Alison Simpson, CEO of the CMA and Susan Irving, CMO of Kruger Products L.P., discuss Susan's recent experience as a judge and her ongoing work as jury chair for the Cannes Young Lions competition in Canada at the 2023 Cannes Lions International Festival of Creativity.

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Welcome to CMA Connect, Canada's marketing podcast, where industry experts discuss how marketers must manage the tectonic shifts that will change how brands and businesses are built for tomorrow, while also delivering on today's business needs.

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Alison: So it is an absolute pleasure to welcome Susan Irving, the Chief Marketing Officer from Kruger Products to the CMA Connect podcast today. And Susan, I want to start by welcoming you back from Cannes, and thank you very much for joining us on CMA Connect, while I'm sure you're still managing jet lag and I suspect a very full inbox.

Susan: I'm still on a high from Cannes, it's a pretty magical place, but it's just an incredible, inspirational place to come back and really think about how we can do things differently here in Canada. But not too differently given how well Canadian agencies and partners have done.

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Alison: Absolutely. I'm very excited to speak with you today because you really have had two roles at Cannes, which give you a truly unique perspective. So obviously, you were a judge for the Lions sports, but you also were the jury chair for the Cannes Young Lions competition for Canada. And you've been on the Board and a key part of that organization for a number of years.

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Alison:

So, very excited to get your perspective on both of those.

Susan: I'm excited to be here and share the learnings because we're very proud of how Canada has done this year.

Alison: So let's start with the judging on the jury for the Entertainment Alliance for Sports.

Susan: I'll tell you right now, I was very excited to be chosen as a member of the jury, and I'm just thrilled that I was able to be in the Entertainment for Sports jury.

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Susan: And I'm going to tell you right now, it's not for the faint at heart. They don't tell you that you've got to judge 300 cases before you even get to Cannes. You take bias training, which is just incredible to really understand kind of your biases as you're judging. And you actually also have to judge work from your country and work from your company just so that they can see what's going on on the back end.

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So I'm very impressed at how they really have this down to a science to ensure that everything is equitable and fair. So you go through, we had about 300 cases before getting to Cannes. I had a month to get through them. I'd say at least an hour a day. I'd say it probably took 15 minutes per case. And then the week before Cannes, I had to judge another 83 for the short list.

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So definitely not for the faint at heart. Arrived on a Friday and then was in the jury room all day Saturday and all day Sunday. We actually had a fire at our hotel on the Friday night. So I was feeling good and went to bed early, but then was on a beach until 3am. But it was a good opportunity to get to know our fellow jury chair and the rest of the jury.

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But literally on the Saturday, we had 83 on the short list. We needed to get that short list down to 60 and then even say, you know, are there other cases that you potentially scored a 7 to 9 that could be added back in? And then so once you land on your 60, which took us til about 11:00 at night, the following day, we were in the room from ten until 11, and that was from your short list, deciding how many bronze, how many silver and how many gold, and what happens is, as you decide that you're going to have 20 that come up to bronze, of that 20, 10 come up to silver,

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and then of that ten silver, four, well, three go up to gold and then one goes up to Grand Prix. So it's pretty phenomenal. And I think what I learned, you know I always talk about the importance of diversity on a board or diversity on a jury, but the importance of diversity of thought. And what was really impressive about our jury was just hearing the change of perspectives, right?

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A case that you may have fallen in love with, listening to a different perspective from someone who comes from a different background and really understanding and having the ability and courage to actually change your mind. And that happened a lot in the jury room, which was really impressive. It was a bucket list for me. I think I've now met friends.

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We're still texting and talking about the experience and really bonded and saw each other over the past couple of days, either it was at the press conference or at the awards, and then just bumping into each other and still talking and texting and emailing today on ideas. So I feel like I've got industry friends forever.

Alison: And what are some of the key trends that you saw in the top work that was recognized?

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Susan: If I look at the trends, Cannes Young Lions asked all of us to send in our trends that we saw from the work. And I think there's three predominant trends in terms of the work. If you look at Dreamcaster from Michelob, Shout from Overstar or Leah, which is from Kotex. You know, the three big trends, I'd say the first one was the power sport to drive purpose and to do good in the world.

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Gone are the days of sports being just about slapping your logo and saying that you sponsor something. Brands are really trying to do good in the world and making a difference to ensure that there's an elevated purpose and you're actually leveraging the power of sport as a platform to make the world a better place. And you really saw that as a focal point in the work.

