Jaap discusses how the embryo challenges the notion that we are our brains, that genes do not cause what happens in a body, that motion is primary and form is secondary- or that we are always a present tense alive process that is performing, and hence creating, the body , what fascia has to do with all of this, and that the body does not have a soul, it IS a soul.