What Can Christians Do and Will It Work?

In this episode of the Good Faith Podcast, Curtis Chang and David French name what's happening to American democracy right now: "Dual State America," where life feels normal—until the Trump administration's lawless prerogative power snaps into place. From the Renee Good case to Orwellian spin and rising political violence, they trace how authoritarianism spreads by redefining reality and daring ordinary people not to resist. French's gut-check: stop waiting for someone else to save the country—do something your grandkids will recognize as courage.

02:40 - What Is The "Dual State"?

06:25 - What Does The Renee Good Shooting Show Us?

11:03 - Potential For Resistance and Change

15:32 - The Dangers of Rotating Elected Authoritarians

20:03 - The "Gradually, Then Suddenly" Collapse

24:30 - What Can Individuals Do?

35:31 - The Risk and Uncertainty of Action

37:10 - Embracing Faithfulness Over Effectiveness

47:27 - Christians and The Integrity of Words

47:58 - What Sustains David French?

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Mentioned In This Episode:

• David French: An Old Theory Helps Explain What Happened to Renee Good
• Ernst Frenkel's The Dual State: A Contribution To The Theory Of Dictatorship (pdf)
• Ernst Frenkel's Legal Sabotage: Ernst Fraenkel in Hitler's Germany
• Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.'s Letters from a Birmingham Jail
• George Orwell's 1984
• Re-read the Declaration of Independence
• Read The Loosening of American Evangelicalism (article)

More From David French:

• David French's New York Times pieces HERE
• Follow David French on Threads

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The Good Faith Podcast is a production of a 501(c)(3) nonpartisan organization that does not engage in any political campaign activity to support or oppose any candidate for public office. Any views and opinions expressed by any guests on this program are solely those of the individuals and do not necessarily reflect the views or positions of Good Faith.

The Rise of the "Nones" and the Politics Driving People Out of Church

In this episode of the Good Faith Podcast, Ryan Burge joins Curtis Chang to explore The Vanishing Church and the decline of moderate American congregations, using hard data and his lived experience as a longtime pastor, political scientist, and statistician. Ryan and Curtis explore how evangelicals, mainline Protestants, Catholics, and the religious "nones" are changing—and what that means for polarization, social cohesion, and democracy in America. Burge offers a practical challenge for the lonely or spiritually curious—show up to church even if you don't believe—and makes a case for gratitude and community in an anxious age.

06:25 - Evangelicals: Political Shift and Homogeneity

13:59 - Mainline Protestants: Decline and Diversity

19:06 - Aging and Future of Mainline Churches

23:05 - American Catholics: Stability and Rightward Shift

28:31 - Priest Shortages and Cultural Challenges

30:36 - The Rise of the Nones

31:25 - Political Drivers of Religious Disaffiliation

40:17 - Polarization: Politics and Economics

47:54 - Addressing Polarization: Individual Responsibility

50:23 - Advice for Pastors: Preaching Beyond Politics

52:31 - Signs of Hope and Gratitude

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Mentioned In This Episode:

• Ryan Burge's The Vanishing Church: How the Hollowing Out of Moderate Congregations Is Hurting Democracy, Faith, and Us (Why the Culture Wars Led to Polarization and What We Can Do About It)
• Read Ephesians 3:10 (ESV)
• Read Colossians 1:16-18 (ESV)
• Danforth Center on Religion and Politics
• Ryan Burge, Michael Graham, and Jim Davis' The Great Dechurching: Who's Leaving, Why Are They Going, and What Will It Take to Bring Them Back?
• More about Dorothy Day

More from Ryan Burge:

• Substack: Graphs About Religion
• Follow Ryan on X (formerly Twitter): https://x.com/ryanburge
• More about Ryan Burge's work

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The Good Faith Podcast is a production of a 501(c)(3) nonpartisan organization that does not engage in any political campaign activity to support or oppose any candidate for public office. Any views and opinions expressed by any guests on this program are solely those of the individuals and do not necessarily reflect the views or positions of Good Faith.

Can Christian Americans Resist Authoritarian Drift?

Pete Wehner—The Atlantic columnist and former Reagan and Bush administration staff member—joins host Curtis Chang to ask the uncomfortable question: in Trump's America, is morality a loser that's been replaced by the "law of the jungle"—especially in U.S. foreign policy? From Venezuela to a looming Greenland/Denmark showdown that could fracture NATO, Wehner argues we're watching "might makes right" go mainstream. The antidote, he says, isn't vibes—it's resistance: stop living within the lie and start living within the truth.

