In this thought-provoking episode of CMA Connect, Alison Simpson, CEO of the CMA, is joined by Rhonda Barnet, CEO of Palette Skills to discuss the critical role of workforce development in driving innovation and productivity in Canada. Rhonda highlights the importance of including marketing in upskilling programs and delves into the early success stories emerging from the Digital Marketing Skills Canada (DMSC) program.

00:00:00:00 - 00:00:23:05 Presenter Welcome to CMA Connect, Canada's marketing podcast, where industry experts discuss how marketers must manage the tectonic shifts that will change how brands and businesses are built for tomorrow, while also delivering on today's business needs. With your host, CMA CEO Alison Simpson.

00:00:23:07 - 00:00:53:07 Alison In today's episode, we have a special guest who brings a very unique perspective on workforce development as well as the critical role it plays in driving innovation and productivity in Canada. Joining me is Rhonda Barnet, the CEO of Pallete Skills, an organization that's at the forefront of delivering the Upskill Canada program. With a background in industry, Rhonda has a very deep understanding of the challenges employers face in developing the workforce of tomorrow and the importance of creating a truly sustainable, innovative economy.

00:00:53:09 - 00:01:24:16 Alison Rhonda is very much a female trailblazer, having achieved great heights in very male dominated industries and institutions. She is a successful executive, entrepreneur, sir and director, as well as a key voice in Canada and around the world when it comes to skills of the future, workforce development and diversity. Rhonda and I also share our first. She was the first woman to chair the National Board of Canada's oldest, largest trade association, Canadian Manufacturers and Exporters, and I'm the first female CEO of the CMA.

00:01:24:18 - 00:01:47:20 Alison Rhonda joined Pallete Skills in 2021 to help Canadians build careers and growing industries, which is how our paths crossed. The CMA, in partnership with two of our member companies, Jelly Academy and Growclass, were awarded funding to upskill 1200 marketers and help them find new roles as part of Palette Skills innovative upskilling Canada program, which is funded by the Canadian government.

00:01:47:22 - 00:02:15:03 Alison In our conversation will delve into the origin story of Upskill Canada and the government's vision for addressing key skill gaps across high demand professions and industries. We'll also discuss the case for including marketing in the upskilling initiative and the early success stories emerging from our Digital Marketing Skills Canada program, which is led by the CMA. Rhonda will also share her insights on how upskilling drives innovation and her advice for aspiring leaders in our field.

00:02:15:05 - 00:02:24:14 Alison So let's dive in and learn how we can all play a part in building a brighter future for marketing and the Canadian workforce. Welcome, Rhonda. It's great to be speaking with you today.

00:02:24:16 - 00:02:27:08 Rhonda Thank you Alison. Thank you so much.

00:02:27:10 - 00:02:38:15 Alison I'd love to kick things off by having you share what government needs and aspirations led to the creation of Upskill Canada, and how does Upskill Canada aim to impact various professions and industries in our country?

00:02:38:17 - 00:03:01:07 Rhonda Yeah, thank you for that. It's a nice, broad question that I'd love to take some time on. So this investment comes from Innovation, Science and Economic Development Canada which used to be Industry Canada. So having come from 32 years in industry, I know full well of the issues that industry face around skilled labour and the skilled labou r shortage.

00:03:01:09 - 00:03:30:14 Rhonda So this investment was really about looking at the systemic problem in Canada, where, you know, on one hand, we tout that we have this highly skilled workforce and that we are second in the OECD in terms of tertiary degrees in the world. And yet we have this enormous skills gap, and mid-career workers are not able to keep navigating to that next job along the path in Canada.

00:03:30:20 - 00:03:59:21 Rhonda So while on one hand, we're making tremendous strides and incredible investments as a country in skills development, you know, at the early stages of a person's career, we need to do more to keep them connected. And I think from a manufacturing perspective of retooling, we don't throw away things. We retool. And that's what upskilling is. We want to be able to do small things in a fast period of time to ensure that workers have what they need for that next opportunity.

