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Ep144: Save Money, Have Fun with John & JJ Checki
Today on the Book More Show, we're talking with John and JJ Checki. Father & son Financial Planning team based in Texas, and authors of a great book,_ Spend Time and Save Money_.
Their book is a fun introduction to their approach to retirement and helps people approach the subject from the perspective of living a great retirement rather than getting stuck in the weeds of financial planning.
We had the opportunity to discuss the process and the simplest way to create a book that starts the conversation. We also spoke about the idea that your book should be a living document rather than something carved in stone, allowing you to tweak and update it over time as you get real-world feedback on what resonates with clients.
The episode has some great ideas on how to use a book to find more leads, no matter what business you're in.
SHOW HIGHLIGHTS
LINKS
John Checki
Linkedin | YouTube | Facebook
JJ Checki
Linkedin | Bookclub
Checki Financial
Show notes & video: 90minutebooks.com/podcast/144
How does your book idea score against the 8 book building blocks we use here all the time: Book Blueprint Scorecard
Titles & Outline Workshops: 90MinuteBooks.com/Workshops
Ready to get started: 90MinuteBooks.com
Questions/Feedback: Send us an email
Extra Credit Listening: MoreCheeseLessWhiskers.com
TRANSCRIPT
(AI transcript provided as supporting material and may contain errors)
Stuart Bell
I have one. Welcome back to another episode of the Book more show. It's Stuart Bell here and today. I'm excited for how this is going to go. We just had a quick behind the scenes start to the conversation before we hit record, so this is going to be a really great conversation. So we've got John and JJ Checki with us today, who wrote a book. I actually got finished a couple of years ago now, but the reason I reached out is because, completely unrelated I called with some of the marketing firm and we were talking about books and and Mark I was talking to you said I was talking to someone a couple of weeks ago who'd written a book They'd be great clients and he sent through a copy of the cover and, lo and behold, he was on JJ's.
John Checki
So, guys, welcome to the show, thank you, thank you, and we underscore that for the rest of you listening or watching, I've met the other founder of it, gene Jackson, a wonderfully genius of a fellow, and if you use the internet at all for marketing, you're using some of the techniques that he invented low those many years ago. And if you're lucky enough to play golf with him, tony Robbins, congratulations. If not, like the rest of us, you just have to get a reservation. But this book has been a great help to us, particularly for JJ and JJ. I'll let you fill in that part of the blank.
JJ Checki
Yes, definitely Well one. The writing process was fun, which is probably how you had that conversation with Mark is. I highlight that to people who stop and ask about the process. What was that like? What was the experience? And I definitely point to 90 minute books because that was a pleasurable experience. It's own fun story how it did the opportunity came to be. But as far as the book itself, it's definitely been amazing have a resource to be able to give to somebody, whether that's a PDF version if they want a free one, or whether they want me to sign one and send it to them as well. So it definitely been a great resource and love having the opportunity to be able to do that.
John Checki
Another feature of it. I've met any number of people who tell horror stories about how they had a book printed up and they have either their garage or a warehouse or an extra storage facility full of books. And you do not have to do that, no kidding, you just order them as you need them. It comes with a certain variety of books I forget how many it is but you don't order caseloads of books just so your wife or husband or friends can give you some grief and the mice love something to eat.
Stuart Bell
Yeah, we're definitely trying to mice.
For you to stress, you've had it.
I want to say a few weeks ago, but it was probably a few months ago and I where they had that exact experience and in fact it got worse because they had some that were ordered but it had gone out of date some of the content and they needed to update it. But I think the original company had gone out of business but everything was printed in the company's name so they couldn't get access to any of the assets, so it really became a bit of a gravestone of a project that was then collecting dust in the back of the room. So this idea that we're creating a living document and the fact that we happened to be in a point in time where a book is a very effective way of starting a conversation with people, but the book itself isn't the product, it's a living version, why don't we jump back a little bit and think about how you guys came to the point of wanting to write a book in the first place? Was it a long burning passion or specifically thinking about the market.
JJ Checki
If you want me to answer that first and then John can go, the more in depth.
John Checki
Go right ahead.
JJ Checki
I have this fun. The fun version or the silly version of it is once when we had the physical office here in the Dallas Fort Worth area. I walk into the office one morning and haven't even gotten to my desk yet and pop, as I call him. John looks at me and says we're writing a book, like okay, good morning. So it says, yeah, I just hired 90 minute books for to help us get to our message. Out there we're starting, and whatever day it was like okay, here we go, we're writing a book.
So John had a much more in depth answer to that, but that was my experience.
John Checki
I, since the earth cooled, have written things down on pieces of paper and I really trained myself when I went to Texas Christian University thinking that I was going to become a novelist and JJ's mom was kind enough to support us for a short, happy period of time when I was affectionately referred to as an unpublished novelist. And after three of those in a couple of years I got really tired of being a supported bum so I went and got to be a certified public account. But I've been working on a book title called how to have Fun and Still have Money for years and I even put a manuscript together and miraculously got it through compliance and I had to remind compliance when I put that on our website a couple of years back, because they keep forgetting stuff, we're losing files and if you keep fine, jj's, we're going to keep in file. I wanted to have a project that we did together. That's point number one. Point number two most people have an idea of some burning desire to share their ideas. Particularly financial advisors always have a hard luck story when they started, which is why we want to make sure no one else has that same hard luck story If you're making twice your age and it's back in 1980 and you're 40 and you're making $80,000 and your boss comes to your office and says if you could find a job by next Tuesday and it's Thursday that would be a great thing. And I thought the probability of May they just changed the tax law and gutted three different industries in Dallas of finding that kind of a job in five days is nominal. So we've renegotiated in terms of that and I became a financial advisor and much more appreciated that than being a tax guy.
But in terms of a message, jj's had a great period of time while he's networking, mentioning the book, passing out the book to people without asking immediately for an order. I was at a place called Osteo Strong and I was just chatting with a little lady because basically, people of our age I'm only 75, working and getting to be more than 75. And I just said to the lady because I gave their first speech, they gave on what Osteo Strong was about the advantages of aging, which is great fun. And I handed her the book and she looked at me and said huh, start a conversation, hand me a book. What do you ask me to do next? Write you a check. And I said I'm sure you have met in your lifetime or like that. But I'm just giving you a book. If you enjoy it, great.
JJ Checki
and if not, at least you can keep a door open with it and I've even started prefaceing that and saying are you a reader? And if they say yes, well, like, why have a book? If you're interested here you go, and if they kind of waffle, I go. You save me money by actually not taking the book. So if you don't want it, not going to bother me at all.
Stuart Bell
It's such a great point that it starts the conversation in a giving where, not with people's defenses up. You're going into something genuinely trying to help them and from that some business will come. But that's not, I think, for all of the podcasts, as people listen back and most of the people that we're working with, everyone's coming from this perspective if wanting to share and help first, in the belief that business will come later, not trying to ram something down people's throat and here on the planet earth.
John Checki
A helpful hint to anybody watching or listening is if you provide value first and you can demonstrate you're not a pickpocket even though you may or may not look like a pickpocket not any of us puts people at ease and if you've read Dr Kildini at all in terms of how people's minds kind of work and he wrote a book years and years ago and took 20 years for that message to actually become popular. Oh, by the way, and it was to help people defend themselves against the techniques that salespeople used on. I'm going to call them their victims, as opposed to their market. And instead of being appealing to that market, it turned out the people that he was trying to vilify, criticize. Salespeople kept hiring Chaldeany to come to their events, to talk to them, to teach them how to use these techniques.
Stuart Bell
There is that underlying belief that anything can work, for God or evil, and some techniques because it's helping people, but certainly be aware of the risks of the same techniques working and to kind of underscore that you can even include this in one of your books, and that is simply this.
John Checki
Once JJ and I were being interviewed by an attorney who, comedically enough, was an ambulance chasing attorney but despite that, was very nice man and he had longed us. Part of his office periodically when we were in Austin, was really grilling us like attorneys like to do, and his wife was there too, because we always like to have both sides of the story. And I said, to summarize this I'm not sure if it's a U5 or U4, I get this so confused but I've been in business for 35 years and my office has always been five miles of the same location. You get to a very small circle and that's where I've been for the last 35 years and there are no complaints.
JJ Checki
Right In our industry that's the equivalent of a forensic background check is the broker check. So if you look at that and it's clean, that means something. And if someone.
John Checki
If you're not in Phoenix for a few years, then get kicked out of town and they go to Atlanta for a few years.
Stuart Bell
And the people who are basically migratory con artists, especially in the state business- as I say, the propensity of people writing negative reviews as opposed to positive reviews, the fact that you've got that, all of that social proof coming through, that you're delivering what you say and the conversations that you're starting manifest into some kind of real, tangible benefits at the end of it, such as Game Changer, particularly like saying, financial services.
John Checki
About somebody with white hair working with somebody with just a salt and pepper beard. Jd, tell us what you've discovered about testimonials and financial advisors.
JJ Checki
Well, it made me think of not having one. Always has the younger counterpart that's working together, but it does help on both directions. You have young and old clients looking at both of us and they might point to one or the other. They might say we're comfortable hiring you because pop is his experience. Or the opposite side. They'll say we want to hire you because we know long term you're going to be there with us At some point in the distant future. John will eventually hang it up and sail off into the sunset, but I'm not holding my breath.
