Dr. Deb 0:04
Today on let’s Talk Wellness now, we’re diving into the most cutting edge and misunderstood frontiers in chronic illness treatment. Induced native Phage therapy, or INPT and induced native microbial therapy. My guest is Dr. David Jarrigan, one of the country’s most innovative minds in biologic and bioregulatory medicine. Dr. Jaragan is widely known for his pioneering work in the treatment resistant Lyme disease and chronic infections and for pushing the boundaries of what’s possible when we stop fighting the body and instead learn how to regulate it. He is the inventor of multiple advanced diagnostic and therapeutic technologies including biospectral emission sequencing, matrix interface testing, chrono quantum testing, and most recently INPT and inmt, technologies that aim to activate the body’s own native intelligence to restore balance and eliminate chronic infection. Dr. Jaragan is the author of five books, including the best selling Beating Lyme Disease and trained extensively in Europe, Biologic Medicine and under Thomas Rao at the Paracelsus Clinic in Switzerland. His work challenges the conventional infectious disease model and raises an important question. What if chronic illness persists not because we haven’t killed enough pathogens, but because we haven’t restored regulation? This is going to be a fascinating and paradigm shifting conversation. But before we dive in, let me remind you this podcast is about empowering you with knowledge to make the best choices for your health. So grab your tea or coffee and let’s talk Wellness Now. So for those of you who have heard me before, you’re going to recognize my voice is a little froggy today. I’ve been fighting a little laryngitis for the past couple of weeks. So forgive me for my voice sounding a little bit off. You may see me drink a little bit on this episode just to kind of moisten my voice. I am totally fine. I’m not sick. I am just fighting this laryngitis that just will not go away. So it is clearly telling me something. But I’m going to keep pushing forward, bringing you amazing guests like Dr. Jarrigan today and I am so excited for this conversation. For those of you who know me, I’ve been treating Lyme for 20 years. So this is going to be an amazing conversation for me as well as you and we are going to learn some some great things together. So right after we get back from our sponsor, we are going to bring Dr. Jaragan on and we are going to have this amazing conversation. Today’s episode of let’s Talk Wellness now is brought to you by Health Tech Sauna. One of my absolute favorite tools for detoxification and cellular healing. If you’ve followed me for a while, you know I talk often about the importance of supporting your mitochondria and removing toxins, especially if you’re healing from chronic illness, mold exposure or hormonal imbalance. The HealthText sauna uses advanced full spectrum infrared technology that penetrates deeply into the body to help release stored toxins, reduce inflammation and boost circulation. All from the comfort of your own home. I personally use and recommend the HealthTech sauna in my own home because it’s medical grade, low EMF and built for serious healing, not just relaxation. And right now my listeners can save $500 off their own sauna by going to healthtech health.com doctordr muth hyphen R-EQ hyphen 25 so run over there right now and get your $500 off your own sauna because healing starts with detox.

David Jernigan 4:12
All right. I’m Dr. David Jernigan, and I own the Biologic Center for Optimum health in Franklin, Tennessee. And I’ve been in practice for over 30 years. I shook Willie Burke Derfer’s hand, if anybody knows who that is. It’s kind of infamous now with some of the revelations that have happened about Lyme being bioweapon weaponized. But you know, I’ve been doing this probably longer than almost anybody that’s still in the business in the natural realm. It chose me. I did not choose Lyme. Matter of fact, there were many times in my career that I was like, you know, cancer is easier because of the fact that everybody agrees, you know, what we’re dealing with. And in the 90s, it was a whole different reality where nobody actually understood that you could have Lyme disease and not be coming from New England. I had actually the first documented case of a Lyme disease CDC positive patient that had never left the state of Kansas before. So they couldn’t say that it wasn’t in Kansas. And so, so she had actually been pregnant with twin boys and they were born CDC positive as well. So it is transmitted across the placenta. We know. So the history of how I did all this was in the 90s, probably 1996, probably somewhere in there. 97 with this woman. I if you go into Robin’s pathology books from back then, which we all used medical doctors and everybody else studying, you know, there was basically a paragraph about Lyme disease. And on the national board tests, as you recall, it was probably like, what causes or what is bullseye rash associated with? And you had to guess Lyme disease, of course, but that was, you know, considered to be more in New England illness. And you Would never see it anywhere else. But here was this woman. I knew nothing about Lyme beyond what we had gotten taught in college, which was, like I say, next to nothing. And she would not let me stop feeding me information. I mean, you gotta remember, the Internet wasn’t even hardly in existence.

Dr. Deb 6:36
Yeah.

David Jernigan 6:36
Years. I mean, it was brand new. It was supposed to be this information highway. And so I started purchasing like a lot of doctors do. Even now, they start purchasing every kind of new supplement that’s supposed to work for bacteria. There was no product in those days that actually was Lyme specific. I mean, nobody was really dealing with it naturally. It was always a pharmaceutical situation and.

Dr. Deb 7:05
A very short course at that.

David Jernigan 7:06
Yeah. Two weeks of doxy in your period, whether your symptoms are gone or not. Which she’d had the two weeks of doxy, and her symptoms and her son’s symptoms were not gone. And so I absolutely just purchased everything I could find. Nothing would work. I mean, I could name names of products and you would recognize them because they’re still out there today. Which is kind of a sad thing that natural medicine is still riding on these things that have the most marketing.

Dr. Deb 7:37
Yeah.

David Jernigan 7:38
Sometimes the things that actually have the documented research behind it. I am a doctor of chiropractic medicine, and I specialized all these years in chronic incurable illnesses of all types. That may sound odd to a lot of people, but doctors of chiropractic medicine are trained just like a GP typically would be. The medical schools, as I understand it, got together decades ago and said, wow, if all we did was crank out general practitioners for the next 10 years, we wouldn’t have still enough general practitioners to supply the demand.

Dr. Deb 8:17
Right.

David Jernigan 8:18
Everybody in medicine, in medical schools wanted to be a specialist because that’s where the money was. It was easier kind of also to just focus on one part of the.

Dr. Deb 8:28
Body and specialize in that, be an expert in that one area.

