In this episode, biblical scholar Jeffrey Garcia joins Dru Johnson to unpack one of the most misunderstood groups in the New Testament: the Pharisees. Prompted by recent public comments from U.S. Secretary of War Pete Hegseth, the conversation explores how the term “Pharisee” has often been used as a caricature for hypocrisy—and why that misunderstanding can contribute to anti-Jewish and anti-Semitic attitudes.

Drawing from the Gospels, Acts, ancient Judaism, and the Dead Sea Scrolls, Dr. Garcia explains that the Pharisees were not simply legalistic villains opposed to Jesus. Instead, many Pharisees shared substantial theological ground with Jesus and were actively engaged in serious debates about how to faithfully live out God’s commandments. The episode also examines how Christian preaching has historically oversimplified the Pharisees, why phrases like “Christ killer” emerged from these distortions, and how pastors and churches can teach the New Testament more responsibly today.

We are listener supported. Give to the cause here:

For more articles:

Social Links:

Chapters:

See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

What does it truly mean to have a vocation—and how is it different from a career? In this thought-provoking conversation, Steven Garber and Dru Johnson explore the deep disconnect between faith and everyday work, challenging the dualism that separates “spiritual” callings from ordinary life.

Garber argues that vocation is not reserved for clergy or religious roles but is integral to the mission of God. Drawing from biblical theology, church history, and lived experience, the discussion highlights how modern culture often reduces calling to career success, income, or personal fulfillment—leaving many disillusioned.

Together, they unpack the tension between vocation and occupation, the myth of “doing what you love,” and the overlooked dignity of ordinary work—from parenting to manual labor. The conversation also addresses the Protestant work ethic, the confusion between money and meaning, and why younger generations struggle with career pressure and purpose.

With insights shaped by L’Abri, Hebraic thought, and a lifelong exploration of what it means to be human, Garber offers a compelling vision: true vocation is about coherence—aligning who we are with how we live in the world.

This episode is essential listening for anyone wrestling with calling, work, and the search for a meaningful life.

Dr. Garber's books can be bought here:

https://www.ivpress.com/steven-garber

We are listener supported. Give to the cause here:

For more articles:

Social Links:

Chapters:

See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

In this thought-provoking episode, Dr. Leslie Baynes explores the complex relationship between C.S. Lewis and the Bible. While Lewis is widely celebrated for his theological insight and literary brilliance, Baynes’ research uncovers a more nuanced reality—one where Lewis occasionally misquotes scripture, relies heavily on memory, and even attributes statements to Jesus that do not appear in the Gospels.

Drawing from her book Between Interpretation and Imagination: C.S. Lewis and the Bible, Baynes examines both Lewis’s profound contributions and his interpretive missteps, including his famous “liar, lunatic, or Lord” argument. 

The episode also tackles the cultural phenomenon of “Saint Lewis,” particularly among American evangelicals, and the resistance to critically evaluating his work. Yet, rather than dismissing Lewis, Baynes advocates for a balanced perspective—appreciating his literary and spiritual impact while engaging his ideas with scholarly rigor.

This episode is essential listening for anyone interested in biblical interpretation, theology, and the enduring influence of one of Christianity’s most beloved thinkers.

We are listener supported. Give to the cause here:

For more articles:

Social Links:

Chapters:

See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

What does the Bible actually say about women in church leadership—and are we asking the wrong questions? In this episode, Dru Johnson sits down with biblical scholar Preston Sprinkle to explore the complex, often misunderstood topic of gender roles in Scripture. Drawing from his book From Genesis to Junia, Sprinkle shares his “exegetical journey,” a multi-year study that avoids predetermined conclusions and instead carefully examines key biblical texts.

Together, they challenge modern assumptions often imposed on Scripture, including Western ideas about equality, hierarchy, and leadership. The conversation highlights how women are portrayed throughout the Bible—from influential figures in the Old Testament to faithful disciples in the Gospels—and why these narratives matter for interpreting passages like 1 Timothy 2.

They also unpack how leadership functioned in the early church, revealing a more fluid and diverse structure than many assume today. Rather than offering simplistic answers, this episode invites listeners to wrestle with the full biblical witness, appreciate its complexity, and approach the conversation with humility, patience, and deeper study.