Stuart Bell
Again the feeling that he's going to be both of us in this race.
John Checki
Actually, the oldest financial advisor in the United States is in New York. I forget his last name, but he's only 106 years old. The big change for those of you that are in the financial business is now financial advisors according to what JD just found out a couple of weeks ago now can have testimonials which in the past you could not even have someone who loved you to death send out a referral card to somebody else when I first became a CPA. If you had JJ as your CPA and you came to me and said I want to fire JJ and hire you back when I became a CPA in 1976, I would have to call JJ and say you might want to call Stuart because I think you have a problem with him. I couldn't even give him my card in 1976. The world has changed a great deal.
Stuart Bell
As an opportunity we talked briefly about. We'll start talking about the book being a living document, not this thing that's cast in stone and then you're going to sink a swim with it. But the idea of now, the landscape has changed. You've got the opportunity to use the book as a tool in this new landscape, with all the references and testimonials and the opportunity for people to share. Not only can they make those on social media as an example or linked in, or you could now include them in the book where you couldn't before, but you can also reach out to existing clients and use the book as a referral tool, saying, hey, we were talking about potentially tweaking something within the book.
Now, even though it's two, three years later after the first version was out, reaching back out to those existing clients and say, hey, we've just made it up to the book. Many people get it as possible, the great feedback. If you want to get it on social media, that's fine. If you want to, just let us know and we'll send you some copies to give to the person that you're thinking of. This idea of treating it as a living asset. It can update itself and flex and change depending on the market conditions or the rule changes. It's such a more empowering way of thinking as a book as a tool, rather than just the book is the product trying to write something, it's got an ISBN and that's it for all an eternity.
John Checki
And since modern businesses are evolving, where more and more people are saving an hour or two a day by not commuting from home to wherever the office used to be, and I used to have a nice collection of Jaguars and Mercedes Benzes and Alexis parked in the parking garage where our office was, because there were so many extra parking spaces available during the beginning of the pandemic, if we got a better offer and tried to convince the landlord that you know, I could shoot a cannon in the parking lot and the only thing I would hit would be a wall. So could you give us a reduction on our rent? And he said, no, this is a hot market. And I thought okay, we left that suite a year ago and it's still empty. Oh, by the way, so for those of you who are in one spot and thinking, gee, willikers, I don't want to put my address and my partners and what have you on the book. You can do that and later revise it later on, so you're not making it.
Stuart Bell
Absolutely. I'm making it as tailored as possible to the moment and then changing it if necessary to the next moment as I change, compared to trying to make something generic that's trying to fit all purposes. We often talk about our price point, as you guys know, is that we try to keep it as cost effective as possible, because that way then people can write books as they would think about a campaign. So, rather than writing a best seller type book where it's a kind of one and done, lock yourself in the cabin and have an unpleasant experience of writing for months and months thinking about it as this campaign, this is the most effective tool for this campaign and the mayor may not be another campaign and another further down the track or changes to tail of it.
John Checki
And JJ, if you don't mind, why don't you tell us about your participation in the dictation of the book with? That was like for you.
JJ Checki
Oh, definitely Well, one I wanted to highlight with Stuart just said, which was another one of your podcasts. The author referenced that one particular section of the book really stood out and people really resonated with. So he's actually now peeling that out of the book and call it recreating. But using that as the basis for the second book that he's writing is because that was the tool that most people liked, or liked the most out of the book. So that's awfully an interesting concept as well, to be able to living, breathing thing versus just standing still.
So, and your question was the writing process or the dictating process. It was actually pleasure to be a part of. So, obviously, the outline you start with that. What are we writing about? What's the purpose of the book? Set that make sure it's set up in place.
And then the actual interview was, which was a lot of fun. We enjoyed it. We had a good time, which you would expect from the title and the subject. As far as how we operate and finances, it's a serious thing, but at the same time, we like to have a good time with it. We like to actually exchange with our clients, not just to drive financial reports. So actually getting to write it and share some personal stories about the family, about some of the just the different stories that are in it. It was just a lot of fun and enjoyed the opportunity, of course, to work with my pop, and also it's fun to have both of us be on the back cover, so as we handed out, you guys like you might recognize somebody on this book in front of you, so it's a lot of fun.
John Checki
Another side now. I was talking to a fellow who's representing a major insurance company that you see, way else, jump out of the water behind a golf, what have you? And he said how did you happen to find JJ? And I looked at him and I said do you notice how much he looks like me? And he said yes my son and we have the same name.
JJ Checki
Yes.
Stuart Bell
I just looked there nine months later and he was out, so it's been a long. I couldn't get any staff, so I had to create my own.
John Checki
And I did. For those of you who aren't in business, the oldest family business in the world is a Japanese company that's 1500 years old and they make, as I recall, buddhist temples. And there is a department in the University of Monterey and not California, but Mexico that devotes itself to family run businesses.
So, there's a long history not just Johnson and the Ford Motor Company of businesses which are family businesses. So I encourage you to go look at those various sources and, for those of you who are having trouble finding people that you'd like to hand it off to you might take a look at your family and find the one or two or three responsible ones out of the kids that you have, who you can do that or you can do the get off this ramp. You use the Roman custom of adoption, where you find somebody who's amazing and you have him or her or they sign an agreement that will actually take over your business but make sure your family is okay, which is where the word adoption came from.
Stuart Bell
That's an interesting background to the entomology of the word and actually that resonates a little bit with the podcast from last week with John Neuching, who they do a lot of family wealth and private office type business and their experience is really trying to make sure that transition is as smooth as possible. I think there's a lot of time where people, particularly on the smaller side of business, perhaps think of things as is almost an extension of self-employment, not really thinking of the business as an entity.
John Checki
But when you start thinking about bringing in other family members it really gives that inter generational opportunity and to kind of underscore that further, when JJ first went from being a youth pastor for 10 years to helping me with my business, we put down procedures because I, as you might be able to tell from my pace of speech, am a nine quick start on a scale of 10. And JJ, what was your score?
JJ Checki
I believe mine was a one.
John Checki
Scale of one to 10.
JJ Checki
I was one, he was nine.
Stuart Bell
So JJ doesn't seem like he would cause any problems at all.
John Checki
Yeah, actually the probability of being able to work with anybody more than two points beside you is a non-start Right Statistically speaking. But you know you can't. I can't too well to make another sign, but that's another story. Jj is a natural baker, just like his mom was. She's since deceased, so he follows recipes very well and I have a wonderful cook, an Italian specialty, and particularly don't follow recipes. So we have procedures for JJ and we call that a three-ring binder, thanks to a particular mentor of ours, and it's been very helpful.
Stuart Bell
This idea of kind of translating that into how you help the clients, this idea of proceduralizing things and having a formula to work to, that kind of represents itself in the book to a certain degree, because you're presenting these, this framework of ideas that you then obviously talking to when you eventually meet people. So the proceduralizing of placing things in the three-ring binder and then how you're working with clients was the client work always that way was always a lot more procedural, just because the nature of the work it was in my case, and I'll tell you why.
John Checki
I'm a rather studious person by nature. It may not seem like it, but I always do a lot of research and I found that there are several different ways that people actually learn. And I was talking to a client of mine who was a chief lobbyist for a major company and he's a brilliant guy and he kept saying to me I just don't see what you're saying. So I turned to the back of the prospectus and it had one of those amazing charts that statisticians are so good picking the right date to start. They look really good. Sorry for my sarcasm and he said I'm not now, I see. So obviously he was a visual, so I've always had diagrams, particularly I like doing 3D diagrams and color in things like that to make it kind of artistic. Sorry, I can't draw, but I can actually do charts and graphs.
So we have a procedure that goes into circle which is never ending in terms of getting to know you, because we're not so brilliant that we can say at hello, I have got a great idea for your money, yeah, congratulations. And I talked to those people and if you're on LinkedIn, you get about 10 messages a day from people who want to connect with you and then have a value add, which is not a value add, it's just a bit. Would love to talk to you. But we first get to know our clients, get to find out what they've done, what their values are, who has already picked their pocket, who they really enjoy, who their golden apple or eggs are, who their kids are the good ones, the bad ones and the ones they hate to talk about so we can give them some helpful hints in terms of that sort of stuff.
And yes, we do it in a humorous way, but we also record things and document every stinking thing, because I spent five years doing litigative support on a criminal tax and securities cases. So if it's not documented, it didn't happen. So it was absolutely that way. And then we send people a mind map which actually gives you a visual picture of you, your family and what it is you want to be when you grow up, whether you decide to grow up or not. And then we follow up and follow up like like made an ant that have nothing better to do.
JJ Checki
And that mind map is quite healthy helpful, excuse me because it gives a snapshot of who they are, where they are, where they're wanting to go, and it's a pretty good representation on one sheet of paper of what they want to accomplish and what they have accomplished. So it gives a roadmap for not just the early meetings but later on as well, of saying what's changed, Is this still what we're working towards? Have we accomplished that so we can check it off or move maybe categories and that's already now done and experientially.
John Checki
We had a case where you meet a guy. He's, by himself, never been married. He married somebody who is a widow, was a ready-made family, so he suddenly goes through the holy guacamole. He had no idea how much marriage would change my life. And you're thinking I know you're not trying to be funny, but that was one of the funniest things I've heard this week.