David Jernigan 8:32
Yeah. So we all now have the same training. We all go through pre med. We got a bachelor’s degree. I got my bachelor’s degree in nutrition through Park University in Parkville, Missouri. And so, you know, when I ran out of options to purchase, I just used a technology that I developed, which was an advancement upon other technologies, but I called it bioresonance scanning. And I coined the term back in the 90s. It was a way to kind of like a sensitive test. You know, like you might think of applied kinesiology, then clinical kinesiology, then chiroplus kinesiology. Then, you know, you can just keep going with all the Advancements that were made, well, this was an advancement upon those things. So I developed, I was the first in my known world of doctors to develop a way to detect adjunctively. Obviously we can’t say it’s a primary diagnosis adjunctively detect the presence of given specimen. So we can say, thus, say if my test, it’s highly likely you have Borrelia Burgundy for a. But I had to have the specimen on hand to be able to match what I call frequency matching to the specimen, which was a brand new concept in those days. And so I was able to detect whether or not my treatments were successful or not. This is something even now that’s really difficult for doctors because antibody tests, even the most advanced ones, it’s still an antibody test, it’s still an immune response to an infection. And accurately. Some doctors will slam those tests saying, well, that doesn’t mean you actually have the infection. That just means your body has seen it before. Which is a correct statement, kind of. So being able to detect the presence and even where in the body infections are was a way huge advancement in the 90s, for sure. It’s kind of funny, I think about a conference I went to because I’m kind of jumping ahead because I ended up developing my own formula just for this woman and her children. And it worked. And I was like, wow. Their symptoms were gone. All the blood tests came back negative in those days. We were using the Igenx Western blot eventually. And the what was called a Lyme urine antigen test. I don’t know if you remember that because it only decades later did I meet the owner of Igenex, Nick Harris, in person. I was like, whatever happened to the Luwahat test? Because they took it off the market after a while. Honestly, we lost the antigen and couldn’t find. Find it again.

Dr. Deb 11:26
Oh, no.

David Jernigan 11:27
And so. But that was a brilliant test. It was the actual gold standard in those days. Again, the world, it can’t be understated how different the world was in the 90s.

Dr. Deb 11:40
Yeah.

David Jernigan 11:41
Towards natural medicine, even.

Dr. Deb 11:43
Oh yeah, like, like we think, we think it’s bad now. But like when I started too, I started in the early 2000s, like we were all hiding under the radar. Like you didn’t market. We would have never been on social media. We didn’t run ads, we didn’t do any of that because the medical boards were coming for us with whatever we did.

David Jernigan 12:05
Yeah, the word Lyme on my page, my website, you know, not saying that I treat Lyme, just.

Dr. Deb 12:14
Just talking about Lyme and it’s funny.

David Jernigan 12:17
Because once I had this formula, it was something. And I trained in Germany in anthroposophical medicine, been trained in herbal making herbal extracts, making homeopathic remedies in the anthroposophical methodology. And I trained with the Hahnemann versions of homeopathy, which is just slightly different.

Dr. Deb 12:40
Yeah.

David Jernigan 12:41
And so I was well versed with making some of my own formulas by that time. And so it was really something that I wrote on the bottle and I had to call it something. So I called it Borrelligen, which is still in existence and still a phenomenal herbal remedy right now. And to my knowledge, it’s the only frequency matched herbal formula maybe still out there. Because unless you knew how to do my testing, the bioresonant scanning, there was no way to actually do frequency matching. Matter of fact, a really famous herbalist attacked me online saying, oh, none of these herbs will kill anything. And I’m like, that wasn’t what I was saying. I was saying back in those days, I’m saying, well, if. What would the body need to address these infections? You know, not like, what’s going to kill the infections for the body.

Dr. Deb 13:38
Right, right.

David Jernigan 13:39
So it was a phenomenal way. But the Luwat test was amazing because what you do is you would give your treatment like an md would give an antibiotic for a week ahead of time, trying to increase the number of dead spirochetes showing up in your urine one day out of three days. Urine catch. So you, you wake up in the morning, you collect your urine three days in a row, and any one of those being positive is a positive. But it was a brilliant test because it wasn’t an antibody test. They were literally counting the number of dead pieces of Lyme bacteria. I mean, it was pretty irrefutable. So I had a grand slam on the Western bladder patients and I’d also have a grand slam on the Luat. And the medical doctors would say, oh, that doctor in the lab are probably in cahoots. Change the lab, of course.

Dr. Deb 14:38
Right.

David Jernigan 14:39
And I still see that today. Like, oh my gosh, the better the tests are getting, there’s still a bias. If you do your own research, if you happen to be a doctor who loves research and you’re a clinician, so you actually treat patients. Who’s going to write the research study? Well, of course, the doctor who did the study, well, he’s biased. And I’m like, I still can’t influence lab tests. Well, lab tests aren’t everything. People scream over the Internet at me. It’s like, well, no, the negative lab test doesn’t mean anything. I was like, I get that with the old Western blot testing.

Dr. Deb 15:15
Right.

David Jernigan 15:17
More sensitive tests, which are very close to 100% sensitivity, 100% specificity. So, meaning, like they can. If you have the infection, they’re gonna find it.

Dr. Deb 15:29
They’ll find it. Yep.

David Jernigan 15:31
And if they, if you have the infection, they’re gonna be able to tell you exactly 100% correctly what kind of infection it is. Back in those days, you couldn’t. You could just count the dead pieces. Which. Yeah, but it’s funny because when medicine does that, you know, mainstream medicine that’s backed by all the nice foundations who donate billions of dollars towards the research, their negative tests are significant. But if you fund your own, yours isn’t that significant.

Dr. Deb 16:04
Right. Or what if we call something a seronegative autoimmune disease like lupus or rheumatoid arthritis, because none of the tests are positive, but you have all the symptoms. Here, let me give you this $100,000 a year drug. And instead of looking for what might actually be causing the symptoms, that’s all. Okay. But what we do is not okay, right?

David Jernigan 16:28
Yeah, it’s a double standard.

Dr. Deb 16:30
It is.

David Jernigan 16:30
It’s getting better. I want to do tell the world it is getting. Some of the dinosaurs are retiring and making way for people who are more open minded to new ideas. But getting back to that woman, she. That formula that I made just for her and her son, she went online, which I had never been on a news group. Not even sure I knew what one was. Yeah, imagine I’m kind of that dinosaur that cell phones were like these really big things with a big antenna sticking out of it.

Dr. Deb 17:09
Yeah.

David Jernigan 17:10
So I thought I was pretty hot stuff. Just that I actually had a computer software program that was running my front desk. And even then it was an Apple Iie computer.

Dr. Deb 17:21
Right.

