Evolving Diversity Podcast

In this passionate conversation about cultural appropriation Caroline Caldwell and your host, Carol Hamilton discuss the Dos and Don’ts. 

Caroline is a nonprofit founder and a community activist, of over 20 years and her unique understanding of Cultural Appropriation has pivotal many people to understand the delicate ways in which we can have conversations around the often heated topic. 

Carol and Caroline take this conversation from such heated topics of using slang, to even conversations about the racy lyrics of Cardi B. This conversation has it all but more than anything it has the signature Evolving Diversity theme of understanding and tolerance.  This is a conversation that will leave you laughing out loud and pondering how you can connect deeper with your fellow brothers and sisters.  

Please share and subscribe and enjoy the SHOW!! 

Main Ideas
How do you what's Cultural Appropriation?
• How do know when you are actually celebrating and honoring someone’s culture?
• Need to make sure when sharing in someone’s culture that you give reference to, and accolades to that culture and not just taking and using it and disregarding where it comes from. 
• Even look at country music references which are historically taken from Blues, and very rarely referenced. 

Appropriation can be difficult 
• Many times people are oppressed, culture is ripped from them and they are left with nothing. 
• There are so many historical differences, and perspectives
• The lens is completely distorted and many people are taking credit for culture and history that does not belong to them.

Some great ways to bridge the gaps and understand each other cultures better
• Call your black churches and ask to visit or meet with the hospitality team
• Initiate active conversations with other groups of cultures different from you

It comes down to being more observant of your behaviors and staying true to yourself.
• Don’t try and change your vernacular to fit it, or the way you dress to fit in, please be the authentic you, that you know you are
• Code-switching becomes a problem when you're doing it because of whom 
• if you're white, would you say that to another white person?

KEY Thoughts
2:02 - “The problem is you take something that doesn't belong to you. You don't give credit to where it comes from.
You don't even give respect. To where it comes from. You don't even feel like you need to talk about why you like doing it.”
6:18 - “So I'm going to say this black person, even when it comes to appropriation, we are all monolithic in how we see it and perceive it and how we experience it. Absolutely. Right. And so, again, I don't have a problem. With white people wanting to do black stuff. Right. That's not my problem because we're awesome.”
19:31 - "That becomes the issue when you grab things that don't belong to you as if they're yours and you created them it's a lot of work, right. But that's the work that's required in this country in order for us to heal in order for us to be in a space where we can start to share experiences openly and lovingly, right. Is that acknowledgment because there's so much hurt, Carol. There's so much hurt behind the fabric of being a person of color in this country. 
22:41 - “I tell people all the time, you're not going to ever hear me say if the police, my whole entire family is law enforcement, so that's not my issue. But the reality is the history of policing. Policing is not in the constitution. The history of policing is slave controlling. That's where police came from. Slave patrols turn into state police turns into County police turns into city police period. And so the foundation of policing is still the same to oppress, suppress and control Brown bodies. That's never changed..”
24:21 - “ And this is where I think cultural appropriation has a shot at changing is when people like you tell people like me, do you realize what you're doing? So, you know, what are you doing? You're inviting people to step into black churches without having any preamble, without having any pre-relationship without asking for an invitation that's wrong.  Don't do that. Here's how you can do it because I think if we keep offering, here's what you need to do instead. And here's how it can be. We're going to, that's how we change the world.”
25:19 - “Here's what I believe, even in these troubled times, even when there's so much division and we're split like right down the middle, I still believe people are inherently good. I still believe that people want the best for them, the best for the people that they love, and the best for their neighbors. I feel like sometimes all the noise and the pain and the suffering, that you feel you sometimes can't see your way past that, but there is a way past that.
 
Resources
http://newmindhealthandcare.org/
Please Reach Caroline at
[email protected]

Our guest today is a global citizen and friend, who carries a magnetic personality, Anupa Dasgupta. She brings with her such a beautiful warmth and charm to the conversation. 

One of my favorite things she said was. 

“You know, the thing is that when we are in a role of leadership, we have to be a communicator. We have to be an empathizer as well as a business leader. So I think those key qualities are really important, just not to make your business scalable. It's more to build better people. And I think that's what we need.”

Main Ideas

Where does your ability to be magnetic, with confidence come from? 

• From amazing peoples stories around me
• She is also what she calls “Differently Abled”
• When she started working on her own as an independent designer

Three Experiences that shaped some great connections that you should partake in

• Wednesday Web Jam
• Open discussions on Zoom calls
• Design sessions, the one, in particular, Anupa experienced was with Adam Lawrence.

