Skye explains the strong biblical ties between two seemingly related concepts: worship and justice. Can you even have one without the other?

Get the full episode by signing up for Holy Post Plus:

https://www.patreon.com/posts/122739547/

Since WWII, the United States has been actively engaged in foreign aid as part of its strategic foreign policy, and Christians of all theological and political views have broadly supported this effort. In the first month of the Trump administration, however, Christians on the far right have suddenly turned against international aid. What’s behind this change and are there parallels on the religious left? And what does it mean when MAGA Catholics are arguing directly with Pope Francis about immigrants, refugees, and the poor? Author and journalist, Katherine Stewart, has investigated the religious nationalist movement for 15 years. She says there’s a major disconnect between the super-rich funding the movement (many aren’t even Christians), and the average white evangelicals caught up in its conspiracy theories and events. She talks with Skye about her new book, “Money, Lies, and God.” Also this week—Phil looks at larvae and sees the face of God.

World Relief Advocate:

https://worldrelief.org/advocate/

Holy Post Plus:

Bonus Interview:

https://www.patreon.com/posts/122502748/

Ad-Free version of this episode:

https://www.patreon.com/posts/122579252/

0:00 - Show Starts

2:28 - Theme Song

2:50 - Sponsor - AG1 - Heavily researched, thoroughly purity-tested, and filled with stuff you need. Go to https://www.drinkag1.com/HOLYPOST

3:55 - Sponsor - Faithful Counseling - This episode is sponsored by Faithful Counseling. Give online therapy a try at https://www.faithfulcounseling.com/HOLYPOST and get 10% off

5:32 - News of the Termite-Faced Butts!

12:03 - Space Force Skye

19:20 - Is Humanitarian Aid Biblical?

24:32 - Romans 13

37:35 - Are Anti-Foreign Aid Arguments Consistent?

51:35 - Sponsor - Bushnell University - Equip yourself to be transformative in your community! Go to https://www.bushnell.edu

52:28 - Sponsor - World Relief - Visit https://worldrelief.org/holypost/ to download your family refugee guide and learn more about the Path Community

53:44 - Interview

57:03 - Information Bubbles

1:03:33 - Is this All a Grift?

1:10:11 - The Inconsistencies of MAGA

1:20:17 - Red Caesar

1:25:52 - End Credits

Links Mentioned in News Segment:

World Relief Advocate:

https://worldrelief.org/advocate/

Termite-Face-Butts!

https://www.livescience.com/animals/insects/moroccan-fly-maggot-uses-fake-face-on-its-butt-to-infiltrate-termite-colony

Pope Francis and American Catholics Clash:

https://www.msnbc.com/opinion/msnbc-opinion/pope-francis-jd-vance-immigration-tom-homan-rcna192291

Trump Demonizes Faith-Based Partners and Government Grants

https://religionnews.com/2025/02/12/is-taking-government-money-a-sin-for-churches-and-ministries-or-a-liberal-plot/?utm_medium=social

Other resources:

Money, Lies and God: Inside the Movement to Destroy American Democracy by Katherine Stewart: https://a.co/d/b85D6UN

Holy Post website: https://www.holypost.com/

Holy Post Plus: www.holypost.com/plus

Holy Post Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/holypost

Holy Post Merch Store: https://www.holypost.com/shop

The Holy Post is supported by our listeners. We may earn affiliate commissions through links listed here. As an Amazon Associate, we earn from qualifying 

purchases.

The White House is defunding USAID, one of the largest distributors of foreign aid, and blaming it on wasteful spending—like a D.E.I musical in Ireland. But as Phil, Skye, and Kaitlyn unpack, the real losers are Christian relief organizations like World Relief and Catholic Charities, which now face devastating budget cuts. Then, it’s been over 20 years since the release of Blue Like Jazz, the bestselling book that made faith feel cool. Did it offer a helpful critique of evangelicalism, or was this the beginning of the rise of vibes-based Christianity? Also, New York Times columnist Ross Douthat joins Skye to discuss his new book, Believe: Why Everyone Should Be Religious. He explains why our increasingly secular culture is still drawn to spirituality and why rejecting religious institutions in favor of “DIY faith” may not be the answer. Plus, we have a trailer for a new season of Why I’m Still a Christian.

