Sign up to save your podcasts
Or
Share Episode 282: Math Teacher Measures Up as One of the Best in the Nation
Share to email
Share to Facebook
Share to X
Share to email
Share to Facebook
Share to X
Or
Episode 282: Math Teacher Measures Up as One of the Best in the Nation
Her teaching time adds up to more than two decades in the classroom, every day dedicated to transforming the way students learn and experience math.
On this episode of the Supercast, we sit down with Riverton High School nationally recognized math teacher Melissa Brown to talk about her greatest passion and how it led her to receive the very prestigious "Presidential Award for Excellence in Mathematics and Science Teaching."
For listeners who would like to see the YouTube video “Operation Tin Man” created by Melissa Brown’s students and referenced in this episode, click here.
Audio Transcription
Anthony Godfrey:
I want to go back to something you said about your not being good at math.
Melissa Brown:
I struggled a lot being told I wasn't getting enough out of it. And I think the fact that I know exactly what those students are feeling like, never having that light bulb go on in class, not being the kid that can finish in five minutes. I think the kids take me a little more seriously because they're like, "Well, she had trouble and she could do it."
[Music]
Anthony Godfrey:
Hello and welcome to the Supercast. I'm your host, Superintendent Anthony Godfrey. Her teaching time adds up to more than two decades in the classroom, every day dedicated to transforming the way students learn and experience math.
On this episode of the Supercast, we sit down with Riverton High School's nationally recognized math teacher, Melissa Brown, to talk about her greatest passion and how it led her to receive the very prestigious “Presidential Award for Excellence in Mathematics and Science Teaching”.
[Music]
We're here at Riverton High School to talk with Melissa Brown, National Award-winning math teacher. Melissa, thanks for taking a few minutes.
Melissa Brown:
You're welcome.
Anthony Godfrey:
Tell us a little bit about the award that you just received. There are press releases, and this is very rare for someone in Utah to receive this.
Melissa Brown:
So it's called the “Presidential Award for Excellence in Mathematics and Science Teaching”. I was nominated, and then there's a whole application process. I found out two years ago pretty much, so I was a state finalist, and then it was just up to whenever the White House decided to announce the winners. I guess it took them two years to announce the winners.
Anthony Godfrey:
I remember talking about your being nominated and making it to the next level, being a finalist. I had no idea that this was connected. I thought that possibly you had been renominated, but hey, this is how the federal wheels turn sometimes. So tell us about this award, and you went through quite a process to apply.
Melissa Brown:
Yes. So I received an email several, I guess three years now, that said I'd been nominated. So I was nominated by Carolyn Gough, my previous principal, and it just said you've been nominated and said you can apply if you choose.
It's my understanding that a lot of people, after they read through what the process is, decide, no, thank you. Apparently, I was foolish enough to say, “Okay, that sounds good”. So then you have to submit a bio, a resume. It required several letters of recommendations from supervisors, parents, students. I think that was all the letters. And then you have to videotape yourself teaching and then write a bunch of stuff about that video answering a series of questions in like five different areas, I think.
Anthony Godfrey:
Wow, that is nerve-wracking. How many versions of the video did you go through?
Melissa Brown:
Well, I guess I don't know if I should throw somebody in the bus, but I have a funny story about that. So this will be the last time I tell the story because I promise I wouldn't.
Anthony Godfrey:
The people want to know.
Melissa Brown:
I asked one of our instructional coaches to help me out in the filming. So she'd been in frequently just filming me teach. And they just hadn't been what I felt was like a decent video that I felt I had a lot to say about. So finally one day, if you can imagine, she's like with the camera in front of students. I'm trying to teach and my students got so used to her being here, they ignored her. And we finished the day and she got really excited. She was like, “That was it. This is the one. It was great.” She goes, “Let's watch it.” And so we take the camera and we push it and it recorded all of five seconds of an 87-minute class.
Anthony Godfrey:
Oh, no.
Melissa Brown:
And I was just like, “Oh, dear. We have to do that again.” And she immediately was just horrified, very upset. So we both just took a break for a while and said, OK. That wasn't--
Anthony Godfrey:
It took time to reset.
Melissa Brown:
We regrouped. We recorded again a couple of times and found one that she was like, “That was really good. I think you should use that one.” And I was sick of filming and I was like, great. We're going with that one.
Anthony Godfrey:
Well, filming yourself teaching is– and then analyzing it on top of that, that can be pretty harrowing to watch yourself that much. It's a real compliment that with a video and that analysis and perspective from all of these different people that you've won this award, it's really exciting. How does that feel at the end of all this process, two years, all these years of teaching to receive some recognition for that?
Melissa Brown:
I'm not trying to be humble about it, but really I don't know that I don't do a lot of things differently than a lot of other teachers that I work with. I know I have been blessed to have some really great administrators that have supported me and helped me to, I feel like, grow in my job. You know, I had two or three great mentors. Bill Broderick at the time was a fantastic math teacher that I think I emulate him in some ways because everything he did was just phenomenal. Kids loved him.