David Jernigan 17:22
Probably be pretty valuable right now if I kept it just being an antique. Suddenly people were calling my clinic because the lady with the twin boys that was, well, was telling people on these research, I mean, these Lyme disease forums and boards online. And I started going, oh my gosh. You know, as a doctor, it’s one thing to treat a person in your clinic. It’s a different thing to have your clinic name on the label. Like we all are supposed to write everything that’s on the label and all these guidelines. And I’m like, wow, I need to split this off. I mean, I definitely want to help people. And this is. I was pretty excited about the results we were getting pre treatment and post treatment. And so that’s where I developed my nutraceutical business in the 90s called Journey to Nutraceuticals. My advice to anybody thinking about doing the same thing, don’t put your last name name on it. Because every time negative anything comes out, there goes the journey can name.

Dr. Deb 18:30
Yeah.

David Jernigan 18:30
The herbal. You know, there’s just all these. And especially nowadays with all the bots that are just designed to slam natural medicine.

Dr. Deb 18:38
Yeah.

David Jernigan 18:39
And that is out there. And. And just ugly people. Or should we just say people with a different opinion? How’s that?

Dr. Deb 18:46
Yeah.

David Jernigan 18:47
That are being less than supportive. But it was amazing because by 1999, I presented my research, my first research. I’d never done research. This is what I would say to a lot of people. Go, my doctor doesn’t know what you’re doing. I was like going, you know, most doctors don’t do research. They don’t publish anything. Their opinion is their opinion, but they don’t back it up in peer review. Right. That’s what I always tried to do was back it up in peer review and publish. And so in 1999, I presented at the International Tick Borne Diseases conference in New York City. I’m telling you, it was like the country boy going to the city. I’ve got my suit on and I looked all right and my booth was wonderful and all these different things. It was just a big wake up call. Because what we had demonstrated. Let’s get back to the. And this was what I demonstrated with that first study was that a positive LUAC test. That Lyme urine antigen test for MyGenx was a score of 32. Meaning one of those three mornings urine had 32 pieces in the amount of urine they checked of dead lying bacteria spirochetes. Okay.

Dr. Deb 20:13
Okay.

David Jernigan 20:14
With antibiotic challenges. A highly positive was a score of 45.

Dr. Deb 20:19
Wow.

David Jernigan 20:20
When I would give one dropper three times a day for a week ahead of time and then do the person’s LUWAT test, we were getting scores 100, 200. And at that point we only had a couple, but we had had a couple that were greater than 400. Wow. Dead pieces. Where the lab just quits counting. They just drop somewhere over 400.

Dr. Deb 20:44
Yeah.

David Jernigan 20:46
Which when the medical system at the conference, you know, I was the only natural doctor in the world that was. Had any kind of proof of anything naturally that could outperform antibiotics. Imagine.

Dr. Deb 20:59
Yeah.

David Jernigan 21:00
And they were just. Oh my gosh. Incredulous. They’re like, I’ve given the most One guy came up to me, to my face, and he goes, I’ve given the most aggressive antibiotic protocols and I’ve only seen one patient over 100. I was like, that makes this pretty significant, doesn’t it? But it didn’t just, like, make us take off. Because guess what? In Lyme world, if a pharmaceutical antibiotic made you feel horrible, that meant it was working.

Dr. Deb 21:28
That’s right. We used to, back in the day, if you didn’t herx and had that horrible die off reaction for those of you don’t know what a hercs is. But if we didn’t make you hercs, we weren’t doing our job right. And we weren’t killing enough bacteria patients to feel horrible.

David Jernigan 21:43
And sometimes to the level of committing suicide.

Dr. Deb 21:46
Yes, yes.

David Jernigan 21:49
And I was the first doctor, I think, in the world to start screaming and hollering saying, stop using the worsening of your patient symptoms as a condition to good treatment. I wasn’t seeing it with my formulas because I was doing a comprehensive program of care. I think I was also one of the first doctors to say, we need to detoxify these people as we’re doing this. And you would sit there and say, well, sure you were. I was like, well, remember, there wasn’t a lot of communication. There wasn’t anybody on the Internet saying, do this, do that. And it was, it was interesting in those days. It was, how do you, how do you help the world heal from these things that they don’t know they have? So later, I actually had a beautiful booth at a health. A big health expo in Texas. I remember you spend a lot of money on the booth.

Dr. Deb 22:42
Yeah.

David Jernigan 22:43
And you’re thinking about it because you’re funding the whole thing. You say, wow, if I only sell one case, so at least cover my cost.

Dr. Deb 22:50
Yep. Yeah. You’re grateful for that, right?

David Jernigan 22:53
Beautiful banner of like a blown up tick’s mouth under microscope. You know those beautiful pictures of herbs sticking out and how they anchor themselves in your skin. And thousand people walking by my booth and they just like, keep walking because they didn’t know they had Lyme. There was like, they had Ms. Maybe, but they don’t have Lyme. And so nobody even knew. Why would I go to a conference in Texas? And I’m trying to say, no, guys, it’s everywhere.

Dr. Deb 23:23
Yeah.

David Jernigan 23:24
And everybody, you know, yes, you probably have this kind of thing if you are chronically ill, almost in any kind of way, kind of trying to tell people. This is again, in Robin’s pathology textbooks, one of the few things that it did tell you about Lyme was that it was called the new great imitator because it would imitate up to 200 or more different illnesses. So it’s been an interesting journey of educating people, writing articles, but it was interesting. The lady who I first fixed the laboratory verified everything like that symptoms went away, like all that kind of fun stuff. Her children were fine. They’ve been fine for years now. When she went on the news boards and the Lyme disease support groups, it created a war. Oh, my goodness. It was like, how dare you and say that something natural might actually help?

Dr. Deb 24:30
Right, right, exactly.

David Jernigan 24:32
And I even had one of those first calls with a marketing company at one point way a long time ago. And the lady got on the phone, the owner of the marketing company goes, I would have blood on my hands if I actually took your clinic on. Yeah, you can’t treat Lyme disease. Even the big, big associations that are out there are still largely that way. I mean, they’re getting better, but it’s just like, you know, a lot of the times, herbs are good, Herbs will help. Herbs are good, but they’re safe. So it’s still a challenge to present in mainstream Lyme communities, even because there’s this fear of doing anything outside of antibiotics.

Dr. Deb 25:31
Yeah. So let me ask you this. From your perspective. Why do you think so many chronic infections exist these days, like Lyme and the co infections, Babesia, Bartonella, mold illness? And we talked a little bit about herbs and why they antibiotics and things like that fail. But let’s talk a little bit about that.

