Where is God present—and how do believers describe it?

In this thoughtful and poetic episode, Polish theologian Dr. Elżbieta Łazarewicz-Wyrzykowska joins Dru Johnson to reflect on theology, trauma, and spiritual presence. From her childhood in Warsaw—where bullet holes and tanks marked the legacy of war—to her academic path through Hebrew Bible, literary theory, and empirical psychology, Elżbieta has never stopped asking difficult questions.

They discuss her research into the Book of Amos using the philosophical insights of Mikhail Bakhtin, seeing God as the “author” of Israel and disobedience as a form of anti-creation. They also explore her current interdisciplinary work in the psychology of religion: “We tried to measure where people locate God’s presence. Eucharist was the one thing people named first.”

She reflects on the tension between empirical categories and theological meaning: “God is present in special objects” didn’t resonate. But “God is present in the Eucharist”? That made sense. “I still wanted to be faithful to what the community told me.”

This episode is a masterclass in humility, scholarship, and the quiet brilliance of a scholar working at the intersection of Scripture, philosophy, trauma, and pastoral care.

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00:00 Introduction and Personal Background