Eric Schwartzman

This is an exclusive interview about public affairs strategy with 27-year retired United States Navy Rear Admiral TL McCreary, the former spokesperson for the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, and a former public officer in service to Army Gen. Hugh Shelton, Gen. Dick Myers and the former Counter-terrorism Counsel and president of Military.com about public affairs strategy during the Iraq War.

It's an in-depth conversation about the inner workings of crisis communications during the US incursion into Iraq, embedding journalists with military units, the biggest crisis communications mistake the US Military made during the Iraqi incursion, and how former US Armed Forces service members can apply their public affairs skills to the private sector workplace.  

01:43 -- How McCreary became an Admiral in the United States Navy and his experience as a Washington public affairs officer in the United States Military.

02:26 -- Why informing military commanders what's going on in the public sector is not just an issue of truth but trust and transparency, and why lawyers and public affairs officers are the two most crucial counselors to today's senior leadership.

03:32 -- The importance of explaining wartime stratcomm activities accurately to the public.

04:01 -- A recount of 9/11, precisely what happened when the hijacked plane hit the Pentagon, and what went through his mind that day.

05:04 -- Working in the National Command Center in the Pentagon with Vice Chairman Gen. Myers, SecDef Rumsfeld, and his spokesman Victoria Clarke after the plane hit the Pentagon.

06:02 -- The importance of good military training in preparing a public affairs officer to communicate effectively during a crisis. 06:38 -- Letting the American people know that the US Military is still functioning and operating during a crisis.

07:02 -- SecDef Rumsfeld's presentation to the press from the podium in the Pentagon.

07:43 -- The main difference between handling crisis communications during 9/11 versus other national emergencies was one of scope, which directly involved the United States Vice President, the US Secretary of State, the Secretary of Defense and the Joint Chiefs of Staff all discussing matters such as what to do if there were a second attack and whether or not to shoot down a plane with civilians aboard.

08:39 -- Using a separate, off-site press center to accommodate media during a major crisis and providing status updates to the public through Craig Quigley, Victoria Clarke's spokesperson at the Department of Defense, who ran the press center during 9/11.

09:36 -- The differences between 9/11 crisis communications and media relations during the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq.

10:06 -- Handling public affairs during the initial incursion into Iraq under a veil of secrecy. Devising the press plan, designed to embark pools of media without revealing our battle plans. And the use of embargoed information to communicate the scope of the incursion and the facts on the ground through the national and some international news media to the American people.

11:24 -- Dispatching journalists to aircraft carriers and other military staging areas to allow them to cover the Iraqi incursion, code-named Operation Iraqi Freedom, during its occurrence.

12:30 -- What it takes to be the Joint Chiefs of Staff chairman at the United States Department of Defense.

14:27 -- The use of independent journalists in the first Iraqi incursion and router out of all my queries roll in drafting. The rationale for embedding journalists as a strategy for countering Saddam Hussein's propaganda campaign through transparency.

16:19 -- How Gen. Myers's experience in Vietnam impacted his communications strategy during the Iraqi incursion and the importance of distinguishing military policy from political policy so people understand that the US Armed Forces are not responsible for the decision to go to war, which is made by elected US civilian leadership.

18:17 -- Dealing with security breaches from reporters like Geraldo Rivera's sand drawings that leaked US Military positions during the Iraqi campaign.

19:14 -- The single biggest mistake that the US Armed Forces made in from a communications standpoint during the incursion into Iraq.

20:03 -- How and why the US Armed Forces lost the ability to tell their story after the embedded journalist's program dissolved and journalists shifted their focus to other matters after the initial Military incursion was complete.

21: 23 -- Rear Adm. TL McCreary's top tips to United States Armed Forces service members approaching their discharge and transitioning to the civilian workplace.

Special Report: Essential Digital Skills [FREE Download]

Service Members are encouraged to download a free copy of the Digital Readiness Report, which lists the crisis management skills sought by corporate hiring managers in today's job market.

22:57 -- Why the US military public affairs community is better at crisis communications than most others.

22:42 -- Why the US military public affairs community understands mainstream and trade media relations.

24:53 -- The one area military public affairs officers are least knowledgeable in is Sarbanes-Oxley law and other regulations governing the communications of public companies, but they are generally quick studies.