Anthony Godfrey:
Tell me some of the ways that those mentors, those teachers, and administrators have impacted your teaching.
Melissa Brown:
I think first I just saw that they were really great at connecting with kids and the math came second. I mean, I know it's hard to believe that kids don't just clamor to learn the math stuff.
Anthony Godfrey:
It's the order of operations. You connect with kids first and then you make sure that the math gets through.
Melissa Brown:
I don't know that there's a good acronym for that, though, like the order of operations. We’ll make one up.
Anthony Godfrey:
Yeah, that's true.
Melissa Brown:
I just think they really showed me that it really is the most important thing, is just to connect with kids. And then the math comes second. I mean, how many times do we hear, when am I ever going to have to use this math? And I'm not going to lie to a lot of students and say, "No one's going to come up to you and say, 'Excuse me, could you solve this polynomial for me? I need to know the answer.'" And I'm not going to sugarcoat that for the kids, but I think there's such an importance to learning the processes of critical thinking and just the idea that I can do something hard, that I can progress through more difficult things, that I think it shows kids they can do hard things.
Anthony Godfrey:
A sense of efficacy. A sense of problem-solving.
Melissa Brown:
Yes.
Anthony Godfrey:
A deeper level thinking.
Melissa Brown:
Yeah, absolutely. So, I think they showed me that. I know, you know, I wasn't worried about, did they get the right answer all the time? You got the wrong answer more times than not, but look at the process that you did and how far you came. And that's more important to me, and I think that helps kids connect to me in a way.
I was not good at math when I was in school. My students don't believe me, so I'll pull out my report cards that have Cs on it. And they're like, "You got Cs?" “I know, they let me teach here. Can you believe it?” So, I just think that connection with kids, I think the principals I've had have allowed me some flexibility just to try things no matter how crazy they seem. ‘You want to do what?’ “Yeah, I want to do that. Can I do that?’ “Okay.” Nine times out of ten it fails, but it gives me some idea, and then I can try something else.
Anthony Godfrey:
I'd say nine out of ten times it works. No, I don't understand. But it does make a huge difference when you know you have that support to try something new.
Melissa Brown:
Right.
Anthony Godfrey:
And I love the creativity that you bring to things, and I'm familiar with that creativity. I'm also familiar with the way that you connect with students. You've had a tradition in the past, I don't know if it's ongoing, of creating a t-shirt at the end of your calculus classes. Talk to me about that.
Melissa Brown:
The AP exam's a big deal, and for some students that's the first time they've sat and taken a really difficult exam that covers months of effort.
Anthony Godfrey:
Yeah.
Melissa Brown:
And they're nervous, and so I would try to get them excited about it, and who wants to get up in the morning when they're nervous and have to worry about what to wear. So I said, "Let's make a t-shirt." And it started with us drawing on a t-shirt, and then we got more fancy and did iron-ons. So I've been doing it for a while. Sometimes they were very plain, and it just said, "Riverton Calculus." And then they got to where the shirts make no sense whatsoever. Every joke we had in class showed up.
Once I was in the Atlanta airport, and I got in line to get some food between flights. And I was like, "Why is my face on the back of that shirt?’ I think you're familiar with that shirt. And I just did a double take, and I tapped a guy. I said, "Excuse me." And I was like, "Where did you get this shirt?" It was an older gentleman. And he goes, "Oh, I'm from Utah. I just got it at the DI." But what are the odds that I run into that in the Atlanta airport?
Anthony Godfrey:
Wow.
Melissa Brown:
It's, yeah, I don't do it every year, but--
Anthony Godfrey:
That's a level of fame that not many can claim.
Melissa Brown:
I was in the Atlanta airport, and a random stranger was wearing my face on his shirt. I don't know of anyone else that can say that except maybe athletes.
Anthony Godfrey:
Now, I was the recipient of one of these shirts years ago and on a Saturday morning, I happened to be wearing it. I happened to go into Penny Ann's cafe and tell the listeners who I ran into.
Melissa Brown:
Oh, that would be me and my friends having brunch, yes.
Anthony Godfrey:
I could not wait to walk over to the table and show you and your friends that I was actually wearing the calculus class t-shirt.
Melissa Brown:
I think it should be known that I apologized to your wife for having you wear that t-shirt in public.
Anthony Godfrey:
Hey, that was a Saturday morning breakfast t-shirt, and it was perfect. It was perfect. I've never made a class a t-shirt before, and I thought that was really cool. I thought it was really cool.
Stay with us when we come back more from Melissa Brown on what she loves about teaching math and some of the more interesting interactions she's had with students.
[music]
Never miss an episode of The Supercast by liking and subscribing on your favorite podcasting platform. Find transcripts for this episode and others at supercast.jordandistrict.org.