What you can do when you are handed a global team to manage, and strategies Anupa Used

• Building a super comfortable environment 
• You build in relatable factors
• Create leadership practices from within

What are some ways you can communicate across cultures in the workplace better?

KEY Thoughts

4’21” — “I grew up in Greece and I think that was one of the key starters of, uh, of how I developed as a person who could experience and accept different cultures and communities because I went to a British private school and we had people from all over the world.”

8’ 24” - “Once things get back to normal, which I'm hoping it would in another few months, I think this opportunity to connect so easily, wouldn't be there. So when I see an opportunity, I go for it. And you know, whether that's meeting you on the TEDx or, you know, being a part of the Wednesday web jam, or even connecting professionally with my clients, I think it's just opening up a lot of doors

14’31” -  “there is this relatable factor. So it's just not about, let's say, you know, a leader because the leader needs to know about, let's say strategic directions or business acumen or financial. This is a given according to me, but what they need to build on is that empathy, the compassion, the value.”

18’04” - you know, the thing is that when we are in a role of leadership, we have to be a communicator. We have to be an empathizer as well as a business leader, those qualities are really important. 

Resources

https://www.wednesdaywebjam.com/

Find Anupa on LinkedIn.

Our guest on the episode today is Bianca McCart, and she has an amazing story of how she learned so much about social, and cultural differences in both family and professional environments after finding a surprise family! What she shared in this episode can help you to better understand the cross-cultural differences in your own life, preparing you with the utmost powerful tool, compassion, and empathy. Listen to this incredible story with Bianca and your incredible host Carol Hamilton, please like and leave us a review on what was brought up for you in this heartwarming episode.  

Main Ideas

The Shocking and Amazing story of Bianca’s Surprise family 

• How integrating into a new culture and family really teaches you about yourself
• How Bianca integrated with a whole new family in Costa Rica
• Learning the cultural differences and feeling through the awkwardness and how you can too

What you can learn from Bianca’s professional journey

• How to increase your empathy for people whose professional language is not their first native language and how knowing this will crease your productivity
• Listening more attentively, engaging active listening strategies.
• How to observe the dance big companies try to implement, but often fail at when it comes to cultural diversity, and how you can improve them in your work environment

We are actually tons of offensive stances we take without even knowing how to be more cognizant of this so you can communicate much more fluidly, powerfully, and with compassion. 

• There are ways we are actually offending people that a majority of people don’t even notice

KEY Thoughts

00” — “You can't really assume what other people know or understand based on their appearance or their accent or things that are external to you until you investigate and interrogate what it is that they're trying to communicate or what they really don't understand. You can't kind of lecture a person into having the same outlook or point of view as you do. Welcome to evolving diversity, a place where engaging conversations are the goal. An awkward question is encouraged. I'm Carol Hamilton, your host for this journey. Find a comfy spot, grab a cup of something and let's dive in. Imagine waking up tomorrow. Finding out that you have roots in a completely different culture that you didn't know about.

2’17” I opened up Google translate and I put these, uh, put what he had put into the translator and it came back a little bit garbled, but essentially it said this picture that I've sent you is a picture of me and our father. And he really hopes to meet you someday. 

05’49” I would say that the biggest thing is that people are very affectionate and having a family connection means that you know, just instantly you're part of the family. There's no distance between you and another person just because you haven't gotten to know each other.

20’21” — “I had a colleague, um, from Mexico who also had a bit of a stutter and he was the greatest person to work with. And I felt like when we had big meetings on the phone, people would talk over him, constantly interrupt him, and it just seemed really unfair. They were, it seemed like they devalued his contributions and his intelligence because of the way that he spoke.”

21’44” —  “..hospitality is a huge part of Hispanic culture and, you know, they, they will go out of their way to make sure that anyone who's visiting has A good experience and feels welcome, even if it means that they, you know, are out with you every night, giving you tours, taking you to restaurants, showing you new food, um, you'll never lack for the company in. A Latino country. Um, and they definitely do not have that experience at all there. Uh, when they come here, at least at my company, it's we have to remind people, you know, so-and-so's here visiting for three months.

25’18” —  “And I think that's been one of the biggest realizations for me is just having the ability to change that mindset from being time focused and efficiency-focused to being people-focused.

John Carlson is an HR strategist and a proud member of LGBTQ IA+, which stands for Lesbians, Gays, Bi-Sexual, Transgender, Queer, Intersex, and Asexual.   

