Escape 9 to 5

Giulio Michelon hosts Cosa Sposta, a podcast and newsletter interviewing Italian tech founders. For ten years he ran Belka, the product and UX consultancy he co-founded with university friends. Then, after Belka’s biggest client left and he started doubting himself as an entrepreneur, he began recording the conversations he’d been having privately. Today he’s given himself 16 months to find out whether that side project can become his full-time work.

We met at IP3 in Victoria, and this felt like a catch-up between two podcasters. We talk about choosing computer science by accident, being the only student out of 160 to apply for Silicon Valley, the Trenitalia article that brought Belka its longest client, the signs that told him Cosa Sposta was working, and how a curious person decides what to stick with.

**FIND GIULIO** (from ChatGPT draft, click every link before publishing)- YouTube (Cosa Sposta): https://www.youtube.com/@GiulioMichelon- Cosa Sposta writing and newsletter: https://cosasposta.substack.com/- Listen to Cosa Sposta: https://open.spotify.com/show/1G9FJWKDKKP5NbR91tjS3R- Giulio on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/giuliomichelon/- His own account of leaving Belka and the 16-month experiment: https://cosasposta.substack.com/p/grazie-di-tutto-belka- Belka: https://belkadigital.com/**MENTIONED IN THE CONVERSATION**- Giulio's original Trenitalia app redesign article (2018): https://medium.com/life-in-belka/3-modifiche-di-ux-per-migliorare-lapp-di-trenitalia-5343ac1ed04b- Belka's Fatture in Cloud case study: https://belkadigital.com/fatture-in-cloud- Cosa Sposta conversation with Gian Segato: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LozjN4g_xy4- *Tiny Experiments* by Anne-Laure Le Cunff: https://nesslabs.com/book- *Kitchen Confidential* by Anthony Bourdain: https://www.bloomsbury.com/uk/kitchen-confidential-9781408845042/**ABOUT ESCAPE 9 TO 5**- Show and other episodes: https://www.dayzeroproduction.com/escape-9-to-5- Listen on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/2DOHX3DL1JQKMQt3jx3CJS📍 ABOUT MEHi, I’m Lydia — an ex-banker turned climate-finance entrepreneur and creator.I make videos about practical AI workflows, creator experiments, meaningful work, travel, and building a life with more agency.Increasingly, I’m interested in one question:How do we use better tools without letting the tools run our lives?🧰 TOOLS I USERiverside — podcast recordinghttps://riverside.sjv.io/N9O5NVCapCut Pro — editinghttps://www.capcut.com/capcut_pc_web/fission_receive?code=4kGM2e23925838&lng=enEpidemic Sound — musichttps://www.epidemicsound.com/campaign/invite-a-creator/?_us=Referral&_usx=0glnzs&utm_source=ref_program&utm_medium=affiliate&utm_campaign=0glnzsSome links are affiliate links, which means I may earn a commission at no extra cost to you.🎙 EXPLORE MOREEscape 9 to 5 Podcasthttps://www.youtube.com/@LydiaCLinzi/podcastsBuild Your Personal AI Assistanthttps://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLTADNvjCW8e0PMQ2vAfY7tiVoUSNZ8p7I💌 STAY CONNECTEDSunday Not Bluehttps://www.lydia-c-linzi.kit.com/Instagramhttps://www.instagram.com/lydiachenlinzi© 2026 Lydia C. Linzi

I met Santiago Lefebvre because I lost my badge at London Climate Action Week. He was the one holding it.

Santiago is the Founder & CEO of ChangeNOW, the Paris-based global summit and ecosystem bringing entrepreneurs, investors, businesses and policymakers together around solutions for the planet.

But before ChangeNOW, he was already earning more than his parents as a banking intern. He later left finance, built a startup that didn't work out as he'd hoped, and went to INSEAD for an MBA.

Then, while looking for his next job, he pitched an idea he'd been developing for months. The business angel's response? "I don't know if you're crazy or a genius, but you need to do that."