Break:
Hello, I'm Sandy Riesgraf, Director of Communications for Jordan School District, and we want to invite you to connect with us. So many exciting things are happening in your child's school, your neighbor's school, in every school here, every day. Don't miss out on following the fun or simply staying informed when there's important information we need to share. Join us at jordandistrict.org, or follow us on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram @jordandistrict. We can't wait to connect.
Anthony Godfrey:
I want to go back to something you said about your not being good at math. I think that sometimes if you had to figure out how to get good at something, that really helps you teach others to do the same. Whereas if you're just growing up loving and being great at a particular subject, sometimes it can be harder to put yourself in the mindset of the learner who may not love that subject and may not have that subject come to them naturally. Can you talk to me about how you've been able to relate to students when they've struggled with math?
Melissa Brown:
Yeah, so I have two older siblings, one of which you know.
Anthony Godfrey:
Yes.
Melissa Brown:
The other one, she actually is a rocket scientist. She's an engineer. She works on the rockets.
Anthony Godfrey:
You've told me that.
Melissa Brown:
Right.
Anthony Godfrey:
I mean, rocket science isn't brain surgery, so you know.
Melissa Brown:
It’s not brain surgery is close. And we were close in age. I remember in school she is, you know, still much smarter than I am. That's fine. We have different talents, but I would follow her through classes. And then I would hear from teachers things like, you know, “you're not as smart as your sister.”
Anthony Godfrey:
That is the worst.
Melissa Brown:
Yes. Thank you for telling me that. I knew. Or “you should get your sister to help you with your math.” And I didn't want to be about my sister. And I just didn't get it. And I struggled. I have a lot of experiences that I would not wish on anybody in school math. I struggled a lot, being told I wasn't good enough at it. You know, and I went to college. That was not necessarily in my plan. It ended up happening. And, you know, years go by and then you're like, you know what, I can teach math. And I think the fact that I know exactly what those students are feeling like, never having that light bulb go on in class, not being the kid that can finish in five minutes.
Anthony Godfrey:
Right.
Melissa Brown:
I'm like, that's OK. And I think the kids take me a little more seriously because they're like, well, she had trouble and she can do it now. And I still make mistakes all the time. And I love that they catch them.
Anthony Godfrey:
Yes.
Melissa Brown:
I think it makes me more human to them and them less embarrassed to make mistakes or just try because they're worried it's wrong.
Anthony Godfrey:
It's such an important culture to create in a math classroom in particular, where the answer is right or it's wrong. Focusing on the process, focusing on a connection with students, and making it a place where it is safe to make mistakes and then learn from them.
Melissa Brown:
I agree. I think it's very important that I give a shout-out to my mother who knew that I struggled with math and could cut a grilled cheese sandwich into however many fractions until I understood fractions. So I've had a grilled cheese in sixteenths.
Anthony Godfrey:
Wow.
Melissa Brown:
That was some fancy cutting on my mother's part.
Anthony Godfrey:
That's a lot of crumbs.
Melissa Brown:
But I learned my fractions. I still don't like them, but I can do my fractions now. So my mom is quite proud of that. Probably just as proud of that as she is that I won this award.
Anthony Godfrey:
That's an important part that she played. That's wonderful.
Melissa Brown:
She got me through the fractions.
Anthony Godfrey:
I love that. One of the things that you are known for, and I think this is a great compliment, is that you are able to and eager to teach students across the whole range of math preparedness, math interest. You teach those classes at the very lowest levels and at the very highest levels. So AP, BC, calculus, right through to those where you're helping students catch up that may be behind in math. Talk to me about the rewards of teaching a range of students in math classes.
Melissa Brown:
You know, it's funny that you're a new teacher and you kind of get the classes. It's not uncommon. You get the classes nobody wants. And so when I started, I had one of the remedial math classes and it was hard because I didn't connect well with my students that first year and I just wanted them to do the math and they didn't want to do anything. And that's where my mentor came in and showed me some things to do and really was like, listen, just help them learn something. It's OK if you don't get through the whole core. And over the course of the years, I think I learned different skills, used different strategies, mimicked other teachers. And finally, I think I got very frustrated that so many students were just falling through the cracks with math.
Anthony Godfrey:
Yeah.
Melissa Brown:
I finally went to my principal, Carolyn Gough, at the time and I said, “Can I teach this class” And I very clearly remember her going, “Oh, good, it's about time” or something to that effect. But it was that kind of comment that she was like, I've just been waiting for you to figure it out. Like I wanted you to do it, but you had to want to do it. Teaching my lower-level students is more rewarding and much more work than teaching my advanced students.
Anthony Godfrey:
Yeah.
Melissa Brown:
Because I can't just do one thing and they get it. I have to do it 20 different ways and then figure out 10 more ways. And then still, I have three or four that are like, I don't get it.
Anthony Godfrey:
But the satisfaction that you get from seeing that progress.
Melissa Brown:
I got a new student today. She got through half of the problems we were doing. And she when she said that's easy, I was good for the day. I was like, that was easy. We're done.
Anthony Godfrey:
You take those rewards.
Melissa Brown:
I'll take that. That's fine.
Anthony Godfrey:
Absolutely. Now, this is a rich classroom environment. I think I can safely describe it that way. I remember at one point, this is before it was cool. Everything in your classroom was wrapped in foil, if I recall.
Melissa Brown:
Yeah, I don't like that. I still have an aversion. Operation Tin Man is what we named it.
Anthony Godfrey:
Oh, yeah. Oh, yes. I do see a photo back there with the signatures of those who did it.
Melissa Brown:
Yes.
Anthony Godfrey:
Whoa. And there is photographic evidence. It is as complete as I remember it. That is a lot of aluminum foil.
Melissa Brown:
It's a lot of aluminum foil. And the story only gets better. There is a video on YouTube where they like time-lapse them doing it so you can watch it.
Anthony Godfrey:
Really?
Melissa Brown:
We had a camera set up so when I walked in, it got my reaction. It took me a minute because it had audio. Did I just say what I think? Luckily, I didn't swear. I did. I was like, okay. My mom won't be mad.
That year, we had had a teacher that left the profession and I picked up an extra class because I would do such a thing. And I was teaching a chemistry class, which is not something I enjoy doing, but we did it. So that particular day that I walked in on it, I came in extra early. It was 6, 6.15 in the morning because I had to get through stuff and I didn't have a period off. And I remember when I got here, I didn't understand why my garbage can was outside. And there was like some tape on my door, which I thought was very strange. And so I opened the door and I turned on the light and was immediately blinded. And I was just like, what in the... Every inch of the room was covered in tin foil. We still... I mean, there's still some up there.
Anthony Godfrey:
Every desk individually covered.
Melissa Brown:
Everything in my desk was wrapped. Paperclips.
Anthony Godfrey:
Everything in the desk.
Melissa Brown:
I mean, everything was wrapped. The phone, the keyboard.
Anthony Godfrey:
It was thorough.
Melissa Brown:
Oh yeah, all the books.
Anthony Godfrey:
I've never seen anything like it. And you just pointed that out. In addition to the framed photo, there are three ceiling tiles that remain, at least three, that remain wrapped in foil.
Melissa Brown:
We tried to take it down years ago, but then the ceiling tile started to fall apart.
Anthony Godfrey:
It deteriorates.
Melissa Brown:
It just holds the ceiling tile.
Anthony Godfrey:
That's perfect. That's perfect.
Melissa Brown:
Yeah. I mean, I did the floor. So needless to say, nothing really got accomplished for me that day. However, I did learn several things. I know what it feels like to be a baked potato because it was in May.
Anthony Godfrey:
Fair. Fair.
Melissa Brown:
So it was very hot with the windows.
Anthony Godfrey:
Wow.
Melissa Brown:
You can write on tin foil and it erases with whiteboard markers so you can...
Anthony Godfrey:
I did not know that. I did not know that.
Melissa Brown:
It comes right off. Just be careful. I cut my hands a few times. That's okay.
Anthony Godfrey:
Wow. Injuries.
Melissa Brown:
Injuries, yeah.
Anthony Godfrey:
Again, risk management doesn't listen to the podcast, so we're okay.
Melissa Brown:
It's in the past.
Anthony Godfrey:
So you've created some incredible memories in math class.
Melissa Brown:
Just a few, yeah.
Anthony Godfrey:
And that's not always the case in math class.
Melissa Brown:
There was a little math in there. In between some things.
Anthony Godfrey:
There's a lot of math. There's a lot of math. But like you said, those relationships shine through, so to speak, with these things happening in class. So tell me, what do you love about teaching math?
Melissa Brown:
That is a good question. I like teaching kids. I happen to be good at math communication with kids. I just like teaching kids. So I don't know it's different for any teacher that enjoys their profession, whatever subject level. I just like teaching the kids and working with the kids.
Anthony Godfrey:
Tell us what's next with the award.
Melissa Brown:
So there's a monetary award, so I'm looking forward to getting some money.
Anthony Godfrey:
And do you remember that number as a math teacher?
Melissa Brown:
It's $10,000.
Anthony Godfrey:
$10,000. Not too shabby.
Melissa Brown:
I'll take that. Not too shabby, yes. And supposedly there's a trip for some recognition to D.C. in the future, so that's coming up.
Anthony Godfrey:
Well, fantastic. We look forward to hearing about that. And once again, congratulations. I've known you for many years, and through all those years, I've known you're a fantastic math teacher, but you're a fantastic teacher of students who connects with people like nobody else. As you've demonstrated over and over, it has a passion for connecting with kids however you have to make that math stick. So I appreciate your creativity, your hard work, and your connection with students. That's a positive impact that's going to last for a very long time.
Melissa Brown:
I really appreciate that, and I wouldn't be who I am without a lot of help from a lot of different people.
Anthony Godfrey:
Thanks for joining us on another episode of the Supercast. Remember, education is the most important thing you will do today. We'll see you out there.
View all episodes
By Jordan Supercast
4.7
4141 ratings
Her teaching time adds up to more than two decades in the classroom, every day dedicated to transforming the way students learn and experience math.
On this episode of the Supercast, we sit down with Riverton High School nationally recognized math teacher Melissa Brown to talk about her greatest passion and how it led her to receive the very prestigious "Presidential Award for Excellence in Mathematics and Science Teaching."
For listeners who would like to see the YouTube video “Operation Tin Man” created by Melissa Brown’s students and referenced in this episode, click here.
Audio Transcription
Anthony Godfrey:
I want to go back to something you said about your not being good at math.
Melissa Brown:
I struggled a lot being told I wasn't getting enough out of it. And I think the fact that I know exactly what those students are feeling like, never having that light bulb go on in class, not being the kid that can finish in five minutes. I think the kids take me a little more seriously because they're like, "Well, she had trouble and she could do it."
[Music]
Anthony Godfrey:
Hello and welcome to the Supercast. I'm your host, Superintendent Anthony Godfrey. Her teaching time adds up to more than two decades in the classroom, every day dedicated to transforming the way students learn and experience math.
On this episode of the Supercast, we sit down with Riverton High School's nationally recognized math teacher, Melissa Brown, to talk about her greatest passion and how it led her to receive the very prestigious “Presidential Award for Excellence in Mathematics and Science Teaching”.
[Music]
We're here at Riverton High School to talk with Melissa Brown, National Award-winning math teacher. Melissa, thanks for taking a few minutes.
Melissa Brown:
You're welcome.
Anthony Godfrey:
Tell us a little bit about the award that you just received. There are press releases, and this is very rare for someone in Utah to receive this.
Melissa Brown:
So it's called the “Presidential Award for Excellence in Mathematics and Science Teaching”. I was nominated, and then there's a whole application process. I found out two years ago pretty much, so I was a state finalist, and then it was just up to whenever the White House decided to announce the winners. I guess it took them two years to announce the winners.
Anthony Godfrey:
I remember talking about your being nominated and making it to the next level, being a finalist. I had no idea that this was connected. I thought that possibly you had been renominated, but hey, this is how the federal wheels turn sometimes. So tell us about this award, and you went through quite a process to apply.
Melissa Brown:
Yes. So I received an email several, I guess three years now, that said I'd been nominated. So I was nominated by Carolyn Gough, my previous principal, and it just said you've been nominated and said you can apply if you choose.
It's my understanding that a lot of people, after they read through what the process is, decide, no, thank you. Apparently, I was foolish enough to say, “Okay, that sounds good”. So then you have to submit a bio, a resume. It required several letters of recommendations from supervisors, parents, students. I think that was all the letters. And then you have to videotape yourself teaching and then write a bunch of stuff about that video answering a series of questions in like five different areas, I think.
Anthony Godfrey:
Wow, that is nerve-wracking. How many versions of the video did you go through?
Melissa Brown:
Well, I guess I don't know if I should throw somebody in the bus, but I have a funny story about that. So this will be the last time I tell the story because I promise I wouldn't.
Anthony Godfrey:
The people want to know.
Melissa Brown:
I asked one of our instructional coaches to help me out in the filming. So she'd been in frequently just filming me teach. And they just hadn't been what I felt was like a decent video that I felt I had a lot to say about. So finally one day, if you can imagine, she's like with the camera in front of students. I'm trying to teach and my students got so used to her being here, they ignored her. And we finished the day and she got really excited. She was like, “That was it. This is the one. It was great.” She goes, “Let's watch it.” And so we take the camera and we push it and it recorded all of five seconds of an 87-minute class.
Anthony Godfrey:
Oh, no.
Melissa Brown:
And I was just like, “Oh, dear. We have to do that again.” And she immediately was just horrified, very upset. So we both just took a break for a while and said, OK. That wasn't--
Anthony Godfrey:
It took time to reset.
Melissa Brown:
We regrouped. We recorded again a couple of times and found one that she was like, “That was really good. I think you should use that one.” And I was sick of filming and I was like, great. We're going with that one.
Anthony Godfrey:
Well, filming yourself teaching is– and then analyzing it on top of that, that can be pretty harrowing to watch yourself that much. It's a real compliment that with a video and that analysis and perspective from all of these different people that you've won this award, it's really exciting. How does that feel at the end of all this process, two years, all these years of teaching to receive some recognition for that?
Melissa Brown:
I'm not trying to be humble about it, but really I don't know that I don't do a lot of things differently than a lot of other teachers that I work with. I know I have been blessed to have some really great administrators that have supported me and helped me to, I feel like, grow in my job. You know, I had two or three great mentors. Bill Broderick at the time was a fantastic math teacher that I think I emulate him in some ways because everything he did was just phenomenal. Kids loved him.
Anthony Godfrey:
Tell me some of the ways that those mentors, those teachers, and administrators have impacted your teaching.