26:19 -- Whether or not United States Armed Forces members are a better fit for transitioning to large organizations or small businesses.

27:19 -- Why former public affairs officers in the US Armed Forces are very self-sufficient and able to manage activities autonomously. 

Photo by Specna Arms on Unsplash

Handling PR crisis management for one of the biggest bank failures in US history with Former Washington Mutual Vice President of Internal Communications Karen Horn at the Public Relations Society of America's International Conference in San Diego. 

Prior to her position at WaMu, she was the senior director of employee commitment at Cisco.

Crisis Communications at Washington Mutual   

01:37 - A summary of why and how Washington Mutual became insolvent, the FDIC seizure, and the sale of the failed financial services firm to JP Morgan Chase for $1.7 billion. 

03:52 - What the sale of WaMu to Chase meant for homeowners who had financed their homes with a home loan from Washington Mutual.   

04:36 - What happened on Sept. 25, 2008, the day WaMu employees found out the FDIC had seized the bank, and the declaration of the sale to JP Morgan Chase came by way of their government relations team.   

06:23 - The government relations team's decision to communicate the declaration via telephone rather than email since the initial accounts were speculative.   

06:55 - Scripting the message to employees about the collapse and the FDIC seizure so that if a seizure did occur, WaMu could inform employees before the mainstream news media and the decision to distribute that communication via email.   

08:05 - Sequencing the distribution of the internal communication to employees with the company's external communications efforts to the news media, and how they distributed the press release strategically to control its disemmination.   

09:16 - The emotional reality of learning that the company you've been working for has gone belly up and that your pension and 401k are gone.   

10:58 - When do you turn your back on your employer's corporate reputation?  Do you go down defending the brand, or do you surrender to trying to save the memory of a sinking ship?

12:31 - WaMu's use of an internal leadership blog in their intranet, which was maintained by the bank's COO, to attract criticism and identify friction points within the bank.  

14:50 - Lessons learned and advice to financial services companies about integrating social media into a crisis management strategy.

16:10 - Using an external social media channel like a blog for investor relations, sustaining a conversation over the long haul, and ensuring the organization's reasons for blogging are realistic.   

18:32 - Is internal communications more important in the conversation age since we are migrating from a world where the organization's center was the mouthpiece to one where the organization's center informs its edges, and its edges inform the world?

19:56 -- The single biggest corporate communications lesson learned from handling corporate communications during the collapse of Washington Mutual.   

22:54 - How WaMu communicated with customer services representatives in the days leading up to the failure to motivate them to do their best to protect the bank's interests despite its precarious financial predicament.   

20:59 - End

Aligning PR agency strategy with boardroom objectives, unique risks around promoting public companies, and engaging in controversial conversations with Gary Goldhammer, vice president at Digital PR firm Edelman Digital, at the Public Relations Society of America International Conference in San Diego.   

Gary has been blogging for five years about the convergence of journalism, reputation, and digital marketing at Below the Fold.  

00:55 – Aligning digital marketing strategy with communications strategy by researching public opinions and creating a promotional strategy based on existing perceptions.  

01:45 – What objectives cannot and should not be attempted via digital reputation management?  What cannot be achieved?  

02:30 – What are the risks public companies should be aware of when they launch a digital communication strategy, and what sort of guardrails should be in place before brands launch a product marketing campaign?  

02:47 – Adverse event reporting and what pharmaceutical companies are required by the Food and Drug Administration to do if someone leaves a comment about an adverse reaction to one of their drugs on the manufacturer’s Facebook page.  

03:25 – The duty to report the adverse effects of drug therapy extends beyond those pharmaceutical companies that maintain a social media presence.  It may still be liable if a company listens and engages in any other social media channel.  

03:50 – Recent SEC Guidance on the Use of Company Websites to Satisfy Regulation Fair Disclosure and the notion that nonselective disclosure for public companies using social media translates into nonselective engagement.  

05:41 – How a social media footprint impacts a public company’s duty to update, and whether or not hosting a corporate website on a third-party service is any safer than hosting the blog at your own domain.  

07:11 – The duty to update as a strategic communications imperative rather than a legal factor, and the idea of looking at social media engagement as an ongoing conversation rather than a one-time campaign.  

08:03 – How to decide what social media channels suit your organization based on where an organization’s most desirable community members interact online and building strategies around inputs instead of outputs.   

