Mike Pilavachi has resigned from Soul Survivor and once again we are having that conversation. Why do beloved Christian leaders fall? And why do the people around themso often protect and enable their failings?

In this episode, we don't disect the ongoing Pilavachi investigation or jump to hasty condemnation, nor do we jump to his defence. Instead, we discuss what the limits of forgiveness might be, what cultural and structural factors might contribute to ongoing problematic behaviour and why some leaders become brands that are 'too big to fall' - until they do.

We also hear from people in the orbit of a previous and more upsetting scandal: that of Ravi Zacharias. Thanks to Matty Fearon of Mission Catalyst magazine and Johan Erasmus of Dialoog church for their contributions.

ALSO. We are acutely aware that on a podcast about a phenomenon mostly involving abuse of power by men, all our guests are men. This si a function of a few things, including: the people we know who are close to these events are also men - a reflection of church hiring perhaps; at least one woman we hoped to hear from decided to brief her husband to talk to us instead. We hope that the input from our listeners (who all appeared to be women this week) and the fact that we have one cis woman and one gender-curious on the host team makes up for that a little.