Face-Off

Iran and North Korea are two of the clearest tests of the global nonproliferation order. North Korea has crossed the threshold entirely as an openly nuclear-armed state. Iran sits at the threshold, advancing its nuclear capabilities while denying its attempts to seek the bomb amid the current U.S.-Israeli war. In this episode Jane Perlez interviews former U.S. Deputy Secretary of State Wendy Sherman about how difficult it is to stop determined governments from reshaping the nuclear map. 

Sherman revisits the moment North Korea agreed to a temporary moratorium on select missile testing and the decisions that ultimately led nuclear diplomacy to break down. Sherman was also the lead U.S. negotiator for the 2015 Iran Nuclear Deal. “We cannot underestimate Iran's abilities or future capabilities,” Sherman says. “The whole world is in a much more dangerous place than it once was.”

Reading Recommendations:

Not for The Faint of Heart: Lessons in Courage, Power and Persistence by Wendy Sherman. A rare book: a gripping read by a senior government official at the center of the action.

Kim Jong Un and the Bomb by Ankit Panda. The author, a senior fellow at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace, reveals how the mercurial leader got the bomb. 

Fallout: The Inside Story of America’s Failure to Disarm North Korea by Joel S. Wit. A candid account by a former State Department diplomat involved in the talks with Pyongyang.

Iran and the Bomb by Sina Azodi. An assistant professor at George Washington University explores the trajectory of Iran, the United States and the bomb. 

Face-Off is produced and reported by Jane Perlez. Our production team is Nina Porzucki, Louise Morris, and Frank Zhou. Sound design and mixing by John Myers and Rowhome Productions.

This project is made possible by the Belfer Center at the Harvard Kennedy School and the Managing the Atom Project. Our special guest is Professor Matthew Bunn, Faculty Chair of the Managing the Atom Project (@matthew-bunn.bsky.social).

Face Off is produced in partnership with Rowhome Productions. Rowhome's Creative Director is Alex Lewis. John Myers is Rowhome's Executive Producer.

Episode Art Image 1 Credit: AP Photo/Vahid Salemi. Image 1 Caption: Mojtaba, son of Iranian Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, center, attends the annual Quds, or Jerusalem Day rally in Tehran, Iran, on May 31, 2019.

Episode Art Image 2 Credit: Korean Central News Agency/Korea News Service via AP. Image 2 Caption: In this photo provided by the North Korean government, North Korean leader Kim Jong Un delivers a speech during a dinner with Chinese President Xi Jinping, in Pyongyang, Monday, June 8, 2026.

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It is one of the great broken promises of the post-Cold War era. When the Soviet Union collapsed, Ukraine found itself in possession of the world’s third-largest nuclear arsenal. In 1994, Ukraine gave up those weapons in exchange for assurances that its sovereignty would be protected. Jane Perlez was there reporting on the nuclear dismantling in Kyiv that winter of 1994. Decades later, Vladimir Putin has threatened to unleash nuclear weapons on Ukraine. In this episode, Jane Perlez interviews former Ukrainian foreign minister Dmytro Kuleba. 

Kuleba explains that Russia could have invaded Ukraine in 2022 whether or not Ukraine had nuclear weapons, but he believes strongly that the Americans should have done more to support his nation. “That's always the problem: Ukrainians pay with blood and tears for every intellectual failure of their Western colleagues.” Amid the world’s shifting balance of power, Kuleba weighs in: what could Ukraine have done?

Reading Recommendations:

Inheriting the Bomb by Mariana Budjeryn. Fabulous archival and on the ground research. A first rate political scientist looks at the disarmament of Ukraine, including the pressures from Washington. 

Face-Off is produced and reported by Jane Perlez. Our production team is Nina Porzucki, Louise Morris, and Frank Zhou. Sound design and mixing by John Myers and Rowhome Productions.

This project is made possible by the Belfer Center at the Harvard Kennedy School and the Managing the Atom Project. Our special guest is Professor Matthew Bunn, Faculty Chair of the Managing the Atom Project (@matthew-bunn.bsky.social).

Face Off is produced in partnership with Rowhome Productions. Rowhome's Creative Director is Alex Lewis. John Myers is Rowhome's Executive Producer.

Episode Art Image Credit: James Hill for the New York Times. Image Caption: A missile scientist stands inside the Pivdenmash rocket factory 250 miles southeast of Kyiv in 1994.

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There was a time when the nuclear powers did more than posture. During the era of arms control, the White House, Kremlin, and State Department built frameworks to slow the arms race and reduce the chance of catastrophe. The process was imperfect and often fragile. In this episode, Jane Perlez interviews New START Treaty chief negotiator Rose Gottemoeller. Gottemoeller takes us behind the scenes to dissect how a nuclear treaty comes together: the negotiations, the personalities, the yelling from the White House, and the U.S.-Russian nuclear facility ground inspections spelled out in painstaking detail. “Both sides really try to make sure that the other side doesn't see what they're not supposed to see,” Gottemoeller tells us. Now, as the last nuclear treaties expire, we must ask: is there still a path forward on arms control? 

Reading Recommendations:

Negotiating the New START Treaty by Rose Gottemoeller: The American negotiator for the last arms control treaty tells her story. Insider, juicy stuff. 

Detente and Confrontation by Raymond Garthoff: Published in 1985, highly regarded account of the and fall of detente in the 1970s and early 80s.

Face-Off is produced and reported by Jane Perlez. Our production team is Nina Porzucki, Louise Morris, and Frank Zhou. Sound design and mixing by John Myers and Rowhome Productions.

This project is made possible by the Belfer Center at the Harvard Kennedy School and the Managing the Atom Project. Our special guest is Professor Matthew Bunn, Faculty Chair of the Managing the Atom Project (@matthew-bunn.bsky.social).