09:58 – The risks of segmenting communications by social media channel, saying one thing on Twitter and something else on Facebook, and treating social media as a broadcast versus an engagement channel.  

12:05 – Does dealing with controversy about a company exclusively on their Facebook page instead of at your corporate domain protect the organization from tipping off those disengaged from social media about the controversy?  

13:57 -- The web has not always been social, but has all media become social?  Discussing the Motrin Moms case study as an example of media that wasn’t intended to be social and how it provoked an adverse reaction via social media.  

15:01 – Why using social media as a mass media channel is ineffective and testing pilot projects internally to establish a comfort level inside the organizations before launching initiatives in these channels externally.  

18:29 – The 2009 Edelman Trust Barometer rankings, which listed financial analysts and business magazines as the most trusted sources of company information, David Carr’s recent article about the state of the business magazine category, and whether or not business magazines will retain that level of trust on the 2010 Edelman Trust Barometer, which at the time of release of this podcast was not yet available.  David Carr has appeared as a guest on this podcast before,  and his keynote speech at the Digital Impact Conference was also podcast.  

19:07 – The future of conventional journalism and the importance of niche and local news agencies.  

20:59 – End    

Photo by JESHOOTS.COM on Unsplash

Public Relations Society of America CEO Michael Cherenson on the results of the General Assembly for Delegates and Leadership and APR Accreditation at the 2009 PRSA International Conference in San Diego.  

Public Relations Society of American Assembly Update

01:21 – Steve Lubetkin asks via Twitter, “What is PRSA going to do to persuade members to seek APR accreditation?  Steve Lubetkin owns the firm in New Jersey Lubetkin Communications, which produces podcasts for clients.  

04:55 – What makes the APR accreditation relevant with communications migrating online and the rise of social media?  

06:20 – Fran Stephenson, director of corporate communications at Rackspace asks via Twitter, “How will the board regroup after yesterday’s disappointing assembly results?”  Fran Stephenson also appeared in a panel at the conference with Kami Watson Huyse, Matthew Henry, and Jason Avant on Building Relationships with the Digerati.  

08:05 – On her Kicking Sand Blog, Nicole Jordan asks, “What do PR professionals think needs to be done to fundamentally change the way PR is perceived and practiced?”  Nicole Jordan covered the conference for Webmaster Radio.  Her audio coverage can be found at the Voices of PRSA Podcast Center.  

11:01 – Is the definition of public relations too narrow to accurately describe where the business is headed?  

13:28 – End

Handling public affairs at the detainment facility operated by the Joint Task Force at GTMO “Gitmo,” the efforts of the Office of the US Secretary of Defense in establishing an umbrella social media policy and whether the US Dept. of Defense will publish data sets at www.data.gov, featuring Guantanamo Public Affairs Chief, US Navy Lieutenant Commander Brook DeWalt, APR and 2009 Public Relations Society of America International Conference Honorary Co-Chair.   

Guantanamo Bay Public Affairs Insights

01:12 – Brook talks about his role as the liaison between US Armed Forces public affairs and the Public Relations Society of America as the honorary PRSA International Conference Co-Chair.  

03:18 – The controversy surrounding the detention camp at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, preparations to close the facility by Presidential Executive Order on Jan. 22, 2010, and the mission of the joint task.  

07:51 – Accommodating media at Guantanamo, who visit almost weekly to observe the conditions of the facility and the treatment of the detainees.  

10:27 – Managing public affairs, maintaining transparency, and providing access to information about the facility, the detainees, and the personnel who serve there.  

13:19 – Lt. Commander DeWalt responds to former Asst. Secretary of Defense Robert Hastings’s claim that Brook DeWalt was the brainchild behind the Department of Defense’s entrée into social media communications in his former role as Director of New Media for the US Department of Defense, and the Lieutenant Commander’s response that he was part of the team with retired US Navy Captain Roxie Merritt, who is currently the director of community relations for the Office of the Secretary of Defense and Jack Holt and others.  

15:30 – The Department of Defense Bloggers Roundtable program, which DeWalt’s team launched, and other activities, including working with the Pentagon Channel and www.defense.gov.  

17:13 – A discussion of the umbrella social media policy, as discussed recently in the news media, developed by the Office of the Secretary of Defense and the Offices within Joint Staff and an acknowledgment that technology is always in advance of policy.  