00:04:23 - Explaining the U.S. Foreign Policy Shift

00:06:36 - What Is America's Moral Aspiration in Foreign Policy?

00:07:57 - Trump's "Will to Power" Ethic

00:11:34 - Do We Have Historical Amnesia?

00:16:36 - Contrasting Trump and PEPFAR

00:19:09 - The Disconnect Between Christian Identity and Policy

00:26:34 - Demagogues and Moral Erosion

00:34:19 - President Trump's Unique Amorality

00:37:10 - Primacy of Human Dignity and Christian Ethics

00:41:01 - Venezuela, Greenland, and Moral Implications

00:44:02 - The Value of Beauty and Creation

00:47:14 - What Are the Limits and Possibilities of Action

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Mentioned In This Episode:

• Pete Wehner's article Trump's Folly
• More about PEPFAR (President's Emergency Plan for AIDS Relief)
• Anne Applebaum's Twilight of Democracy: The Seductive Lure of Authoritarianism
• William Galston's Anger, Fear, Domination: Dark Passions and the Power of Political Speech
• Jeane Kirkpatrick's essay Dictatorships and Double Standards (Commentary)
• Václav Havel's The Power of the Powerless
• David Brooks' article America Needs a Mass Movement—Now Without one, America may sink into autocracy for decades (The Atlantic)
• C.S. Lewis' idea of active obedience is found in Mere Christianity
• Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn's "One Day in the Life of Ivan Denisovich"
• Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn's Nobel Prize Lecture (literature, 1970)

More from Pete Wehner:

• Pete Wehner's articles at The Atlantic
• Pete Wehner's opinion pieces at The New York Times

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The Good Faith Podcast is a production of a 501(c)(3) nonpartisan organization that does not engage in any political campaign activity to support or oppose any candidate for public office. Any views and opinions expressed by any guests on this program are solely those of the individuals and do not necessarily reflect the views or positions of Good Faith.

From Pews to Planet: Faith-Based Steps to Better Creation Stewardship

In this episode of the Good Faith Podcast, host Curtis Chang and guest Dr. Katherine Hayhoe—Chief Scientist at The Nature Conservancy and a committed evangelical Christian—explore why Christians and churches should care about climate change as a biblical "love your neighbor" issue rooted in justice for the poor and vulnerable. Hayhoe explains how political polarization and "solution aversion" fuel climate skepticism. She introduces the "Six Americas" framework and offers practical guidance for having hopeful, effective conversations that connect climate action to what people already care about. Dr. Hayhoe offers actionable next steps for individuals and congregations—like sharing solutions, starting church initiatives, and leading with hope instead of doom—so Christians can faithfully steward God's creation.

05:23 - Dr. Hayhoe's Faith Journey and Science

07:12 - Experiencing Creation's Vulnerability

09:17 - Is Climate Change a Justice Issue?

10:42 - Encountering Christian Climate Skepticism

18:06 - Christian Organizations and Climate Action

24:35 - Connecting Climate to Personal Values A

28:23 - Navigating Difficult Conversations

33:31 - What Are the "Six Americas" of Climate Attitudes?

43:02 - Scientific Evidence and Human Impact

48:15 - Focusing on Solutions, Not Just Science

50:03 - What Is One Action Step for the Unsure Christian?

53:00 - What Is One Action Step for the Committed Christian

55:00 - Are There Practical Church-Based Climate Actions?

Episode Companion:

Christians and Climate Change Guide 1

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Mentioned In This Episode:

Organizations and Networks

• A Rocha USA
• Evangelical Environmental Network
• Tearfund
• Compassion International
• World Vision
• Yale Program on Climate Change Communication

Websites, Tools, Books, and Newsletters

• Skeptical Science
• Global Weirding (Video podcast)
• Colby May's Energy For Purpose (ministry Energy Management)
• Mark Noll's The Scandal of the Evangelical Mind
• Dr. John Cook's Cranky Uncle vs. Climate Change: How to Understand and Respond to Climate Science Deniers
• Bill McKibben's website

Studies and Surveys

• National Academy of Sciences Survey Results (2023-2024)
• Belief in divine (versus human) control of earth affects perceived threat of climate change (npj)
• Pew Research: The pope is concerned about climate change. How do U.S. Catholics feel about it? (2023)
• The Yale Program on Climate Change Communication: Climate Change in the American Mind: Beliefs & Attitudes (2025)

More From Dr. Katharine Hayhoe:

• Katharine Hayhoe's Saving Us: A Climate Scientist's Case for Hope and Healing in a Divided World
• Katharine Hayhoe's Substack: Talking Climate
• Katharine Hayhoe's website
• Subscribe to Katharine Hayhoe's Newsletter

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The Good Faith Podcast is a production of a 501(c)(3) nonpartisan organization that does not engage in any political campaign activity to support or oppose any candidate for public office. Any views and opinions expressed by any guests on this program are solely those of the individuals and do not necessarily reflect the views or positions of Good Faith.

