Mike Cosper and Rebekah Sebastian sit down with Chris Lane, District Attorney of Floyd County, Indiana, and Matt Martens, a Washington, D.C. defense attorney and author of Reforming Criminal Justice: A Christian Proposal.

Together, they unpack the tensions between prosecution and defense, the challenges created by systemic limitations, and the unique factors in the West Memphis 3 case that frustrated and bewildered so many of us. 

We’re grateful to Chris Lane and Matt Martens for joining us for this illuminating and generous conversation.

Please consider liking the DDBS Facebook  page to keep up on all show news, livestreams and for conversations with other listeners.

Devil and the Deep Blue Sea is a production of Christianity Today Hosted and written by Mike Cosper Produced by Rebekah Sebastian, with production assistance by Dawn Adams Sound Design and Mix Engineer: TJ Hester Sound Design, Animation, and Video: Steve Scheidler Graphic Design: Nim Ben Reuven Music by Dirt Poor Robins Erik Petrik and Mike Cosper are the executive producers of CT Media Podcasts, and Matt Stevens is our senior producer. 

If you enjoyed this episode, please leave us a rating and review to help more people find the show. Thanks for listening. 

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In this bonus episode of The Devil and the Deep Blue Sea, Mike Cosper sits down with former Congressman Adam Kinzinger for an intimate and wide-ranging conversation about January 6th, conspiracy thinking in the church and in congress, and the price he paid for speaking truth to power.

Kinzinger shares what it was like to be inside the Capitol as the insurrection unfolded, and the spiritual deconstruction and political reckoning that followed. This conversation is a powerful reminder of how easily truth can be distorted when we mistake political victory for divine mandate.

We close with an excerpt from Kinzinger’s 2022 farewell address on the House floor. The full speech is linked below and well worth your time. Mike’s substack is also linked below.

Congressman Adam Kinzinger’s Farewell Speech to Congress

https://www.c-span.org/program/us-house-of-representatives/representative-adam-kinzinger-farewell-speech/621823

Amor Dei, Amor Mundo, Mike Cosper’s Substack

https://substack.com/@mikecosper

Please consider liking the DDBS Facebook  page to keep up on all show news, livestreams and for conversations with other listeners.

Devil and the Deep Blue Sea is a production of Christianity Today Hosted and written by Mike Cosper Produced by Rebekah Sebastian, with production assistance by Dawn Adams Sound Design and Mix Engineer: TJ Hester Sound Design, Animation, and Video: Steve Scheidler Graphic Design: Nim Ben Reuven Music by Dirt Poor Robins Erik Petrik and Mike Cosper are the executive producers of CT Media Podcasts, and Matt Stevens is our senior producer. 

If you enjoyed this episode, please leave us a rating and review to help more people find the show. Thanks for listening. 

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In this bonus episode of Devil and the Deep Blue Sea, we explore one of the most difficult and essential topics raised in season 1: abuse.

Joined by guests Colleen Ramser and Mary DeMuth, we discuss the complexities of trauma, memory, and belief, especially when it comes to hearing and honoring the stories of survivors. From systemic failures in churches to the personal weight of silence and shame, this conversation is both heavy and hopeful.

You’ll also find links below to the important work and resources offered by our guests.

Mary DeMuth

https://www.marydemuth.com/ 

wetoo.org 

Colleen Ramser

https://colleenramser.com/

Please consider liking the DDBS Facebook page to keep up on all show news, livestreams, and conversations with other listeners.

Devil and the Deep Blue Sea is a production of Christianity Today 

Hosted and written by Mike Cosper 

Produced by Rebekah Sebastian, with production assistance by Dawn Adams 

Sound Design and Mix Engineer: TJ Hester 

Sound Design, Animation, and Video: Steve Scheidler 

Graphic Design: Nim Ben Reuven 

Music by Dirt Poor Robins 

Erik Petrik and Mike Cosper are the executive producers of CT Media Podcasts, and Matt Stevens is our senior producer. 