Melissa Brown:
I think first I just saw that they were really great at connecting with kids and the math came second. I mean, I know it's hard to believe that kids don't just clamor to learn the math stuff.
Anthony Godfrey:
It's the order of operations. You connect with kids first and then you make sure that the math gets through.
Melissa Brown:
I don't know that there's a good acronym for that, though, like the order of operations. We’ll make one up.
Anthony Godfrey:
Yeah, that's true.
Melissa Brown:
I just think they really showed me that it really is the most important thing, is just to connect with kids. And then the math comes second. I mean, how many times do we hear, when am I ever going to have to use this math? And I'm not going to lie to a lot of students and say, "No one's going to come up to you and say, 'Excuse me, could you solve this polynomial for me? I need to know the answer.'" And I'm not going to sugarcoat that for the kids, but I think there's such an importance to learning the processes of critical thinking and just the idea that I can do something hard, that I can progress through more difficult things, that I think it shows kids they can do hard things.
Anthony Godfrey:
A sense of efficacy. A sense of problem-solving.
Melissa Brown:
Yes.
Anthony Godfrey:
A deeper level thinking.
Melissa Brown:
Yeah, absolutely. So, I think they showed me that. I know, you know, I wasn't worried about, did they get the right answer all the time? You got the wrong answer more times than not, but look at the process that you did and how far you came. And that's more important to me, and I think that helps kids connect to me in a way.
I was not good at math when I was in school. My students don't believe me, so I'll pull out my report cards that have Cs on it. And they're like, "You got Cs?" “I know, they let me teach here. Can you believe it?” So, I just think that connection with kids, I think the principals I've had have allowed me some flexibility just to try things no matter how crazy they seem. ‘You want to do what?’ “Yeah, I want to do that. Can I do that?’ “Okay.” Nine times out of ten it fails, but it gives me some idea, and then I can try something else.
Anthony Godfrey:
I'd say nine out of ten times it works. No, I don't understand. But it does make a huge difference when you know you have that support to try something new.
Melissa Brown:
Right.
Anthony Godfrey:
And I love the creativity that you bring to things, and I'm familiar with that creativity. I'm also familiar with the way that you connect with students. You've had a tradition in the past, I don't know if it's ongoing, of creating a t-shirt at the end of your calculus classes. Talk to me about that.
Melissa Brown:
The AP exam's a big deal, and for some students that's the first time they've sat and taken a really difficult exam that covers months of effort.
Anthony Godfrey:
Yeah.
Melissa Brown:
And they're nervous, and so I would try to get them excited about it, and who wants to get up in the morning when they're nervous and have to worry about what to wear. So I said, "Let's make a t-shirt." And it started with us drawing on a t-shirt, and then we got more fancy and did iron-ons. So I've been doing it for a while. Sometimes they were very plain, and it just said, "Riverton Calculus." And then they got to where the shirts make no sense whatsoever. Every joke we had in class showed up.
Once I was in the Atlanta airport, and I got in line to get some food between flights. And I was like, "Why is my face on the back of that shirt?’ I think you're familiar with that shirt. And I just did a double take, and I tapped a guy. I said, "Excuse me." And I was like, "Where did you get this shirt?" It was an older gentleman. And he goes, "Oh, I'm from Utah. I just got it at the DI." But what are the odds that I run into that in the Atlanta airport?
Anthony Godfrey:
Wow.
Melissa Brown:
It's, yeah, I don't do it every year, but--
Anthony Godfrey:
That's a level of fame that not many can claim.
Melissa Brown:
I was in the Atlanta airport, and a random stranger was wearing my face on his shirt. I don't know of anyone else that can say that except maybe athletes.
Anthony Godfrey:
Now, I was the recipient of one of these shirts years ago and on a Saturday morning, I happened to be wearing it. I happened to go into Penny Ann's cafe and tell the listeners who I ran into.
Melissa Brown:
Oh, that would be me and my friends having brunch, yes.
Anthony Godfrey:
I could not wait to walk over to the table and show you and your friends that I was actually wearing the calculus class t-shirt.
Melissa Brown:
I think it should be known that I apologized to your wife for having you wear that t-shirt in public.
Anthony Godfrey:
Hey, that was a Saturday morning breakfast t-shirt, and it was perfect. It was perfect. I've never made a class a t-shirt before, and I thought that was really cool. I thought it was really cool.
Stay with us when we come back more from Melissa Brown on what she loves about teaching math and some of the more interesting interactions she's had with students.
[music]
Never miss an episode of The Supercast by liking and subscribing on your favorite podcasting platform. Find transcripts for this episode and others at supercast.jordandistrict.org.
Break:
Hello, I'm Sandy Riesgraf, Director of Communications for Jordan School District, and we want to invite you to connect with us. So many exciting things are happening in your child's school, your neighbor's school, in every school here, every day. Don't miss out on following the fun or simply staying informed when there's important information we need to share. Join us at jordandistrict.org, or follow us on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram @jordandistrict. We can't wait to connect.