That idea became ChangeNOW. Three months before its first edition, people from 80 countries were expected in Paris, and the team still had no funding.

We talk about money as the first scoreboard, knowing when to quit, finding your first believers, starting before you have proof, and why Santiago believes climate is moving from a moral argument to a strategic priority.

And towards the end, we come back to something surprisingly simple: what actually makes a good life?

About Santiago

Santiago Lefebvre is Founder & CEO of ChangeNOW.ChangeNOW: https://www.changenow.world/

About Escape 9 to 5

Conversations with people who have stepped beyond conventional career paths to build lives and work that feel meaningful to them.Hosted by Lydia Chen.#Escape9to5 #ChangeNOW #Entrepreneurship

Full archive

https://www.dayzeroproduction.com/escape-9-to-5

What happens when a life that looked right suddenly disappears?

Alexandra Simon had already quit what had once been a dream job and was preparing to move to Mexico when her relationship ended the day before the move. Suddenly she had no fixed home, no clear next step and, in her words, felt like “a balloon without a string.”

She took the sabbatical anyway.

That decision became the beginning of a much bigger experiment. Alex spent the next year exploring emotional education, group work, mindfulness and community, eventually turning what she had learned into a course at Yale. When people kept asking where they could learn the same skills outside the university, she tried something deliberately scrappy: a one-month public experiment in New York. It sold out, people kept asking for more, and that experiment became Lifeshop.

In this episode of Escape 9 to 5, we talk about Alex’s path from Yale and Bain to public-service work, emotional education and entrepreneurship; the swimming-pool-to-ocean metaphor that changed how she understood career choice; the letter she wrote to her future self so she wouldn’t get swept up by someone else’s definition of success; and why she now treats energy as data.

We also get practical about what it means to prototype a life instead of trying to think your way into certainty: talking to people, shadowing, testing, noticing patterns and course-correcting. And Alex is equally candid about the less romantic side of meaningful work — the period when she was working all day, teaching every night and felt she was losing some of the soul while doing “work of the soul.”

Her longer-term vision is bigger than workshops: a physical place for learning and human connection where people don’t have to “work on themselves by themselves.”

Find Alexandra + Lifeshop

Website: https://www.lifeshopny.com/

Instagram: @lifeshopny

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/lifeshopny

🎙️ *Escape 9 to 5* is a long-form conversation series about people leaving, reshaping and questioning conventional career paths, and building lives that fit them better.

There are choices I’ve made that still scare me: saying no to the sensible thing, walking away from something that used to fit, choosing a version of myself I can’t fully see yet.

Ify Walker gave me language for those moments: each one can be a vote for yourself.

Somewhere along the way, without really realizing it, I think I’ve been casting those votes too. Saying no to things, people, events and choices that no longer serve me. Trusting my own judgment a little more each time. Slowly becoming someone my eight-year-old self would probably look at with amazement.

That doesn’t mean the choices become easy. Life is still uncertain. Every decision still comes with doubt, and none of us gets to control what happens next.

But there is something powerful about knowing: I chose this. I voted for myself.

That is what stayed with me after this conversation with Ify.

Ify Walker is the founder and CEO of Offor. Her path has moved through teaching, law, fundraising and entrepreneurship, including raising roughly $40 million at Teach For America before building Offor.

We talk about her first career rebellion, why “a no isn’t fatal,” the danger of chasing approval until it becomes self-abandonment, what she calls the work twisties, rebuilding trust in your own judgment, and what happens when even meaningful work you chose for yourself starts asking you to change again.

And we laughed. A lot.

This ended up being exactly the kind of Escape 9 to 5 conversation I hoped this show could hold: relaxed, honest, occasionally ridiculous, and somehow leaving me with a little more strength to keep going.

If you’re standing in front of a choice you can’t completely control, maybe the question isn’t whether you can guarantee the outcome.

Maybe it’s simply: what would it look like to cast one more vote for yourself?