Whether you’re complementarian, egalitarian, or still exploring, this discussion offers fresh insight into one of the church’s most debated topics.

You can buy Dr. Preston Sprinkle's latest book here:

https://bakerbookhouse.com/products/9780830785803_from-genesis-to-junia?

We are listener supported. Give to the cause here:

For more articles:

Social Links:

Chapters:

See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

In this episode, former Bible publisher Paul Caminiti shares an insider look at the global Bible industry, revealing surprising truths about how Scripture is translated, marketed, and consumed. From his leadership role at Zondervan to overseeing millions of Bible sales annually, Caminiti uncovers the business dynamics behind modern Bible publishing—including why Bibles remain the bestselling book every year.

The conversation dives into the creation of the New International Version (NIV), exploring the complex, expensive process of translation and the ongoing scholarly debates between “word-for-word” and “thought-for-thought” approaches. Caminiti also recounts the intense “Bible wars,” where cultural, theological, and political pressures clashed over gender-inclusive language in Scripture.

Despite record-breaking sales—over 25 million Bibles sold annually in North America—Bible reading continues to decline. Caminiti explains why, pointing to fragmented reading habits, over-engineered study Bibles, and the unintended consequences of chapter and verse formatting.

Ultimately, this episode challenges listeners to rethink how they engage with Scripture, introducing a fresh approach that emphasizes immersive, communal reading over isolated study—offering a compelling vision for rediscovering the Bible’s original impact.

Buy the Immerse Bible here:

https://ourdailybreadpublishing.org/immerse-bible.html

We are listener supported. Give to the cause here:

For more articles:

Social Links:

Chapters:

See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

How should we understand Paul—as a rabbi, a philosopher, or something else entirely?

In this episode, Dr. Joseph Dodson explores Paul as a figure who operates within both Jewish and Greco-Roman intellectual worlds. Rather than forcing a choice between “rabbi” or “philosopher,” the discussion shows how Paul embodies elements of both. He is deeply trained in the Scriptures of Israel and interprets them with methods recognizable within Jewish tradition, yet he is also conversant with the philosophical categories and rhetorical practices of the wider Greco-Roman context.

This dual identity helps explain both the content and the form of Paul’s letters. His arguments are not abstract theological constructions detached from history, nor are they merely repetitions of inherited tradition. Instead, they represent a dynamic engagement with Scripture in conversation with the intellectual world of his day.

The episode highlights how modern readers often flatten Paul into one category or another, missing the richness of his thought. By recovering Paul as both rabbi and philosopher, we gain a clearer picture of how he communicates the significance of the Messiah to diverse audiences.

Ultimately, this approach invites us to read Paul with greater historical sensitivity and intellectual nuance.

For Joseph Dodson's latest book, buy it here:

https://bakerbookhouse.com/products/9798400500527_paul-the-rabbi-philosopher-stoic-and-jewish-philosophy-in-the-apostles-thought

We are listener supported. Give to the cause here:

For more articles:

Social Links:

Chapters:

00:00 Understanding Paul: Context is Key

See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

In this episode, Mike Tolliver and Dru Johnson reflect on the inaugural Bible First conference on politics, assessing both its successes and its limitations. Designed to “cut through the noise” of contemporary political commentary, the conference aimed to resource Christians with biblically grounded thinking rather than culturally inherited assumptions. 

The conversation highlights a central tension: while many speakers engaged important historical and theological insights, fewer fully embodied the “Bible First” methodology by tracing political concepts directly through Scripture. This revealed a broader challenge within the church—namely, the difficulty of grounding political theology in the narrative and legal frameworks of the Bible, especially the Torah.

Key takeaways include the importance of defining contested terms like “Christian nationalism,” the need to examine how cultural assumptions shape biblical interpretation, and the value of recovering categories such as nationhood, law, and kingship from within Scripture itself. The hosts also reflect on memorable contributions from the conference, including themes of dual citizenship in the kingdom of God and fresh biblical frameworks for understanding the nations.

Ultimately, the episode frames the conference as a successful first step—one that raised better questions, exposed gaps, and set the stage for more focused, Scripture-driven conversations in the future.

We are listener supported. Give to the cause here:

For more articles:

Social Links:

Chapters:

See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Is Iran truly an Islamic nation—or is that a misconception shaped by politics and media?