How Do We Shape Future Generations Well?

Nancy French returns to The Good Faith Podcast with host Curtis Chang for a heartfelt, funny, and surprisingly practical conversation about how grandparenting reshapes your view of hope, kids and screens, grief, and what's worth doing with the time you have—even is that just means "robbing a bank with a Barbie." This conversation isn't just for grandparents: it's for anyone mentoring, parenting, teaching, or influencing the next generation, with practical wisdom on choosing connection, naming loss honestly, and creating space for kids to grow "analog" and resilient. Nancy also explains why legacy and being remembered aren't the point—what matters is faithfully loving the people in front of you and passing on stability, courage, and hope that outlasts you.

02:05 - Why Did Nancy Choose a Year as Primary Caregiver To Her Grandpkids?

07:44 - No screens and the value of analog, imaginative play.

13:15 - Preserving Children's Natural Hope

14:26 - Navigating Difficult Topics with Children

17:14 - The Value of Letting Children Experience Loss

23:09 - Creativity and Storytelling with Grandchildren

25:51 - Introducing Real-World Conflicts in Play

29:19 - Grandparents as Links to Family Legacy

34:53 - George Eliot: The Value of Unremembered Acts

36:18 - Living with Cancer and Embracing the Present

42:30 - Grandparenting from a Distance

45:27 - Encouragement to Focus on fun, connection, and Presence Rather Than Legacy

Episode Companion: A Guide for Grandparents & All Those Influencing The Next Generation

Mentioned In This Episode:

• Demographic research: Grandchildren's spatial proximity to grandparents and intergenerational support in the United States
• Jennifer F. Cross, M.D.: Why screen time should be limited for kids
• The Child Mind Institute: The Power of Pretend Play for Children
• Chicago's Harold Washington Library
• Curtis Chang's The Anxiety Opportunity: How Worry Is the Doorway to Your Best Self
• Nancy French & Curtis Chang's The After Party: Toward Better Christian Politics
• Nancy French's Ghosted: An American Story
• George Eliot's Middlemarch (epubs)
• More about Secretary of State Cordell Hull

More From Nancy French:

• Nancy French's website
• Nancy French on instagram
• Nancy French on Threads

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The Good Faith Podcast is a production of a 501(c)(3) nonpartisan organization that does not engage in any political campaign activity to support or oppose any candidate for public office. Any views and opinions expressed by any guests on this program are solely those of the individuals and do not necessarily reflect the views or positions of Good Faith.

Can a Poetic Pause Help us Embrace the In-Between Moments of the Season?

On this special Christmas Day episode of the Good Faith Podcast, host Curtis Chang and singer-songwriter Sandra McCracken each explore the nativity, the "space between" Christ's first coming and second coming, and how Christian faith holds grief and joy together in a world that often "does not mesh with Jesus." Featuring Madeleine L'Engle's poem "First Coming" and music from McCracken's Christmas EP I Heard the Bells (including "The Space Between"), this episode invites listeners to slow down, notice the small things, and find God's nearness in waiting and quiet wonder.

(00:03:02) Christian Response to a Troubled World

(00:04:22) Madeleine L'Engle's "First Coming"

(00:08:35) Sandra McCracken's Christmas Reflections

(00:12:14) What Is Blessing the Space Between?

(00:12:47) Songwriting and the Sacred Space Between

(00:15:10) From Christmas to New Year's: Blessing the In-Between Times

(00:17:12) Nativity, Slowness, and the Nearness of God

(00:20:01) Curtis Chang's Closing Reflections

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Mentioned In This Episode:

• Madeleine L'Engle's The Ordering of Love
• Madeleine L'Engle's "First Coming"
• Luci Shaw's Accompanied by Angels: Poems of the Incarnation
• Sandra McCracken's Christmas EP I Heard the Bells
• Sandra McCracken's "The Space Between"

More From Sandra McCracken:

• Sandra McCracken's website
• Sandra's first Christmas album Sandra McCracken Christmas (2020)

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The Good Faith Podcast is a production of a 501(c)(3) nonpartisan organization that does not engage in any political campaign activity to support or oppose any candidate for public office. Any views and opinions expressed by any guests on this program are solely those of the individuals and do not necessarily reflect the views or positions of Good Faith.