Anthony Godfrey:
I want to go back to something you said about your not being good at math. I think that sometimes if you had to figure out how to get good at something, that really helps you teach others to do the same. Whereas if you're just growing up loving and being great at a particular subject, sometimes it can be harder to put yourself in the mindset of the learner who may not love that subject and may not have that subject come to them naturally. Can you talk to me about how you've been able to relate to students when they've struggled with math?
Melissa Brown:
Yeah, so I have two older siblings, one of which you know.
Anthony Godfrey:
Yes.
Melissa Brown:
The other one, she actually is a rocket scientist. She's an engineer. She works on the rockets.
Anthony Godfrey:
You've told me that.
Melissa Brown:
Right.
Anthony Godfrey:
I mean, rocket science isn't brain surgery, so you know.
Melissa Brown:
It’s not brain surgery is close. And we were close in age. I remember in school she is, you know, still much smarter than I am. That's fine. We have different talents, but I would follow her through classes. And then I would hear from teachers things like, you know, “you're not as smart as your sister.”
Anthony Godfrey:
That is the worst.
Melissa Brown:
Yes. Thank you for telling me that. I knew. Or “you should get your sister to help you with your math.” And I didn't want to be about my sister. And I just didn't get it. And I struggled. I have a lot of experiences that I would not wish on anybody in school math. I struggled a lot, being told I wasn't good enough at it. You know, and I went to college. That was not necessarily in my plan. It ended up happening. And, you know, years go by and then you're like, you know what, I can teach math. And I think the fact that I know exactly what those students are feeling like, never having that light bulb go on in class, not being the kid that can finish in five minutes.
Anthony Godfrey:
Right.
Melissa Brown:
I'm like, that's OK. And I think the kids take me a little more seriously because they're like, well, she had trouble and she can do it now. And I still make mistakes all the time. And I love that they catch them.
Anthony Godfrey:
Yes.
Melissa Brown:
I think it makes me more human to them and them less embarrassed to make mistakes or just try because they're worried it's wrong.
Anthony Godfrey:
It's such an important culture to create in a math classroom in particular, where the answer is right or it's wrong. Focusing on the process, focusing on a connection with students, and making it a place where it is safe to make mistakes and then learn from them.
Melissa Brown:
I agree. I think it's very important that I give a shout-out to my mother who knew that I struggled with math and could cut a grilled cheese sandwich into however many fractions until I understood fractions. So I've had a grilled cheese in sixteenths.
Anthony Godfrey:
Wow.
Melissa Brown:
That was some fancy cutting on my mother's part.
Anthony Godfrey:
That's a lot of crumbs.
Melissa Brown:
But I learned my fractions. I still don't like them, but I can do my fractions now. So my mom is quite proud of that. Probably just as proud of that as she is that I won this award.
Anthony Godfrey:
That's an important part that she played. That's wonderful.
Melissa Brown:
She got me through the fractions.
Anthony Godfrey:
I love that. One of the things that you are known for, and I think this is a great compliment, is that you are able to and eager to teach students across the whole range of math preparedness, math interest. You teach those classes at the very lowest levels and at the very highest levels. So AP, BC, calculus, right through to those where you're helping students catch up that may be behind in math. Talk to me about the rewards of teaching a range of students in math classes.
Melissa Brown:
You know, it's funny that you're a new teacher and you kind of get the classes. It's not uncommon. You get the classes nobody wants. And so when I started, I had one of the remedial math classes and it was hard because I didn't connect well with my students that first year and I just wanted them to do the math and they didn't want to do anything. And that's where my mentor came in and showed me some things to do and really was like, listen, just help them learn something. It's OK if you don't get through the whole core. And over the course of the years, I think I learned different skills, used different strategies, mimicked other teachers. And finally, I think I got very frustrated that so many students were just falling through the cracks with math.
Anthony Godfrey:
Yeah.
Melissa Brown:
I finally went to my principal, Carolyn Gough, at the time and I said, “Can I teach this class” And I very clearly remember her going, “Oh, good, it's about time” or something to that effect. But it was that kind of comment that she was like, I've just been waiting for you to figure it out. Like I wanted you to do it, but you had to want to do it. Teaching my lower-level students is more rewarding and much more work than teaching my advanced students.
Anthony Godfrey:
Yeah.
Melissa Brown:
Because I can't just do one thing and they get it. I have to do it 20 different ways and then figure out 10 more ways. And then still, I have three or four that are like, I don't get it.
Anthony Godfrey:
But the satisfaction that you get from seeing that progress.
Melissa Brown:
I got a new student today. She got through half of the problems we were doing. And she when she said that's easy, I was good for the day. I was like, that was easy. We're done.
Anthony Godfrey:
You take those rewards.
Melissa Brown:
I'll take that. That's fine.