19:29 – Whether the lack of social media policy is a benefit or a detriment to implementing social media communications within the U.S. Department of Defense and the importance of having policy moving forward.  

21:31 – How public affairs within the US Armed Forces has changed in the age of the digital natives.  

22:20 – The unique demands of serving in a public affairs capacity with digital immigrants instead of digital natives.  

23:40 – Applying the standards of responsible communications, which in the US Armed Forces means “staying in your lane,” to the business of social media communications.  

26:10 – The absence of data provided by the US Dept. of Defense to www.data.gov, particularly given Joint Chiefs Chairman Admiral Mike Mullen’s speech at the 91st Annual American Legion Convention, in which he said that since the US presence in Afghanistan, 8 million children are in school, 2.4 million of which are girls, up from 800,000 prior to the US incursion. 

Couple this with the fact that the Citizen’s Briefing Book presented to President Obama said that in the area of Homeland Security, 38,250 people say that they do not support “wars on abstract concepts,” making it the number one issue in this area as far as the public is concerned. 

Whether or not the US Dept. of Defense will start providing more data about the impact of their efforts and which government agencies should be responsible for making that data available. (NOTE: As of Dec. 10, 2009, DoD currently offers six raw data sets at www.data.gov.)  

29:54 -- End

How to become a Public Relations Society of America board member inside Public Relations Society of America's prestigious College of Fellows and judging the Public Relations Society of America Silver Anvil Awards with Public Relations Society of America Chair-Elect Gary D. McCormick, APR, Fellow Public Relations Society of America and Director, Partnership Development at HGTV, Scripps Networks at the 2009 Public Relations Society of America International Conference.

Public Relations Society of America Insights

02:14 - What it takes to be inducted into the prestigious Public Relations Society of America College of Fellows.

03:52 - What goes into vetting and recognizing a new Public Relations Society of America Fellow.

05:04 - What does it take to rise to the top of a member-based organization like the Public Relations Society of America?

06:28 - What is the value of being active in the Public Relations Society of America?

What do you get from being a member?

08:26 - What's the benefit of judging the Public Relations Society of America Bronze Anvil and Public Relations Society of America Silver Anvil Awards?

10:03 - What does it take to earn a seat on the board of directors and be elected the chair?

13:05 - How does the Public Relations Society of America control the quality of the professional development programs at the chapter level against those at the national level?

16:09 - What is the Public Relations Society of America's biggest challenge moving forward?

17:40 - End

Public relations, social media marketing, the impact of social media on intellectual development, and what's next with public relations firm leader, author and social media professional Deirdre Breakenridge recorded at the Public Relations Society of America's International Conference in San Diego.

01:17 - Deirdre discusses the controversy surrounding her most recent book with Brian Solis Putting the Public Back in Public Relations, which she and her co-author Brian Solis discussed with Neville Hobson and Shel Holtz on the For Immediate Release PR podcast.

02:34 - Deirdre discusses her other books, personal brand, listening, and social media marketing.

04:48 - The cost of her experience as an online influencer, and balancing the time one spends using social networks against parenting.

05:49 - Being a committed mother and making a conscious effort to spend time off email, Twitter, Facebook, YouTube, and Linkedin to rejuvenate.

07:44 - The impact of social media engagement on intellectual development and the potential drawbacks of living in a constant state of partial attention.

08:59 - How ready are public relations firms to inherit the social media communications mantle, engage with bloggers, and leverage emerging online channels?

10:18 - Does it make sense for public relations agencies to lead in social media engagement at most organizations, or should social media be the domain of marketers?

12:08 - Should public relations firms oversee social media governance inside the organization, and is social media a horizontal business function?

13:32 - Deirdre discusses a panel of social media specialists she assembled for the 2009 Public Relations Society of America International Conference, including Joe Jaffe, Ariel Hyatt, Kami Huyse, and Brian Solis.

14:30 - Now that many organizations have Twitter accounts, Facebook pages, YouTube channels, and Instagram feeds, what's next?

Looking ahead at conversation monitoring versus conversation mining, real-time collaboration, and the power shift from brands to communities.

16:25 - How will younger generations regard social media and online community technology?

Will they grow up with an inherent understanding of effectively applying these channels?

17:51 - What kind of information should public relations firms seek to pull out of the mountains of online data being created that is relevant to their business category?