🎙️ Escape 9 to 5 is a long-form conversation series about people leaving, reshaping and questioning conventional career paths, and building lives that fit them better.

💌 Stay ConnectedThe First 60 Dayshttps://lydiaclinzi.substack.com/Sunday Not Bluehttps://www.lydia-c-linzi.kit.com/Instagramhttps://www.instagram.com/lydiachenlinzi☕ If something here made you think, smile, or breathe a little deeper:https://lydia-c-linzi.kit.com/products/buy-me-a-not-so-blue-brew© 2026 Lydia C. Linzi

I used to think escaping the 9–5 happened in one brave moment.

You quit. You leap. You start a completely different life.

After 36 conversations with founders, authors, creators, and people who stepped away from the default path, I no longer think that is how it usually happens.

Most people build a bridge long before they quit.

A bridge made from private clues, tiny experiments, uncomfortable asks, money fears, and enough small proof to trust themselves with the next step.

This is a special solo episode of Escape 9 to 5, looking back at what the first 36 conversations changed for me.

I share five lessons:

1. The escape starts before you quit.

2. Proof matters more than confidence.

3. Money fear does not magically disappear.

4. Sometimes you have to ask anyway.

5. There is no arrival. Freedom means choosing the pressure you are willing to live with.

The episode includes moments and ideas from conversations with Anne-Laure Le Cunff, Gillian Liu, Erin Wade, Paul Millerd, Andrew Wilkinson, Michia Rohrssen, and other guests who have generously shared the honest, unresolved parts of building a different life.

One line from Michia stayed with me long after we stopped recording:

“The whole world is waiting for you.”

Not necessarily waiting for you to quit tomorrow.

But perhaps waiting for you to send the message, run the experiment, follow the curiosity, or begin building the bridge.

I’m deeply grateful to every guest who has given their time to this podcast. These conversations have changed how I understand work, risk, freedom, and what it means to build a life that feels more like your own.

Explore Escape 9 to 5:

https://www.dayzeroproduction.com/escape-9-to-5

Watch the full podcast archive:

https://www.youtube.com/@LydiaCLinzi/podcasts

About the show:

Escape 9 to 5 is a podcast about people who leave default paths and build more deliberate, self-directed lives.

Hosted by Lydia Linzi, a former investment banker turned climate-tech founder and creator.

Connect with Lydia:

https://www.dayzeroproduction.com

https://www.instagram.com/lydiachenlinzi

Most people know Brian Dean as the founder of Backlinko and co-founder of Exploding Topics. He built his life from his dad’s basement into selling two companies.

But this conversation isn’t just about how he did it.

It’s about what came after: the strange, quiet, surprisingly stressful question of what freedom is actually for once you finally have it.

We get into the first business that failed, the years of trial and error before anything worked, building an audience before earning a cent, geo-arbitrage, Portugal, tennis, why passive income is never really passive, and how AI is reshaping search.

But underneath all of it is the question I kept coming back to:

Is happiness about having more, or about learning to want less?

Find Brian:
Programs.com: https://programs.com/
Backlinko: https://backlinko.com/
Exploding Topics: https://explodingtopics.com/
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@BrianDean/videos
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/brianedean/

Escape 9 to 5 is a long-form podcast about people who stepped away from the conventional path to build more deliberate, self-directed lives.

Listen and subscribe:
https://www.dayzeroproduction.com/escape-9-to-5

Follow Lydia:
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/lydiachenlinzi/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lichenlydia/
Website: https://www.dayzeroproduction.com/

Newsletter:
Sunday Not Blue: https://www.lydia-c-linzi.kit.com/
The First 60 Days: https://lydiaclinzi.substack.com/

Jacob Warwick has helped leaders secure over $1 billion in compensation across tech, Hollywood, private equity, and large companies.

But this conversation goes far beyond negotiation tactics.

We talk about the mindset shift from candidate to consultant, why so many people struggle to stand up for their own value, and what it takes to enter the room with dignity, safety, and self-trust.