00:03:59:22 - 00:04:33:18 Rhonda We want to make the most in Canada of the workforce that we have available to us, so that we can actually compete on talent. And so that's really where this whole Upskill Canada investment was born, that this was an initiative that was put forward to Innovation, Science and Economic Development Canada. They put out an RFP in 2022. We were selected March 2023 to be the lead applicant on this $250 billion investment to upskill 15,500 workers over three years.

00:04:33:18 - 00:04:59:05 Rhonda It's the biggest investment in Canadian history in upskilling. And we're so privileged and honoured to be the lead applicant to really convene the ecosystem to do this meaningful work. So, you know, why is it important? It's important because, you know, at the root of it, we have this, these hot pockets of highly skilled talent that are underutilized. People are not getting their full advancement in their career.

00:04:59:07 - 00:05:32:10 Rhonda And we have all of these companies with job openings. And so our program is to really bridge that gap. It's to say, okay, let's look at the potential of the workers and these sort of short cycle programs that can get them the very specific skills that industry is asking for in a very short time. And let's put that together across the country, across sectors, make meaningful investments that are going to help workers achieve their full potential and help employers achieve their full potential by having the skilled talent they need to grow and compete.

00:05:32:12 - 00:05:39:15 Rhonda And when that works, then Canada can achieve its full potential with thriving humming economy.

00:05:39:17 - 00:06:11:00 Alison Thanks so much, Rhonda. What an amazing first and what an important mission critical mandate that you have through pallet and the Skills Canada Initiative and I really applaud the innovation that you, in partnership with the federal government, have developed in order to really meet that mission critical need. I'd love to have you share what led to the inclusion of marketing, especially digital marketing, in the Upskill Canada initiative and what data was used to showcase the importance of digital marketing in the skills gap in the marketplace.

00:06:11:02 - 00:06:35:17 Rhonda You know, when we set this up, we were given the sectors. We were given six key sectors to develop an investment strategy around. Those sectors are ag tech, advanced manufacturing, bio manufacturing, clean tech, digital tech and cyber technology. And you know, marketing wasn't specifically called out as a sector. But of course we know marketing is actually a crosswalk across all sectors.

00:06:35:17 - 00:06:59:15 Rhonda And digital marketing even more so, we know that this digital investment that we're making is really cross-cutting across all sectors. But you know, where did where do we sort of get the justification for this investment? When we were given this investment, we went to Deloitte to help support an investment framework for these funds that would have the most impact for Canada economy in these six sectors.

00:06:59:17 - 00:07:27:03 Rhonda And that investment analysis is available on our website. But that was very big macroeconomic analysis of, you know, where are the key roles and sectors that if we made investments there, we'd get the most economic gain for our country. And what we heard in that report, in our own report, is that digital marketing skills are critical for success of all of Canada's growth sectors.

00:07:27:03 - 00:08:03:00 Rhonda So it's in that report. And even though it wasn't called out specifically in our application process, your organization came forward and you built a very compelling case, a very compelling proposal, and you really highlighted the business need in Canada for digital marketing. And I remember this actually coming over my desk for review. And I'd like to maybe read some of the stats that came through that application that really captured our interest and our attention as we looked to approve various investments.

00:08:03:02 - 00:08:33:07 Rhonda So three organizations which are near and dear to me. The Conference Board of Canada, was cited, estimating that the demand for digital marketers is grown over 90% in the last five years. That's really compelling. And the ICTC, the Information and Communication Technology Council forecasts that Canada's interactive digital media space is on pace to require an additional 103,000 workers by 2025.

00:08:33:07 - 00:08:58:22 Rhonda So you submitted that in 2023. We're almost at 2025. So how are we going to meet that demand, that's compelling. And additional statistics from the Canadian Chamber of Commerce from 2020, 70% of Canadian CEOs report significant challenges recruiting and retaining diverse digital marketing talent with the right certifications and skills. So that's a very compelling business case that you presented.