So we drew a mind map for he and his wife and we went over each one of their kids, and their kids had a lot more stories than I've ever heard before, which is really saying something. So I just said, okay, we're going to put a diagram together in terms of a couple of different trust ideas for you, because one of them had lots of assets and one of them had lots of stories, which is a common situation. And this person was not some incredibly knockdown drag out lovely woman, just two normal Christian people who just were lucky enough to find each other, both widows. He was a widow or she was a widow, which is a great idea. Kids, you can't hear anything If you are a widow or a widow, you're much better off with a widow and widow, or as opposed to, yeah, the hunters of the world. But anyway.
So we did that and that document changed over time. She started to identify some of the problems within her family and decided to take measures. It reminded me when my kids were in college and I married a lady who had a couple of kids and I was paying half the tuition and her first husband father the kids was paying half the tuition. And then one day I got really tired of doing that. So I invited my darling wife to go ahead and start to get a job and help support her kids college habit. And when she discovered that she was making money and hadn't turned it over to the kids, she really got on their case and helped them straighten up and what have you? And eventually cut them off A lot of interest.
Yeah, yeah, because once somebody starts to pick your pocket, so we kind of help people with their blind size. And for husbands that think they can do everything all by themselves, we are great stress relievers and we can give you peace of mind because when markets change or other things happen, instead of pointing that finger at you, she can say or you can say you better call JJ or John or both of them because it's their fault, or thank them.
JJ Checki
I'm glad you referenced that working towards peace of mind, but it also reminded me of another story is a body shop owner that's a client had given him one of the books one day and I guess this was before he became a client and gave him the book. One day he's in his kitchen or whatever, looking for the book and he can't find it. So he asks his wife, he goes what happened to the book? She goes I'm reading it. So and then fast forward a little bit. When they had something coming up financially, she said to before you do anything else, give JJ a call. So literally that generated because I got a book in his hand and then the wife's hand ultimately, and to have a game opportunity to help for their family.
Stuart Bell
This idea you were talking about Robert Chavini before, and the whole idea of influence and persuasion In the nicest possible sense. The book is telling people what you want them to hear and what makes them an ideal client for you, meaning that you can have them to death. The fact that it's delivered in a package which has an outsized amount of credibility for technically what is, and glued together pieces of paper from Amazon. It needs that message so that now when you're saying something to people, you're not saying it for the first time and it's almost like you're repeating what the author of the book said, although obviously it's the same person. So this idea that it needs it goes ahead of you and starts the message and gets people aligned to the thinking and then, if they're aligned enough to knock on the door or jump on Zoom, you're already 10 steps down the process.
The other thing that sprained the mind as you were talking this idea of the mind map. In the scorecard book that I've got for the book blueprint scorecard, one of the ideas there is a purposeful outline and I'm a big mind mapper as opposed to like nesting or drawing things out. So the visual representation, both the clarity in the situation as it develops and the avoidance of doubt and the unique way that you're packaging it. I mean, I've done lots of these calls and we've helped a thousand people and a lot of them are financial advisors. It's the first time I've ever described someone doing the KYC and again to know people type thing and then mind mapping out so as a unique tool to help the whole process, talking about that, potentially having it mentioned in the book or, if not in the book, mentioning it when you first come in and then reinforcing it all the way through the process. It's just a way of building on itself in a way that amplifies the instructions or that further.
John Checki
we learned over a period of time through John Bowen's work with group called CEG worldwide in terms of identifying the various types of people who accumulate wealth and which one of those you were that would be in my case and in JJ's case and which ones you really did not want to be anywhere around. And that was really handy. And on that mind map you can also, on the top of that, put down who this person actually is, which is very handy. And let them know that if we're trying to build a legacy, we're rowing the boat in the same direction and we understand that everybody who has at least three kids usually has that one kid. That changes your whole facial expression when you mention that kid's name, not in JJ's. He has three amazing children who are just well, well, well schooled and they're very polite. Even if they weren't my grandchildren, they're lovely people to have over because they're pleased and thank you folks, and they're absolutely amazing and of course they're above average like everybody's grandchildren, but that's another story.
But in terms of families, almost everybody has a reason why attorneys invented a spend thrift trust or a special needs trust and what we do to kind of underscore what check your financial dose is. We find people who think, whatever problem you have, one specific problem was the most interesting question they ever heard in their life and they researched the BG's out of that and they usually the top gun, whether it's Dean Jackson who comes up with more marketing ideas and one throwaway conversation that anybody ever talked about in your entire life and they just kind of have everybody in a state of awe because everybody who knows anything has heard of that person and wishes they had lunch with that person just one time and got to actually talk with them. And at least one of us has been lucky enough to pick the brains of some of the smartest people and their dues to pay to get to go ahead and talk to those people. You don't just hop in one day hey.
Tony, you got a minute that's not coming up, so when as you're paying your dues, and JJ is absolutely amazing at being in groups and making speeches and being on panels and he also publicizes the people that he sees on a regular basis, and JJ, why don't you highlight that? Yeah?
JJ Checki
it's something fun that I started doing earlier this year. I'd pop as a great example of sharing videos about everyday life. So I started doing that a little over a year ago, but more recently I started highlighting the people. I'm saying I'm at a networking event and highlighting some of the people who are there. So maybe it's a lady who's launching her company called Kid Cakes that her and her children literally brought about and took a video with her, shared it. So it's just us two talking say hey, who am I with today? And getting her share her story and then putting it out there.
Or it's the local coffee shop to chai for that we frequently go to. So just, you know, to highlight other people. Back to the give and the influence is helping other people get in front of the audience that they want to get in front of and we're going to get taken care of. People are going to come and see us in one way or another. So it's just great getting to highlight others and, in the process, build up community and when it's the right time for someone to talk to us, then they know where to find us.
John Checki
Which is how we actually pondered on in this podcast. Well, stuart was interviewing another fellow that I know from another group that lives in, of all places, england, so you two understood each other. I understand either one of you. He was talking about how we could do something and it turns out it's been my experience, having worked with people who worked on the atomic bomb and the New York rocket and other things like that Not Greg and just happened to be lucky to get in a battery charge. And a guy who worked at a lab said hey, John, what are you?
doing? Why don't you come to the lab they're hiring? It was 1967. An interesting time. But periodically you'll just run across people who really are amazing and if you highlight them they might remember you. I'll tell you the last joke on that. Perhaps and here it is If we do a bad job, or if you do a bad job, people will stop strangers on the street corner to talk about you. But if you do a great job somebody who asks you again and again do you know anybody who does that? You might actually mention that person's name.
Stuart Bell
Yeah, it's interesting the dynamics of the different way around. We talk about orchestrated referrals in a way of not having passive referrals hoping that someone will mention it, but giving them the opportunity to remember to mention it at the right time. Because most people's experience of a referral is they'll be talking to the referee, their friends and they'll friend will say oh, you know what? I was just talking to, Mary, last week, and I wish I remembered that you did what you did Not, because with all the will in the world you would like to have made that recommendation, that referral, but people never think, whereas the passion and the vitriol and the bad blood that comes along with the bad experience Years ago a couple of financial advisors from New York and they were from upstate New York, not the city, and people upstate New York, just like normal people with the people in New York, are even more chatty than I am in terms of a harsh sort of way, and they'll take that as a compliment.
John Checki
But the guys from New York said we don't ask for referrals. We say if you give us a referral we'll never call them. So if you have somebody that wants to work with us, have them call us, because I'm not not asking you for names, not asking you for a list, I'm not telling. I get paid in three ways, not doing any of that silliness. So if you run across somebody that mentioned this stuff and you think we could be a good fit for them, have them, give us a call. And here's the reasoning If someone reaches out and picks up that 400 pound instrument known as a telephone and calls a stranger about one of the most sensitive topics on earth, they're really interested in talking to us. But if a complete stranger calls and says Mary Lou talked about me the other day or you the other day, and she said you have a problem with your finances, wouldn't you like to talk to us. That's not going to work out very well.
Stuart Bell
That idea of making sure that it's a human to human contact in the way that it is as effective as possible for people. It doesn't take much to think about it, but it's some of the many people don't think about it because they're doing day-to-day business. So I really love what you guys are doing across the board, both in reaching out with the book as a tool to start those conversations in a friendly way. What JJ is doing with the video is highlighting other people in the local area, not only to give you the opportunity to kind of be an influence maker or conversation maker, but if nothing else, it's just fun and entertaining. I mean, life goes fast and if it's a drag every day then it's a much longer journey than if it's fun.
John Checki
And for those of you wondering why there's so many jokes or what have you, it's funny within where I talk. When I first started financial planning, they said to not be funny when you give a speech. And despite trying my very best to not be funny while giving a speech on financial planning, people would laugh and I'd look at them and say that is not funny. And they'd say that is absolutely funny. So then a friend of mine said you should go to stand-up comedy school to learn how not to step on the laughs.
So there's nothing frightening than anybody talking to you about your most sensitive topic after health, and that is about your money, because everybody fears losing everything, living under a bridge and regretting that decision that you made that cost you your family, your future and your home.
Stuart Bell
And I think it makes it much more accessible. In having those conversations where it's all doom and gloom and making people feel bad about their decisions or putting all the risk back on them so that they're not enthusiastic about making a choice Very different experience from bringing people along with the journey in a positive way, and I think that's what really comes across both in the book and, obviously, in talking with people.
