Get your ticket for the Exiles Conference in Minneapolis! April 28-May 2! https://www.theologyintheraw.com/exiles26

In the last few months, there’s been fresh conversation about hell—sparked in part by Kirk Cameron's seeming endorsement of annihilationism. Of course, this sparked a flood of Twitter threads, and YouTube reactions about the nature of hell. 

But this isn’t a new debate.

Christians have wrestled with the nature of hell for centuries. While eternal conscious torment has been the dominant view in the Western church, annihilationism (or conditional immortality) has deep historical roots as well. And proponents on both sides take Scripture seriously.

In this episode, I sit down with Paul Copan and Chris Date to talk through the biblical and theological case for their respective views. Paul is a philosopher and apologist at Palm Beach Atlantic University and the author of over 40 books, including Is God a Moral Monster? Chris is a theologian and the voice behind Rethinking Hell and Theopologetics, where he’s written and spoken extensively in defense of annihilationism.

If debates aren't your thing... don't worry. This one was super conversational and friendly. They disagree, but they're good friends and are confident enough in their convictions that they don't feel the need to attack or strawman each other. 

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Become a member of the TITR community on Patreon to check out our "Extra Innings" conversation about why Christian women struggle with so much guilt.

Register for Exiles in Babylon: www.theologyintheraw.com/exiles26

Elyse holds a certificate in biblical counseling from CCEF (San Diego) and an M.A. in Biblical Counseling from Trinity Theological Seminary. She has authored 23 books on daily living and the Christian life, including her recently released Friend of Sinners: Lent Devotions on Following the Crucified King.

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For over 3 1/2 years, I researched what the Bible says about women in church leadership. I didn't have a conclusion when I started out. I just wanted to understand what the Bible says about the topic and sort through all the scholarly debates on all sides. I write about all of this in my new book From Genesis to Junia: An Honest Search for What the Bible Really Says about Women in Leadership. And I sum up my book in this epiosde. 

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Over twenty years ago, Stephen McWhirter was a meth addict and wounded preacher’s kid who had a radical encounter with Jesus. Today, he travels the world leading worship, sharing his testimony, and seeing many people come to Christ. His song “Come Jesus Come” has amassed over one hundred million views and streams across platforms. Today, Stephen is an artist and writer with Capitol Christian Music Group and Re:think Music. And is the author of the book Radically Restored: How Knowing Jesus Heals Our Brokenness

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I traveled to Minneapolis to sit down with several local Christian leaders to learn what's really going on in the city. To the suprise of no one, what's really going on is far more complex than what you'll hear about in the media. And local churches have come together in beautify and powerful ways to care for those who have been traumatized by recent events. Carl Nelson is the President & Chief Executive Officer for Transform Minnesota--an awesome organization that provides space for pastors and Christian leaders to wrestle through complex issues from a biblical perspective. Schelli Cronk is the COO for Transform Minnesota, and Dave Brickey is the lead pastor of Open Door church, which hosts the Exiles in Babylon Conference.

Learn More!

https://theologyintheraw.com/exiles26/

https://transformmn.org

https://thedoor.org

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Head over to Patreon to become a TITR member to gain access to this extra innings portion of our conversation.

Check out When God Seems Distant by past guest Dr. Kyle Strobel and John Coe. Available here.

Dr. W. Lee Warren, MD, is a neurosurgeon, an award-winning author, an Iraq War veteran, and the host of The Dr. Lee Warren Podcast. He teaches the art of connecting neuroscience, faith, and daily practices for leading a healthier, better, and happier life. His latest book is The Life-Changing Art of Self-Brain Surgery: Connecting Neuroscience and Faith to Radically Transform Your Life, which forms the basis of our fascinating conversation. We also explore questions surrounding gender identity among young people and why some people are unwilling to change their minds, in our extra innings portion of this episode.

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Exiles in Babylon Conference! Join us in Minneapolis, April 30-May 2, 2026. Register here

Angela Weszely, Founder & CEO of “Pro Grace”—an organization that seeks to be is a trusted guide for Christians seeking to resemble Jesus in the abortion conversation. Angela is the author of the recently released book Becoming ProGrace: Expanding the Abortion Conversation Beyond Life Versus Choice. 

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Register for the Exiles in Babylon conference! April 30-May 2 (Minneapolis, MN).

Kyle Strobel (Ph.D. University of Aberdeen) is a systematic theologian who teaches spiritual theology for the Biola University Talbot School of Theology Institute for Spiritual Formation and Spiritual Formation Focus programs. He’s the author of several books including his most recent book When God Seems Distant: Surprising Ways God Deepens Our Faith and Draws Us Near.

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David Green is the founder of Hobby Lobby and is a major financial supporter of Evangelical organizations in the United States and funded the Museum of the Bible in Washington, D.C. He’s the author or co-author of several books, including the recently released The Legacy Life: Leading your family to Make a difference for Eternity, which he coauthored with Bill High. Bill was able to join us for the first several min, but then I think his internet cut out, so it ended up just being David and I talking shop. 

Preorder my upcoming book on Women in leadership: https://a.co/d/bRu0N8u

Check out the Exiles Conference in Minneapolis, April 30-May 2: https://www.theologyintheraw.com/exiles26

Get your free resource from Voice of the Martyrs: vom.org/InTheRaw

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Exiles in Babylon Conference is coming soon! Join us in Minneapolis, April 30-May 2. Details at www.theologyintheraw.com/exiles26

nobigdyl. is a Christian hip-hop phenom. He's known most for combining concept driven lyricism with eclectic production. Musically he bounces from hard-hitting to ethereal—pulling from trap, jazz, golden era hip hop, underground and beyond to create his own sound. The Dove-Award winning, President Obama Playlisted, NPR Tiny Desk Contest Fan Favorite rapper is a storyteller at heart. His lyrics are part memoir, part stream of consciousness, as he wrestles with concepts such as faith, ego, love, and loss.

Songs used with Permission:

• Stay by indie tribe
• Tribe on the Move by DJ Mykael V and indie tribe
• imago interlude by nobigdyl.

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