John has dedicated his life to learning and educating people about human systems. From a very early age, he realised that he was a small part of a vast universe and those powerful dynamics of the education system were largely ignored in favour of the curriculum. During our conversation, he highlights how some of his early experiences at various schools shaped the organisational analyst he is today. John has positively contributed to many lives through his work at the Grubb Institute. Working with his colleagues to pioneer frameworks and practices that have assisted countless people to navigate the various human systems they inhabit. Over the last 50 years, he has published extensively, bringing some reflection to the experiential work he loves to co-create. Technically he is 'retired', however, he continues to assist people to make sense of their lived experience through various projects that he is part of.