18:43 - End

Public Affairs at the Pentagon War Court during Khalid Sheikh Mohammed’s 9/11 confession with former Pentagon War Court Spokesperson Ann Peru Knabe. 

Knabe is currently an active Air Force Reservist and teaches public relations at the University of Wisconsin.

Wartime Public Affairs Insights 

01:21 – Gary Goldhammer asks what kind of food the detainees at Guantanamo are served.  

01:56 – Comparison of the food quality at the McDonald’s in Guantanamo Bay versus the McDonald’s off of Red Square in Beijing and the PR101 of media relations.  

03:30 – Handling public relations for the US Armed Forces during Operation Iraqi Freedom.  

04:28 –How Joint Chiefs Chairman Admiral Mike Mullen’s assertion that the war in Afghanistan is a war for the “trust and confidence” Afghani people translates tactically into a day in the life of US Armed Forces public affairs officer, internal communications as a catalyst for external communications and handling international media relations.  

06:56 – The challenge of dealing with journalists who try to get the US Armed Forces to take a position on whether a war is right or wrong since the decision to go to war is never made by the US Armed Forces, but rather by the President of the United States of America.  

08:19 – In the conversation age, how do US Armed Forces staffers “stay in their lane” and participate simultaneously?  

08:52 – Participating in social media without compromising operational security.  

10:06 – How does the slogan “Every service member a spokesperson” translate tactically with respect to social media engagement for the US Armed Forces?  

10:47 – Social media governance for active US Air Force reservists who lead civilian and military lives.  

11:38 – U.S. Air Force community building effort on Facebook.  

11:57 – The location and organization of the Pentagon War Court and whether or not the Constitution and the Bill of Rights govern it.  

13:41 – Her experience handling public affairs at the Pentagon War Court when Khalid Sheik Muhammad confessed that he – and two other detainees – masterminded the 9/11 terrorist attacks in a hearing covered by 50 journalists and family members of those killed in those events.  

15:27 – The importance of due process, that everyone is innocent until proven guilty, and that even alleged terrorists are entitled to the same protections as anyone accused of a crime.  

15:54 – Major Danny Chung, United States Marine Corps, asserts that the US Armed Forces fights for the freedom and liberty of the American people to express their opinions. Marine Corps Captain Matthew Hoh’s resignation is a testament to that fact.

6:56 – The notion among civil liberty activists that U.S. legal matters should be prosecuted by the Dept. of Justice in the U.S. Courts and that the Pentagon War Court is unconstitutional.  

18:16 – The facts behind the Pentagon War Court and how it compares to the US Courts and links where people can research those comparisons in detail:

20:01 – Getting Cuban cigars in Guantanamo.  

20:37 – The war in Afghanistan, improvised explosive devices, and whether or not the US can win an armed conflict.  

23:05 -- End

Public Relations in Mexico involves overcoming false stereotypes, the impact of the illegal drug trade on Mexican tourism, and pitching journalists in a corrupt climate.

Marco Herrera, president of the Grupo Public PR Firms in Mexico City, explains how public relations agencies operate in Mexico City.

Public Relations in Mexico

00:58 – Public relations agencies in Mexico City, the types of clients Mexican PR firms serve, the number of the PR firms competing for accounts and the number of Mexican citizens employed at public relations firms, according to the Mexican Public Relations Association.  

02:57 – Grupo Public’s client base includes Harley Davidson, MCI, Palm, the World Economic Forum, local organizations, and the firm's portfolio of integrated marketing communications services.  

03:43 – How government relations between the US and Mexico affect his PR firm’s ability to promote an American brand like Harley Davidson within Mexico, and whether unpopular US foreign policy can negatively impact an American brand’s corporate reputation in Mexico.  

06:48 – Whether Mexican PR Firms see Mexican expats living in the US as online influencers, and try to relay their messages through them to promote brands to Mexican nationals.  

07:35 – Efforts of multinationals on marketing and product launches to Latinos living in the US, the evolving culture of public relations agencies focused on serving the Latin American market.  

08:32 – False stereotypes in the US news media about Mexican immigrants and Mexican citizens.  

10:09 – How false stereotypes impact Grupo Public’s ability to provide public relations services to US companies, lack of international cultural awareness among US citizens, and the perception that Mexico is no more developed than Africa.  