00:08:59:00 - 00:09:28:15 Rhonda And what we know is that marketing is a really great example of a profession where skills are constantly evolving, and that's really what Upskill Canada is here to solve for is, as things are disrupted and changing, we want to make sure that the workers stay relevant, that they have that next skill to remain relevant in their profession, or to change professions, that they are given an opportunity to leverage what they have, add something small and have a vibrant new career.

00:09:28:15 - 00:09:50:20 Rhonda So I think this investment, it ticked all of those boxes and we're very excited. And I think we're going to talk a little bit later on about this specific investment. But we do know that the the investments that are made in this program, they are cross-cutting across all sectors. So it's a great project for Upskill Canada. It's a great project for Canada.

00:09:50:22 - 00:10:22:05 Alison Thanks for and and I really appreciate you and your team being open to the submission that we made and the importance of upskilling in marketing. There is no industry in Canada that isn't going through dramatic change today, I would say, and clearly I have a bias, but think having been worked across a number of different industries, the role of marketing and the number of external pressures and the amount of change that we as a profession are grappling with really is significantly more than most other industries.

00:10:22:05 - 00:10:42:14 Alison And it really speaks to the need to upskill marketers and make sure that they can continue to have the skills that they need to thrive and help the businesses that they represent grow. And we're certainly seeing that in the high demand for the three programs that we're offering as part of the Digital Marketing Skills Canada initiative. And we can talk about that a little bit later.

00:10:42:16 - 00:10:59:06 Alison Now, I would love you to talk about why workforce development is critical for fueling innovation in Canada, and also how can upskilling programs like ours, the Digital Marketing Skills Canada, help address Canada's productivity gap, especially as it relates to innovation?

00:10:59:08 - 00:11:24:05 Rhonda Yeah, so when I think about workforce development, I actually like to use workforce innovation. I'm going around the country right now talking about the need for workforce innovation, but I've really started talking about it in terms of productivity. There's a lot of conversations in Canada right now about productivity and lagging productivity for our country. I think about productivity as a three legged stool.

00:11:24:07 - 00:11:53:04 Rhonda There's research and development and investments there by companies. There's new technologies that are leveraged through companies, and then there's people that need the skills to take advantage of those new technologies and to do that research and development, to develop that next technology, to develop that next product. So if we're going to think about productivity in Canada, let's not just think about technology and how we're going to have more, better technology.

00:11:53:06 - 00:12:24:16 Rhonda We need humans to do that. And so we have a three legged stool in Canada around productivity. And really it's almost a bit of a chicken and egg because we can't develop those technologies if we don't have the skilled workers to deploy and companies to do that research and development and to leverage new technologies and companies. You know, when you think about productivity, it's really about creating more output and more value with less input.

00:12:24:18 - 00:13:03:19 Rhonda And, you know, when we really give people high level, specific skills to do the job, to do a better job, to do a higher quality job, that's an advancement for the country, that's an advancement for the worker. And so I really like to think about workforce development and workforce innovation as a big lever in productivity in Canada. So how are we looking at solving this problem at Pallette, you know, through our investments and your investment being being one of those. We're really looking at this pool of workers in Canada that are these high potential people that aren't being seen for their full potential.

00:13:03:19 - 00:13:35:19 Rhonda And we think about all of these unfilled jobs. And as I said in the opening, we're here to bridge that gap between the skills gap and industry needs. That's what we're here to do in Canada. We want to elevate the standard of upskilling because we want to demonstrate that with partners like you that we can design short cycle, quick programs to get workers the skills they need, where they're at right now and deploy them into the workforce quickly. And again, that's such a big lever in productivity.

00:13:35:19 - 00:13:53:09 Rhonda When we think about the double drag of people not having their full potential, it's a drag on the economy and we're going to make quick investments and we're going to then be able to lift and see a double win on the economy when workers and employers achieve their full potential. So that's what our investments are aimed to do.