In this episode, Dru Johnson speaks with political scientist Dr. Farhad Rezaei, who offers an insider’s perspective on religion, culture, and power in modern Iran. Contrary to common assumptions, Rezaei explains that only a minority of Iranians actively identify as Muslim, with many describing themselves as secular, non-religious, or spiritually unaffiliated. 

At the same time, Iran is experiencing what Rezaei calls a “religious revolution”: a dramatic rise in Christian conversions, growing from just a few hundred in 1979 to millions today. This growth is occurring despite severe consequences, including imprisonment or even death for those who convert. As a result, many believers gather in secret “house churches,” where Bible study and worship continue underground.

The episode also explores how state enforcement of Islamic law has paradoxically contributed to widespread disillusionment. As Iranians became more familiar with official religious teachings, many concluded that they conflicted with their cultural identity and moral intuitions.

Rezaei also provides insight into the political realities of the Iranian regime, the treatment of religious minorities, and the broader geopolitical tensions shaping the region today.

Ultimately, this conversation challenges listeners to rethink simplistic narratives and better understand the complex religious landscape within Iran.

We are listener supported. Give to the cause here:

For more articles:

Social Links:

Chapters:

See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

What happened to the Ark of the Covenant—and why does it still capture the imagination of both scholars and the public?

In this episode, Dru Johnson speaks with archaeologist Dr. Chris McKinny about his documentary Legends of the Lost Ark and the enduring mystery surrounding Israel’s most sacred object. McKinny explains that while many assume the Ark was destroyed in the Babylonian invasion, the biblical text never explicitly says so—leaving open a range of historical and legendary possibilities.

The conversation explores why popular imagination is often shaped by pseudo-archaeology, conspiracy theories, and figures like Ron Wyatt, whose claims continue to influence public perception despite lacking credible evidence. McKinny distinguishes between serious archaeological inquiry and what he calls “religious pseudo-archaeology,” which often exploits faith for sensational claims.

At the same time, he argues that dismissing the Ark entirely misses something essential. In Scripture, the Ark is not just an artifact but the symbolic center of God’s presence—what he calls the “beating heart” of Israel’s story. Its disappearance after the First Temple period becomes a theological problem as much as a historical one.

Ultimately, this episode invites listeners to think more carefully about evidence, tradition, and the role of the supernatural in both ancient texts and modern faith.

For more on Legends of the Lost Ark, go here:

We are listener supported. Give to the cause here:

For more articles:

Social Links:

Chapters:

See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Why does Michael Polanyi matter—and why should Christians care?

In this episode, Dru Johnson and Mike Tolliver reflect on the Hebraic Thought Community’s recent book study of Personal Knowledge and explore why Polanyi’s work remains so influential. A chemist-turned-philosopher, Polanyi challenged the modern view of knowledge as detached, purely mental, and objective. Instead, he argued that all knowing is embodied, communal, and tradition-shaped.

Science, he insisted, is not merely the collection of neutral facts but a “social fabric” in which communities train people to see significance where others cannot. Learning to read an x-ray, for example, requires apprenticeship—participation in practices that shape perception itself.

Dru connects Polanyi’s insights to Scripture, showing how biblical knowing is inseparable from ritual, community, and action. Orthodoxy and orthopraxy are not rivals but entangled realities. You cannot truly see unless you practice. Whether in Proverbs’ call to “incline your ear,” Deuteronomy’s emphasis on communal instruction, or Jesus’ insistence that doing reveals truth, the Bible assumes that knowledge grows through embodied participation.

This conversation offers a powerful framework for understanding discipleship, evangelism, and spiritual formation—not as mere belief acquisition, but as formation within a living community of knowing.

If you are interested in the books mentioned in this episode, you can learn more here:

Personal Knowledge - https://press.uchicago.edu/ucp/books/book/chicago/P/bo19722848.html

A Little Manual For Knowing - https://wipfandstock.com/9781610977845/a-little-manual-for-knowing/

Longing to Know - https://bakerpublishinggroup.com/products/9781587430602_longing-to-know

Loving to Know - https://wipfandstock.com/9781608999286/loving-to-know/

We are listener supported. Give to the cause here:

For more articles:

Social Links:

Chapters:

00:00 Introduction to Michael Polanyi

See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.