John Checki
We also have some people that, despite being very good at not spending as much money as they make, even just talking about social security and some penting stuff, and they came up with the expression. One of the clients has been a client since 1992 and he's referred to me by his big brother, who was the chief economist of IDS American Express at the time, not making that up, and he said I want belt and suspenders on my investments I call them once a quarter to go over it and have for the last several years just assuring them honest to God, everything is just fine and there are ways to do that. And JJ, you've had it reached in case on that very subject where a guy got impatient with the fact that he was the only guy in a bear market that was losing money.
JJ Checki
Yeah, there's different product that will right fit for the people, which is the importance of get to know your client. So if, whether it's a client who invests in real estate and that's his business as well, well, there's certain things that can benefit him more, maybe covering his liabilities I'll just leave it at that. Or there's other investments that people are more interested in, the potential to gain what would have some protection as well. So there's definitely just finding what that pain point is. If someone doesn't care about some of those features, well, you go in a different direction. But if there's something that fits, it's finding someone tells me what they want and then finding what fits best for that situation.
So by no means I like to do this one, by no means is hey, here's a container, who wants it? No, it's. Who are you? What do you want? What do you want to accomplish? Now let me, if I don't already know the answer right away, let me go and research that with other experts who are passionate about what they do and bring the right solution to you and let's talk. So it's a very least. That to us is that is the backward, that's the way it should be done and is done.
John Checki
We do have two requirements of clients. So that is number one you need to have a sense of humor. And number two and this is absolutely more essential even than number one you have to be coachable. If all you want to do is what you've already done, there's really no need for us to infringe on the amazing work you're already doing without having to share our own, without having to share our own stories.
JJ Checki
I'm sure that people that can may come to mind in your own world of someone that you could help greatly but isn't interested in your advice. So there's no reason beat your head against the wall to see if in fact, it eventually you break the wall versus your head. So finding people who actually are coachable and willing to not just willing, but ready to take advice and take action.
John Checki
So so don't waste any time going to a donut shop and giving a talk on physical fitness.
Stuart Bell
And that, in a way, is another reason why books are effective in the funnel, because, even with the expectation that people aren't reading it cover to cover, but there's an expectation that they're receiving it, they're aware of what it is and at the very least, look at the table of contents to get a feel that they're in the right place. And anyone who's positively reading back the chapter titles to you or referencing things that you've written, that is evidence that they are coachable, because the people who don't want to know are probably not even going to go as far as saying, yes, I'm a reader and take the copy of the book that you're offering.
JJ Checki
I think I said that earlier I don't remember if it was pre-podcast or in the podcast is, even when I'm talking with someone and I ask if they're, if they like to read, they're a reader. Say yes or no and then say if you'd like a copy, here's a copy of the book and if they hesitate I'll go. I don't need to add to the stack on your shelf, it doesn't bother me at all and actually saves me money by not sending you the book. So no worries at all and just move on to the next. Move on with whatever we're talking about. So it's fun.
John Checki
Yeah, the process of 90-minute books is painless. They really coach you through it. They've been doing it now for enough years where they know what they are doing and their staff does too. There's a good fit. They kind of help you through it. And what we did to finally finish up with the book is they supplied us with some artwork in terms of what the cover could look like. And I learned a long time ago it's a much better idea to show the people who already like you and have done business with you and are still doing business with you say, hey, which one of these covers most describes us and resonates with you? And we did that, took a survey because it's always easier to find out. But people, not you, not your son, not your wife, not your grumpy whatever, we don't have any of those Like, but you're satisfied, happy, advocating for you, clients like and what a great way of involving people in the process.
Stuart Bell
Knowing that book is about to be created, they've got an engaged view of what, what's happened, they feel a part of it, a part of the family. So to then be able to go back once it's created and say, hey, thanks for your imports, it's finished now. If you know anyone who would benefit from that, just let us know and we'll get a copy. The great way of including people, which, again, is like he likes to bake.
John Checki
I've encouraged him and he's picked it up in terms of actually passing out various treats that he and his amazing, gifted and talented family actually make. The JJ and his family are skilled bakers for sure, and I've encouraged them to go ahead and do that. All I do with people is give them sermenettes and occasionally have to go over for some wonderful red sauce in the Southern Italian tradition.
Stuart Bell
I don't usually feel any resentment of working virtually and being either in Florida or Pennsylvania, but now I kind of wish I was a little bit closer to you guys. I must need lunch, because that sounds good.
JJ Checki
Oh, we came across, so I have to share this, since you just prepped or kind of introduced. It is. We have some delicious cookies on our stove, on our kitchen counter right now. It's a combination of s'mores, traditional graham cracker, marshmallow chocolate and chocolate chip cookies. I can't stand the recipe where you actually combine both and bake it and they're as good as it sounds.
John Checki
They're delicious and also JJ is helping one of his client friends with their business and that were actually our treats and has passed those out to people and sent those to people that are now in the office, because an awful lot of people like to meet virtually as opposed to in person. My widows and widowers much prefer meeting in person because they've already been stung and they have a sense of needing to have physical contact. So we are lucky enough here in the Dallas Fort Worth area to still have offices that still let people in. You don't have to worry about asking, unless you just want to have one.
Stuart Bell
And, like I say, along with everything that, the circle that you were talking about in terms of getting to know the clients and what's the right fit for them, being able to offer virtual and in person, it's just being adaptive to the times and what the individual person needs, rather than a one size fits all. I always say that time goes fast. In the podcast piece I kind of say, well, talk for half an hour and then we'll get to that point and see where we are. Even it's in already. It'd be great to get back with you guys at some point in the future and do a follow up. In the meantime, what's a good place that people can go to learn more about the organization, either just to see what you're doing or if they're in the room?
John Checki
I have displayed our website, which is not very hard to realize. It's checkiefinancialcom and JJ. Why don't you describe or display your phone number also, just for me.
JJ Checki
Well, yeah, for me, I would say that the LinkedIn is definitely a good place to go. So my name. So if I could figure out how to change my name on the screen.
Stuart Bell
But to LinkedIn yeah, if you look up there, yeah, so JJ check it, a third on me.
JJ Checki
So junior is actually my pop, so that throws people off. But yeah, so it's, that's fun stuff.
Stuart Bell
Well, I make sure that I put the links directly to both of them in the show notes. So thank you Listening both on podcast players, all on the website. They can just click straight through and we both do lots of videos.
John Checki
My videos are more centered around the doves that live in our atrium, the various herbs and they're all legal herbs that I put in pasta sauce not the kind of herb that you just thought of in terms of those of you that are into psych and my darling wife, who's in show business and sings with the new kings of swing and teaches yoga and spin movies and recorded and was a contemporary of Madonna but decided not to live in a castle in her old age, says why do you keep doing videos? Who on earth is interested in that? One of our clients not even one of my happier clients, with client that likes JJ a lot more than he likes me because I asked him too many personal questions, said I really enjoy those videos.
We encourage people to do videos, and JJ does them highlighting other people's businesses, which is a very generous thing that you do, jj, so congratulations on doing that.
JJ Checki
Thank you. I like doing a mixture of personal whether it's the rock climbing gym, a fun outing for the family, our kitchen baking s'mores, or more on the professional side, of a lesson learned in a particular setting or and highlighting others. So I'm having a lot of fun with it Once again, originally highlighted from my pop taking videos all the time. Then I finally realized well, this is a good way to get in front of people, so I'm doing that more now.
Stuart Bell
Well, I'll tell you what. If you want to view, can see me the links to both of those channels. I'll make sure I include those in the notes as well, because I think this idea that business is so it's easy to get stuck in the weeds on the day to day stuff, but if you can find a way to make some expression outside of connections with real people, it just puts much more of a human touch on things.
John Checki
And we do have the very last, very last point. Years ago I was shooting some videos and when you do videos in your financial advisors, tough to get those through compliance. So I submitted the scripts and what have you? And JJ and I you can see we have good rapport with each other because we've known each other all his life and the videographer said, oh, I'd love to shoot a video of YouTube.
And I said you know, you have no idea the trouble I went through to get that one. But so I said, just to shut you up, we did that. So I just pointed to JJ and said JJ, what have you learned over the last couple of years? And you can see a very proud father when it's on the YouTube and it's John Checke TV channel on YouTube where JJ reshotted exactly what we do, how we did it. And you can see a very proud father realizing that his son has actually listened to us and learned what we actually do and can actually say it all by himself, with no prompting other than just being asked a question. So that's a vintage JJ way back when he knows even more now than he did back then.
Stuart Bell
But the connection that you guys have got is fantastic. My family is still back in the UK, fortunately, my brother's in the US and we work quite closely together. So I appreciate that family connection and it comes to it. I can only imagine the sense of the clients have got when they're getting both sides and both characters and both approaches. It really is much more. It's a synergistic result. The thumb is far greater than the two big individual parts. Thanks for your time. This really has gone fast. I know I think I say every episode. It really has gone fast. It'd be great to check in at some point in the future. In the meantime, as I say, I'll put all of the links directly to you guys and the company in the show notes so people can find. But again, thank you so much. It's really been a pleasure, and everyone for listening. I'm sure you've got lots. Check out John and JJ and we'll catch you in the next one.
John Checki
Have fun and stay well. Thank you, have fun. Thanks, Stuart.