Main Ideas

• The changes in this space are soo fast. And you, you realize you're suddenly completely eliminating or ignoring a group of people that truthfully many of us didn't know existed. 
• This whole conversation can feel very complex.
• The acronym is getting so big that it seems like it may just become a name. 
• LGBTQIP2SAN - Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgender, Questioning, Queer, Intersects, Pansexual, Androgynous, Asexual
• There is Freedom to be almost anything. 
• Often times its a spiritual choice
• 2Spirit is the Native American reference for someone who has both sexes.
• Getting to know more people that have a different background
• How did John find his way to this space?
• Through a series of happy accidents
• He had self-identified very young but found it difficult to share their true identity. 
• When his father passed, it was the lesson experience that brought forth the courage to truly live into his calling. 
• Even after coming out, was still segregated, with statements like don’t be too gay. 

KEY Thoughts

14’02” - So we ended up getting the framework for DNI rolled out, both on a national and global level. And then I had this kind of light bulb go off. And I'm saying if I can do this at one organization and I can make change happen why can't I do this and help so many people in so many other companies.

16’29” - if you think about it, we have more access than ever as consumers to choose. We can choose where we want to spend our money. And these organizations have to understand that they have to get an anti-racism anti-discrimination people-first mentality, or else they will not be sustainable into the future.

27’30” - I know that allies are, it seems like there's some discussion. I brought up the term ally recently and I had someone bristle. And I've never seen that before and it wasn't sure what to do with that. And I, is there controversy around being allies or do you know what I might've seen?

28’19” - A lot of people who claim allyship, don't really know what it takes to do. To be an ally. They don't understand the risk involved. So if I am an ally of the inflicted group, that means being all-in. It means being willing to risk my social capital, my physical financial wellbeing, my, my livelihood, everything for the sake of the empowerment of that group.

30’18” - I have learned repeatedly at this strength of and power of people who I might've seen as somehow disenfranchised or having these other issues. There is more character and more strength in that, in those groups, because you know of how they've had to live their lives

Links

Hamilton Think Tank: https://www.hamiltonthinktank.com

Our guest on this episode is Lauren Duncan, a transgender engineer. Lauren shares the story of her transition, from growing up a boy to realizing who she was always meant to be. She also describes a video that was put together at her work that celebrates her transition and her identity as a transwoman. Lauren offers practical advice for allies for how to better support their trans friends and families.

Main Ideas

There is Hope for People Who Want to Transition

• It takes courage to be honest with yourself about who you want to be.
• It is often not worth the emotional debt to live a burdensome lie.

Assimilation is Often Isolating

• Lauren initially wanted to go back in the closet, so to speak.
• The desire to keep a low profile just slows progress.
• It is often about encouraging others to lift themselves up, too.
• Her transition in the workplace story was overwhelmingly positive.

How Can We Be Better Allies?

• Don’t deadname: use the names and pronouns a trans person uses.
• Ask everyone their pronouns to normalize the conversation.
• Let trans people decide the level of information they are comfortable sharing.
• Be familiar with terms in the community, like “deadname,” “cisgender” and more.

“Passing” in the Trans Community

• Also called blending and assimilation, it is a detrimental standard to put on trans people.
• Do not base the success of someone’s transition on what everyone else looks like.
• View support as the ultimate end goal of your relationship with trans people.

What Lauren Loves About Being Herself

• Lauren is so much more curious, bold, and brave now that she has transitioned.
• The profound courage of the trans community alone is enough to celebrate them.

KEY Thoughts

3’45” — “Knowing that I was female was always intrinsic to me; there was never a doubt in my mind.”

7’20” — “Self-realization is not worth living two lives.”

11’15” — “I wanted people who might feel the way I do to see themselves in mystory...I wanted to make that impact.”

14’45” — “I see the change in equipping allies with information to be more helpful.”

20’30” — “People think the medical history of trans people should be public knowledge, but that’s just not acceptable.”

25’10” — “Statistics can be a great eye-opener to the struggle of trans people.”

27’40” — “Are you ever going to feel comfortable coming out and transitioning if you are expected to pass in a way that won’t be possible?”

32’30” — “Transitioning and realizing who you are, and embracing it, is so beautiful.”

Watch Lauren’s Coming Out Video on YouTube.

Our guest on this episode is a professional trainer and executive coach, Jeff Black, owner of Black Sheep Communications. Jeff talks about his childhood experience of attending one of the first integrated schools in Clarendon County, South Carolina. He also shares how women need to raise their hands and voices in an assertive way that assures they get heard. 

