Hey y'all. Long time, no pod. Here's part one of an honest chat with Shawn Vestal about how white people can have tough conversations with themselves and others about the work we all need to do in this moment.

Spurred by a column Shawn wrote about the backlash from a video posted by Catholic Charities CEO Rob McCann, which led to a sharp (and gross) rebuke from Thomas Daly, Spokane’s Catholic bishop.

SUPPLEMENTS

• Rob McCann video