What happens when an ER physician and a psychologist both hit burnout at the same time? In Dr. Jack Hay and Dr. Harry Pepper's case, they decided to build something different together.

In this episode, Dr. Hay and Dr. Pepper share the real story behind opening Oberlin Ketamine Clinic in Ohio. Including their unique physician-psychologist partnership model, how they've made personalized music a core part of their ketamine therapy approach, and why they're so intentional about trauma-informed care.

This isn't a polished success story. They walk us through their first-year challenges, the difference between integration coaching and traditional therapy (and why that distinction matters), and their philosophy of empowering patients to choose their own music playlists instead of prescribing one-size-fits-all soundtracks.

What really stood out? How they've built their practice around their core values instead of just copying what other clinics are doing.

What you’ll gain

🔹 How to maintain passion, patience, and perseverance through inevitable obstacles

🔹 Simple techniques that create profound patient experiences (whiteboard intentions, personalized playlists)

🔹 How to distinguish between coaching and therapy in integration work 

Episode 44 show notes:

00:00 - Teaser - A shamanic transfer of energy

00:26 - Episode Introduction

02:30 - Dr. Hay's background: Emergency medicine to ketamine therapy journey, COVID burnout experience

05:20 - Dr. Pepper's background: 30 years in psychology, psychedelic therapy insights

08:45 - Pivotal moments: Dr. Pepper's continuing education revelation and personal experience with long COVID

12:15 - Dr. Hay's decision point: Leaving ED directorship, timing with Harry's proposal

15:30 - Major obstacles faced: Timeline underestimation, patient education challenges, Midwest ketamine awareness

21:40 - Safety protocols and patient process: First contact approach, trauma-informed care, continuous monitoring

26:50 - Integration coaching philosophy: Present-moment forward orientation vs traditional therapy

32:20 - Music curation innovation: Challenging conventional wisdom, personalized playlists, patient choice

40:30 - Intention setting technique: Colored whiteboard process, embodiment practices

44:15 - Advice for new clinicians: Dr. Hay's "Three P's" - passion, patience, perseverance

47:30 - Dr. Pepper's advice: Don't give up, staying connected to values during challenges

50:45 - Personal questions begin: Desert island books/movies/food

56:20 - Hidden talents: Dr. Pepper's music performance background, Dr. Hay's artistic abilities

1:00:30 - Time travel question: Future space exploration vs MLK's "I Have a Dream" speech

1:02:45 - Contact information and closing remarks

Thanks for listening

Connect with Dr. Hay and Dr. Pepper at:

Oberlin Ketamine Website

Instagram

Meta

Infinite Leadership

Selected Links From the Episode: These book links in these show notes are Amazon affiliate links. If you purchase through these links, we may earn a small commission at no additional cost to you.

📕The Elevated Leader: Level Up Your Leadership Through Vertical Development by Ryan Gottfredson

📗The Body Keeps the Score: Brain, Mind, and Body in the Healing of Trauma by Bessel van der Kolk

📘You Are Enough: Revealing the Soul to Discover Your Power, Potential, and Possibility by Panache Desai

🎶Explore more about music in Episode 032 - Music & Psychedelic Therapy: A Conversation with Author Steve Gelberg

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🚀Want to fast track launching your ketamine clinic? If so, download our free checklist.