David Jernigan 25:53
So it’s fascinating. When I trained in Germany, they said that we, as humanity has moved away from what they called the inflammatory diseases. In the old days, it was lots of high fevers, purulent pus generating bacterial infections. As a society, we have shifted from those to what they call cold sclerotic disease diseases, which are your cancers, your diabetes, your atherosclerosis. And they said, we’re starting to see what used to only be geriatric diseases in our children. That’s how bad it’s.

Dr. Deb 26:32
Yeah.

David Jernigan 26:33
We have suppressed fevers. We don’t. We don’t respect the wisdom of the human body. So, you know, the doctors say, step aside, Bonnie. I will fix this in infection for you with this antibiotic. And so what we’ve done with the overuse of antibiotics, and this isn’t me just talking from a natural perspective.

Dr. Deb 26:55
Right. It’s well documented.

David Jernigan 26:59
And I’ll show you. I could show you a presentation if we can do a screen Sharing about the antibiotic situation in the world because it’s really concerning.

Dr. Deb 27:10
Mm.

David Jernigan 27:11
But what I would say, kind of like an advancement forward is we are seeing mutated bacteria. You know, they talked about. Do you remember when they found the iceman?

Dr. Deb 27:24
Yeah.

David Jernigan 27:25
The prehistoric guy that’s thousand years old. Lyme bacteria. Like he had spirochetes, maybe.

Dr. Deb 27:32
Yeah.

David Jernigan 27:33
That isn’t modified mutated version. That’s just maybe the Lyme borrelia. Call it Borrelia something. You know, it’s a spirochete. But what we’re dealing with today, even under strep or staph, as you know, Pseudopemis aeruginosa, you name it, whatever the kind of infection a person has is not the same bacteria that your grandparents dealt with.

Dr. Deb 28:00
That’s right.

David Jernigan 28:02
Much mutated, stronger, more resistant to treatment type of thing. So I think that’s one reason. I think it’s great that we’re seeing Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. Bringing awareness to things that, like it or not. Yeah. Seed oils do create inflammation. And everyone in the natural realm, as you know, has been trying to say this for probably. How long?

Dr. Deb 28:32
Yeah, 25, 30 years. 20 years at least. You know? Yeah.

David Jernigan 28:36
You know, thank goodness for people like Sally Fallon and her beautiful book nourishing traditions that started, you know, Dr. Bernard Jensen’s books way back in the day, Dr. Christopher’s books way back in the day.

Dr. Deb 28:48
Yeah.

David Jernigan 28:49
You know, all of them were way ahead of their time saying, by the way, your margarine is only missing one. One ingredient from being axle grease. Yeah, I think that was Dr. Jensen saying that at one point, probably 50, 60 years ago.

Dr. Deb 29:03
Yeah.

David Jernigan 29:05
So we’ve created this monster. We. We live in a very controlled environment, you know, 72, 74 degrees at all times. We don’t sweat. We don’t have to work that hard, typically. And most of us aren’t out there like our ancestors were. So that’s making us more and more move towards the cold sclerotic diseases of which even Lyme disease is. Which. Yes, it has inflammation. Yes. But as a presentation, it’s very often associated with some of these cold sclerotic diseases of mankind that we see now.

Dr. Deb 29:46
Yeah. So tell me, what is phage therapy?

David Jernigan 29:52
Well, may I show you a cool video?

Dr. Deb 29:55
Yeah. I love that.

David Jernigan 29:56
I did not make this video. This is just one of my favorites because it’s from the National Institute of Health. Let’s see if I can just click the share screen thing and get that to pop up. That’s not what I’m looking for. But it’s going to be. So let’s go here. All right. Can you see that? Yeah.

Dr. Deb 30:18
Let me see.

David Jernigan 30:20
Modern medicine faces a serious problem. Thanks in part to overuse and misuse of antibiotics, many bacteria are gaining resistance to our most common cures. Researchers are probing possible alternatives to antibiotics, including phages.

Dr. Deb 30:38
So bacteriophages, or we like to call.

David Jernigan 30:40
Them phages for short, are naturally occurring viruses that infect into a bacteria.

Dr. Deb 30:46
The basic structure consists of a head.

David Jernigan 30:49
A sheath and tail fibers.

Dr. Deb 30:51
The tail fibers are what mediate attachment.

David Jernigan 30:54
To the bacterial cell.

Dr. Deb 30:55
The DNA stored in the head will.

David Jernigan 30:57
Then travel down the sheath and be injected inside the cell.

Dr. Deb 31:01
Once inside the cell, the phage will hijack the cellular machinery to make many copies of itself. Lastly, the newly assembled phages burst forth from the bacterium, which resets their phage.

David Jernigan 31:14
Life cycle and kills the bacterium in the process. Someday, healthcare providers may be able to treat MRSA and other stubborn bacterial infections using a mixture of phages or a phage cocktail. The process would be first to identify, identify what the pathogen is that’s causing the infection. So the bacterium is isolated, it’s characterized, and then there’s a need to select phage in a process known as screening of phage that are either present in a repository or any so called phage library that allows for many of the phages to be evaluated or effectiveness against that isolated bacterium. Phages were first discovered over 100 years ago by a French Canadian named Felix Derailles. They initially gained popularity in Eastern Europe. However, Western countries largely abandoned phages in favor of antibiotics, which were better understood and easier to produce in large quantities. Now, with bacteria like these gaining resistance to antibiotics, phage research is gaining momentum in the United States once again. NIAID recently partnered with other government agencies to host a phage workshop where researchers from nih, fda, the commercial sector and academia gathered to discuss recent progress. Nih. So that is, that is what phage therapy is in what I call conventional phage. Let’s see, how do I get out of the share screen?

Dr. Deb 32:58
Yep. At the top there should just be a box that says stop sharing.

David Jernigan 33:01
Yeah. So conventional phage therapy as you just saw, is a lot like what it is that we’re doing. Only the difference is they’re taking wild phages from the environment, finding phages anywhere, there’s like a lot of bacteria and then they isolate those phages. And like he said, the gentleman at the very end said, we put them in a library. And so there are banks of phages that they can actually now use. And one of the largest banks that I know of has about 700 different bacteria phages or phages in their bank that they can pull from.

Dr. Deb 33:43
Wow.

David Jernigan 33:43
You want to take a guess how many bacteriophages they’ve identified are in the human gut on average?

Dr. Deb 33:52
Oh, my God. There’s got to be millions different kinds of phages.

David Jernigan 33:55
How many?

Dr. Deb 33:55
There’s got to be millions.