00:13:53:11 - 00:14:21:16 Rhonda And we know that to solve this, we need to leverage our our highly diverse, highly skilled and highly motivated workforce so that we can ensure that workers are getting the right skills at the right time in their working lives. And we need to be thinking about workers, as you know, in terms of their whole working lives. It's not like you go to school for 3 or 4 years, and then you're just dumped into the workforce for 30 or 40 years, and you're fine with just small fine tuning or training.

00:14:21:16 - 00:14:42:20 Rhonda We think about upskilling is really elevating a person. So that's what Upskill Canada's here to do. That's how we think about being innovative in terms of workforce development, that we're really going to use these investments to help Canadians make the most of their working lives and help companies access the skills they need at the time they need them to compete and grow.

00:14:42:22 - 00:14:50:13 Rhonda And this is what we need to innovate on the Canadian economy and around productivity in Canada.

00:14:50:15 - 00:15:27:02 Alison So well said, Rhonda, and when I think about my finishing my schooling and 25 plus years later, how much the profession, the our consumers, the marketplace has evolved. If I had thought that what I knew when I finished school was all I would need, I would have been out of a career, this career decades ago. So that ongoing learning and upskilling is so important to us as a country to benefiting our ability to innovate and drive our economy, and also for the individual from a job satisfaction and job growth.

00:15:27:04 - 00:15:54:08 Alison I will say one of the most rewarding things about the training we're doing through the DMSC initiative is seeing firsthand and talking to the learners as they're going through one of our three programs, as they're getting support in their job search and as they're landing their job, there is nothing more rewarding than to see the impact we're having a very personal level, too, and often on underrepresented groups.

00:15:54:10 - 00:16:21:11 Alison That is such a core mandate and mission for, I know, for Upskill Canada, for Palette, and certainly for the CMA as well. So to see the positive impact other national as well as an individual basis speaks volumes about the importance of the program and company that you're leading. Now I would love you to share what kind of impact you envision pilots upskilling initiatives will have on the broader Canadian economy.

00:16:21:13 - 00:17:01:13 Rhonda Yeah, I just love this question. I love to answer this question, and I want to just keep going back to this concept of potential because it's really about potential. Canada has so much potential. We have great humans, great workers in our country, highly skilled workers, and we have amazing companies in Canada. And if we're going to achieve our full potential as a country, we have to make sure that workers are able to achieve their full potential, that they are seen for the jobs of the future, that they are seen for that next job, that they are not pigeonholed because of the kind of experience that they've had to date or the country that they came

00:17:01:13 - 00:17:24:03 Rhonda from, that they don't have Canadian experience. We need humans to be seen for their full potential, so that companies can achieve their full potential and Canada can achieve its full potential. So to me, that is the greatest impact that we can have through this investment. But this investment is just a drop in the bucket. I do know that, but it's an important one and it's a national one.

00:17:24:05 - 00:17:50:07 Rhonda And so this investment is going to change the lives of at least 15,500 workers in Canada, will get access to these upskilling programs across sectors, across our nation. And the goal is to have 75% of those workers achieve job placement. So that's the real differentiator. That's the real impact here is that we're not looking to put bums on seats in training programs in Canada.

00:17:50:09 - 00:18:18:14 Rhonda Lots of organizations can do that. We really want pointed upskilling programs, high potential workers that want to take those programs and land in a job and make sure that everything that we are doing and investing in is leading to those job outcomes. We have significant targets for equity deserving groups within our our investment mandate, and all delivery partners are contracted to ensure that they're meeting those.

00:18:18:14 - 00:18:34:14 Rhonda And I would like to say that we are knocking those out of the park. So I want to give you a few stats from our early wins on this investment. And we're only one year into the program. And, you know, it took several months to get off the ground and to make the formal investments with organizations like yours.

00:18:34:14 - 00:18:57:08 Rhonda So we expect to hear so many more stats coming out in the next few months around impact and job placement. But right now, what we're seeing is that 94% of our participants have identified as belonging to one or more of the equity deserving groups that we have been contracted to to fulfill. So that's that's really amazing. And this one blows my mind.

00:18:57:08 - 00:19:18:13 Rhonda 52.3% of them were women, because when we were given this mandate and trying to figure out in all these technology sectors that we're serving, how are we going to attract 50% women? How are we going to think about the population, which I think is 52% of women in the country, that that we can do that. And guess what?

00:19:18:13 - 00:19:42:18 Rhonda Right now we're doing that and we're pretty excited about that. We've already upskilled through our programs, around 3000 workers. And in that data, we're seeing that 52% through all delivery partners are women. So that excites me because of all the work that I did around women in manufacturing. 84% of those have agreed that the program gave them the technical skills that they need to compete.

00:19:42:18 - 00:20:07:04 Rhonda So these programs are relevant, and that's really exciting. 86% said that the program gave them the professional skills to compete, and more than 90% said that they would recommend the program to others. So what we're doing is making a difference in people's lives, and that is going to translate to jobs, and that's what we'll be tracking next. But that's a broad scope of the investments.

00:20:07:04 - 00:20:28:16 Rhonda You know, I'd really like to spend some time talking about your investment. Alison, I'd really like to hear about what you're doing with this digital marketing program that where we've made an investment through Upskill Canada. I want to hear about some of the insights and early successes and love for you to share with me and share with the country what you're doing and what you're achieving.

00:20:28:18 - 00:20:56:00 Alison Rhonda, I am more than happy to have the tables turned on me and switch roles to the interviewee instead of the interviewer, so thank you very much for the question. So I will start by saying that earlier you called out the importance of mid-career upskilling. So part of our Digital Marketing Skills Canada consortium, we have three different programs, but two of them are focused on that specific need, that mid-market need because we, like you, know there's a mission critical demand there.

00:20:56:02 - 00:21:17:09 Alison And I'm also very happy to say from a diversity perspective, you're doing very well. On the female side, we're doing even better. We're sitting at about 65% of our learners are female, and we have over 80% of all of the learners that are participating to date in our program are from underrepresented groups. And we're performing quite well as BIPOC, too.

00:21:17:09 - 00:21:50:10 Alison So we're very, very happy that collectively and also our program are over achieving the targets on the diversity side to0. So we're only six months in. We just celebrated our six month anniversary on the program. We started in January, and the beginning point was having our consortium build, launch and ramp up three upskilling marketing programs to create new pathways for junior through that important mid-market and more senior career marketing talent into Canada's very dynamic digital marketing space.

00:21:50:12 - 00:22:18:16 Alison The CMA is absolutely thrilled that we're partnering with two other leaders in delivering these three distinct training programs that are uniquely equipped to really meet the needs of marketers across a wide range of skills and experience. And as I highlighted earlier, the marketing profession is moving at warp speed. There are so many external pressures that are changing how we do our our work, and it can be very challenging for marketers to stay up to speed.

00:22:18:16 - 00:22:45:04 Alison So each of our programs is uniquely equipped to ensure that they can. And it also makes sure that our marketers who graduate can excel in today's very demanding and constantly evolving marketing environment. So one of our partners is Jelly Academy, and they're an indigenous-led Canadian company who are specializing in delivering training to junior marketers and also those that are interested in pursuing a career in marketing for the first time.

00:22:45:06 - 00:23:24:10 Alison Our second partners Growclass, and they're a female-founded Canadian company. They've got a really terrific track record for upskilling mid-level digital marketers. And the CMA complements these two programs with our Chartered Marketer program. The Chartered Marketer program is Canada's only professional designation for marketers, and it's designed for mid to senior level marketers. So one of the key benefits of our Digital Marketing Skills Canada consortium is that we do offer these three different seven week training programs that are very specifically designed to upskill marketers with very different levels of experience, from brand new to the profession, through to quite senior marketers.

00:23:24:12 - 00:23:48:03 Alison In our first six months, we've had over 1100 applications for our training programs, and we're on track to upskill over 470 learners. That's actually 70% higher than our target. And it really speaks to the high demand for the marketing upskilling that we're providing. We're training many marketers in transition and very focused on underrepresented workers for the program as well.

00:23:48:09 - 00:24:27:05 Alison So I'm happy to share that we're making a very positive difference there, too. And I shared some of those stats a bit earlier. But as I called up the the individuals, how it all ladders up to the overall impact that our programs having in the Upskill Canada program was having, has the potential to be such a game changer for our country and also at the individual level. Every day, every week, we're having more people graduate from one of our programs and to talk to them about the positive impact we're having, to share and support them through their career journey, and to see the satisfaction they're landing new roles and really seeing their career trajectory

00:24:27:05 - 00:24:58:05 Alison change for the positive is truly one of the most rewarding parts of my job. So on that, we're supporting our learners and graduates through their job search, and really ensuring that they have the important networking and interviewing skills and that's something that is a key focus of the consortium. I know of the bigger Upskill Canada program as well. And then our all graduates also benefit from a one year membership with the CMA, which makes it really easy for them to network, to continue to learn, and to be part of a thriving national marketing community.

00:24:58:07 - 00:25:21:18 Alison We're also very proud that 241 of our learners have already been placed in jobs.

Rhonda Wow.

Alison That's over 50% of all of our learners to date, and there are quite a few learners that are still finishing their programs, so haven't been able to focus as fully on their job search yet. So with that, we are very much on track to exceed your target and to have more than 80% of our graduates placed in new roles within six months of graduating.

00:25:21:18 - 00:25:31:05 Alison And that is such an important mandate for the CMA and our partners in the consortium. And I know it's certainly an important mandate for you and Palette as well.

00:25:31:06 - 00:25:52:23 Rhonda Wow, congratulations, Alison. That's just so exciting. And, you know, this is such a great example of elevating the standard of upskilling in Canada. You're doing it. You're knocking it out of the park. We've made this investment with you. You did all of the right things. You found the right curriculum that industry was looking for and the right kind of people to put through those programs.

00:25:53:01 - 00:26:13:06 Rhonda And they're succeeding, and they're completing those programs, and they're getting jobs in Canada, and they're working for companies to help those companies grow and prosper. So congratulations. This is exactly what we're hoping for in this investment. And thank you for helping to set the standard of upskilling in Canada.

00:26:13:08 - 00:26:46:10 Alison It's truly our pleasure and is very much a team effort. We have such great partners in our consortium, and it really shows the power of bringing together talented organizations and consortiums so that we can have the biggest possible impact. One of the other things that we launched last month was a talent pipeline, because with all of these great graduates and newly upskilled marketers across from very junior to quite senior people, we know that we want to make it as easy as possible for employers who are looking for these roles to find top talent.

00:26:46:10 - 00:27:09:07 Alison So we have a talent database that is easily accessible and easily searchable, and we're seeing very good feedback and uptake from not just the members of the Canadian Marketing Association, but it's open to employers across the country of all sizes. And it's such a powerful way to make sure that you're getting the right talent, and the most recently upskill talent to really help your business succeed.

00:27:09:09 - 00:27:25:01 Alison So, Rhonda, you've been very generous with your time today, and I'd love to ask you two questions before we close out. As a female CEO of a significant and dynamic organization, and one that's setting new firsts in our country, what do you attribute your success to?

00:27:25:03 - 00:27:48:17 Rhonda Yeah, that's a that's a really great question. You know, people think that I climbed a lot of ladders to get here, but I didn't I didn't, I didn't climb big corporate ladders to be the CEO of a national not for profit. But I did big things and I did hard things. And, and the way that I was able to do those things was through a lot of sponsorship and mentorship.

00:27:48:19 - 00:28:05:04 Rhonda You know, I came from a blue collar family, was the first to go to university, in my entire family and I took a degree in mathematics, because I was good in mathematics. I didn't know what job it would lead me to. But people mentored and coached me and helped me along the way to help me achieve my full potential.

00:28:05:04 - 00:28:47:22 Rhonda And it's really been my personal story that I could achieve more than I could see for myself. That there was this vision of myself that others could see as well, and I could learn to see that for myself. And I can have the confidence that I could do those things and follow that path. And so that's really what we're here to do in Upskill Canada, is to make sure that people see pathways for their future, that they don't get stuck, that because of their experience or their family of origin, that they're stuck in one place, that I think employment is the greatest success to break down barriers in, in our economy.

00:28:48:00 - 00:29:08:12 Rhonda And so we're here to really make sure that people are seen for their full potential. And that's been my own story. So it's so gratifying to have lived that myself and to now be able to do that for others. So when I was with the Canadian Manufacturers and Exporters and running Women in Manufacturing, it was a really big policy initiative.

00:29:08:12 - 00:29:30:11 Rhonda And I had so many companies and people interested, and I got on the world stage with this. And and what I found, though, was as I was doing all of that work at a policy level to really bring attention and awareness to this, that real women would stand at my feet and say like, how? How do I do it?

00:29:30:13 - 00:29:53:23 Rhonda And so now through Upskill Canada, we have investments and tools to help people facing barriers to employment to access those programs and to be seen for better employment. So that's really my personal story. Like, who knew when I was growing up that I'd be the CEO of a national not for profit, but I did big things and I did them well, and I've had to learn to have confidence in my abilities.

00:29:53:23 - 00:30:04:03 Rhonda And lots of good people have put me on their shoulders to to ensure that I could see it and feel it, and to mentor and support me in my success.

00:30:04:05 - 00:30:26:12 Alison I love that you've come full circle. I also love you've done big things, but you also called out, you've done hard things and that's such an important part of growing your career and ultimately succeeding. And the other one that you've shared that really resonated with me from my personal experience is having people who believed in you and helped you see potential in yourself that you didn't, couldn't see without them.

00:30:26:14 - 00:30:42:17 Alison And to your point, Upskill Canada being able to help people over 15,000 people in Canada see that potential in themselves and really accelerate their career. My last question is, what advice would you give our listeners who are aspiring to leadership roles?

00:30:42:19 - 00:31:04:20 Rhonda Well, I think it's believe in yourself, have a vision for your future and take steps towards it. Like, I think you know, you don't always get invited in. Sometimes you have to take that step yourself and take the initiative. And so programs like Upskill Canada can help you. You can go and search all of the programs that we have in Canada and invest in yourself.

00:31:04:23 - 00:31:37:15 Rhonda These programs have very low barrier to entry. They're mostly subsidized that you can go and and be matched with programs to help you take that next step. And I think, you know, workers in Canada need to think about keeping current and taking more steps on their path and not getting stuck and not being fixed and, and have bold visions for yourself and go out there and and try to make it happen, because Canada is a great country to make that happen, frankly.

00:31:37:16 - 00:31:45:08 Rhonda I think there's a lot of opportunity in this country for people who want to be leaders, to be seen as leaders.

00:31:45:10 - 00:32:11:16 Alison Rhonda, it has been an absolute pleasure speaking with you. Thank you for your partnership and on behalf of the Canadian Marketing Association and also our DMSC consortium, we are thrilled to be part of the mission that you've seen for Canada and really helping to upskill our profession and help advance our economy and make sure our businesses are highly competitive and thriving, both on a national and a global basis.

00:32:11:18 - 00:32:13:19 Alison So thank you, thank you, thank you.

00:32:13:21 - 00:32:20:02 Rhonda Thank you, Alison.

00:32:20:04 - 00:32:32:18 Presenter Thanks for joining us. Be sure to visit the CMA.ca and sign up for your free My CMA account. It's a great way to stay connected and benefit from the latest marketing thought leadership, news, and industry trends.