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The second part was D&I woven beautifully into the campaign. So if you look at the Dreamcaster case, it's such a relevant example of someone who's blind, who became a broadcaster, and with the technology of AI and what they were able to do, he was blind and was able to telecast and broadcast the game. And he's still doing that today.

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So, you know, although there was actually a diversity and inclusion category, many of the cases just did a heroic job of weaving diversity and inclusion just fluidly throughout their cases. And then the last one, you know, I think we keep talking about AI, but the use of AI in technology, if you look at Dreamcaster as an example, if you look at what they did with Nike and Serena, showing her competing against herself when she was younger to older, there is just this amazing technology and being used for the good.

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There was also a Colgate case where they leveraged rugby helmet equipment for people that were deaf. So it was just an amazing way of leveraging sport and making it more inclusive, and leveraging the use of technology to advance the sport as well and an effective use of AI. I think we're all afraid of AI a little bit right now, but some really brilliant examples.

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There's another cricket case from Martel, of which it was a famous cricket match, and they were able to use and leverage pictures to retell the match that happened years ago. So just some really brilliant examples of the three trends.

Alison: They're spectacular trends and great examples. And it's when you step back from Cannes and talk about being on the jury that it's clearly very prestigious.

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It's a great goal list. So congratulations on accomplishing it. And it can also be the perception that, oh, think about how much fun that will be and it's certainly inspiring. But the intensity to which you describe the amount of work required before you even hop on the plane to go and then the amount of work that you're doing there.

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And I'm sure fascinating debates and discussions. But there is an intensity to that that I'm sure has you with some global friends and fellow jurists from around the world that you will be friends with for a very long time. And extended great outcome, too.

Susan: Yeah, it really was a bucket list and something that just over overdelivered on my expectations.

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Alison: And I do love, obviously we come from a very diverse country, so it's such an important theme for us and certainly for our Canadian marketing profession. And some of the examples you shared of how other countries and marketers are really embracing that for the betterment of society and their businesses and brands is incredibly motivating as well. So thank you for sharing.

Susan: No problem.

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Alison: Now I'd like to hear some of the new learning that you're bringing back from Cannes that you're most excited to put into action.

Susan: Yeah, I'd say, you know, oh my gosh, there's so many trends. If you went to all the speaking engagements that I, I think sums it up probably with five as I went from speaker to speaker.

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And, you know, going to the awards shows that I think the number one, a lot of people keep thinking that creativity is gone or brand is gone. But what really shines through in a conference was this continued importance of creativity for good. And, you know, I think what we realize is brands can move the needle when it comes to making the world a better place.

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Now you've got to figure out where in the spectrum you fit and the voice that you have and when you should crawl, walk or run. But what I really noticed in a lot of the work, and I think we've all seen it was Always "like a girl", Dove "real beauty". The Leah Kotex spot that was that just won a gold is, you know, brands can really help drive and solve problems not just for consumers but for communities and our planet, you know, community initiatives, inclusivity and sustainability to make the world a better place are really here for the long run.

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What was evident to is, I think in past years and because that with Sick Kids did such an incredible job to I'd say, start the trend here in Canada. You know on the longest time it was the not for profits that seem to be having that voice and taking the risk versus the brands that were sticking with functional.

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And I'm not saying you shouldn't do functional advertising, but it felt like we really seen a step change in terms of now it's not just the not for profits that brands are figuring out their voice and where they can actually do creative for good in the world and still drive sales because they're leveraging the benefit and the brand can really play in that space.

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The second one we talked about technology, and AI are here to say I gave a couple of examples of some winning cases that we saw at Cannes, but it was very evident that although we have not fully figured this out yet, it really is time to dabble and play with it. I went to a session with Google. A couple of sessions were positive, couple of sessions where we're scaring you with A.I. and making sure that you really understand security and making sure that it's safe for the consumer.

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But at the end of the day, I think it's time for us all to start dabbling and figuring out how we can leverage AI to make our campaigns even better. The third one is, I'd say post-pandemic. Everything that's been going on recession, inflation, COVID. I think there's been a lot of seriousness in the tone of our advertising. But what you started to see this year was humor again.

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You know, there was a great M&M's case about their spokes people and they were fired and then returned. But you really do see that consumers are ready for some humor again. So I think we're going to see a lot more of that moving forward. The fourth one is media tactics and influencers. I mean, it was evident at Cannes this year.

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There is obviously the speeches at the palace, but the beats, I mean, tick tock, Snapchat, Pinterest, sports beats, influencers. Tons of the campaigns that were really leveraging the power of the different media tactics as well as influencers. So again, that's here to stay and something that we need to be leveraging. I mean, we've talked about how digital is on the rise, but really an effective use of the different channels.

