In this episode, we continue our discussions with Paul Martin exploring the challenges of clean hydrogen scale up, the market forces and Hopium driving current government and industry activity. We discuss distributed production of ammonia and urea and the impact of diseconomies of scale and consequences of parallelisation. We reflect on alternative feedstocks, such as lignocellulose, with a passing nod to our mutual colleague Paul Bryan, and how Wright’s Law of the cost benefits arising from increasing scale and experience may not apply as anticipated by many in the race to scale green hydrogen production. We close out our discussions reflecting on the next journey with Spitfire Research, the joy and hazards of providing 'unvarnished advice', maintaining a healthy scepticism as part of the technology transfer journey and making sure the right resources flow into the right opportunities.