David Jernigan 33:57
Well, in population, there’s humongous numbers, probably well beyond the trillions. Okay, hundreds of trillions, quadrillions maybe even, but in the gut. A recent peer reviewed journal article said that there were 32,242 different types of bacteriophages that live naturally in your intestines. 32,000. Okay, so if you read any article on the phone, phage therapy that’s in peer review, almost every single one. In the very first paragraph, they use the same sentence. They go, phages are ubiquitous in nature. They’re ubiquitous in nature. So my brain, when I find, when all this finally clicked together, clicked together five years into my research, I could not get it to work for five years. I just kept going. But that sentence really got me going. I was like, you know, if you look at what ubiquitous means, it says if phages were the size of grains of sand, like sand on the beach, they would completely cover the earth and be 50 miles deep. How crazy is that? How that’s how many phages are on the planet? There’s so many. They outnumber every species collectively on the planet. So it’s an impossibility. In my mind, I went, huh? It’s an impossibility that you catching a sterile bacteria. It’s almost an impossibility. Since the beginning of time, phages have been needing to use a reproductive host. It’s very specific. So every kind of bacteria has its own kind of phage it uses as a reproductive host. Because phages are. And this is a clarification I want to make for people, just like in the old days, we were talking about the 90s. I talked to a veterinarian that had gotten in trouble with the veterinary board in her state old days because she gave dogs probiotics and the board thought she was giving the dogs an infection so that she could treat them and make money off of the subsequent infection.

Dr. Deb 36:28
Oh my God.

David Jernigan 36:29
Nobody actually had heard of good, friendly bacteria in the veterinary world. I guess she said she had gotten in trouble and she had to defend herself. No, I’m giving friendly, benevolent, beneficial bacteria to these animals and getting good results. Phages are friendly, benevolent, beneficial viruses that Live in your body, but they only will infect a certain type of bacteria. What that means is if you have staff aureus, you know, Staphylococcus aureus bacteria, that bacteria has its own kind of phage that infects it, called a Staph aureus phage. E. Coli has an E. Coli phage. Each type of E. Coli has its own phage. So Borrelia burgdorferi has its own Borrelia burgdorferi type of phage. Whereas Borrelia mul. All right. Or any of the other Borrelia species, or the Bartonella species, or the. You just keep going.

Dr. Deb 37:39
Yeah.

David Jernigan 37:41
Has its own type of phage that only will infect that type of bacteria. So that’s, you know, when you realize, wow, why are we going to the environment? Was my thought.

Dr. Deb 37:54
Yeah.

David Jernigan 37:55
Trying to find wild phages and put them into your body and hopefully they go and do what you want want them to do. What if we could trigger the phages themselves that live in your body to instead of just farming that bacteria that it uses as a host? Because what I mean by farming is the phages will only kill 40% of that population of bacteria a day.

Dr. Deb 38:19
Wow.

David Jernigan 38:20
And then they send out a signal to all the other phages saying stop killing because they want 60% of the bacteria population left to be breeding stock. It’s kind of like the farmer, the rancher, he doesn’t send his whole herd to the butcher.

Dr. Deb 38:35
Right.

David Jernigan 38:36
Just keeps his breeding stock. He sends the rest. Right. So the phages will kill 40% of the population every day just in their reproduction process. Because once there’s so many, as you saw in the video, once the phage lands on top of the bacteria, injects its genetic material into the bacteria, that bacteria genetic engine starts cranking out up to 5,200 phages per bacteria. Who counted all those inside of the bacteria? But some scientists peer reviewed it and put it out there that ruptures and it literally looks like a grenade goes off inside of the bacteria. I wish I remembered to bring that video of a phage killing of bacteria, but it just goes oof. And it’s just a cloud of dust. So you’re breaking apart a lot of those different toxins and things. So that was the impetus to me creating what I did. That and the fact that I looked it up and I found out that phages will sun sometimes go crazy. I don’t know how to say it. Wiping out 100% of their host. It could be a trigger, like change the body’s ph levels. It could be electromagnetically done. There’s been documentation of, I think it was 50 Hz electricity triggering one kind of phage to go crazy and annihilate its host population. There’s other ways, but I was like, none of those fit me. It’s not like I’m going to shock somebody with a jumper cable or something to try to get phages to do that kind of thing. But the fact that it could be done, they can be triggered, they can switch and suddenly go crazy against their population. But what happens when they kill 100% of their host? The phages themselves die within four days.

Dr. Deb 40:45
Because they can’t keep reproducing because they.

David Jernigan 40:47
No longer have a host unless they’re a polyvalent phage. That means a phage that can segue and use one or two other kinds of bacteria as a reproductive host. But a lot of phages, if not the majority, are monovalent, which means they have one host that they like to use, Borrelia. So my study that I ended up doing and I published the results in 2021, and it’s a small study, but it’s right in there at the high end, believe it or not, of phage research. Most phage research is less than 30% people in the study, but we did 26 people. And after one month of doing the phage induction that I invented, which only appears to only induce or stimulate the types of phages that will do the job in your body, I don’t care what kind of phage it is, I don’t care if it’s a Borrelia phage. It may maybe a polyvalent phage that normally doesn’t use the Borrelia burgdorferi as its number one host, but it can to go and kill that infection. The fascinating thing is there was a brand new test that came out at the same time. I came out with the idea literally the same weekend they presented at the ILADS conference in Boston in 2019. It was called the Felix Borrelia phage test. So the Felix Borrelia phage test, because Borrelia are often intracellular, right? They’re buried down not often in the blood that much. And therefore doing a blood test isn’t really that accurate. But you remember how there’s like potentially as many as 5200 phages of that type erupt from each bacteria when it breaks apart. It’s way easier to detect those phages because they’re now circulating those 52, as you saw in the video, 5200 different phages are now seeking out another borrelia that they can affect. And so while they’re out in circulation, that’s easy to find in the bloodstream. So 77% of the people, so 20 out of 26 were tested after a two week period after only a four day round of treatment. Because according to my testing, remember, I can actually test adjunctively to see if I can find any signatures for those kinds of bacteria. And I couldn’t after four days. So we discontinued treatment and waited beyond the four days that would allow the phages themselves to die. So we waited about a week and a half and redid the test and 77% so that 20 out of 26 of the people were completely negative. Which you go, well, it’s just a blood test. Well, no, we actually had people that were getting better, like they’d never gotten symptomatic. We had one woman who was wheelchair bound and it took weeks, was able to walk and even ultimately wanted to work for my clinic. I didn’t want to write about all that. I wanted to write about the phages article. I probably should have put some of those stories because critics would say, well, you got rid of the infection, maybe, but did you fix the Lyme disease? Well, there’s two factors here that every doctor needs to understand. There’s the infection in chronic illness. There’s the infection and then there’s the damage that’s been done.