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And then the last one was just to balance of, of the winning work. You know, Kraft Heinz is a great example of everything that Rethinkdid, but just a lot of balance between there was pure functional work, emotional work and then purposeful work. And there was a nice balance of everything. It wasn't just all purpose or it wasn't just all emotional.

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It was nice to see just that the balance of the work in terms of functional, emotional and purposeful.

Alison: That's right. I love your call it around air. You're absolutely right that it's changing so quickly. It's expanding so quickly that the best thing we can all do as marketers and as business people is get in and start playing and learning because it will ultimately make us better at what we do from a creativity perspective.

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But it has some broader benefits from an overall business perspective as well. And then your Shoutout around brand, too, right? Like so the pendulum has swung very much towards growth marketing and now brands are realizing that purpose-driven and brand-focused work also can connect with consumers and ultimately drive really strong business results as well. So having a balance of both, that's not one or the other really is how do they work together and the best interests of the people that they want to attract and drive the business forward.

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Susan: Exactly. I don't think you know, I think that when the Internet came right, when the Internet closed, when people were saying, oh, it's not here to stay, or when Facebook and Pinterest and Instagram, I mean, I think people got a little afraid about that shift from television to digital. But we figured it out. And I think I was kind of in that same, same place.

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You know, obviously there's a little bit of angst or what are the job losses going to be? But, you know, at the end of the day, there has to be a human behind it. So if you can start playing with it, figuring it out, and then from that point, figuring out the role that your brand plays with that and the campaigns because there's so much winning work out there.

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Alison: When I think of I, it's around the concern around, am I going to lose my job? I know I don't think you're going to lose your job. You could lose your job to a marketer who understands A.I. if you don't embrace it and have the curiosity and the desire to learn and start playing and experimenting and also do remember, it's like it's so new that none of us know where it's going to go.

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There's no really such thing as an expert in A.I. So it's early enough that we can all get in and learn together. So if you if you choose to stand on the sidelines, that's going to be the bigger issue.

Susan: Yes. So go play.

Alison: Go play, go play. Absolutely. So once again, Canada performed incredibly well on short lesson with Lions.

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And we also had some pretty remarkable Canadian firsts at this year's time. So I'd love to hear what you think Canadian agency and some marketers are doing and why we're doing some of the best work globally.

Susan: Such a proud moment for Canada. And, you know, I remember sitting at the Globe and talking to Andrew Saunders and as they were going through the numbers, I think we were fifth or six last year overall countries.

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And if you look at the fact that we're 10% of the US population, we still have far less awards than we do. And we we just we really do. We punch above our weight when it comes to our awards at Cannes. And it gives me goose bumps to say that this is our best year ever. I think the last was in 2018 or 19 where we had 52 lions and 141 short lists.

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This year we had 56 lions, which is the highest we have ever had ever. Two of those include our Cannes Young Lions, winners of which we won a silver in film and a gold in marketing.

Alison: The first ever gold

Susan: first ever gold. And we'll talk about that a little later in the in the podcast. But a total of just a couple of stats.

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A total of 13 agencies won 56 lions and total of which we won one Grand Prix, which was FCB. We won 12 gold, 22 silver and 19 bronze. And I think what what did I say? I think it was 2002 short list, which is just incredible. 25 shots landed on short lists, of which there was 202.

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So just amazing. And the top agencies that led the way for Canada were FCB, Rethink and BBDO. So just an incredible work

Alison: and a great mix of agencies, too. Like it's good representation of our marketplace and certainly the independents as well as some of the Canadian offices of big multinationals.

Susan: Exactly. Just a really nice balance of indie's. And we think I think also one indie agency, I think they came in second behind that, which was just incredible.

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So, yeah, Rethink just a powerhouse as well as FCB. And then BBDO did really well in terms of winning the most awards for a top campaign.

Alison: It was there's no doubt that we're a global powerhouse in breaking into the top five is pretty remarkable.

Susan: Yes, it's incredible. And just, you know, the rest of the agencies, I mean, 13 agencies won awards.

