Welcome to the brand new series on Discourse in Magic: Magicians and Margaritas! In this inaugural episode, host Jonah Babins sits down over a margarita with Mastermind member and stellar Australian magician, Cameron Leo.  Together, they pull back the curtain on Cameron’s massive business transformation. We unpack the exact trajectory that took Cameron from zero to $20K a year, and then explosive growth from $20K to over $150,000 a year doing magic full-time. If you want deep business insights, actionable scaling models, and real strategies you can steal for your own career, this episode is packed with invaluable nuggets.  Jonah also drops a major announcement regarding the future of the podcast and the community: Discourse in Magic is officially launching video content on YouTube! You can now watch full episodes (including this one) to see the action live, alongside exclusive strategy breakdowns to help you optimize your business systems.

In this solo episode, Jonah Babins reports back from the annual Mastermind Summit. Every year, Jonah takes the mastermind group to an epic, tropical destination to map out business growth, and this year they returned to a beautiful resort in Mexico. While the room tackled classic pillars like contracts, public shows, SEO, and cold email, one massive topic dominated the entire trip: Artificial Intelligence.

Jonah issues a direct warning to performers: it is 2026, and running a business without looking at AI is simply irresponsible. This isn’t about shoving technology down anyone’s throat; it’s about recognizing a unique window of opportunity to out-innovate your competition before your booking systems feel completely ancient.

Once upon a time, the magic business favored whoever could put in the most raw hours—sending the most emails or writing the most blog posts. Today, the tools are equalized, meaning the most creative system wins. Jonah contrasts a basic user who merely transcribes a sales call with a creative producer who uses AI to instantly sync with a CRM, generate automated follow-up sequences, pull dynamic client testimonials, and build custom pitch decks instantly. Just like a deck of cards, the tool remains the same, but the output depends entirely on the creativity of the performer.

The most easily replaced tasks are the repetitive admin jobs that most magicians procrastinate on anyway. AI excels at calendar management, draft sorting, data scraping, and contract refinement. By automating these friction points, you preserve your energy for the parts of the business that require true human relationship-building: the magic, the client interactions, and the live performances.

Don’t wait until it gets easier. Jonah’s ultimate challenge to the community is to spend at least one hour a week (ideally an hour a day) playing with these tools. The magicians who jump in now are the ones who will capture the market while everyone else waits on the sidelines.

In this special episode, Jonah Babins shares a “meaty” excerpt from his recent business lecture delivered to the Chicago Magic Round Table. Recorded while Jonah was in the midst of a residency at the Chicago Magic Lounge (654 Club), this session skips the tricks and goes straight to the systems that allow a performer to scale from a hobbyist to a high-earning professional.

Jonah breaks down the exact philosophy they use at the Toronto Magic Company. While the full lecture covers everything from t-shirts to thumb tips, this episode focuses on the “engine” of your business: how you handle leads, how you optimize your time, and when it’s finally time to ditch the spreadsheet for something more powerful.

The Chicago Residency: Jonah’s experience performing close-up in the legendary 654 Club and the unique energy of the Chicago magic scene.

Systems vs. Software: Why you shouldn’t buy a CRM until your current system is “breaking” from too much success.

The “Fast Talker” Philosophy: Why Jonah pushes the pace during business lectures and how to absorb high-level strategy without getting overwhelmed.

Lead Management: The transition from manual copy-pasting to automated forms and why efficiency is the ultimate competitive advantage.

AI in Magic: Why Claude has become an indispensable “coworker” for drafting copy, organizing ideas, and managing the backend of a magic brand.

Jonah discusses a common trap: magicians buying expensive software to solve problems they don’t have yet. He argues that you only need a system when you are getting so many leads that a simple spreadsheet is no longer manageable. Systems should be the solution to your growth, not a distraction from it.

The secret to the Toronto Magic Company’s success isn’t one big secret—it’s a thousand small optimizations. Jonah explains the importance of looking at every step of your booking process and asking, “How can this be 1% better?”

From using AI like Claude for business heavy-lifting to utilizing automation for client inquiries, Jonah highlights how modern tech allows a solo performer to operate with the professionalism of a much larger agency.

The Chicago Magic Lounge: A world-class venue and home to the Chicago Magic Round Table.

Claude: Jonah’s recommended AI tool for business efficiency.

Lecture Inquiries: If you want Jonah and Ben to bring this lecture (including the tricks!) to your club or convention, email [email protected].

Follow Jonah: Find tips and business advice on Instagram @discourseinmagic.

Ready to bring Jonah to your city? If you’re part of a magic club or convention and want to learn the full business and performance system, reach out via email. Whether it’s a digital deep dive or an in-person workshop, let’s get your magic business scaling.