From C.S. Lewis to Luka Dončić: Celebrating Joy in Unexpected Places

On this Christmas-season Good Faith episode, host Curtis Chang welcomes back "founding friend" David French to showcase how he can give thanks in all circumstances even amid a depressing news cycle. Through five surprising "gratitudes" (from Dune and Luka Dončić to family healing and C.S. Lewis), the conversation offers a timely guide to cultivating Christian joy, resilience, and hope in anxious times. French shares why his hope isn't rooted in a "five-point plan," but in the character of God and the "light and high beauty" that can break through dark moments—even illustrated by a powerful story of forgiveness after a Michigan church shooting.

(00:02:22) - Living with Tension: Blessings and Challenges

(00:05:11) - Practicing Cheerfulness and Gratitude

(00:08:52) - #5: Anticipating Dune Part Three & the importance of joy and fun.

(00:18:22) - #4: Luka Doncic & appreciating greatness

(00:26:50) - Transcendence, and the Need for Beauty in dark times.

(00:27:55) - #3: Michigan Mormons' Response to Tragedy

(00:29:22) - The Power of Redemptive Acts

(00:33:35) - #2: Gratitude for his wife & granddaughter's health after medical challenges.

(00:40:32) - #1: The Enduring Comfort of C.S. Lewis

(00:49:44) - The necessity of hope and joy, especially for young people.

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Mentioned In This Episode:

• Trailer: Dune Part Three
• Trailer: Dune Part One
• Trailer: Dune Part Two
• Highlights: Luka Doncic
• Read/Watch: Victims raise money for Michigan Church shooter's family

• Mere Christianity
• The Last Battle
• The Great Divorce
• The Screwtape Letters
• Space Trilogy
• Till We Have Faces

More From David French:

• David French's New York Times pieces HERE
• Follow David French on Threads

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The Good Faith Podcast is a production of a 501(c)(3) nonpartisan organization that does not engage in any political campaign activity to support or oppose any candidate for public office. Any views and opinions expressed by any guests on this program are solely those of the individuals and do not necessarily reflect the views or positions of Good Faith.

What Do Henry Wadsworth Longfellow and Johnny Cash Have in Common?

Singer-songwriter Sandra McCracken joins Good Faith for a short bonus episode on the Christmas songs that can hold joy and sorrow at the same time. Sandra explores the story behind "I Heard the Bells on Christmas Day"—from Henry Wadsworth Longfellow's grief to its enduring promise of peace in the midst of hardship. She also reflects on the influence of Johnny Cash's version and shares what it was like recording the song with Cindy Morgan. A warm, reflective listen for anyone heading into the season with hope and heaviness.

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Mentioned In This Episode:

• Sandra McCracken's Christmas EP I Heard the Bells on Christmas Day
• Sandra McCracken's single I Heard the Bells on Christmas Day
• Johnny Cash's The Christmas Spirit album
• Johnny Cash's single I Heard the Bells on Christmas Day
• Leonard Cohen's Anthem

More From Sandra McCracken:

• Sandra McCracken's website
• Sandra's first Christmas album Sandra McCracken Christmas (2020)

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The Good Faith Podcast is a production of a 501(c)(3) nonpartisan organization that does not engage in any political campaign activity to support or oppose any candidate for public office. Any views and opinions expressed by any guests on this program are solely those of the individuals and do not necessarily reflect the views or positions of Good Faith.

Can We Welcome the Stranger and Uphold the Law?

How should Christians think about immigration, the border crisis, and refugees—without getting trapped in partisan talking points? In this Good Faith podcast episode, host Curtis Chang sits down with Jennie Murray, president of the National Immigration Forum, to explore a faith-informed approach to U.S. immigration policy. They explore why the U.S. immigration system is so broken and confusing, the tension between compassion and the rule of law, how immigration affects jobs, labor shortages, and the economy, all while debunking myths about crime, fentanyl, and "open borders." (02:34) - Christian first or American first? Identity and immigration (06:01) - Compassion vs rule of law? (10:36) - How the immigration system is failing (14:09) - What really drives migration (18:21) - Labor, talent, and the U.S. economy (22:12) - Who counts as "illegal" or "undocumented"? (31:27) - Law, grace, and the gospel (37:34) - Crime, fentanyl, and fear-based narratives (48:03) - What ordinary Christians can do