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So pretty incredible. You know, the second part of your question is just in terms of Canada, and I really believe and saw it, Canada is a powerhouse and we should be really proud of our marketers and our agency partners because, you know, if you see the amount of talent that we export to the US and internationally, I mean, people have thriving careers here in Canada, but, you know, we have marketers in the US that are CMO right now and VP's and head of agencies and now men and predominantly a lot of women and you know you look at Stephen Erlich who's leading Havas, you look at Diana Frost who's leading Canada and

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US for Kraft, Sofia Colucci who is now the CMO of Molson Coors, it's just phenomenal. But Jeff Klein who's in charge of Popeye's. I mean, there's so many Canadian talent that are that are out there that are doing great things in the marketplace. I think the other thing is, is that sets us apart is I really feel that Canadians just have the bravery and confidence and boldness.

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It's kind of this innate nature. And, you know, I also think it's our innate nature to be inclusive because of the country that we come from and that really showcased in the work. And then on top of that, really our ability to flex from functional to emotional to purposeful. And as I said, that was something that you really saw in our cases and our Lions that were winning work.

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There is there was a lot of great kind of one offs, amazing stunts and something that really drove the functional benefit or the, you know, the icon of certain brands. And then you really saw some very powerful emotional and purposeful work. What else? I think I think the other thing when I when I look at the why is, you know, Canada, sometimes you're you're pushed to just lift and shipped from U.S. or global markets.

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And I think when we have the opportunity either to create our own, we really try to really put our best foot forward. And I think that sets us apart. I think we're great collaborators and I think agencies and and clients work really well together in Canada. They're not afraid to doing smart, intelligent and brave work. And as I said before, given our Canadian population openness to creating community and culture, we're not afraid at all of embracing D&I, which we saw really shone on the awards at award stage this year at Cannes.

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Alison: It's amazing. And you've got a great out around how closely and how much better and more collaboratively Canadian agencies and clients work together. What do you think are some of the reasons behind that?

Susan: I think it's really just the nature of of Canadians being kind and and wanting to get to the best work. And, you know, unless you collaborate and really listen to different points of view, you're not going to get to that to that next level of work.

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So I think it's just innate in our nature. And, you know, I think I tease how we force all of our agencies to collaborate together. I think over the years you see a lot of a great idea can come from anywhere and then you play a position. And fundamentally, I just think Canadian marketers want to do really great world work and what agency partner doesn't want to do that as well?

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Alison: Absolutely agree. So in addition to your very intense judging role for the Lion Sports at Cannes, you were also this year's jury chair for the Cannes Young Lions competition for Canada. And I know you've been involved with the organization for quite some time and should be very proud of how Canadians young talent has progressed through your leadership. It also gives you a really unique view on our country's emerging creative talent.

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And it was certainly a very exciting way to end the weekend for Canada in Cannes last week. So I'd love to hear a bit about what excites you the most about Canada's young creatives.

Susan: Yeah, well, first I you know, I want to thank Mark Childs, who is just an icon in the industry from a marketing perspective. The Globe and Mail and Mark brought me on over ten years ago as a judge on this competition, and it is by far my favorite competition.

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I do a lot of judging just to see other works and figuring out insights and how it can apply to my business to make me smarter. But this one is just it's so amazing because it's, you know, you've got to be under 30 in this competition and it's the future generation of Canadian marketers. And I've been fortunate enough to be on it for ten years.

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Jury Chair For the past three, we've got a core group that are really pushing and doing the training so that we can be on the podium and thankful for the Global and Mail for being sponsor and advocates for can not just putting the judges forward, but also for this competition. And paying for our competitors to go. If you win the Canadian competition, then the top teams go to Cannes to compete on the global stage.

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And what was phenomenal this year is we had a couple of bronzes and in marketing we have never won. And this year we did win, which was just phenomenal. So Ryan and Mike from MLSE won gold, our team and film won silver, and then we were shortlisted for media and digital. So just a phenomenal year for our our young marketers and Mary Diver runs the creative and Kathy Collier is the jury chair for Media Survey.

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They do a phenomenal program as well when it comes to the competition. So just thrilled that they just did so well. It's funny when when we were sitting at the awards, Aaron, from Crowdiate, and I was standing there, he's been on the judging on the jury for four years as well.

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And when we saw that they were shortlisted, we thought that that was a bad thing, not a good thing. And so we thought they didn't win. But in hindsight, it really meant that they had a chance. So when we saw bronze, we were let down and we saw the short list, but then we saw the bronze and then we saw the silver, and then all of a sudden they won.

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I felt like I was a crazy soccer parent. As Aaron and I were jumping over tables and running through the crowd so we could get up there and take a picture and just barged in front of everyone. So that taking center stage to take a picture of our teams. So just I would say that the highlight of my week because you know, these guys work their butts off in Canada, they've got their own job, they do this case, they get a case that they've got to work on for 24 hours and basically the same thing in Cannes, they get a case.

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There's a charity. They've got to match their brand to solve the charities problem and then have 5 minutes to present. So it's a lot of work, but obviously a lot of reward.

Alison: Such an outstanding accomplishment just both so well for the young talent we're growing in this country.

Susan: Yeah, it's just incredible. So, you know, and if you look at it from a media perspective, from film, from digital, you know, I think across the agency mix and marketing mix, we should be very proud of of the talents that's going to be the future leaders of Canada and who knows US, local firms…

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The sky's the limit for what I can see from this young talent.

Alison: Absolutely. Now, given your long tenure and experience with that organization, I'd love to hear how young creatives and young marketers are approaching the profession and creative differently than other generations.

Susan: I'd say, you know, not that it's old. It's something that we should all be going back to.

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You know, I look at a lot of marketers and I think over the years we've gotten into the situation of putting our brands first about what's the brand problem, what's a brand problem with the brand problem? How are we going to grow our brand just because we're so trained that way? What I find different with this generation is they really are putting the consumer first.

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They're thinking about, well, what is the consumer problem? And then how can my brand actually help solve the problem for the consumer? And, you know, at the end of the day, that's how we are actually trained as marketers and just watching them compete and the ideas that they're coming up with, it's just so evident in terms of this generation as thinking about others first and then how my brand can solve the problem, which is what's winning it at Cannes right now here, if you look at the work from a purpose perspective, it really is putting the consumer first and then how my brand plays a role within that consumer group.

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Alison: It's a great shout out and I will applaud you from Kruger for part of your unapologetically human campaign platform and brand platform. Absolutely does a brilliant job of that. So kudos for that.

Susan: Thank you very. We're very proud of the work and so far, the comments coming in from the industry. But more importantly, we have customers and consumers calling in on our CRC hotline and everything has just been so, so positive.

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And you know, it's funny, sometimes you worry about not having a lot of product in the spot, but it's amazing how people are so emotionally drawn to it because they can relate to it and then see how our products are just so well and truly woven, if you will, into the spot.

Alison: Brilliantly done. So what advice would you offer to someone early in their marketing career?

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You can have great global experience. You're doing an amazing job leading a Canadian brand. So I'd love to end the podcast with your advice to someone earlier in the marketing career.

Susan: Yeah, I mean, I think the first thing is, is figuring out what you're passionate about. What is your your passion and really turn that into your career and you'll never work a day in your life.

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And whether or not you decide to you're a marketer really figure out kind of the type of marketing and the type of company and working for a company that has similar values to yourself. And then secondly, when we were younger, we're in such a rush. We're in such a rush to get promoted and just we're waiting to get to the top of the mountain versus enjoying the journey.

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And I know it's a cliché, but it's so true. Just enjoy every single day. And even if you're in a rotation in a role that you don't love, figure out what you're going to learn and what you're going to do differently and find the aspects of that role that you're know you can dig your teeth in and really love and make a difference because it will turn you into a better marketer.

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Alison: That's terrific advice. So one final question. Will you be back at Cannes next year?

Susan: I hope so.

Alison: I hope to see you there.

Susan: Yeah, I plan to be there. I think next year it'll be nice. You know, you don't typically judge two years back to back. I'll be excited to be there as jury chair for the Young Lions marketers and on the board advisory board for the Globe and Mail.

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But it'll be nice not having so much judging coming up to the competition. But you bet. I hope I actually want to go back next week. It was so phenomenal.

Alison: And I know you were in incredibly consume judging, so you didn't get a chance to take in many of the speakers and presentations. But of the ones you did get do did you have a favorite speaker?

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Susan: I'd say probably. Scott Galloway I was he's he's got a love hate relationship with. He's so candid. But I saw him speak a couple of times. The head of marketing at McDonald's was phenomenal as well. Obviously, P&G shares similar great case studies as well. So yeah, those would probably be some of my my top picks.

Alison: That's a great list.

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Well, Susan, thank you so much. I really appreciate you making time for us. And coming fresh off the plane from Cannes, I wish we could both go back next week, but I've thoroughly enjoyed the conversation and very much look forward to see you later this summer.

Susan: That sounds great. And let's plant those cans gathered here next year, Alison!

Alison: That's a brilliant plan.

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Thanks, Susan. Thanks, Alison. Thanks for joining us. Be sure to visit the CMA dot com and sign up for your free my CMA account. It's a great way to stay connected and benefit from the latest marketing thought leadership news and industry trends.