12:34 – News media reports of excessive violence by the illegal drug trafficking trade on Mexican tourism and why the rule “if it bleeds, it leads” has taken a heftier toll on PR agency revenues than warranted, according to Herrera.  

13:45 – Pushing the Mexican Government to use public relations to be more transparent as a way of counterbalancing all the illegal drug trade news with positive news, so people hear not just bad news about what’s happening in Mexico but the good news.  

14:48 – Practicing media relations in Mexico, pay for play, and whether or not corruption in the news media is a factor in scoring press coverage.  

18:27 – The Mexican Government’s President of Deputy Chambers recently decided to cease newspaper subsidies.  

19:02 – Best places to travel to in Mexico City, the hot new neighborhood to stay in, and the best Argentinean BBQs.

2:07 -- End

Live entertainment public relations for concerts and arena shows, the impact of the digital revolution on ticket sales, and tips on beating the scalpers to good seats with Andy Perez, former West Coast public relations chief for Feld Entertainment, producers of Ringling Brothers and Barnum & Bailey Circus, Disney on Ice, Disney Live and Supercross.   

Before that, he managed the Feld Entertainment account at the Miller Pear Public Relations Agency in Chicago.  He works as an independent public relations practitioner, handling PR or Star Wars in Concert and others.  

Insights on Public Relations for Arena Shows

01:24 – Using integrated communications campaigns to get butts in seats for arena shows, concerts, the circus, and other live entertainment events in a down economy, branding, the precarious shift from a business where the majority of ticket sales were made in advance to one where most ticket sales are now walk-up, and adjusting public relations campaigns to drive ticket sales during, instead before, the local dates.  

03:54 – Defining a live show for marketing, public relations, and advertising and the most common errors live entertainment producers make when purchasing ad time to promote touring arena productions.  

05:57 – Competing for the attention of a value-oriented, family audience, the biggest challenge associated with launching a new live show of any kind is Star Wars in Concert, an arena show that debuted earlier this year in Anaheim.  

07:36 – Planning and organizing pre-publicity opportunities to promote live arena touring shows and what live entertainment producers and promoters compete against when launching new tours.  

09:54 – P.T. Barnum as a public relations pioneer, the Ringling Brothers circus parade as a built-in PR stunt, and working with local agencies like the police force to get the word out that the circus is in town.  

12:38 – Creating advanced ground tours to raise awareness and generate word-of-mouth before a run in any given city.  

13:21 – Zing Zang Zoom’s publicity junket at the Magic Castle, at which mainstream media and mom bloggers interviewed the show’s zingmaster Alex Ramon, the show’s director Shanda Sawyer, and illusionist Jim Steinmeyer.  Schwartzman & Associates was the PR Agency for this production.

16:21 – How a blogger relations campaign used promo codes and special offers to sell 10,000 tickets online.  

18:41 – Focusing a blogger relations campaign geographically, so that local blog coverage drives local ticket sales.  

20:23 – The unique challenges of selling tickets to live family entertainment events on the West Coast of the US versus the Midwest or East Coast, and the second biggest competitor that promoters of large-scale arena performances face.  

23:03 – The impact of the digital revolution on the category of live entertainment is based on the mounting success of agent Tony Selznick of McDonald Selznick Associates, which represents stage directors, choreographers, and dancers.  

23:40 – Is live entertainment impervious to being undercut by the Internet?  

24:10 – Xanadu’s online Tony Award PR campaign used a fictitious press agent to create word-of-mouth on the Net.  

25:23 – Why do live entertainment producers have no photo policies when photos taken and shared by audience members increase awareness that that show is in town?  

27:03 – How live entertainment marketers can use YouTube to collect third-party consumer endorsements.  

28:26 – The advantages and disadvantages of working with Ticketmaster, which LiveNation and online ticket sales versus phone ticket sales are currently acquiring.  

31:51 – Does StubHub present a considerable challenge to Ticketmaster/LiveNation?  

33:15 – Why and how search engine optimization has created an opportunity for ticket scalpers to exacerbate the wedge between live entertainment producers and their ticket-buying public.  

35:55 – How to beat the scalpers at their own game and get the best seats at any live entertainment event.  

38:28 – Buying tickets online versus via phone and adjusting your ticket buying strategy to the size of the venue where the live entertainment show will run.  

40:55 – End