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By 90-Minute Books
5
11 ratings
Today on the Book More Show, we're talking with John and JJ Checki. Father & son Financial Planning team based in Texas, and authors of a great book,_ Spend Time and Save Money_.
Their book is a fun introduction to their approach to retirement and helps people approach the subject from the perspective of living a great retirement rather than getting stuck in the weeds of financial planning.
We had the opportunity to discuss the process and the simplest way to create a book that starts the conversation. We also spoke about the idea that your book should be a living document rather than something carved in stone, allowing you to tweak and update it over time as you get real-world feedback on what resonates with clients.
The episode has some great ideas on how to use a book to find more leads, no matter what business you're in.
SHOW HIGHLIGHTS
LINKS
John Checki
Linkedin | YouTube | Facebook
JJ Checki
Linkedin | Bookclub
Checki Financial
Show notes & video: 90minutebooks.com/podcast/144
How does your book idea score against the 8 book building blocks we use here all the time: Book Blueprint Scorecard
Titles & Outline Workshops: 90MinuteBooks.com/Workshops
Ready to get started: 90MinuteBooks.com
Questions/Feedback: Send us an email
Extra Credit Listening: MoreCheeseLessWhiskers.com
TRANSCRIPT
(AI transcript provided as supporting material and may contain errors)
Stuart Bell
I have one. Welcome back to another episode of the Book more show. It's Stuart Bell here and today. I'm excited for how this is going to go. We just had a quick behind the scenes start to the conversation before we hit record, so this is going to be a really great conversation. So we've got John and JJ Checki with us today, who wrote a book. I actually got finished a couple of years ago now, but the reason I reached out is because, completely unrelated I called with some of the marketing firm and we were talking about books and and Mark I was talking to you said I was talking to someone a couple of weeks ago who'd written a book They'd be great clients and he sent through a copy of the cover and, lo and behold, he was on JJ's.
John Checki
So, guys, welcome to the show, thank you, thank you, and we underscore that for the rest of you listening or watching, I've met the other founder of it, gene Jackson, a wonderfully genius of a fellow, and if you use the internet at all for marketing, you're using some of the techniques that he invented low those many years ago. And if you're lucky enough to play golf with him, tony Robbins, congratulations. If not, like the rest of us, you just have to get a reservation. But this book has been a great help to us, particularly for JJ and JJ. I'll let you fill in that part of the blank.
JJ Checki
Yes, definitely Well one. The writing process was fun, which is probably how you had that conversation with Mark is. I highlight that to people who stop and ask about the process. What was that like? What was the experience? And I definitely point to 90 minute books because that was a pleasurable experience. It's own fun story how it did the opportunity came to be. But as far as the book itself, it's definitely been amazing have a resource to be able to give to somebody, whether that's a PDF version if they want a free one, or whether they want me to sign one and send it to them as well. So it definitely been a great resource and love having the opportunity to be able to do that.
John Checki
Another feature of it. I've met any number of people who tell horror stories about how they had a book printed up and they have either their garage or a warehouse or an extra storage facility full of books. And you do not have to do that, no kidding, you just order them as you need them. It comes with a certain variety of books I forget how many it is but you don't order caseloads of books just so your wife or husband or friends can give you some grief and the mice love something to eat.
Stuart Bell
Yeah, we're definitely trying to mice.
For you to stress, you've had it.
I want to say a few weeks ago, but it was probably a few months ago and I where they had that exact experience and in fact it got worse because they had some that were ordered but it had gone out of date some of the content and they needed to update it. But I think the original company had gone out of business but everything was printed in the company's name so they couldn't get access to any of the assets, so it really became a bit of a gravestone of a project that was then collecting dust in the back of the room. So this idea that we're creating a living document and the fact that we happened to be in a point in time where a book is a very effective way of starting a conversation with people, but the book itself isn't the product, it's a living version, why don't we jump back a little bit and think about how you guys came to the point of wanting to write a book in the first place? Was it a long burning passion or specifically thinking about the market.
JJ Checki
If you want me to answer that first and then John can go, the more in depth.
John Checki
Go right ahead.
JJ Checki
I have this fun. The fun version or the silly version of it is once when we had the physical office here in the Dallas Fort Worth area. I walk into the office one morning and haven't even gotten to my desk yet and pop, as I call him. John looks at me and says we're writing a book, like okay, good morning. So it says, yeah, I just hired 90 minute books for to help us get to our message. Out there we're starting, and whatever day it was like okay, here we go, we're writing a book.
So John had a much more in depth answer to that, but that was my experience.
John Checki
I, since the earth cooled, have written things down on pieces of paper and I really trained myself when I went to Texas Christian University thinking that I was going to become a novelist and JJ's mom was kind enough to support us for a short, happy period of time when I was affectionately referred to as an unpublished novelist. And after three of those in a couple of years I got really tired of being a supported bum so I went and got to be a certified public account. But I've been working on a book title called how to have Fun and Still have Money for years and I even put a manuscript together and miraculously got it through compliance and I had to remind compliance when I put that on our website a couple of years back, because they keep forgetting stuff, we're losing files and if you keep fine, jj's, we're going to keep in file. I wanted to have a project that we did together. That's point number one. Point number two most people have an idea of some burning desire to share their ideas. Particularly financial advisors always have a hard luck story when they started, which is why we want to make sure no one else has that same hard luck story If you're making twice your age and it's back in 1980 and you're 40 and you're making $80,000 and your boss comes to your office and says if you could find a job by next Tuesday and it's Thursday that would be a great thing. And I thought the probability of May they just changed the tax law and gutted three different industries in Dallas of finding that kind of a job in five days is nominal. So we've renegotiated in terms of that and I became a financial advisor and much more appreciated that than being a tax guy.
But in terms of a message, jj's had a great period of time while he's networking, mentioning the book, passing out the book to people without asking immediately for an order. I was at a place called Osteo Strong and I was just chatting with a little lady because basically, people of our age I'm only 75, working and getting to be more than 75. And I just said to the lady because I gave their first speech, they gave on what Osteo Strong was about the advantages of aging, which is great fun. And I handed her the book and she looked at me and said huh, start a conversation, hand me a book. What do you ask me to do next? Write you a check. And I said I'm sure you have met in your lifetime or like that. But I'm just giving you a book. If you enjoy it, great.
JJ Checki
and if not, at least you can keep a door open with it and I've even started prefaceing that and saying are you a reader? And if they say yes, well, like, why have a book? If you're interested here you go, and if they kind of waffle, I go. You save me money by actually not taking the book. So if you don't want it, not going to bother me at all.
Stuart Bell
It's such a great point that it starts the conversation in a giving where, not with people's defenses up. You're going into something genuinely trying to help them and from that some business will come. But that's not, I think, for all of the podcasts, as people listen back and most of the people that we're working with, everyone's coming from this perspective if wanting to share and help first, in the belief that business will come later, not trying to ram something down people's throat and here on the planet earth.
John Checki
A helpful hint to anybody watching or listening is if you provide value first and you can demonstrate you're not a pickpocket even though you may or may not look like a pickpocket not any of us puts people at ease and if you've read Dr Kildini at all in terms of how people's minds kind of work and he wrote a book years and years ago and took 20 years for that message to actually become popular. Oh, by the way, and it was to help people defend themselves against the techniques that salespeople used on. I'm going to call them their victims, as opposed to their market. And instead of being appealing to that market, it turned out the people that he was trying to vilify, criticize. Salespeople kept hiring Chaldeany to come to their events, to talk to them, to teach them how to use these techniques.
Stuart Bell
There is that underlying belief that anything can work, for God or evil, and some techniques because it's helping people, but certainly be aware of the risks of the same techniques working and to kind of underscore that you can even include this in one of your books, and that is simply this.
John Checki
Once JJ and I were being interviewed by an attorney who, comedically enough, was an ambulance chasing attorney but despite that, was very nice man and he had longed us. Part of his office periodically when we were in Austin, was really grilling us like attorneys like to do, and his wife was there too, because we always like to have both sides of the story. And I said, to summarize this I'm not sure if it's a U5 or U4, I get this so confused but I've been in business for 35 years and my office has always been five miles of the same location. You get to a very small circle and that's where I've been for the last 35 years and there are no complaints.
JJ Checki
Right In our industry that's the equivalent of a forensic background check is the broker check. So if you look at that and it's clean, that means something. And if someone.
John Checki
If you're not in Phoenix for a few years, then get kicked out of town and they go to Atlanta for a few years.
Stuart Bell
And the people who are basically migratory con artists, especially in the state business- as I say, the propensity of people writing negative reviews as opposed to positive reviews, the fact that you've got that, all of that social proof coming through, that you're delivering what you say and the conversations that you're starting manifest into some kind of real, tangible benefits at the end of it, such as Game Changer, particularly like saying, financial services.
John Checki
About somebody with white hair working with somebody with just a salt and pepper beard. Jd, tell us what you've discovered about testimonials and financial advisors.
JJ Checki
Well, it made me think of not having one. Always has the younger counterpart that's working together, but it does help on both directions. You have young and old clients looking at both of us and they might point to one or the other. They might say we're comfortable hiring you because pop is his experience. Or the opposite side. They'll say we want to hire you because we know long term you're going to be there with us At some point in the distant future. John will eventually hang it up and sail off into the sunset, but I'm not holding my breath.