This week, Discourse in Magic looks a little different. Instead of Jonah interviewing a guest, we’re sharing an episode where the tables were turned. Jonah recently sat down with Josh Norbido and Nick Kay—better known as The Magic Guys—on their popular Australian-based livestream and podcast.

The Magic Guys actually “robbed” Jonah of the FSM Award for top Magic Podcast this year, but there are no hard feelings here. Their show is famous for its high energy, active YouTube community, and hilarious banter, making this one of the most engaging “crossover” episodes yet. In this session, Josh and Nick grill Jonah on the inner workings of his business, his performance schedule, and his philosophy on growth.

Jonah dives deep into how the Toronto Magic Company operates. He explains the transition from being a solo performer to building a brand that clients trust, allowing him to book other magicians and take a management fee while ensuring the quality of the show remains high.

During the “grilling” session, Jonah shares one of his most important pieces of business advice: stop leading with budget. He argues that by focusing on the value and the specific needs of the event first, you position yourself as an expert rather than a commodity.

Jonah discusses his recent shift toward heavy Instagram content and his Magic Business Mastermind, where he helps performers scale from five figures to six figures and beyond.

Ready to stop asking about budgets and start closing bigger gigs? If you enjoyed this deep dive into the business side of magic, make sure to follow the newsletter for tips sent out three times a week.

In this episode, Jonah Babins breaks down a critical mistake magicians make when a lead finally lands in their inbox: treating the sales call like a logistics checklist. While knowing the venue and guest count is important, a truly professional sales call does something much deeper. Jonah explores how the right questions don’t just give you information—they prove your expertise and give you the exact language you need to close the gig.

Whether you’re performing at high-end weddings or corporate holiday parties, the strategy remains the same: stop asking about logistics and start asking about the experience. Jonah shares two specific “power questions” that shift the dynamic from being a vendor to being a consultant.

Jonah illustrates the power of high-level questioning through two common scenarios:

Ready to get more “Yes” answers and higher fees? If you want to stop winging your sales calls and start closing with confidence, join Jonah for the upcoming workshop. No cold calling, no strangers—just a system for when people inquire to work with you.

In this solo episode, Jonah Babins pulls back the curtain on the eight-month hiatus of Discourse in Magic. Since August 2025, the podcast feed has been quiet, leading many listeners to reach out and check-in. Today, Jonah is back to explain his disappearance, share a major business epiphany from his recent travels, and lay out the future of the show.

The truth is, Jonah hasn’t been resting; he’s been on a whirlwind journey across the globe. From Auckland to Melbourne, and Pennsylvania to Denver, Jonah has been physically traveling to visit members of his Magic Business Mastermind. He shares the “insane” rule he follows: when a magician has worked with him for 18 months, he flies out to see them on his own dime. This commitment, combined with a heavy November/December gigging season, made recording high-quality episodes nearly impossible—until now.

Jonah breaks down the major difference between Daily Output lead gen and Systematic lead gen:

Follow Jonah on Instagram: @discourseinmagic for daily tips and reels.

The Newsletter: Join the community to get deep-dive emails several times a week.

Recommended Reading: The 4-Hour Workweek (or any works) by Tim Ferriss.

See Jonah Live: performing at the Chicago Magic Lounge (654 Club) this March.

Ready to grow your magic business the “Easy Way”? If you want to scale your business from five to six figures without dancing on TikTok, DM Jonah the word “SCALE” on Instagram.

In this episode of Discourse in Magic, Jonah Babins dives into a powerful concept from his mastermind sessions: Weaponizing Your Show. The idea is simple—make your show book you more shows. Beyond just delivering a strong performance, Jonah shares five practical tactics to turn every gig into a referral engine, rebooking machine, and review generator. If you want your performances to create momentum in your business, this episode is packed with actionable advice you can implement right away.

Audiences rarely know whether magic is your hobby or your full-time career. Jonah explains how to weave subtle references into your script that signal where and who you perform for—whether it’s weddings, corporate events, or private parties. This small tweak sparks ideas in your audience about where else they could hire you.

Getting reviews can feel awkward—unless you make it part of your act. Jonah shares the exact joke he uses at every show that gets laughs while nudging audience members to leave five-star reviews. It’s a simple, repeatable way to boost your credibility without being pushy.

Your performance isn’t over when you step off stage. Jonah stresses the importance of staying behind to thank volunteers, mingle, and even do a bonus trick or two. Building connections in those moments can turn casual spectators into future bookers.

When someone asks for your card, don’t just hand it over—swap. Jonah breaks down how to use these interactions to capture leads, follow up, and move people into your sales funnel. It’s a small shift that ensures opportunities don’t slip away.