Anthony Godfrey:
Absolutely. Now, this is a rich classroom environment. I think I can safely describe it that way. I remember at one point, this is before it was cool. Everything in your classroom was wrapped in foil, if I recall.
Melissa Brown:
Yeah, I don't like that. I still have an aversion. Operation Tin Man is what we named it.
Anthony Godfrey:
Oh, yeah. Oh, yes. I do see a photo back there with the signatures of those who did it.
Melissa Brown:
Yes.
Anthony Godfrey:
Whoa. And there is photographic evidence. It is as complete as I remember it. That is a lot of aluminum foil.
Melissa Brown:
It's a lot of aluminum foil. And the story only gets better. There is a video on YouTube where they like time-lapse them doing it so you can watch it.
Anthony Godfrey:
Really?
Melissa Brown:
We had a camera set up so when I walked in, it got my reaction. It took me a minute because it had audio. Did I just say what I think? Luckily, I didn't swear. I did. I was like, okay. My mom won't be mad.
That year, we had had a teacher that left the profession and I picked up an extra class because I would do such a thing. And I was teaching a chemistry class, which is not something I enjoy doing, but we did it. So that particular day that I walked in on it, I came in extra early. It was 6, 6.15 in the morning because I had to get through stuff and I didn't have a period off. And I remember when I got here, I didn't understand why my garbage can was outside. And there was like some tape on my door, which I thought was very strange. And so I opened the door and I turned on the light and was immediately blinded. And I was just like, what in the... Every inch of the room was covered in tin foil. We still... I mean, there's still some up there.
Anthony Godfrey:
Every desk individually covered.
Melissa Brown:
Everything in my desk was wrapped. Paperclips.
Anthony Godfrey:
Everything in the desk.
Melissa Brown:
I mean, everything was wrapped. The phone, the keyboard.
Anthony Godfrey:
It was thorough.
Melissa Brown:
Oh yeah, all the books.
Anthony Godfrey:
I've never seen anything like it. And you just pointed that out. In addition to the framed photo, there are three ceiling tiles that remain, at least three, that remain wrapped in foil.
Melissa Brown:
We tried to take it down years ago, but then the ceiling tile started to fall apart.
Anthony Godfrey:
It deteriorates.
Melissa Brown:
It just holds the ceiling tile.
Anthony Godfrey:
That's perfect. That's perfect.
Melissa Brown:
Yeah. I mean, I did the floor. So needless to say, nothing really got accomplished for me that day. However, I did learn several things. I know what it feels like to be a baked potato because it was in May.
Anthony Godfrey:
Fair. Fair.
Melissa Brown:
So it was very hot with the windows.
Anthony Godfrey:
Wow.
Melissa Brown:
You can write on tin foil and it erases with whiteboard markers so you can...
Anthony Godfrey:
I did not know that. I did not know that.
Melissa Brown:
It comes right off. Just be careful. I cut my hands a few times. That's okay.
Anthony Godfrey:
Wow. Injuries.
Melissa Brown:
Injuries, yeah.
Anthony Godfrey:
Again, risk management doesn't listen to the podcast, so we're okay.
Melissa Brown:
It's in the past.
Anthony Godfrey:
So you've created some incredible memories in math class.
Melissa Brown:
Just a few, yeah.
Anthony Godfrey:
And that's not always the case in math class.
Melissa Brown:
There was a little math in there. In between some things.
Anthony Godfrey:
There's a lot of math. There's a lot of math. But like you said, those relationships shine through, so to speak, with these things happening in class. So tell me, what do you love about teaching math?
Melissa Brown:
That is a good question. I like teaching kids. I happen to be good at math communication with kids. I just like teaching kids. So I don't know it's different for any teacher that enjoys their profession, whatever subject level. I just like teaching the kids and working with the kids.
Anthony Godfrey:
Tell us what's next with the award.
Melissa Brown:
So there's a monetary award, so I'm looking forward to getting some money.
Anthony Godfrey:
And do you remember that number as a math teacher?
Melissa Brown:
It's $10,000.
Anthony Godfrey:
$10,000. Not too shabby.
Melissa Brown:
I'll take that. Not too shabby, yes. And supposedly there's a trip for some recognition to D.C. in the future, so that's coming up.
Anthony Godfrey:
Well, fantastic. We look forward to hearing about that. And once again, congratulations. I've known you for many years, and through all those years, I've known you're a fantastic math teacher, but you're a fantastic teacher of students who connects with people like nobody else. As you've demonstrated over and over, it has a passion for connecting with kids however you have to make that math stick. So I appreciate your creativity, your hard work, and your connection with students. That's a positive impact that's going to last for a very long time.
Melissa Brown:
I really appreciate that, and I wouldn't be who I am without a lot of help from a lot of different people.
Anthony Godfrey:
Thanks for joining us on another episode of the Supercast. Remember, education is the most important thing you will do today. We'll see you out there.
More shows like Jordan Supercast
View all
The Viall Files
25,000 Listeners
followHIM
10,435 Listeners