Martin Shaw talks to rabbi, artist and author Dr. Ariel Burger, who reminds us that 'there are certain kinds of madness that really do constitute sanity in a world gone mad.' Ariel explains that this has been a theme in many of the Jewish mystical teachings that have inspired him, and he and Martin delve into how ancient stories help us to think about what is missing from the current conversation. They suggest that in times like these we must be open to the marginal and pay close attention to the periphery. When the conversation turns towards the current events in Gaza, Ariel asks that we consider one question: 'Is what you’re reading in the news going to help the peacemakers or not?'

Get 30% off Martin’s new book Smoke Hole at chelseagreen.co.uk using the code SHS30

Find Martin Shaw on insta @drmartinshaw; facebook @MartinShaw; www.drmartinshaw.com

Find Ariel Burger on insta @arielisdrawing; facebook @ArielBurger100;  https://arielburger.com/

A huge thanks to Ben Addicott for helping to produce this podcast

Violin music by John Matthias

Smoke Hole is published by Chelsea Green Publishing UK