Even great magicians get forgotten if their brand isn’t sticky. Jonah explores the importance of simple names, clear visuals, and consistent branding to make sure you’re memorable long after the show is done. Because if they can’t remember your name, they can’t rebook you.

Toronto Magic Company

Weaponize Your Show Mastermind Session

Bill Herz (corporate magic insights)

David Gerard

Bill Malone

In this solo episode of Discourse in Magic, Jonah Babins shares his raw and honest reflections on FISM 2025. From mind-blowing performances to marathon-length competitions, Jonah walks through the highs and lows of the world’s biggest and most prestigious magic convention and competition. Whether you attended or are just curious about how FISM functions, this episode offers a candid inside look.

Jonah opens with praise for the best of the best—performers whose acts left audiences stunned. Standout mentions include Michael Bloke’s clever creativity, the astonishing coding mentalism of Mind to Mind, Billy’s inventive routine, Morton Christensen’s consistent excellence, and the shockingly fresh linking ring act by Juan Klos. But it was quick-change artist Leah Kyle who stole the show with a jaw-dropping act that received standing ovations and, in Jonah’s view, deserved the Grand Prix.

Despite the brilliance at the top, Jonah critiques the structure of FISM’s competition. With hours upon hours of performances—many of which don’t meet the bar—he argues for stricter qualification rounds to cut down the sheer volume. Watching 150+ acts over several days becomes grueling, and Jonah suggests FISM should focus on quality over quantity to make the experience more enjoyable and less exhausting.

From disappointing gala shows to overlooked online categories, Jonah points out organizational missteps. The new Online Magic Awards, though a great idea, felt like an afterthought—barely acknowledged during the ceremony and judged with outdated criteria. He also calls for a more thoughtful schedule, noting the chaos of overlapping events, midnight galas, and 9 a.m. lectures. And as for the judging? Let the crowd reactions count—because Leah Kyle not winning still feels like a snub.

Jamie traces his early days performing in holiday parks and on cruise ships, where he learned to love the stage and reject the grind of close-up gigs. His breakout moment came with I Magician, a tech-themed stage show that earned critical and commercial success in the UK and US. Jamie shares how learning from the financial and marketing failures of Houdini: The Musical helped him pivot to a more sustainable, scalable model for touring magic.

When the pandemic hit, Jamie didn’t wait. He transformed canceled plans into a new immersive magic experience called Illusionarium in Toronto—an ambitious, multi-room journey through the history of magic. Jamie reflects on the logistical chaos, creative breakthroughs, and the emotional impact of creating live work at a time when theaters were dark. Later, he reimagined the project as Magic Immersive in Chicago, which found its stride as a tightly run, high-energy spectacle.

Jamie talks about his current off-Broadway show Amaze, a deeply personal and theatrical production blending storytelling with illusion. Unlike the days of dance tracks and unexplained boxes, Amaze uses magic to serve the story and aims to leave audiences feeling something more than just fooled. He shares why illusions might be making a comeback and why today’s magicians need to lead with honesty, passion, and presence on stage.

Jamie Allan recommends Tom Crosbie as the next guest for Discourse in Magic.

Jonah sits down with viral magician Xavier Mortimer to trace an unlikely journey—from learning back‑and‑front palming out of a gas‑station booklet to topping “Best Family‑Friendly Show” lists on the Las Vegas Strip and amassing billions of social‑video views. Along the way they dig into creative misfires, the treadmill of nightly shows, and why rehearsing a TikTok illusion can cost $20 K.

Xavier’s origin story starts with a coincidence: his father picked up a sleight‑of‑hand booklet as a fuel‑pump freebie. Two weeks of rural vacation later, 15‑year‑old Xavier had mastered back‑ and front‑palming and was staging dorm‑room shows. Community magic clubs, antique‑store books and mail‑order tricks (that took days to arrive) filled the gap left by pre‑YouTube France. When a Paris producer spotted a 25‑minute mime‑magic set he’d built in a friend’s barn, she booked him into a Paris theatre—forcing him to create a full, story‑driven “Shadow Orchestra” show in just three months.

After three years and 10 shows a week in Michael Jackson ONE with Cirque du Soleil, Xavier traded security for his own 200‑seat Vegas residency. He quickly learned the hidden grind: schmoozing ticket brokers, delivering doughnuts to kiosk staff and covering ad, room‑rental and tax bills that swallowed profits. Creative course‑correction was constant—he tried to “Americanize” the material, then pivoted back toward the whimsical, word‑light style that first set him apart.

Cyril Takayama – the street‑magic pioneer whose blend of cinematic visuals and live reactions inspired Xavier. Jonah, Xavier can connect you.