If you enjoyed this episode, please leave us a rating and review to help more people find the show. Thanks for listening.  

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Season One may be wrapped—but the story isn’t over.

In this bonus episode of The Devil and the Deep Blue Sea, we bring you a dynamic conversation between two returning guests—Matthew D. Taylor

You’ll also hear from a DDBS from a listener in Australia, who recounts the chilling true story of a fatal exorcism that took place in rural Australia in 1993.

And finally, we take a moment to honor the life and legacy of Duane Rollins, a pivotal voice in exposing abuse within the Southern Baptist

Join the DDBS Facebook group to be part of the group and catch our next livestream.

 We will be back in one week with an all-new episode.

 Devil and the Deep Blue Sea is a production of Christianity Today

Hosted and written by Mike Cosper

Produced by Rebekah Sebastian, with production assistance by

Sound Design and Mix Engineer: TJ Hester

Sound Design, Animation, and Video: Steve Scheidler

Graphic Design: Nim Ben Reuven

Music by Dirt Poor Robins

Erik Petrik and Mike Cosper are the executive producers of

If you enjoyed this episode, please leave us a rating and

 Can’t wait for the next episode? Join host Mike Cosper for a livestream every other Monday on the CT YouTube channel or the Devil and the

 Join our Facebook group for deeper conversations and

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Stay tuned to the end for news from Mike Cosper and Rebekah Sebastian on upcoming Bonus episodes!

In the finale of Devil and the Deep Blue Sea, we try to do the impossible: tie the threads together. From criminal cases to political crusades, we retrace the lines between fear, faith, and power that shaped the Satanic Panic—and continue influencing our world today.

Mike Cosper and Rebekah Sebastian open with a game that highlights just how absurd things got, then dive into the deeper questions: Why did the Satanic Panic take hold? And how does it compare to modern conspiracies like Pizzagate, QAnon, and the January 6 insurrection?

Spoiler: The panic didn’t entirely vanish—it morphed into a tool for grievance, repurposed by conspiracy theorists to target their perceived enemies.

Bonus episodes are still to come, so stay subscribed. And if this series made you think, feel, or question, share it with a friend.

Resources:

The Roys Report: “James Robison Under Fire for Discrepancies Regarding Involvement with Robert Morris in 1980s” by Julie Roys

Mike Rothschild, author, Jewish Space Lasers

Matthew D. Taylor, senior Christian scholar at the Institute for Islamic, Christian, and Jewish Studies

Mike Warnke Tribunal Board hearing

West Memphis Three case

Devil and the Deep Blue Sea is a production of Christianity Today

Hosted and written by Mike Cosper

Produced by Rebekah Sebastian, with production assistance by Dawn Adams

Sound Design and Mix Engineer: TJ Hester

Sound Design, Animation, and Video: Steve Scheidler

Graphic Design: Nim Ben Reuven

Music by Dirt Poor Robins

Erik Petrik and Mike Cosper are the executive producers of CT Media Podcasts, and Matt Stevens is our senior producer.

If you enjoyed this episode, please leave us a rating and review to help more people find the show. Thanks for listening.

Can’t wait for the next episode? Join host Mike Cosper for a livestream every other Monday on the CT YouTube channel or the Devil and the Deep Blue Sea Facebook page. 

Join our Facebook group for deeper conversations and behind-the-scenes content.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

As we approach the end of the series, we learn that the Satanic Panic didn’t end with a bang. It was more of a slow fade-out. The Religious Right had secured major political and cultural victories. Evangelicals no longer needed Satan to galvanize their movement—their influence was cemented. Fear of the Devil simply became less useful. 

Today’s episode marks a turning point in the series. Join us as we revisit the concept of memory—this time with two experts who spent their careers trying to properly understand it.  Retired FBI agent Kenneth Lanning, one of the earliest skeptics inside law enforcement during the Satanic Panic, reveals how disturbing allegations collapsed under the weight of their own implausibility. 

