The future of marketing may not just be shaped by the internet anymore. On the latest podcast episode, we speak about the under net with Jason Hartley, Head of Media Innovation and Trust at PMG.

Jason explains how the infrastructure of the internet is now being used in a new way that's not really visible to us, introducing "invisible influencers" that make up what he's calling the under net.

We talk about AI agents, the emergence of an over net as well, and using data but looking beyond it, to become a better marketer.