Dr. Deb 44:35
Yeah.

David Jernigan 44:36
I have these people that would come in and say, well, Dr. Journey. And it didn’t work for me. I’m still in the wheelchair. I’m like, no, it worked. Repeat lab test over a month says it’s gone, it’s gone, it’s gone. It’s like we would follow. And 88% of the people we follow long term were still negative, which is amazing to me.

Dr. Deb 44:56
And then they have to repair the damage.

David Jernigan 44:59
It’s the damages. Why you still have your symptoms.

Dr. Deb 45:02
Yeah.

David Jernigan 45:03
And that’s where the doctor has to get busy.

Dr. Deb 45:05
Right, Right.

David Jernigan 45:06
They were told erroneously by their doctor that originally treated them that they’d be, well, they’d get out of the wheelchair if he could actually kill all these infections. Well, it’s not true unless it’s caught early.

Dr. Deb 45:18
Yeah.

David Jernigan 45:18
So I love the analogy. And I, and I’ve said it a thousand times that Lyme disease and chronic infections are much like having termites in the wood of your house. If you find the termites early, then, yeah, killing the infection. Life goes back to normal. The storm comes and your house doesn’t fall Down. But if it’s 20 years later, killing the termites is still a grand idea.

Dr. Deb 45:45
Right.

David Jernigan 45:46
But you have the damage in the wood that needs to be repaired as well. All the systems. When I talk about damage to the wood, I mean, like, all the bioregulatory aspects of the body, how it regulates itself, all the biochemical pathways, the metabolic pathways we all know about, getting the toxins that have been lodged in there for many years, stopping the inflammatory things that have been running crazy, dealing with all those cytokines that are just running rampant through the body, creating this whole MCAS situation, which are largely coming from your body’s own immune cells called macrophages, which are not even. It’s not a virus at all. It’s part of the immune system. It’s like a pac man. And research shows that especially in spirochetes, there is no toxin. Now, I wrote four books. I think I wrote the very first book on the natural treatment of people with Lyme disease back in the 90s. Why did I write that? Because I wanted to be famous. It’s a tiny book, actually. The first one was I was just trying to help people get out of this idea that you will be well when you kill all the bugs. I was saying, you need to be doing this. If you can’t come to my clinic, at least do this or try to find somebody that will do this for you. And that ultimately led to a bigger book. As I kept learning more, I was like, well, okay, now at least do this amount of stuff, and you need to make sure your doctor is handling this, this, this, and this. And so the third book was like 500 and something pages long, and then the fourth book was 500 and something pages long. Now they’re all obsolete with the whole phage thing, because this just rewrites everything.

Dr. Deb 47:33
Yeah. Do you think, though, do you think the war on bugs mentality created more chronic illness than it solved because of.

David Jernigan 47:44
The tools that doctors had to use? Yes.

Dr. Deb 47:48
Yeah.

David Jernigan 47:51
We’re a minority. We’re still a minority.

Dr. Deb 47:53
Y.

David Jernigan 47:54
And for our doctoring methods, I never had. And you never. Maybe you did, but I never had the ability to grab a prescription pad and write out a prescription. I had to figure out, how do I get. And this was still my guiding thing. It’s like, how do I identify, number one, everything that can be found that’s gone wrong in the human body, and what do I need to provide that body? Like, the body is the carpenter that has to do the repair, has to regenerate, has to do everything. Has to get everything fixed. Right. We can’t fix anything if you have a paper cut. They’re in the doctor of the planet that can make that go away of their own power, much less chronic illnesses. So all the treatments are like the screws, saws, hammers. The carpenter must be able to use. So a lot of the time, doctors are just throwing the entire Home Depot on top of the carpenter in the form of bags of supplements, Hundreds of supplements. I’ve seen patients walk in my door with two suitcase fulls, and they were taking 70 bottles, 65 to 70 bottles of supplements. And I’d be just like, wow, your carpenter, who’s been working for 24 hours a day, seven days a week, he’s exhausted. There’s chaos everywhere. You don’t know. He goes, you want me to do what with all this stuff?

Dr. Deb 49:25
Yep. I’ve seen the same thing. And people thousands, you know, several thousand dollars a month on supplements, and not any better. But they’re afraid to give up their supplements, too, because they don’t want to go backwards either. And there’s got to be a better way on both sides, the conventional side and the alternative side. Although you and I don’t say it’s alternative. That’s the way medicine should be. But we have to have a good balance on both sides.

David Jernigan 49:51
And I will say, too, in defense of doctors using a lot of supplements, I do use a lot of supplements.

Dr. Deb 49:57
Yeah, I do, too.

David Jernigan 49:58
But I want to synergize what I’m giving the patient so that the carpenter isn’t overwhelmed and can actually get the job done. Like, everything has to work harmoniously together. So it’s not that. It’s not the number of supplements. And why would you need a lot of supplements? Well, because every system in your body.

Dr. Deb 50:17
Is messed up, and sometimes you just have too many cooks in the kitchen.

David Jernigan 50:23
Our clientele, yours and mine, they have been sick for decades of them.

Dr. Deb 50:30
Yeah.

David Jernigan 50:31
And if they went into a hospital, they honestly need every department. They need chronology, they need their kidney doctor, they need their. Their cardiologist, they need a neurologist, they need a rheumatologist. I mean, because none of those doctors are going to deal with everything. They’re just going to deal with one piece of the puzzle. And if they did get the benefit of all the different departments they need. Yeah. They go out with a garbage bag full of. Of stuff, too.

Dr. Deb 50:57
They would.

David Jernigan 50:58
Patients only. They’re not synergized. They don’t work together. You’re creating this chemistry set of who knows how much Poison. And I want to tell your listeners, I mean, you probably say this to your patients as well. There is a law of pharmacy that I learned eons ago and it applies to natural medicine too.

Dr. Deb 51:20
Yeah.

David Jernigan 51:22
But the law says every drug’s primary side effect is its primary action. So if you listen to tv, you can see this on commercials. I love listening to these commercials because I’m like, wow. I don’t want to say a name brand. I don’t know if that’s inappropriate to name a name brand, but let’s just say you have a pharmaceutical that is for sleep. After they show you this beautiful scene of the person restfully sleeping and everything like that, they tell you the truth. It’s like this may cause sleepiness. I mean sleeplessness and insomnia.