Stuart Bell
Again the feeling that he's going to be both of us in this race.
John Checki
Actually, the oldest financial advisor in the United States is in New York. I forget his last name, but he's only 106 years old. The big change for those of you that are in the financial business is now financial advisors according to what JD just found out a couple of weeks ago now can have testimonials which in the past you could not even have someone who loved you to death send out a referral card to somebody else when I first became a CPA. If you had JJ as your CPA and you came to me and said I want to fire JJ and hire you back when I became a CPA in 1976, I would have to call JJ and say you might want to call Stuart because I think you have a problem with him. I couldn't even give him my card in 1976. The world has changed a great deal.
Stuart Bell
As an opportunity we talked briefly about. We'll start talking about the book being a living document, not this thing that's cast in stone and then you're going to sink a swim with it. But the idea of now, the landscape has changed. You've got the opportunity to use the book as a tool in this new landscape, with all the references and testimonials and the opportunity for people to share. Not only can they make those on social media as an example or linked in, or you could now include them in the book where you couldn't before, but you can also reach out to existing clients and use the book as a referral tool, saying, hey, we were talking about potentially tweaking something within the book.
Now, even though it's two, three years later after the first version was out, reaching back out to those existing clients and say, hey, we've just made it up to the book. Many people get it as possible, the great feedback. If you want to get it on social media, that's fine. If you want to, just let us know and we'll send you some copies to give to the person that you're thinking of. This idea of treating it as a living asset. It can update itself and flex and change depending on the market conditions or the rule changes. It's such a more empowering way of thinking as a book as a tool, rather than just the book is the product trying to write something, it's got an ISBN and that's it for all an eternity.
John Checki
And since modern businesses are evolving, where more and more people are saving an hour or two a day by not commuting from home to wherever the office used to be, and I used to have a nice collection of Jaguars and Mercedes Benzes and Alexis parked in the parking garage where our office was, because there were so many extra parking spaces available during the beginning of the pandemic, if we got a better offer and tried to convince the landlord that you know, I could shoot a cannon in the parking lot and the only thing I would hit would be a wall. So could you give us a reduction on our rent? And he said, no, this is a hot market. And I thought okay, we left that suite a year ago and it's still empty. Oh, by the way, so for those of you who are in one spot and thinking, gee, willikers, I don't want to put my address and my partners and what have you on the book. You can do that and later revise it later on, so you're not making it.
Stuart Bell
Absolutely. I'm making it as tailored as possible to the moment and then changing it if necessary to the next moment as I change, compared to trying to make something generic that's trying to fit all purposes. We often talk about our price point, as you guys know, is that we try to keep it as cost effective as possible, because that way then people can write books as they would think about a campaign. So, rather than writing a best seller type book where it's a kind of one and done, lock yourself in the cabin and have an unpleasant experience of writing for months and months thinking about it as this campaign, this is the most effective tool for this campaign and the mayor may not be another campaign and another further down the track or changes to tail of it.
John Checki
And JJ, if you don't mind, why don't you tell us about your participation in the dictation of the book with? That was like for you.
JJ Checki
Oh, definitely Well, one I wanted to highlight with Stuart just said, which was another one of your podcasts. The author referenced that one particular section of the book really stood out and people really resonated with. So he's actually now peeling that out of the book and call it recreating. But using that as the basis for the second book that he's writing is because that was the tool that most people liked, or liked the most out of the book. So that's awfully an interesting concept as well, to be able to living, breathing thing versus just standing still.
So, and your question was the writing process or the dictating process. It was actually pleasure to be a part of. So, obviously, the outline you start with that. What are we writing about? What's the purpose of the book? Set that make sure it's set up in place.
And then the actual interview was, which was a lot of fun. We enjoyed it. We had a good time, which you would expect from the title and the subject. As far as how we operate and finances, it's a serious thing, but at the same time, we like to have a good time with it. We like to actually exchange with our clients, not just to drive financial reports. So actually getting to write it and share some personal stories about the family, about some of the just the different stories that are in it. It was just a lot of fun and enjoyed the opportunity, of course, to work with my pop, and also it's fun to have both of us be on the back cover, so as we handed out, you guys like you might recognize somebody on this book in front of you, so it's a lot of fun.
John Checki
Another side now. I was talking to a fellow who's representing a major insurance company that you see, way else, jump out of the water behind a golf, what have you? And he said how did you happen to find JJ? And I looked at him and I said do you notice how much he looks like me? And he said yes my son and we have the same name.
JJ Checki
Yes.
Stuart Bell
I just looked there nine months later and he was out, so it's been a long. I couldn't get any staff, so I had to create my own.
John Checki
And I did. For those of you who aren't in business, the oldest family business in the world is a Japanese company that's 1500 years old and they make, as I recall, buddhist temples. And there is a department in the University of Monterey and not California, but Mexico that devotes itself to family run businesses.
So, there's a long history not just Johnson and the Ford Motor Company of businesses which are family businesses. So I encourage you to go look at those various sources and, for those of you who are having trouble finding people that you'd like to hand it off to you might take a look at your family and find the one or two or three responsible ones out of the kids that you have, who you can do that or you can do the get off this ramp. You use the Roman custom of adoption, where you find somebody who's amazing and you have him or her or they sign an agreement that will actually take over your business but make sure your family is okay, which is where the word adoption came from.
Stuart Bell
That's an interesting background to the entomology of the word and actually that resonates a little bit with the podcast from last week with John Neuching, who they do a lot of family wealth and private office type business and their experience is really trying to make sure that transition is as smooth as possible. I think there's a lot of time where people, particularly on the smaller side of business, perhaps think of things as is almost an extension of self-employment, not really thinking of the business as an entity.
John Checki
But when you start thinking about bringing in other family members it really gives that inter generational opportunity and to kind of underscore that further, when JJ first went from being a youth pastor for 10 years to helping me with my business, we put down procedures because I, as you might be able to tell from my pace of speech, am a nine quick start on a scale of 10. And JJ, what was your score?
JJ Checki
I believe mine was a one.
John Checki
Scale of one to 10.
JJ Checki
I was one, he was nine.
Stuart Bell
So JJ doesn't seem like he would cause any problems at all.
John Checki
Yeah, actually the probability of being able to work with anybody more than two points beside you is a non-start Right Statistically speaking. But you know you can't. I can't too well to make another sign, but that's another story. Jj is a natural baker, just like his mom was. She's since deceased, so he follows recipes very well and I have a wonderful cook, an Italian specialty, and particularly don't follow recipes. So we have procedures for JJ and we call that a three-ring binder, thanks to a particular mentor of ours, and it's been very helpful.
Stuart Bell
This idea of kind of translating that into how you help the clients, this idea of proceduralizing things and having a formula to work to, that kind of represents itself in the book to a certain degree, because you're presenting these, this framework of ideas that you then obviously talking to when you eventually meet people. So the proceduralizing of placing things in the three-ring binder and then how you're working with clients was the client work always that way was always a lot more procedural, just because the nature of the work it was in my case, and I'll tell you why.
John Checki
I'm a rather studious person by nature. It may not seem like it, but I always do a lot of research and I found that there are several different ways that people actually learn. And I was talking to a client of mine who was a chief lobbyist for a major company and he's a brilliant guy and he kept saying to me I just don't see what you're saying. So I turned to the back of the prospectus and it had one of those amazing charts that statisticians are so good picking the right date to start. They look really good. Sorry for my sarcasm and he said I'm not now, I see. So obviously he was a visual, so I've always had diagrams, particularly I like doing 3D diagrams and color in things like that to make it kind of artistic. Sorry, I can't draw, but I can actually do charts and graphs.
So we have a procedure that goes into circle which is never ending in terms of getting to know you, because we're not so brilliant that we can say at hello, I have got a great idea for your money, yeah, congratulations. And I talked to those people and if you're on LinkedIn, you get about 10 messages a day from people who want to connect with you and then have a value add, which is not a value add, it's just a bit. Would love to talk to you. But we first get to know our clients, get to find out what they've done, what their values are, who has already picked their pocket, who they really enjoy, who their golden apple or eggs are, who their kids are the good ones, the bad ones and the ones they hate to talk about so we can give them some helpful hints in terms of that sort of stuff.
And yes, we do it in a humorous way, but we also record things and document every stinking thing, because I spent five years doing litigative support on a criminal tax and securities cases. So if it's not documented, it didn't happen. So it was absolutely that way. And then we send people a mind map which actually gives you a visual picture of you, your family and what it is you want to be when you grow up, whether you decide to grow up or not. And then we follow up and follow up like like made an ant that have nothing better to do.
JJ Checki
And that mind map is quite healthy helpful, excuse me because it gives a snapshot of who they are, where they are, where they're wanting to go, and it's a pretty good representation on one sheet of paper of what they want to accomplish and what they have accomplished. So it gives a roadmap for not just the early meetings but later on as well, of saying what's changed, Is this still what we're working towards? Have we accomplished that so we can check it off or move maybe categories and that's already now done and experientially.
John Checki
We had a case where you meet a guy. He's, by himself, never been married. He married somebody who is a widow, was a ready-made family, so he suddenly goes through the holy guacamole. He had no idea how much marriage would change my life. And you're thinking I know you're not trying to be funny, but that was one of the funniest things I've heard this week.
