In this episode, Jo is in conversation with film distributor Pat Kelman. Pat is also the creator of The Joy of Swimming podcast, which is where Jo met him, as they spoke about Jo's journey with wild swimming.

In this Episode:

• Creating human connection via cold water swimming
• The impact of sea swimming on Pat’s self-confidence
• Capturing stories and giving back to the community
• Pat’s vision for a self-development space
• Listening, and being genuinely heard
• Connecting as real people, not as egos
• ...and much more,

Find Pat on his website, or over on Instagram.

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Music credit: Joseph McDade