Main Ideas

Meet Miss Annie Gibson, a woman on a mission who changes the course of American History

• In 1949, Miss Gibson and 20 others drafted a petition for separate but equal schooling provisions as what was available in the white schools.
• Jeff meets Miss Gibson, who reveals to him why she participated in the petitioning. She would later lose her job for not removing her name from the document.
• The group chose Topeka, KS later in 1954 for Brown v. Board due to their fear of violence in South Carolina.
• They were not overwhelmed by the mountain ahead; they kept their eyes on the path underfoot.

The impact Miss Gibson had on Jeff’s life

• People touch our lives in ways we could never imagine in the moment.
• She is a constant reminder to take action because it’s right and it’s good.
• Miss Gibson’s work paved the way for the first integrated first-grade class in SC, which Jeff was a part of.

Jeff turns inspiration into Action

• Jeff creates Promise For Peace, an invitation for law enforcement officers to re-dedicate themselves to acting in peace and make a pledge against unlawful violence.
• Action to change injustice starts in our own communities.

What Could Make Inclusion More Actionable?

• Primarily, it is the men who volunteer to speak in meetings, training sessions, and decision-making. We need more women’s hands to rise up in order to guarantee more diversity at the leadership table.
• We need to invite women to be loud, wrong and hurt.
• Leaders: you need to tell more stories. At the end of the week, people don’t care about the data. But they will remember a story, especially a vulnerable one.

KEY Thoughts

4’05” — The running joke was that Jeff Black was a white student in this class.

8’30” — “Honey, if we’d have thought that, we’d have never had the courage. We weren’t trying to change America. We were just trying to change our community.”

16’14” — “Start small. Small impact equals big things. Like Annie Gibson did.”

21’00” — “We need to encourage women to have a voice, not just a seat. Because we fought too hard for just a seat.”

Find Jeff on LinkedIn.

Go to blacksheepunleashed.com to learn more!

Our guest on this episode is AnMed Health’s Director of Diversity and Language Services, Juana Slade. During our conversation, we discuss the origins and the future of diversity and inclusion leadership in industries across the country.

Main Ideas

The diversity conversation at AnMed started as a strategic operation.

This work is both “head work” and “heart work.”
Healthcare systems need to understand and care about health inequity in order to meet these challenges.
Relationships Drive Results: A connection with people will override differences in background and perspective. The relationship-building is key to establishing a shared respect and providing world-class care.

Specific Actions Allies Can Take

Understand that the mission comes first, even though diversity matters.
Prove that diversity does matter and is in the interest of everyone.
“Differentology”—figure out how to use your differences for the good of all.

We Are at a Crossroads in This Country

In healthcare, professionals are beginning to own the inequities.
Many are realizing that nontraditional relationships (public-private) will need to be developed to address the challenges of inequality.
There is hope for diversity work in the future.

KEY Thoughts

5’00” — “There is usually a rush to creative strategic diversity objectives to protect the bottom line.”

10’28” — “It doesn’t matter where you come from, we still have to make sure we deliver the best healthcare possible. We need to make sure those experiences are positive in nature for every patient, every time.”

16’10” — “While diversity is important, the key, when it comes to the workplace, is about meeting the mission. Having a diverse and competent organization benefits all.”

22’45” — “It does me good to know that it’s not just the diversity officer or the diversity professional in an organization who’s trying to find these solutions: there are others who understand the value, and who are working on the solutions as well.”

Find Juana on LinkedIn.

A professional Perspective on diversity and cultural inclusion

This conversation with Senior Vice President Ron Everett, a Black leader both at home and work, delves into his professional perspective on diversity, cultural inclusion, banking and even his wisdom around parenting.  

Main Ideas

Parenting by example

• The impact of witnessing his teenage mother’s success in college
• Bypassing the negative in his neighborhood without losing his connection 
• Having the safety talk with his daughter and her dates

How do we get better at not being judgmental 

• Expand your circle of influence

• Get to know people that don’t look like you
• Getting to know more people that have a different background

What Ron Loves about being black

• His hair
• His culture
• Code Switching 
• Resilience of black community and the optimism 

KEY Thoughts

1’ 46” - If I say PWI to people, and honestly, it's more associated with people who've gone to college, in the black community, so I wouldn't be able to say it in some forums to black people, they may not know it, but it's the same thing with anything else

9’ 05 - There are some reputable articles out there about code-switching in the corporate environment. Where, if I'm sitting in a room with mixed company, or in a diverse room, versus just me and my black colleagues, we may start talking in a different way that's more familiar and then use terms that would not necessarily be accepted or it'd be acceptable, it just wouldn't be understood in a corporate environment.