So we drew a mind map for he and his wife and we went over each one of their kids, and their kids had a lot more stories than I've ever heard before, which is really saying something. So I just said, okay, we're going to put a diagram together in terms of a couple of different trust ideas for you, because one of them had lots of assets and one of them had lots of stories, which is a common situation. And this person was not some incredibly knockdown drag out lovely woman, just two normal Christian people who just were lucky enough to find each other, both widows. He was a widow or she was a widow, which is a great idea. Kids, you can't hear anything If you are a widow or a widow, you're much better off with a widow and widow, or as opposed to, yeah, the hunters of the world. But anyway.
So we did that and that document changed over time. She started to identify some of the problems within her family and decided to take measures. It reminded me when my kids were in college and I married a lady who had a couple of kids and I was paying half the tuition and her first husband father the kids was paying half the tuition. And then one day I got really tired of doing that. So I invited my darling wife to go ahead and start to get a job and help support her kids college habit. And when she discovered that she was making money and hadn't turned it over to the kids, she really got on their case and helped them straighten up and what have you? And eventually cut them off A lot of interest.
Yeah, yeah, because once somebody starts to pick your pocket, so we kind of help people with their blind size. And for husbands that think they can do everything all by themselves, we are great stress relievers and we can give you peace of mind because when markets change or other things happen, instead of pointing that finger at you, she can say or you can say you better call JJ or John or both of them because it's their fault, or thank them.
JJ Checki
I'm glad you referenced that working towards peace of mind, but it also reminded me of another story is a body shop owner that's a client had given him one of the books one day and I guess this was before he became a client and gave him the book. One day he's in his kitchen or whatever, looking for the book and he can't find it. So he asks his wife, he goes what happened to the book? She goes I'm reading it. So and then fast forward a little bit. When they had something coming up financially, she said to before you do anything else, give JJ a call. So literally that generated because I got a book in his hand and then the wife's hand ultimately, and to have a game opportunity to help for their family.
Stuart Bell
This idea you were talking about Robert Chavini before, and the whole idea of influence and persuasion In the nicest possible sense. The book is telling people what you want them to hear and what makes them an ideal client for you, meaning that you can have them to death. The fact that it's delivered in a package which has an outsized amount of credibility for technically what is, and glued together pieces of paper from Amazon. It needs that message so that now when you're saying something to people, you're not saying it for the first time and it's almost like you're repeating what the author of the book said, although obviously it's the same person. So this idea that it needs it goes ahead of you and starts the message and gets people aligned to the thinking and then, if they're aligned enough to knock on the door or jump on Zoom, you're already 10 steps down the process.
The other thing that sprained the mind as you were talking this idea of the mind map. In the scorecard book that I've got for the book blueprint scorecard, one of the ideas there is a purposeful outline and I'm a big mind mapper as opposed to like nesting or drawing things out. So the visual representation, both the clarity in the situation as it develops and the avoidance of doubt and the unique way that you're packaging it. I mean, I've done lots of these calls and we've helped a thousand people and a lot of them are financial advisors. It's the first time I've ever described someone doing the KYC and again to know people type thing and then mind mapping out so as a unique tool to help the whole process, talking about that, potentially having it mentioned in the book or, if not in the book, mentioning it when you first come in and then reinforcing it all the way through the process. It's just a way of building on itself in a way that amplifies the instructions or that further.
John Checki
we learned over a period of time through John Bowen's work with group called CEG worldwide in terms of identifying the various types of people who accumulate wealth and which one of those you were that would be in my case and in JJ's case and which ones you really did not want to be anywhere around. And that was really handy. And on that mind map you can also, on the top of that, put down who this person actually is, which is very handy. And let them know that if we're trying to build a legacy, we're rowing the boat in the same direction and we understand that everybody who has at least three kids usually has that one kid. That changes your whole facial expression when you mention that kid's name, not in JJ's. He has three amazing children who are just well, well, well schooled and they're very polite. Even if they weren't my grandchildren, they're lovely people to have over because they're pleased and thank you folks, and they're absolutely amazing and of course they're above average like everybody's grandchildren, but that's another story.
But in terms of families, almost everybody has a reason why attorneys invented a spend thrift trust or a special needs trust and what we do to kind of underscore what check your financial dose is. We find people who think, whatever problem you have, one specific problem was the most interesting question they ever heard in their life and they researched the BG's out of that and they usually the top gun, whether it's Dean Jackson who comes up with more marketing ideas and one throwaway conversation that anybody ever talked about in your entire life and they just kind of have everybody in a state of awe because everybody who knows anything has heard of that person and wishes they had lunch with that person just one time and got to actually talk with them. And at least one of us has been lucky enough to pick the brains of some of the smartest people and their dues to pay to get to go ahead and talk to those people. You don't just hop in one day hey.
Tony, you got a minute that's not coming up, so when as you're paying your dues, and JJ is absolutely amazing at being in groups and making speeches and being on panels and he also publicizes the people that he sees on a regular basis, and JJ, why don't you highlight that? Yeah?
JJ Checki
it's something fun that I started doing earlier this year. I'd pop as a great example of sharing videos about everyday life. So I started doing that a little over a year ago, but more recently I started highlighting the people. I'm saying I'm at a networking event and highlighting some of the people who are there. So maybe it's a lady who's launching her company called Kid Cakes that her and her children literally brought about and took a video with her, shared it. So it's just us two talking say hey, who am I with today? And getting her share her story and then putting it out there.
Or it's the local coffee shop to chai for that we frequently go to. So just, you know, to highlight other people. Back to the give and the influence is helping other people get in front of the audience that they want to get in front of and we're going to get taken care of. People are going to come and see us in one way or another. So it's just great getting to highlight others and, in the process, build up community and when it's the right time for someone to talk to us, then they know where to find us.
John Checki
Which is how we actually pondered on in this podcast. Well, stuart was interviewing another fellow that I know from another group that lives in, of all places, england, so you two understood each other. I understand either one of you. He was talking about how we could do something and it turns out it's been my experience, having worked with people who worked on the atomic bomb and the New York rocket and other things like that Not Greg and just happened to be lucky to get in a battery charge. And a guy who worked at a lab said hey, John, what are you?
doing? Why don't you come to the lab they're hiring? It was 1967. An interesting time. But periodically you'll just run across people who really are amazing and if you highlight them they might remember you. I'll tell you the last joke on that. Perhaps and here it is If we do a bad job, or if you do a bad job, people will stop strangers on the street corner to talk about you. But if you do a great job somebody who asks you again and again do you know anybody who does that? You might actually mention that person's name.
Stuart Bell
Yeah, it's interesting the dynamics of the different way around. We talk about orchestrated referrals in a way of not having passive referrals hoping that someone will mention it, but giving them the opportunity to remember to mention it at the right time. Because most people's experience of a referral is they'll be talking to the referee, their friends and they'll friend will say oh, you know what? I was just talking to, Mary, last week, and I wish I remembered that you did what you did Not, because with all the will in the world you would like to have made that recommendation, that referral, but people never think, whereas the passion and the vitriol and the bad blood that comes along with the bad experience Years ago a couple of financial advisors from New York and they were from upstate New York, not the city, and people upstate New York, just like normal people with the people in New York, are even more chatty than I am in terms of a harsh sort of way, and they'll take that as a compliment.
John Checki
But the guys from New York said we don't ask for referrals. We say if you give us a referral we'll never call them. So if you have somebody that wants to work with us, have them call us, because I'm not not asking you for names, not asking you for a list, I'm not telling. I get paid in three ways, not doing any of that silliness. So if you run across somebody that mentioned this stuff and you think we could be a good fit for them, have them, give us a call. And here's the reasoning If someone reaches out and picks up that 400 pound instrument known as a telephone and calls a stranger about one of the most sensitive topics on earth, they're really interested in talking to us. But if a complete stranger calls and says Mary Lou talked about me the other day or you the other day, and she said you have a problem with your finances, wouldn't you like to talk to us. That's not going to work out very well.
Stuart Bell
That idea of making sure that it's a human to human contact in the way that it is as effective as possible for people. It doesn't take much to think about it, but it's some of the many people don't think about it because they're doing day-to-day business. So I really love what you guys are doing across the board, both in reaching out with the book as a tool to start those conversations in a friendly way. What JJ is doing with the video is highlighting other people in the local area, not only to give you the opportunity to kind of be an influence maker or conversation maker, but if nothing else, it's just fun and entertaining. I mean, life goes fast and if it's a drag every day then it's a much longer journey than if it's fun.
John Checki
And for those of you wondering why there's so many jokes or what have you, it's funny within where I talk. When I first started financial planning, they said to not be funny when you give a speech. And despite trying my very best to not be funny while giving a speech on financial planning, people would laugh and I'd look at them and say that is not funny. And they'd say that is absolutely funny. So then a friend of mine said you should go to stand-up comedy school to learn how not to step on the laughs.
So there's nothing frightening than anybody talking to you about your most sensitive topic after health, and that is about your money, because everybody fears losing everything, living under a bridge and regretting that decision that you made that cost you your family, your future and your home.
Stuart Bell
And I think it makes it much more accessible. In having those conversations where it's all doom and gloom and making people feel bad about their decisions or putting all the risk back on them so that they're not enthusiastic about making a choice Very different experience from bringing people along with the journey in a positive way, and I think that's what really comes across both in the book and, obviously, in talking with people.