Jacob also shares the personal experiences that shaped his approach to negotiation, and why learning to speak for yourself is about more than money.

This is a conversation about negotiation, but also about knowing your value before someone else decides it for you.

Connect with Jacob:

Website: https://www.thinkwarwick.com/

Newsletter: https://execsandthecity.com/

YouTube: @ExecsandtheCity

Hosted by Lydia.

Escape 9 to 5 explores unconventional career paths, reinvention, and building meaningful lives on your own terms.

🎙 About Escape 9 to 5Escape 9 to 5 is a long-form podcast about people leaving default paths and building lives of freedom, agency, and meaning. New episodes monthly.More episodes:https://www.dayzeroproduction.com/escape-9-to-5If this conversation resonated, please like, subscribe, and share it with someone who needs to hear it.📍 About MeHi I'm Lydia, I'm a banker turned Climate Tech EntrepreneurBuilding something to connect people and funding.

He sold his company for $110 million at 31. Retired. Traveled to Antarctica twice. Visited Richard Branson's private island. Then came back to build again.This is a conversation I've been trying to have for two years. Michia Rhossen and I first connected through the Part-Time YouTuber Academy in London, and we finally sat down on my last day in Hong Kong before flying back to London. No script, no preparation.What we ended up talking about wasn't the grinding stories or the exit mechanics. It was what happens after. What success means when money is no longer the goal. Why comfort was the scariest part of his journey. And how he's now building three companies, not because he has to, but because he realized that not building was the selfish choice.If you take one thing from this episode, let it be this: "If I'm still excited about what I'm doing, then I think I've won. And if we have 100 million users and I'm not excited, then I've lost."Find Michia: @askmichia on Instagram and YouTubeThis is Episode 34 of Escape 9 to 5.

Connect with Michia

Instagram / YouTube: @askmichia

Explore more from Escape 9 to 5

Podcast archive: https://www.dayzeroproduction.com/escape-9-to-5

Escape 9 to 5 is a podcast by https://www.dayzeroproduction.com/ and hosted by Lydia Chen — real conversations with people who left the traditional path and built something of their own. New episodes monthly.

Connect with Lydia: @lydiachenlinzi on Instagram | lydiaclinzi.substack.com

At eighteen, Alex Smereczniak bought a college laundry business with $2,000 and a seller-financing deal. Three years later, he exited.

In this episode, we talk about:• Buying a business at 18• Why “unsexy” paths can teach you more than prestige• Leaving corporate when it doesn’t fit• Building Franzy, a platform helping people access franchise ownership• And the question that still lingers with me:“Are you happy doing what you’re doing?”

Alex is the founder and CEO of Franzy, an AI-powered platform helping people discover and acquire franchise businesses. Before Franzy, he built and scaled 2ULaundry and LaundroLab.

Connect with Alex:Franzy — ⁠https://www.franzy.com⁠LinkedIn — https://www.linkedin.com/in/alex-smereczniak-40310329/

Hosted by Lydia .Escape 9 to 5 explores unconventional career paths and building meaningful lives on your own terms.

At eighteen, Alex Smereczniak bought a college laundry business with $2,000 and a seller-financing deal. Three years later, he exited.

In this episode, we talk about:
• Buying a business at 18
• Why “unsexy” paths can teach you more than prestige
• Leaving corporate when it doesn’t fit
• Building Franzy, a platform helping people access franchise ownership
• And the question that still lingers with me:
“Are you happy doing what you’re doing?”

Alex is the founder and CEO of Franzy, an AI-powered platform helping people discover and acquire franchise businesses. Before Franzy, he built and scaled 2ULaundry and LaundroLab.

Connect with Alex:Franzy — https://www.franzy.comLinkedIn — https://www.linkedin.com/in/alex-smereczniak-40310329/

Hosted by Lydia .
Escape 9 to 5 explores unconventional career paths and building meaningful lives on your own terms.