Dr. Deb 52:03
Yeah. And headaches and diarrhea and all cancer and. Yeah.

David Jernigan 52:13
Showing you little bunny foo foo.

Dr. Deb 52:15
Yep.

David Jernigan 52:16
Happy, happy people. They tell you this may create depression, severe depression and suicidal tendencies, which is the ultimate depression. So I want everyone to understand, you need to figure out what your doctor’s tools are that they’re asking you to take and they’re wanting you to take it forever. Generally in mainstream medicine, Right?

Dr. Deb 52:40
Yeah.

David Jernigan 52:41
They don’t say, hey, your heart has this condition, take this medicine for three months, after which time you can get off.

Dr. Deb 52:48
Yep.

David Jernigan 52:49
You’ll not fixing it. Right, Right. That on a timeline, there is a point, if it was truly even fixing anything, that you. It’s done what it should do and you should get off. Even if it’s a natural product.

Dr. Deb 53:02
Right.

David Jernigan 53:03
It’s done what it should do and if you get off, but instead you go through the correction and out the other side. And that’s where it starts manifesting a lot of the same problems that it has. Anti inflammatories, painkillers. Imagine the number one side effects are pain, inflammation. The doctor says, well, if you say, hey, I’m having more pain, what does he do? He ups the dosage. If that doesn’t work and you’re still in a lot of pain, which it would be, it changes it to a more powerful thing.

Dr. Deb 53:35
Yep.

David Jernigan 53:35
But it starts the cycle all over again. So when you ask me, it’s like, why are we having so much chronic illness? It’s because of the whole philosophy. It is the treatment philosophy of mainstream medicine that despises what you and I do. Because we’re our philosophy from the start is the biggest thing. It’s like we’re supposed to striving for cure. That dirty four letter word, cure. We’re not Even supposed to use it. And yet if you look it up in Steadman’s medical dictionary, it just means a restoration of health.

Dr. Deb 54:09
Of health. Yeah. We’re truly finding that root cause.

David Jernigan 54:14
I’m like, remission is a drug term. It’s a medical term again, look it up in a medical dictionary. It is a pharmaceutical term for a temporary plan or a reduction of your symptom. But because it’s just symptom suppression, it will come back. Remission is great. I suppose at the end of where you’ve exhausted everything. Because I can’t fix everything. I don’t know about you.

Dr. Deb 54:41
No, I can’t either.

David Jernigan 54:42
Yeah, my phone consults. I try to always remind people as much as I get excited about my technology and say, oh my gosh, I see so much opportunity to fix you, I always try to go, please understand. I’m going to tell you what most doctors may not tell you on a phone consultation. I can’t fix anything.

Dr. Deb 55:02
Yeah.

David Jernigan 55:03
From all of my tricks, I can’t fix everything. Not tricks, but you know, all my inventions, Phages too. They are a tool. You know, antibiotics. I think I wrote a blog one time, it should be on my website somewhere that says antibiotics do not fix neurological disease or I don’t know, something like that. You know you’re using the wrong tool, right?

Dr. Deb 55:32
Yeah. You’re using a hammer to do what a screwdriver needs to do. Right.

David Jernigan 55:37
And yet you could probably tell that you’ve had patients too, that they go, Dr. Jernigan, my throat was so sore and as soon as I swallowed that antibiotic, I felt better. I’m like going, how long did it take? Oh, it was immediate. It was like, dude, the gel cap didn’t even have time to his bone.

Dr. Deb 55:58
Yeah, placebo.

David Jernigan 56:00
It’s not going to repair the tissues that were all wrong. So I mean, that ulceration of your throat that’s happening, the inflammation, there’s no anti inflammatory effect of these things. So I digress a little bit, but that’s okay. I wrote an article that’s on the website that’s setting healthy expectations for phages because they want. We can see some amazing things happen. Things that in my 30 years, I wish I had all my career to do over again. Now having this tool, it’s just that much fun. When doctors around the country now are starting to use our inducing formulas. There’s 13 of them now, formulas for different broad spectrum illness presentations. I tell them all the same thing. I was like, you are gonna have so much fun.

Dr. Deb 56:53
That’s exciting.

David Jernigan 56:54
Winning is fun, you know. You know, mainstream medicine may never accept this. I don’t know. I feel a real huge burden though to do my best to follow a very scientific methodology. I’ve published as much as I can publish at this time by myself. I never took money from the sources that are out there because what do they do? They always come. Money comes with Stream.

Dr. Deb 57:21
Yes, it does.

David Jernigan 57:23
I don’t trust, I don’t trust. I mean, if you listen to the roundtable that Secretary Robert F. Kennedy did on Lyme disease last week, the first couple of speakers were like pretty legit. I mean all of them were legit, but I mean they were like senators and congressmen or something like that, I think. And then you have RFK Jr himself who’s legit.

Dr. Deb 57:51
Yeah.

David Jernigan 57:53
They were fessing up to the fact that yes, they were suppressing anything to do with lying.

Dr. Deb 57:59
Yeah.

David Jernigan 58:00
Our highest levels of marble halls and pillars of medicine were doing everything the way I thought they were. They were suppressing me. I was like, how can you ignore the best formulas ever? And still, I think Borrellogen and now induced native phage therapy are still. I believe. I’ve never seen it. I could be wrong. The only natural things that have been documented in a medical methodology in the natural realm. I mean, all the herbs that we talk about, you know, there’s one that was really famous for a while and it said we gave so many patients this product and other nutritional supplements and at the end X number of them were dramatically better. That’s not research.

Dr. Deb 58:57
Right. That’s observation.

David Jernigan 58:59
The trick there was we gave this one thing and then we gave high dose proteolytic enzymes. We gave high dose this. But at the end of the study, we’re going to point back at the thing we’re trying to sell you as being what did it.

Dr. Deb 59:12
Right. Which is what we do in all research, pretty much. We tried to manipulate it to do the way we want. Right in. In conventional medicine as well.

David Jernigan 59:22
Yeah, very often, yeah, in conventional medicine, definitely.

Dr. Deb 59:27
Yeah.

David Jernigan 59:28
And it’s kind of scary how many pharmaceuticals are sold laminous whisk because they’re. Yeah, there’s a new one on TV every day.

Dr. Deb 59:35
Every day, yes.

David Jernigan 59:37
Like who comes up with these names? They’re just horrible.

Dr. Deb 59:39
Yeah. You can’t pronounce them. You don’t know what they really do.