Elizabeth Loftus, renowned cognitive psychologist and professor, has shown how easily false memories can be implanted, reshaped, and believed with unwavering conviction. Together, these two experts help us begin to answer a central question of this season: How did the Satanic Panic end? And what are the consequences of believing, prosecuting, and punishing based on memory alone?

Resources:

Kenneth Lanning, retired FBI agent

Elizabeth Loftus, PhD, psychologist and educator

Devil and the Deep Blue Sea is a production of Christianity Today

Hosted and written by Mike Cosper

Produced by Rebekah Sebastian, with production assistance by Dawn Adams

Sound Design and Mix Engineer: TJ Hester

Sound Design, Animation, and Video: Steve Scheidler

Graphic Design: Nim Ben Reuven

Music by Dirt Poor Robins

Erik Petrik and Mike Cosper are the executive producers of CT Media Podcasts, and Matt Stevens is our senior producer.

If you enjoyed this episode, please leave us a rating and review to help more people find the show. Thanks for listening.

Can’t wait for the next episode? Join host Mike Cosper for a livestream every other Monday on the CT YouTube channel or the Devil and the Deep Blue Sea Facebook page. 

Join our Facebook group for deeper conversations and behind-the-scenes content.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Remember Mike Warnke, the world’s #1 Christian comedian from Episode 3? We’ll revisit his story with a little fact-checking, but first, we introduce you to another infamous figure of the Satanic Panic: Lauren Stratford. Her memoir, Satan’s Underground, recounted her harrowing experience with satanic ritual abuse in vivid, gruesome detail—capturing the imagination of millions. However, years after her book became a bestseller, her story was thoroughly debunked as a complete fabrication. But Lauren wasn't done. She resurfaced with a new name and a whole new grift.

As we unpack her rise and fall, we’ll also explore the broader cultural forces at play during the Satanic Panic. From the rise of daycare culture sparking anxieties around working mothers to the growing awareness of child sexual abuse, we examine how these societal fears were manipulated by the media to create and spread exaggerated, harmful narratives.

Resources:

Devil and the Deep Blue Sea is a production of Christianity Today

Hosted and written by Mike Cosper

Produced by Rebekah Sebastian, with production assistance by Dawn Adams

Sound Design and Mix Engineer: TJ Hester

Sound Design, Animation, and Video: Steve Scheidler

Graphic Design: Nim Ben Reuven

Music by Dirt Poor Robins

Erik Petrik and Mike Cosper are the executive producers of CT Media Podcasts, and Matt Stevens is our senior producer.

If you enjoyed this episode, please leave us a rating and review to help more people find the show. Thanks for listening.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The Devil and the Deep Blue Sea team is on spring break, so we’re taking this opportunity to bring you something a little different. In this interview with show creator and host Mike Cosper, we explore how the ripple effects of the Satanic Panic still echo today. You’ll also learn the story behind the series title—and Mike answers a burning question: Has the church ever truly reckoned with its role in the panic?



Then, stick around for a special bonus: some of our favorite moments from the Devil and the Deep Blue Sea livestreams, where we go off-script and deeper into the story with special guests and listeners like you.

Join the DDBS Facebook group to be part of the group and catch our next livestream.

We will be back in one week with an all-new episode. 

Devil and the Deep Blue Sea is a production of Christianity Today

Hosted and written by Mike Cosper

Produced by Rebekah Sebastian, with production assistance by Dawn Adams

Sound Design and Mix Engineer: TJ Hester

Sound Design, Animation, and Video: Steve Scheidler

Graphic Design: Nim Ben Reuven

Music by Dirt Poor Robins

Erik Petrik and Mike Cosper are the executive producers of CT Media Podcasts, and Matt Stevens is our senior producer.

If you enjoyed this episode, please leave us a rating and review to help more people find the show. Thanks for listening.