Episode Guide for Personal and Group Study

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Mentioned In This Episode:

• TRAC: Immigration numbers and research
• Refugee resettlement ceilings and numbers caps: Migration Policy Institute
• A Turning Point for the Unauthorized Immigrant Population in the United States
• Gallup Polling: Surge in U.S. Concern About Immigration Has Abated
• Pew Research Research: Majority of Americans to say immigrants strengthen the U.S.
• Pew Research: U.S. Unauthorized Immigrant Total Dips to Lowest Level in a Decade
• Lifeway/World Relief Research Study: Evangelical Views on Immigration Study
• Pew Research: Support for Legal Status for Immigrants Illegally Ariving as Children
• Bill Summary: Dream Act of 2025
• CATO Institute: 72% Believe Immigrants Enter the U.S. for Jobs & to Improve Their Lives

Referenced Scripture:

• Leviticus 19:34 (ESV) - The foreigner residing among you
• Matthew 25:35-36 (ESV) - Treatment of the stranger

International Comparison Stories:

• Reuters, Nov 2022: Canada's immigration targets to fill workforce gaps/support economic growth
• DW News, June 2023: Germany aims to make it easier for non-nationals to work there
• The Guardian, April 2023): Australia targets skilled migrants to fill critical job vacancies
• BBC News, Dec 2023): "The UK government is responding to workforce shortages by expanding visa opportunities for foreign workers

More From Jennie Murray and National Immigration Forum:

• More about Jennie Murray
• Learn more about National Immigration Forum
• Engage with Resources from National Immigration Forum

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The Good Faith Podcast is a production of a 501(c)(3) nonpartisan organization that does not engage in any political campaign activity to support or oppose any candidate for public office. Any views and opinions expressed by any guests on this program are solely those of the individuals and do not necessarily reflect the views or positions of Good Faith.

Christianity Isn't a Nation and The Church Isn't a National Movement

Host Curtis Chang sits down with N.T. Wright to explore the explosive themes of Ephesians, including what the Bible really says about the mission of the church—not as a lifeboat escaping to heaven, but a "small working model of new creation"—a multiethnic, multicultural community that stands against the powers and principalities of our age through truth, unity, and love. Wright discusses the church's mission in a divided world, and the rise of Christian nationalism. They address modern challenges such as misunderstandings of spiritual warfare, the communal nature of the armor of God, why the "belt of truth" matters today, and how Ephesians calls the church to resist counterfeit visions of power.

(06:12) - Has NT Wright changed his mind about the Biblical truths?

(12:15) - What is Wright's "small working model of new creation"?

(16:15) - The new community of Jesus Christ

(22:51) - The problem of Christian nationalism

(28:16) - The Challenge of Christian Multiculturalism

(29:39) - The Church's Role in Spiritual Warfare

(36:56) - Is the Armor of God a communal thing?

(43:05) - The biblical view of men and women is not antiquated

(49:19) - A final word of encouragement from Ephesians

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Mentioned In This Episode:

• N.T. Wright's The Vision of Ephesians: The Task of the Church and the Glory of God
• N.T. Wright's forthcoming God's Homecoming: The Forgotten Promise of Future Renewal
• Lecture: How Paul Invented Christian Theology (N.T. Wright lecture)
• What are the Five Elements of Christian Nationalism?
• Learn more: Desmond Tutu and the triumph against Apartheid
• Watch: How Artistotle and the Greek philosophers influenced the idea of a soul (video)
• Read: How a Man Named Lesslie Changed the Way I Think

Scriptural Thoughts on Rest:

• Genesis 1-2 (ESV) - Male & female relationships and creation theology
• Ephesians 1:1-14 (ESV) - Revealing who Jesus is to the world
• Ephesians 2:10 (ESV) - Humankind's purpose
• Ephesians 6:10-20 (ESV) - The full armor of God
• 1 Corinthians 15:20-28 (ESV) -The guarantee of the resurrection
• Revelation 21-22 (ESV) - Vision of new creation

More From N.T. Wright:

• N.T. Wright Online
• N.T. Wright's Speaking engagements
• N.T. wright's books (Amazon)

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The Good Faith Podcast is a production of a 501(c)(3) nonpartisan organization that does not engage in any political campaign activity to support or oppose any candidate for public office. Any views and opinions expressed by any guests on this program are solely those of the individuals and do not necessarily reflect the views or positions of Good Faith.