12’ 00 - I think how you frame the question always matters, but asking someone about their experience versus asking them to teach you to do it are two entirely different things.

14’40” - It's also about adding voice to individuals so that we do hear from people who aren't just the Jesse Jackson's who are the loudest, but also from some of the thoughtful people who might be a little bit quieter. And so maybe this is that kind of conversation where you bring it in and say, we would like your particular opinion

Links

Hamilton Think Tank: https://www.hamiltonthinktank.com

This conversation with Senior Vice President Ron Everett, a Black leader both at home and work, delves into his professional perspective on diversity, cultural inclusion, banking, and even his wisdom around parenting.  

Main Ideas

Parenting by example

• The impact of witnessing his teenage mother’s success in college
• Bypassing the negative in his neighborhood without losing his connection 
• Having the safety talk with his daughter and her dates

How do we get better at not being judgmental 

• Expand your circle of influence
• Get to know people that don’t look like you
• Getting to know more people that have a different background

What Ron Loves about being black

• His hair
• His culture
• Code-Switching 
• The resilience of the black community and the optimism 

KEY Thoughts

23’17” I have a lot of thoughts about things that are annoying, but I think I think black people in general have become very used to microaggressions.

25’30 When I think about what people can do, I think there is this foundational thing that people can do that will eliminate a whole lot of problems. It begins with expanding your circles of influence, expanding your circle of friends, if more people had diverse groups of friends, then you’d see less responses to people based on stereotypes.

31’24” After George Ford, I heard people say literally, “I had no idea this type of stuff happens.” I thought to myself, Eric Garner Tamira Rice, Fernando Castille, Walter Scott, Alton Sterling. I could name them all, like John Crawford and I could keep going. 

45’04” Juneteenth is a holiday celebrating the emancipation of slavery, but it’s based on when the last slaves were freed. 

52’01” While Black people are not a monolithic group, there are a lot of shared experiences that we can relate to. And I think we really coalesce around different struggles very well with each other.

I wish more people would have these types of conversations. It doesn’t have to be a podcast, but it should happen in friendships where there’s an exchange, where people are learning more about each other.

Links

Hamilton Think Tank: https://www.hamiltonthinktank.com

Being Black in America

In this insightful conversation with our guest who remained anonymous, we discuss again some of the challenges he’s had while growing up black, and what that has ultimately shaped him 

Main Ideas

How do we leave better systems for the next generation?

• What does it mean to leave better systems?
• We are not accurate to think that the next generations will not be swayed even after knowing the facts
• Next generations tend to fall back on whatever systems we’ve left them.

What happens when we have to always look over our shoulder

• Idea behind microaggressions
• While living black can often mean carrying the burden of other people's fears

How we can be a part of the solution 

• Look at yourself first
• The trusted 10 exercise
• Let this exercise of examining your closest 10 friends show you how you are living in your day to day interactions

Who can you have awkward conversations with

• Are they your Gender Y/N
• Could they live in your neighborhood, could they afford it
• Using this exercise to really assess if you are outside your comfort zone and if you aren’t is it ok for you to be leading, if you have not. 

KEY Thoughts

10’ 57”I think there's absolute hope in the next generation. Students, I think COVID COVID, has shed light on how resilient our kids really are. You know, when I read the paper, when I watched the news, as an adult, when I'm having conversations about what's best for them, I think one of the voices we often leave out are the kids, right? We always listen, what was the parents saying? What did they need? What's childcare gonna look like for them?

12’23 “Here's my fear, my fear is that, you know, we always think the next generation, if this generation just goes away, the next one's going to do better. That's always the thought. That's always been how it's been. But then some of the same things still end up repeating themselves”

12’48” I was reading about how, after President Obama was elected decades ago, the day after he was elected, white supremacists, site website memberships, doubled in membership. And when they did a study of how it doubled and what the demographics look like, the demographics were about 80% of 20 something-year-olds that joined those sites.

20'07 "I think whenever we are seeking to fight for social change, fight for social justice, I think it's important that we look at ourselves first. So I think that's the first thing we always seek to do. And that's a journey, right? You always work on yourself, but you should always be working on becoming a better person, a better father, a better mother a better just human being."

23'54 "And so I asked, how Who do you trust? And I define trust as now in the diversity space as who we who can you have an awkward conversation with? So is and now look at that list of you want to ask a personal question or something like that, where you can have an awkward conversation"

 Links

Hamilton Think Tank: https://www.hamiltonthinktank.com