Does it matter whether we feel sorry when we ask for forgiveness?

In this conversation, Rabbi Dr. Joshua Berman returns to discuss the surprising findings of his long-term research into forgiveness in the Hebrew Bible. The biblical word slicha (“forgiveness”) appears only in relation to God—not between people. In fact, there is no word for “apology” in biblical Hebrew.

So how were offenses resolved?

Drawing on honor culture studies and examples ranging from Jacob and Esau to Judah and Tamar, Dr. Berman argues that ancient Israel operated within a different moral economy. Reconciliation was not primarily about emotional sincerity or repairing inner feelings—it was about restoring public order and status. Offense disrupted hierarchy; reconciliation restored it.

From duels between Hamilton and Burr to modern military and team dynamics, Berman shows how deeply culture shapes what we mean by “forgiveness.” The result is a paradigm shift that challenges modern Western assumptions about apology, sincerity, and moral transformation.

The conversation concludes with the launch of Dr. Berman’s new podcast, The Bible Bar, dedicated to exploring Scripture chapter by chapter with intellectual and spiritual integrity.

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In this eye-opening conversation, PhD researcher Abigail Pasiuk joins Dr. Dru Johnson to explore how the Hebrew Bible can inform modern conversations about mass incarceration. Drawing on her personal experience—her father’s time in federal prison—and academic research at Oxford, Abby offers a theologically rich critique of retributive justice models prevalent in the U.S. prison system.

She explains how biblical justice prioritizes restoration and dignity rather than dehumanization, citing key themes such as the Shema and imago Dei. Abby shares firsthand accounts from interviews with incarcerated individuals, exposing everyday indignities—from food labeled “not for human consumption” to being stripped of identity and reduced to a number. With over 80% recidivism in the U.S., Abby points to countries like Norway where restorative practices and the “principle of normalcy” have dramatically reduced reoffense.

The episode challenges listeners to rethink what justice should look like through a biblical lens: not just punishment, but humanizing correction rooted in love. It’s a conversation that bridges theology, criminology, and real human stories—urging the church to see prisoners not as disposable, but as image-bearers.

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What if theology isn’t something abstract but grows directly from the soil beneath our feet? In this episode, Dr. Cynthia Shafer-Elliott and Dr. Libby Backfish discuss their new book Grounded Theology, which argues that Israel’s theological reflections were deeply intertwined with daily life—especially as subsistence farmers in a land marked by both promise and struggle.

Drawing on archaeological discoveries from ancient households, the conversation explores how everyday artifacts like loom weights and ovens reveal Israelite religious practices not just in temples, but in kitchens. The land itself—its fertility, harshness, and rhythms—shaped covenantal faithfulness and theological imagination. They challenge modern listeners to reevaluate their own “floating theology” and rediscover the formative power of embodied life, land stewardship, and communal labor.

With humor, honesty, and deep insight, the guests call for a return to theology that is firmly grounded—in history, material reality, and the lived experience of Israel.

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Why does Scripture so often portray women as central to God’s work of redemption—even in stories of deep dysfunction and failure? In this episode, Dr. Ingrid Faro, Old Testament scholar and interim president of Northern Seminary, joins Dru Johnson to explore her groundbreaking work in Redeeming Eden: How Women in the Bible Advance the Story of Salvation.

Dr. Faro shares how her personal journey through theological trauma, cultic church experiences, and academic discovery led her to reexamine Genesis 1–3 and the women of the Bible. She explains how Hebrew terms like ezer and tzelah (often translated “helper” and “rib”) have been misunderstood, how Eve’s story actually radiates hope, and how strategic female figures consistently propel salvation history forward.

The conversation also tackles misinterpretations of Genesis 3:16, the patterns of dysfunction and healing across the biblical narrative, and what the Bible really says about evil. This episode is a deep and hopeful reconsideration of gender, power, and goodness within the story of Scripture.

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00:00 The Importance of Women in the Bible

Can you trust that viral “Bible connection” you just saw on TikTok?

In this episode, Matt Swale, author of "Scripture’s Use of Scripture in the Old Testament," joins Dr. Dru Johnson to discuss how biblical allusions really work—and why we need better instincts and better tools when interpreting Scripture. Swale wrote the book to help lay readers and undergraduates navigate the exciting (and sometimes overhyped) world of intertextuality: how one passage of Scripture evokes another, often subtly, and with profound rhetorical effect.

They explore his criteria for spotting allusions—rare terms, thematic coherence, and rhetorical fit—while affirming the emotional and spiritual value of hunting for connections. From Genesis 3 and Luke 24 to Judges 19 and Genesis 19, Swale shows how true allusions enrich our understanding, while false positives can mislead or confuse.

Swale also urges humility: “You want to make sure it’s real,” he says. “False positives are part of the process.” He encourages listeners to use tools like reference Bibles, read in community, and learn from scholars—while warning against treating academic access as priestly gatekeeping.

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In this episode, Dru Johnson and Mike Tolliver reflect on the Center for Hebraic Thought’s evolving impact and expanding community. They revisit the promise made in 2025 to annually assess their work and celebrate how that commitment has borne fruit: from the flourishing Hebraic Thought Facebook community and its scripture reading groups, to the launch of a Michael Polanyi reading club. They announce the inaugural Bible First Conference Series, co-hosted with the American Bible Society, exploring how various Christian traditions engage politics through a biblical lens.