Holy Post Plus:

Bonus Interview with Ross Douthat:

https://www.patreon.com/posts/122056691/

0:00 - Show Starts

2:18 - Theme Song

2:41 - Sponsor - Hiya Health - Go to www.hiyahealth.com/HOLYPOST to receive 50% off your first order

3:45  - Sponsor - Rocket Money - Find and cancel your old subscriptions with Rocket Money at https://www.rocketmoney.com/holypost

8:25  - Trump and Christian Persecution

12:22 - Elon Shuts Down USAID

19:53 - Did USAID Really Fund That?

24:29 - Principle of Unitary President

35:42 - Blue Like Untethered Christianity

39:57 - Consumerist Christianity and Vibes

46:41 - Why I’m Still a Christian Season 2 Sneak Peak!

48:05 - Sponsor - Sundays Dog Food - Get 40% off your first order of Sundays. Go to https://www.SundaysForDogs.com/HOLYPOST or use code HOLYPOST at checkout.

50:08 - Sponsor - Glorify - Sign up for the #1 Christian Daily Devotional App to help you stay focused on God. Go to https://glorify-app.com/en/HOLYPOST to download the app today!

51:11 - Interview

52:30 - A Case for Religion?

56:26 - Why Not Just Argue for Jesus?

1:02:23 - Are Secular Circles Falling Apart?

1:11:00 - Fine Tuning Argument

1:23:04 - Why Not Pursue Spirituality on Your Own?

1:28:05 - End Credits

Links Mentioned in News Segment:

Editorial: SIlence in the Face of Trump’s Cruelty is Complicity:

https://www.ncronline.org/opinion/editorial/editorial-silence-face-trumps-cruelty-complicity

Contact Bishops and Diocese by State:

https://www.usccb.org/about/bishops-and-dioceses/all-dioceses

USAID Trump Fact Checker:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2025/02/07/usaid-trump-fact-checker/

Blue Like Jazz:

https://www.christianitytoday.com/2025/01/blue-like-jazz-donald-miller-church-optional/

Other resources:

Believe: Why Everyone Should Be Religious: https://a.co/d/3oVuOKR

Holy Post website: https://www.holypost.com/

Holy Post Plus: www.holypost.com/plus

Holy Post Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/holypost

Holy Post Merch Store: https://www.holypost.com/shop

The Holy Post is supported by our listeners. We may earn affiliate commissions through links listed here. As an Amazon Associate, we earn from qualifying purchases.

During a recent Fox News interview, Vice President J.D. Vance cited “an old school and very Christian concept” to justify rejecting refugees and ending international aid. Bishops from his own church disagreed. The Holy Post crew explores the concept Vance was citing, how he misunderstands it, and why his interpretation undermines the entire New Testament. Kaitlyn interviews Skye about his new book, “What If Jesus Was Serious About Justice?” They talk about the link between justice and worship, what it means to have a heart “far from God,” and why the doctrine of penal substitutionary atonement is biblical but taught in a proudly unbiblical way in many churches. Also this week, Phil returns to Twitter and learns who Margaret is.

Holy Post Plus:

Bonus Interview with Skye Jethani:

https://www.patreon.com/posts/121522392/edit

0:00 - Sponsor - Bushnell University - Equip yourself to be transformative in your community! Go to https://www.bushnell.edu

0:49 - Show Starts

3:20 - Theme Song

3:42 - Sponsor - Faithful Counseling - This episode is sponsored by Faithful Counseling. Give online therapy a try at https://www.faithfulcounseling.com/HOLYPOST and get 10% off

4:45 - Sponsor - AG1 - Heavily researched, thoroughly purity-tested, and filled with stuff you need. Go to https://www.drinkag1.com/HOLYPOST

6:09 - Inauguration

7:27 - Tariff Fight!

12:03 - Twitter’s a Dirty Aquarium

17:29 - Who’s Margaret and Should She Care?

20:52 - The American Council of Bishops

24:22 - Augustine and Ordo Amoris

31:56 - Scripture and Ordo Amoris

37:36 - Case for Christian Nationalism

43:23 - The Resurrection Disrupts Politics

48:22 - Sponsor - Blueland - Get up to 25% off your first order by going to https://www.Blueland.com/HOLYPOST

49:28 - Sponsor - Pique - Pique’s tea is a superfood in a cup! Comes with a frother and glass beaker—get the starter kit at https://piquelife.com/HOLYPOST

51:08 - Interview

53:05 - Justice and Social Justice

1:01:10 - Oppression Beyond Identity

1:09:55 - God’s Justice and Mercy

1:14:42 - Penal Substitutionary Atonement

1:22:45 - End Credits

Links Mentioned in News Segment:

JD Vance is Wrong: Jesus doesn’t ask us to rank our love for others:

https://www.ncronline.org/opinion/guest-voices/jd-vance-wrong-jesus-doesnt-ask-us-rank-our-love-others?utm_source=flipboard&utm_content=topic/christianity

Other resources:

What if Jesus Was Serious About Justice by Skye Jethani: https://a.co/d/gFydI1K

Holy Post website: https://www.holypost.com/

Holy Post Plus: www.holypost.com/plus

Holy Post Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/holypost

Holy Post Merch Store: https://www.holypost.com/shop

The Holy Post is supported by our listeners. We may earn affiliate commissions through links listed here. As an Amazon Associate, we earn from qualifying 

purchases.

David French brings us his thoughts on why the GOP is no longer the party of the Constitution. Have political party allegiances broken the system? What Constitutional guard rails can operate when people are worried about falling out of the President’s favor? Then, he talks about Carl Schmitt, a German political thinker who may have the key to understanding the difference between the politics we’re used to—and the emerging politics of the New Right.

David French’s article on Schmittian politics:

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/01/26/opinion/trump-maga-schmitt.html

0:00 - Theme Song

0:17 - Show Begins

2:11 - Tiktok—banned or not?

8:10 - Does Trump obey the Supreme Court?

15:30 - Resistant Bacteria Analogy

24:26 - Senators Following the People

27:29 - Political Parties as Checks

34:45 - The Gingrich-Clinton Wars

41:28 - Schmitt and MAGA Morality

53:15 - The Moment for Courage

1:04:52 - End Credits

The first week of the second Trump administration has seen refugees cut off and January 6th criminals cut loose. Franklin Graham declared in his inauguration prayer that God himself had chosen the President. The MAGA faithful applauded this mix of Christian faith and politics, but when Bishop Budde asked the President to “show mercy” to frightened people during her homily at the National Cathedral, she was accused of everything from political activism to witchcraft. Phil has a theory about what these two religious leaders at the inauguration reveal about the state of American Christianity. Then Matthew Soerens from World Relief is back to discuss Trump’s immediate shut down of all refugee resettlement, including cutting all financial aid previously promised to refugees already in the U.S. What’s behind the President’s aggressive policy, and how can we practically help our neighbors abandoned by the government that brought them here? Also this week—reanimated squirrels and Skye wears a red hat.

0:00 - Show Starts

4:14 - Theme Song

4:36  - Sponsor - Go to https://www.fromourplace.com and use code HOLYPOST to get 10% off site wide on beautiful cookware!

5:42 - Sponsor - Faithful Counseling - This episode is sponsored by Faithful Counseling. Give online therapy a try at https://www.faithfulcounseling.com/HOLYPOST and get 10% off

10:54 - Inauguration

20:57 - The Demonization of Empathy

27:08 - Loyalty Buys Protection

32:26 - Cruelty as Proof of Allegiance

39:30 - Created Order vs. the Marginalized

59:07 - Sponsor - Sundays Dog Food - Get 40% off your first order of Sundays. Go to https://www.SundaysForDogs.com/HOLYPOST or use code HOLYPOST at checkout.

1:00:08 - Sponsor - The NIV Lectio Bible - A simple, ancient way to read the library of scripture. Find it at https://www.nivlectio.com or wherever Bibles are sold!

1:01:17 - Sponsor - J29 Coalition - Guide your church into a Christ-centered approach to politics! Visit https://j29coalition.com to sign up today

1:02:24 - Interview 

1:05:50 - The Refugee Resettlement Program

1:09:44 - We Invited Refugees

1:15:22 - What Options to Help Refugees

1:21:45 - Helping Local Immigrant Communities

1:28:10 - End Credits

Links Mentioned in News Segment:

Evangelicals Made a Bad Trade:

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2025/01/evangelicals-trump/681450/

Collision of Two Christianities:

https://religionnews.com/2025/01/24/inauguration-week-was-a-collision-of-two-christianities/?utm_source=flipboard&utm_content=topic/donaldtrump&utm_medium=social

Other resources:

Learn how recent executive orders are having a devastating impact on thousands of refugees and humanitarian programs both in the U.S. and globally, and find out how you can help make a difference!

Learn more: https://worldrelief.org/stand-in-the-gap/?utm_source=HolyPost&utm_medium=ShowNotes&utm_campaign=EO_UrgentAppeal

Partner with World Relief: https://give.worldrelief.org/site/Donation2?df_id=5541&5541.donation=form1&mfc_pref=T&utm_source=HolyPost&utm_medium=ShowNotes&utm_campaign=EO_UrgentAppeal

Sign the Christian Statement on Refugee Resettlement: https://worldrelief.org/christianstatement/

Easy tool to contact Congress with talking points: https://p2a.co/AEQhezU

Access This Toolkit to Get Involved: https://worldrelief.org/content/uploads/2025/01/World-Relief-Toolkit.pdf

 Holy Post website: https://www.holypost.com/

Holy Post Plus: www.holypost.com/plus

Holy Post Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/holypost

Holy Post Merch Store: https://www.holypost.com/shop

The Holy Post is supported by our listeners. We may earn affiliate commissions through links listed here. As an Amazon Associate, we earn from qualifying purchases.

According to New York Times columnist, David Brooks, our society has given up on moral formation to focus instead on individual success and happiness. Can we recover a culture of shared virtue? Surprising new data shows that overall college enrollment is down, but Christian colleges and universities are growing. What’s the explanation? Then Robert P. Jones, from PRRI, is back to unpack the numbers from the presidential election. Why did more Latinos support Trump, and are Democrats learning the wrong lessons from their loss? Also this week—animals hold grudges.

List of Ways to Contribute:

https://www.holypost.com/post/ways-to-contribute-to-la-fire-relief

Holy Post Plus:

Getting Schooled - Communion 201

https://www.patreon.com/posts/120202366/

0:00 - Show Starts

3:17 - Theme Song

3:40 - Sponsor - Glorify - Sign up for the #1 Christian Daily Devotional App to help you stay focused on God. Go to https://glorify-app.com/en/HOLYPOST to download the app today!

4:43 - Sponsor - Rocket Money - Find and cancel your old subscriptions with Rocket Money at https://www.rocketmoney.com/holypost

5:50 - The Inauguration

8:30 - Connecting to Relief Work

12:05 - Ants’ Tiny Grudges

17:30 - Character Building Toolkit

24:28 - Morally Fragmented World

39:21 - Christian College Growth

44:52 - Sponsor - J29 Coalition - Guide your church into a Christ-centered approach to politics! Visit https://j29coalition.com to sign up today

45:58 - Sponsor - AG1 - Heavily researched, thoroughly purity-tested, and filled with stuff you need. Go to https://www.drinkag1.com/HOLYPOST

47:15 - Interview 

48:50 - Lack of Change

57:01 - Don’t Overread

1:12:44 - Fatigue

1:17:38 - Pray for Wisdom

1:21:40 - End Credits

Links Mentioned in News Segment:

World Relief:

https://worldrelief.org/advocate/

Christian Colleges Continue to See Enrollment Growth:

https://www.christianitytoday.com/2025/01/christian-colleges-continue-enrollment-growth-record/?utm_source=flipboard&utm_content=topic/religion

Biologists Antagonised Ants:

https://cosmosmagazine.com/nature/animals/biologists-antagonised-ants-and-found-out-they-can-hold-grudges/

Other resources:

The Hidden Roots of White Supremacy: and the Path to a Shared American Future by Robert P. Jones: https://a.co/d/5ZoIHOp

White Too Long: The Legacy of White Supremacy in American Christianity by Robert P. Jones: https://a.co/d/0K5cI5W

Robert P. Jones’ Substack: www.whitetoolong.net

Holy Post website: https://www.holypost.com/

Holy Post Plus: www.holypost.com/plus

Holy Post Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/holypost

Holy Post Merch Store: https://www.holypost.com/shop

The Holy Post is supported by our listeners. We may earn affiliate commissions through links listed here. As an Amazon Associate, we earn from qualifying 

purchases.

How can we help those impacted by the L.A. wildfires? Because of A.I., climate change, and falling fertility rates, Ezra Klein says we are living “in the age of monsters,” but is he really just upset about Trump? And how is technology fundamentally rewiring our brains to avoid social interaction, and what should we do about it? Phil, Kaitlyn, and Skye offer their suggestions. Then Kaitlyn talks with Wheaton College theology professor Emily McGowin about her new book, “Households of Faith,” and what it means to think of our families formationally rather than formulaically. Also this week—the new Holy Post studio is killer!

0:00 - Show Starts

2:16 - Theme Song

2:38  - Sponsor - AG1 - Heavily researched, thoroughly purity-tested, and filled with stuff you need. Go to https://www.drinkag1.com/HOLYPOST

3:56 - Sponsor - Learn from some of the world’s most brilliant minds with this 10-day event at Calvin! Go to https://www.calvin.edu/JANUARY

7:57 - California Wildfires

15:22 - The Time of the Monsters

25:11 - The Time for Churches

31:25 - The Anti-Social Century

39:12 - Tiktok and Lonely Routines

45:25 - Bring Back Youth Group!

51:14 - Sponsor - Faithful Counseling - This episode is sponsored by Faithful Counseling. Give online therapy a try at https://www.faithfulcounseling.com/HOLYPOST and get 10% off

52:16 - Sponsor - Pique - Pique’s tea is a superfood in a cup! Comes with a frother and glass beaker—get the starter kit at https://piquelife.com/HOLYPOST

53:53 - Sponsor - J29 Coalition - Guide your church into a Christ-centered approach to politics! Visit https://j29coalition.com to sign up today

55:00 - Interview

56:42 - Why Write About Family?

1:00:40 - Discernment and Improvisation

1:08:04 - Family of God

1:16:05 - Sabbath for Fellowship

1:22:31 - Rhythms of Life  

1:29:30 - End Credits

Households of Faith: Practicing Family in the Kingdom of God by Emily Hunter McGowin: https://a.co/d/7hd5XIW

Links Mentioned in News Segment:

Ezra Klein’s “Now is the Time of the Monsters:”

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/01/12/opinion/ai-climate-change-low-birth-rates.html

The Anti-Social Century:

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2025/02/american-loneliness-personality-politics/681091/

Other resources:

Holy Post website: https://www.holypost.com/

Holy Post Plus: www.holypost.com/plus

Holy Post Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/holypost

Holy Post Merch Store: https://www.holypost.com/shop

The Holy Post is supported by our listeners. We may earn affiliate commissions through links listed here. As an Amazon Associate, we earn from qualifying purchases.

Former president and born again Christian, Jimmy Carter, died at the age of 100. As the media reflects on his legacy of public service and humanitarianism, some are contrasting Carter’s faith with that of conservative white evangelicals. Esau McCaulley says Carter is being used as a cudgel by progressives to shame their political opponents. Is he right? Skye and Phil unpack two explanations for the country’s rejection of President Carter for Ronald Reagan in 1980. Was Carter too liberal or too humble? Then, pastor and Holy Post Pundit, Gabriel Salguero, is back to talk about a second Trump administration’s plan to deport millions of undocumented immigrants, and how Christians and church leaders should hope for the best but prepare for the worst. Also this week—Phil wants to do a telethon for turtles. 

Holy Post Plus

Getting Schooled - Heresy 101:

https://www.patreon.com/posts/119252265/

0:00 - Show Starts

3:51 - Theme Song

4:12  - Sponsor - Sundays Dog Food - Get 40% off your first order of Sundays. Go to https://www.SundaysForDogs.com/HOLYPOST or use code HOLYPOST at checkout

5:15 - Sponsor - Hiya Health - Go to www.hiyahealth.com/HOLYPOST to receive 50% off your first order 

6:54 - News of the Bubble Butt Turtles

16:15 - Jimmy Carter’s Legacy

23:36 - Is Carter Popular for Being a Progressive Evangelical?

30:36 - Carter, Mr. Rogers, and Pope Francis

49:42 - Sponsor - Wheaton - Go to www.wheaton.edu/communicatingchrist to learn more about the Doctor of Ministry program at the Wheaton College grad school 

50:46 - Sponsor - Faithful Counseling - This episode is sponsored by Faithful Counseling. Give online therapy a try at https://www.faithfulcounseling.com/HOLYPOST and get 10% off 

51:53 - Interview

59:24 - The Ambiguity of the Trump Administration

1:11:46 - Developing a Pastoral Response

1:22:03 - Signs of Mass Deportation

1:28:18 - End Credits  

Links Mentioned in News Segment:

Sea Turtle Bubble Butt 3D Printing:

 https://www.npr.org/2024/12/28/nx-s1-5238294/sea-turtle-bubble-butt

Jimmy Carter Embodied the “Road Not Taken” by Many White Evangelical Christians:

 https://www.cnn.com/2024/12/31/us/jimmy-carter-evangelical-christians-cec?cid=ios_app

Jimmy Carter’s Life Should Make Christian Right Feel Ashamed:

https://www.thedailybeast.com/jimmy-carter-represented-christianity-in-politics-at-its-best/

Other resources:

Holy Post website: https://www.holypost.com/

Holy Post Plus: www.holypost.com/plus 

Holy Post Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/holypost

Holy Post Merch Store: https://www.holypost.com/shop

The Holy Post is supported by our listeners. We may earn affiliate commissions through links listed here. As an Amazon Associate, we earn from qualifying purchases.

Happy new year! We’re starting 2025 by answering questions from the Holy Post audience. You’ve asked us about movies and shows we are looking forward to this year, and what regrets we have about things we’ve said in the past. Phil explains his fashion choices, Skye explains why he’s still a conservative, and Kaitlyn has an idea for replacing “News of the Butt.” Plus, will there be enough room for everyone in the new heavens and earth?

0:00 - Show Starts

2:57 - Theme Song

3:18 - Sponsor - Rocket Money - Find and cancel your old subscriptions with Rocket Money at https://www.rocketmoney.com/holypost

4:26 - Blueland - Get up to 25% off your first order by going to https://www.Blueland.com/HOLYPOST

5:33 - Sponsor - AG1 - Heavily researched, thoroughly purity-tested, and filled with stuff you need. Go to https://www.drinkag1.com/HOLYPOST

8:20 - Skye's FBI Hat

11:42 - Public Statement Regrets

18:50 - News of the Butt Replacement?

22:01 - Movies and Shows Coming Out in 2025

26:15 - Loving Your Enemies When They're Hurting Others

35:37 - Holy Post: Liberal or Conservative?

47:35 - What Should Phil Wear?

52:44 - Not a Political Talk Podcast

1:03:57 - How to Fit All the People in Heaven

1:10:09 - End Credits

Other resources:

Holy Post website: https://www.holypost.com/

Holy Post Plus: www.holypost.com/plus

Holy Post Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/holypost

Holy Post Merch Store: https://www.holypost.com/shop

The Holy Post is supported by our listeners. We may earn affiliate commissions through links listed here. As an Amazon Associate, we earn from qualifying purchases.