John Checki
We also have some people that, despite being very good at not spending as much money as they make, even just talking about social security and some penting stuff, and they came up with the expression. One of the clients has been a client since 1992 and he's referred to me by his big brother, who was the chief economist of IDS American Express at the time, not making that up, and he said I want belt and suspenders on my investments I call them once a quarter to go over it and have for the last several years just assuring them honest to God, everything is just fine and there are ways to do that. And JJ, you've had it reached in case on that very subject where a guy got impatient with the fact that he was the only guy in a bear market that was losing money.
JJ Checki
Yeah, there's different product that will right fit for the people, which is the importance of get to know your client. So if, whether it's a client who invests in real estate and that's his business as well, well, there's certain things that can benefit him more, maybe covering his liabilities I'll just leave it at that. Or there's other investments that people are more interested in, the potential to gain what would have some protection as well. So there's definitely just finding what that pain point is. If someone doesn't care about some of those features, well, you go in a different direction. But if there's something that fits, it's finding someone tells me what they want and then finding what fits best for that situation.
So by no means I like to do this one, by no means is hey, here's a container, who wants it? No, it's. Who are you? What do you want? What do you want to accomplish? Now let me, if I don't already know the answer right away, let me go and research that with other experts who are passionate about what they do and bring the right solution to you and let's talk. So it's a very least. That to us is that is the backward, that's the way it should be done and is done.
John Checki
We do have two requirements of clients. So that is number one you need to have a sense of humor. And number two and this is absolutely more essential even than number one you have to be coachable. If all you want to do is what you've already done, there's really no need for us to infringe on the amazing work you're already doing without having to share our own, without having to share our own stories.
JJ Checki
I'm sure that people that can may come to mind in your own world of someone that you could help greatly but isn't interested in your advice. So there's no reason beat your head against the wall to see if in fact, it eventually you break the wall versus your head. So finding people who actually are coachable and willing to not just willing, but ready to take advice and take action.
John Checki
So so don't waste any time going to a donut shop and giving a talk on physical fitness.
Stuart Bell
And that, in a way, is another reason why books are effective in the funnel, because, even with the expectation that people aren't reading it cover to cover, but there's an expectation that they're receiving it, they're aware of what it is and at the very least, look at the table of contents to get a feel that they're in the right place. And anyone who's positively reading back the chapter titles to you or referencing things that you've written, that is evidence that they are coachable, because the people who don't want to know are probably not even going to go as far as saying, yes, I'm a reader and take the copy of the book that you're offering.
JJ Checki
I think I said that earlier I don't remember if it was pre-podcast or in the podcast is, even when I'm talking with someone and I ask if they're, if they like to read, they're a reader. Say yes or no and then say if you'd like a copy, here's a copy of the book and if they hesitate I'll go. I don't need to add to the stack on your shelf, it doesn't bother me at all and actually saves me money by not sending you the book. So no worries at all and just move on to the next. Move on with whatever we're talking about. So it's fun.
John Checki
Yeah, the process of 90-minute books is painless. They really coach you through it. They've been doing it now for enough years where they know what they are doing and their staff does too. There's a good fit. They kind of help you through it. And what we did to finally finish up with the book is they supplied us with some artwork in terms of what the cover could look like. And I learned a long time ago it's a much better idea to show the people who already like you and have done business with you and are still doing business with you say, hey, which one of these covers most describes us and resonates with you? And we did that, took a survey because it's always easier to find out. But people, not you, not your son, not your wife, not your grumpy whatever, we don't have any of those Like, but you're satisfied, happy, advocating for you, clients like and what a great way of involving people in the process.
Stuart Bell
Knowing that book is about to be created, they've got an engaged view of what, what's happened, they feel a part of it, a part of the family. So to then be able to go back once it's created and say, hey, thanks for your imports, it's finished now. If you know anyone who would benefit from that, just let us know and we'll get a copy. The great way of including people, which, again, is like he likes to bake.
John Checki
I've encouraged him and he's picked it up in terms of actually passing out various treats that he and his amazing, gifted and talented family actually make. The JJ and his family are skilled bakers for sure, and I've encouraged them to go ahead and do that. All I do with people is give them sermenettes and occasionally have to go over for some wonderful red sauce in the Southern Italian tradition.
Stuart Bell
I don't usually feel any resentment of working virtually and being either in Florida or Pennsylvania, but now I kind of wish I was a little bit closer to you guys. I must need lunch, because that sounds good.
JJ Checki
Oh, we came across, so I have to share this, since you just prepped or kind of introduced. It is. We have some delicious cookies on our stove, on our kitchen counter right now. It's a combination of s'mores, traditional graham cracker, marshmallow chocolate and chocolate chip cookies. I can't stand the recipe where you actually combine both and bake it and they're as good as it sounds.
John Checki
They're delicious and also JJ is helping one of his client friends with their business and that were actually our treats and has passed those out to people and sent those to people that are now in the office, because an awful lot of people like to meet virtually as opposed to in person. My widows and widowers much prefer meeting in person because they've already been stung and they have a sense of needing to have physical contact. So we are lucky enough here in the Dallas Fort Worth area to still have offices that still let people in. You don't have to worry about asking, unless you just want to have one.
Stuart Bell
And, like I say, along with everything that, the circle that you were talking about in terms of getting to know the clients and what's the right fit for them, being able to offer virtual and in person, it's just being adaptive to the times and what the individual person needs, rather than a one size fits all. I always say that time goes fast. In the podcast piece I kind of say, well, talk for half an hour and then we'll get to that point and see where we are. Even it's in already. It'd be great to get back with you guys at some point in the future and do a follow up. In the meantime, what's a good place that people can go to learn more about the organization, either just to see what you're doing or if they're in the room?
John Checki
I have displayed our website, which is not very hard to realize. It's checkiefinancialcom and JJ. Why don't you describe or display your phone number also, just for me.
JJ Checki
Well, yeah, for me, I would say that the LinkedIn is definitely a good place to go. So my name. So if I could figure out how to change my name on the screen.
Stuart Bell
But to LinkedIn yeah, if you look up there, yeah, so JJ check it, a third on me.
JJ Checki
So junior is actually my pop, so that throws people off. But yeah, so it's, that's fun stuff.
Stuart Bell
Well, I make sure that I put the links directly to both of them in the show notes. So thank you Listening both on podcast players, all on the website. They can just click straight through and we both do lots of videos.
John Checki
My videos are more centered around the doves that live in our atrium, the various herbs and they're all legal herbs that I put in pasta sauce not the kind of herb that you just thought of in terms of those of you that are into psych and my darling wife, who's in show business and sings with the new kings of swing and teaches yoga and spin movies and recorded and was a contemporary of Madonna but decided not to live in a castle in her old age, says why do you keep doing videos? Who on earth is interested in that? One of our clients not even one of my happier clients, with client that likes JJ a lot more than he likes me because I asked him too many personal questions, said I really enjoy those videos.
We encourage people to do videos, and JJ does them highlighting other people's businesses, which is a very generous thing that you do, jj, so congratulations on doing that.
JJ Checki
Thank you. I like doing a mixture of personal whether it's the rock climbing gym, a fun outing for the family, our kitchen baking s'mores, or more on the professional side, of a lesson learned in a particular setting or and highlighting others. So I'm having a lot of fun with it Once again, originally highlighted from my pop taking videos all the time. Then I finally realized well, this is a good way to get in front of people, so I'm doing that more now.
Stuart Bell
Well, I'll tell you what. If you want to view, can see me the links to both of those channels. I'll make sure I include those in the notes as well, because I think this idea that business is so it's easy to get stuck in the weeds on the day to day stuff, but if you can find a way to make some expression outside of connections with real people, it just puts much more of a human touch on things.
John Checki
And we do have the very last, very last point. Years ago I was shooting some videos and when you do videos in your financial advisors, tough to get those through compliance. So I submitted the scripts and what have you? And JJ and I you can see we have good rapport with each other because we've known each other all his life and the videographer said, oh, I'd love to shoot a video of YouTube.
And I said you know, you have no idea the trouble I went through to get that one. But so I said, just to shut you up, we did that. So I just pointed to JJ and said JJ, what have you learned over the last couple of years? And you can see a very proud father when it's on the YouTube and it's John Checke TV channel on YouTube where JJ reshotted exactly what we do, how we did it. And you can see a very proud father realizing that his son has actually listened to us and learned what we actually do and can actually say it all by himself, with no prompting other than just being asked a question. So that's a vintage JJ way back when he knows even more now than he did back then.
Stuart Bell
But the connection that you guys have got is fantastic. My family is still back in the UK, fortunately, my brother's in the US and we work quite closely together. So I appreciate that family connection and it comes to it. I can only imagine the sense of the clients have got when they're getting both sides and both characters and both approaches. It really is much more. It's a synergistic result. The thumb is far greater than the two big individual parts. Thanks for your time. This really has gone fast. I know I think I say every episode. It really has gone fast. It'd be great to check in at some point in the future. In the meantime, as I say, I'll put all of the links directly to you guys and the company in the show notes so people can find. But again, thank you so much. It's really been a pleasure, and everyone for listening. I'm sure you've got lots. Check out John and JJ and we'll catch you in the next one.
John Checki
Have fun and stay well. Thank you, have fun. Thanks, Stuart.