David Jernigan 59:42
Marketing company come up with some or something they go with and like I just made a million bucks.

Dr. Deb 59:49
I’ll be glad when that’s not on the TV anymore, which sounds like it’s coming. So That’s a good thing. Dr. Jared, again, this was really wonderful. What do you want to leave our listeners with?

David Jernigan 60:00
Well, you know, everyone’s calling for a new treatment.

Dr. Deb 60:05
Yeah.

David Jernigan 60:08
I have done everything I can do to get it out there scientifically in pure review, so that if you want to look up my name, I published an open access journal so that you didn’t have to buy the articles like pub mag yet to be a member.

Dr. Deb 60:22
Yeah.

David Jernigan 60:23
Look at a lot of the research. You have to buy the articles. I’ve done everything, open access so that people had access to the information. I honestly created induced native phage therapy to fix my own life. I used to think I could actually fix almost anything. Gave me enough time and I could not fix her first 10 years. She wasn’t bedridden.

Dr. Deb 60:49
Wow.

David Jernigan 60:51
People go, oh, it’s easy for you, Dr. Jernigan. You’re a doctor.

Dr. Deb 60:54
Oh, yeah. Right. Yeah.

David Jernigan 60:56
Oh, my gosh, how many tears have been shed and how much heartache and how much of this and that? I mean, 90% of our marriage, she was in bed, just missing Christmas. All the horror stories you hear in the line world, that was her. I could not get her completely well and very discerning woman. I say that in all my podcasts because it’s just amazing. It’s like every husband, I think, shouldn’t want our wife. That’s always right, right? Yeah. Not that you surrender your own opinion, but it’s like it was literally, I don’t know, what, six months before the ILADS conference in Boston in 2029, 2019, that she said, are you going to the ILADS conference this year? And I’m like, no. Been going for like 15, 20 years, however long it’s been going on. And I was like, nah, I’m not going to go to this one. And three days before the conference, she says, I think you should go. And I go, okay. Like I said, she’s generally right. And that I bought a Scientific American magazine at the newsstand in the Nashville airport, started reading a story about phages, and that caught that edition of the Scientific American. It was a good article, but it wasn’t super meaty. I don’t very deep on those, but I just was stimulated. Something about being in elevation.

Dr. Deb 1:02:22
Yeah.

David Jernigan 1:02:23
Walking your own mountains. I don’t know. I get all inspired and I wrote in the margins and highlighted this and that until it was like, ultimately I spent the entire conference hammering this out. And it worked, and it’s been working. It’s just amazing. It’s. We’re over 200 different infections that we’ve, we’ve clinically or laboratory wise documented. There’s a new test from Igenx called the CEPCR line panel. They culture 64 different types of infections and I believe right now the latest count is something like 10 for 10 were completely negative.

Dr. Deb 1:03:03
Wow.

David Jernigan 1:03:03
These chronically infected people. And so that, that hadn’t been published anywhere. So in my published article, remember I was Talking about the 20 out of the 26 were tested as negative for the infection. That doesn’t mean they’re cured. Okay. Remember, they’re chronically damaged. So how we need to look at it, you’re chronically damaged, you’re not getting infected. But with 30 day treatment, 24 out of the 26 were tested as negative.

Dr. Deb 1:03:33
That’s amazing.

David Jernigan 1:03:34
So 92% of the people were negative. Okay. The chances of that happening, when you run it through statistical analysis, the chances, when you compare the results to the sensitivity percentages, you know, like 100% specificity and 92% sensitivity of the, of the lab test, it’s a 4.59 million to one chance that it was a fluke. Isn’t that amazing?

Dr. Deb 1:04:04
That’s amazing.

David Jernigan 1:04:05
I’m not sure how many zeroes that is, but it’s a lot.

Dr. Deb 1:04:08
That is awesome.

David Jernigan 1:04:09
Like if I just say, well, it’s a one in a million chance it was a fluke. Okay. So lab tests don’t lie. You’re not done necessarily just because you got rid of the infections. Now that formula for Lyme has grown to be 90 plus microbes targeted in the one formula. So we figured out we can actually target individually, but collectively almost like an antibiotic that’s laser guided to only go after the bad guys that we targeted. So all the Borrelia types are targeted, all the Babesians, all the, the bartonella, the anaplasmosis, you name it. Mycoplasma types are targeted in that one formula. Because I said, took my collective 30 years of experience and 15,000 patients that I would typically see as co infections and put them into that one formula. So when we get these tests coming back that are testing for 64, it’s because of that. So there’s a lot of coolnesses that I could actually keep going.

Dr. Deb 1:05:14
That’s exciting. Thank you for joining us. How can people find you two ways?

David Jernigan 1:05:23
There’s the Phagen Corp. Company that is now manufacturing my formulas. That is P H A G E N Corp. Practitioners can go there. And there’s a practitioner side of the website that’s Very beefy with science. And all the formulas that were used, what’s inside of all the formulas, meaning what microbes are targeted by each one? Like there’s a GI formula, there’s a UTI formula, there’s a SIRS formula, there’s a Lyme formula, there’s a central nervous system type infection formula, there’s. And we can keep going, you know, sibo, SIBO formula, mold formula. I mean, we’ve discovered many things that I could just keep going for hours.

Dr. Deb 1:06:05
Yeah.

David Jernigan 1:06:05
About the discoveries from where it started in its humble beginnings to now. So there’s another way. If you wanted to see our clinic website is biologics with an X. So b I O L-O, G-I X Center, C-E-N-T-E-R.com and if somebody thinks they want to be a patient and experience this at our clinic, typically we don’t take just easy stuff. All we see is chronic, chronic cases from all over the world. Something like 96% of our patients come from other states and countries and typically have been close to 90% for my whole career. About 30 something percent come from other countries in that. So I, we’ve gotten really good and learned a lot in having to deal with what nobody else knows what to do with. But if you do want to do that, you can contact us. And if you, if you don’t get the answers from my patient care staff, then I do free consultations with the people that are thinking about whether we can help them or not.

Dr. Deb 1:07:13
Well, that’s excellent. For those of you who are driving or don’t have any way of writing things down, don’t worry about it. We’ve got you. We will have all of his contact information in our show notes so you will be able to reach out to him. Thank you again for joining me. This has been an amazing conversation.

David Jernigan 1:07:30
Thank you. I appreciate you.

The post Episode 252 – Induced Native Phage Therapy (INPT) & advanced natural therapies first appeared on Let's Talk Wellness Now.