The conversation highlights recent standout books—many by past podcast guests—including Becoming God’s People by Carmen Imes, Leviticus on the Butcher’s Block by Phil Bray, and Grounded Theology by Cynthia Schaefer-Elliott and Libby Backfish. Dru and Mike also preview the new Tracing Biblical Thought book series, designed to bring scholarly insights to general audiences in accessible 100-page volumes.

The episode closes with a candid discussion about cultural headwinds—from Stoicism to Neoplatonism—and the Center’s commitment to reclaiming biblical categories for the church. They emphasize the need for translations and tools, like the Lexham English Bible and the NET Bible, that bring readers closer to the thought world of Scripture.

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00:00 Navigating Change: New Beginnings in 2026

What happens when an Australian butcher starts reading Leviticus—and finds it fun? In this unique episode, Dru Johnson speaks with Phil Bray, author of Leviticus on the Butcher’s Block, about how his day job cutting lambs and steaks helped him see the book of Leviticus in a whole new light. Phil traces his journey from casual Bible reader to Leviticus superfan, exploring how rituals, sacrifice, and atonement make far more sense when you’ve broken down hundreds of animals by hand.

Phil shares how ancient sacrificial rituals weren’t necessarily about violent death but about preparing food as a gift to God. The conversation dives into the Hebrew understanding of holiness, clean vs. unclean, and why God’s presence is depicted as a space without disease or death. Along the way, Phil and Dru reflect on Mary Douglas, Jewish slaughter laws, the power of smell and memory, and how the altar isn’t where the animal dies—but where it becomes holy.

Phil’s insights bring theology and meat science into one coherent (and hilarious) frame, showing why Leviticus is deeply spiritual, richly embodied, and more relevant than most Christians assume.

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In this episode, Old Testament scholar Dr. Carmen Imes unpacks widespread Christian misunderstandings of Torah and shows how the laws of the Old Testament were never meant as a means of salvation, but as a way of living out Israel’s covenant identity. Rather than a legalistic burden, Torah was a gift of freedom—a lifestyle for a people already redeemed.

Dr. Imes explains how Jesus wasn’t raising the bar beyond Sinai but calling his followers back to its original heart: internal transformation, not external compliance. Through examples like the command against coveting and teachings on oath-making, she demonstrates how the Torah shaped a moral imagination rooted in God’s character.

She also reveals the narrative logic of Israel’s law: it was given within a story of deliverance, not in abstraction. Laws were embedded in history, and many operated more like wisdom paradigms than court-enforceable codes. This narrative-law fusion is unique to Israel among ancient Near Eastern cultures.

With compelling insights into the Ten Commandments, patriarchal structures, and agricultural ethics like gleaning, Imes challenges modern Christians to reinterpret Torah as a resource for discipleship—not something to discard, but to embody. Torah becomes not a list of rules, but a lens for living justly in every generation.

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0:00 Why the Torah isn't what gave salvation to the Israelites

ICYMI: This episode is one of our earliest episodes, and originally aired on 5/14/2020

In this introductory conversation, Dr. Jonathan Pennington joins the Center for Hebraic Thought as its newest fellow and shares how his journey through philosophy and biblical scholarship led him to see the New Testament as part of a deeply sophisticated intellectual tradition. Pennington discusses how early Christianity, though written in Greek and shaped within a Hellenistic world, did not abandon its Jewish roots but rather translated its robust metaphysic across cultural lines.

Drawing from his work on Jesus as a philosopher, Pennington explains that the New Testament doesn’t reject or capitulate to Greco-Roman philosophy—it stands alongside it, often outthinking and outlasting it. In contrast to Stoicism’s emotional detachment and denial of suffering’s reality, the Bible presents a profoundly realistic vision: a God who enters the world, values the body, and promises the restoration of creation through Shalom.

Pennington argues that Jesus—especially in Matthew’s Gospel—functions as a public philosopher. In moments like the Sermon on the Mount or debates with religious elites, Jesus offers strikingly rational, ethical, and metaphysical responses to life’s biggest questions.

This episode introduces not only a new CHT fellow, but a vision of Scripture as intellectually vibrant, emotionally honest, and endlessly translatable.

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What happens when the tech elite of Silicon Valley use their skills to serve the church?

In this episode, Kevin Kim, executive director of Crazy Love Ministries and founder of Basil Tech, joins Dr. Dru Johnson to explore a radical idea: that technology, creativity, and innovation can be spiritual gifts to build up the Body of Christ. Drawing from his experiences with venture capitalists, Stanford designers, and software engineers from Apple and Google, Kevin explains how Basil Tech mobilizes volunteers to serve ministries with world-class digital tools.

But this isn’t just about flashy apps or slick design. Kevin critiques the tech industry’s isolating, consumeristic culture—and shares how discipleship must involve “laying down your non-fungible gift” for the good of others. From reimagining the sermon to redesigning urban ministry in East Palo Alto, his work shows that thoughtful innovation, when grounded in Scripture and humility, can fuel mission and foster true community.

“We don’t make anything better—we’ve made things worse at Basil,” Kevin jokes, “but we try to help amazing people do amazing things.” This conversation invites listeners to rethink what tech can do—not as an idol, but as a tool in God’s hands.

Connect with Kevin Kim's Basil Tech here:

https://www.basiltech.org/

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00:00 Journey into Tech and Faith