Can’t wait for the next episode? Join host Mike Cosper for a livestream every other Monday on the CT YouTube channel or the Devil and the Deep Blue Sea Facebook page. 

Join our Facebook group for deeper conversations and behind-the-scenes content.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Do you hear what I hear? Backmasking. 

From the Beatles to Led Zeppelin, rumors of hidden, subversive messages in popular music sent Christians into a frenzy. Backmasking wasn’t just a recording trick—it was seen as proof that rock musicians weren’t just after album sales but after the very souls of our children. Today, we’re unpacking the hysteria around backmasking, but first let’s explore the conservative resurgence and the world events that set the stage for a full-blown moral panic.

We’ll begin at the 1984 Los Angeles Olympics, where megachurches mobilized thousands of evangelists to the spiritual frontlines of the world games, then we’ll head south to the buried secrets within the Southern Baptist Convention. At the center of this resurgence were two men with unchecked power—Paul Pressler and Paige Patterson. Their legacy was once seen as the North Star of conservative values but would later be tainted by allegations of abuse and cover-ups that exposed the very evil they claimed to stand against.

Join our Facebook group for deeper conversations and behind-the-scenes content.

Can’t wait for the next episode? Join host Mike Cosper for a livestream every other Monday on the CT YouTube channel or the Devil and the Deep Blue Sea Facebook page. 

Resources:

Devil and the Deep Blue Sea is a production of Christianity Today

Hosted and written by Mike Cosper

Produced by Rebekah Sebastian, with production assistance by Dawn Adams

Sound Design and Mix Engineer: TJ Hester

Sound Design, Animation, and Video: Steve Scheidler

Graphic Design: Nim Ben Reuven

Music by Dirt Poor Robins

Erik Petrik and Mike Cosper are the executive producers of CT Media Podcasts, and Matt Stevens is our senior producer.

If you enjoyed this episode, please leave us a rating and review to help more people find the show. Thanks for listening.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In today’s episode, we’re exploring how fear and false memories motivated us to believe stories that were horrific yet too compelling to check. It started with Jay’s Journal, where Beatrice Sparks transformed teenage angst into a cautionary tale of demonic possession. Then, Michelle Remembers, the book that introduced the idea that buried trauma could be unlocked through recovered memory therapy—if only you had the right guide.

But the idea that memories—especially traumatic ones—could be buried and later uncovered wasn’t new. In the late 19th century, Sigmund Freud’s patient, known as Fräulein Anna O., became the foundation for his theories on female hysteria, repression, and recovered memory. Her case set the stage for a century of psychological experiments that blurred the line between therapy and suggestion.

And then came McMartin Preschool. In 1983, a single accusation spiraled into the most expensive criminal trial in US history. With no physical evidence, only the increasingly elaborate claims of children, the nation still believed in secret tunnels and Satanic abuse.

So who were the real victims? The children, coached into giving adults the stories they wanted? The daycare workers, whose lives were destroyed? The terrified parents who surely only wanted justice for their children? Or the storytellers—Beatrice Sparks, Lawrence Pazder—who sold fear as truth, convincing the world that the Devil was lurking behind every door?

Resources:

Devil and the Deep Blue Sea is a production of Christianity Today

Hosted and written by Mike Cosper

Produced by Rebekah Sebastian, with production assistance by Dawn Adams

Sound Design and Mix Engineer: TJ Hester

Sound Design, Animation, and Video: Steve Scheidler

Graphic Design: Nim Ben Reuven

Music by Dirt Poor Robins

Erik Petrik and Mike Cosper are the executive producers of CT Media Podcasts, and Matt Stevens is our senior producer.

If you enjoyed this episode, please leave us a rating and review to help more people find the show. Thanks for listening.

Can’t wait for the next episode? Join host Mike Cosper for a livestream every other Monday on the CT YouTube channel or the Devil and the Deep Blue Sea Facebook page. 

Join our Facebook group for deeper conversations and behind-the-scenes content.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices