In this episode of Bombardened, Eric and Amy Barden sit down with Joe Barsana, King County Drug Court Manager and President and Co-Founder of the WA State Therapeutic Court Alumni Association. What begins as a conversation about the blurry line between crime and crisis quickly becomes a masterclass in why we fail to help people to change and maintain recovery.

Joe brings insight forged from decades churning through the criminal justice system in a perpetual cycle of crime and addiction — explaining how it really feels to live on the streets and the hopelessness that accompanies repeated arrests and overdoses. Eric and Joe discuss how police officers are often tasked to be the first responder to addiction, homelessness, or mental illness, and inadequacy of the criminal justice system to address root causes of these behaviors. He talks openly about his experience navigating drug diversion court twice, the crucial difference between sobriety and recovery, and how and when people successfully change and sustain a new way of thinking and being.

Together, they tackle controversial questions: What role should police play in recovery? Why does fentanyl keep winning? And how do we stop confusing treatment with punishment?

Does “tough love” work? This episode just might make you think!