Face Off is produced in partnership with Rowhome Productions. Rowhome's Creative Director is Alex Lewis. John Myers is Rowhome's Executive Producer.

Episode Art Image Credit: AP Photo/JH. Image Caption: A young donor receives a button from Dr. Louise Reiss after giving his baby teeth to the strontium research project in St. Louis, Missouri on Jan. 15, 1962. The button announces: “I Gave My Tooth to Science.”

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Jane Perlez reports on the thirteen most dangerous days in human history, when the world came closer to nuclear annihilation than ever before or since: the Cuban Missile Crisis. In October 1962, a Soviet submarine trapped under the Atlantic with a nuclear-tipped torpedo faced orders so ambiguous they could spell the end of civilization. Above the surface, American President John F. Kennedy learned of Soviet missiles in Cuba and had to decide: invade, bomb, or negotiate? With historian Fredrik Logevall, Pulitzer Prize winner and foremost biographer of President Kennedy, Perlez explores how a young president and a Soviet leader, both haunted by war, chose empathy over escalation.

Logevall explains how Kennedy's willingness to see through Khrushchev's eyes—to understand his rival's motives—became key to resolution. The secret agreement to  withdraw Soviet missiles from Cuba for American missiles from Turkey allowed both sides to claim victory and step back from the abyss. But the crisis revealed dangers that still haunt us: the fragility of communication, the weight of incomplete information, and how quickly human judgment can fail under pressure. Sixty-four years later, as nuclear weapons proliferate and leaders lose touch with the visceral fear that defined 1962, the question remains: would we be as lucky next time?

Reading Recommendations:

Abyss by Max Hastings. This is the latest on the Cuban Missile Crisis by one of the finest contemporary historians. 

The Underwater Cuban Missile Crisis at 60 by the National Security Archive. This is nail-biting original research by the Washington-based National Security Archive on what happened aboard the Soviet submarine carrying a nuclear-tipped torpedo at the height of the crisis.

Face-Off is produced and reported by Jane Perlez. Our production team is Nina Porzucki, Louise Morris, and Frank Zhou. Sound design and mixing by John Myers and Rowhome Productions.

This project is made possible by the Belfer Center at the Harvard Kennedy School and the Managing the Atom Project. Our special guest is Professor Matthew Bunn, Faculty Chair of the Managing the Atom Project (@matthew-bunn.bsky.social).

Face Off is produced in partnership with Rowhome Productions. Rowhome's Creative Director is Alex Lewis. John Myers is Rowhome's Executive Producer.

Episode Art Image Credit: Associated Press Photo. Image Caption: President John F. Kennedy makes a national television speech October 22, 1962, from Washington, announcing a naval blockade of Cuba until Soviet missiles are removed.

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The nuclear age began in fear, secrecy, and scientific ambition. The bomb created in a moment of wartime urgency became the foundation of a new global order defined by terror and deterrence. The story is familiar, but its implications have never left us. In episode two of the series, Jane Perlez interviews nuclear historian Alex Wellerstein about the origins of the bomb and the Americans’ race to build a weapon before Hitler. Wellerstein explains how the White House first learned about a terrifying source of energy and the top-secret decision-making that culminated in Los Alamos and the creation of the first atom bomb used on Hiroshima, Japan in 1945.  

Jane Perlez also travels to Hiroshima with Associate Producer Frank Zhou to interview an atomic bomb survivor and retrace her steps through the decimated city in the hours after the blast. Decades later, we must ask: will we let it happen again?

Reading Recommendations:

Hiroshima by John Hersey. The gruesome, influential reportage by the famed New Yorker writer about Hiroshima eight months after the bombing. 

Fallout by Lesley M.M. Blume. The riveting behind-the-scenes story of how John Hersey got his Hiroshima story. 

90 Seconds to Midnight by Charlotte Decroes Jacobs. A biography of Setsuko Nakamura Thurlow, a schoolgirl who survived Hiroshima. 

The Most Awful Responsibility: Truman and the Secret Struggle for Control of the Atomic Age by Alex Wellerstein. When he gave the go-ahead to bomb, Truman thought Hiroshima was mainly a military base. He was mistaken.

Face-Off is produced and reported by Jane Perlez. Our production team is Nina Porzucki, Louise Morris, and Frank Zhou. Sound design and mixing by John Myers and Rowhome Productions.

This project is made possible by the Belfer Center at the Harvard Kennedy School and the Managing the Atom Project. Our special guest is Professor Matthew Bunn, Faculty Chair of the Managing the Atom Project (@matthew-bunn.bsky.social).

Face Off is produced in partnership with Rowhome Productions. Rowhome's Creative Director is Alex Lewis. John Myers is Rowhome's Executive Producer.

Episode Art Image Credit: U.S. Department of Energy (or predecessor organization) employee. Image Caption: Leslie Groves (left), military head of the Manhattan Project, with Professor Robert Oppenheimer (right).

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For the first time in half a century, the world is drifting into a nuclear era with fewer constraints and more danger. The old arms control architecture is gone. The United States is modernizing its arsenal, Russia is making explicit nuclear threats, and China is expanding rapidly and in secret. Each development is destabilizing on its own. Together, they make a world in which the nuclear threat risks escalating faster than diplomacy can contain it. In episode one of the series, Jane Perlez and  New York Times White House and National Security Correspondent David Sanger lay out the stakes. How did we get to a world with crumbling nuclear guardrails? And what might happen next? 

Sanger explains why nuclear weapons are back: how the Biden White House scrambled to respond to Vladimir Putin’s threats to use the nuclear option against Ukraine, what the war in Iran and North Korea’s arsenal signal to nuclear-curious nations waiting in the wings, and whether it is ever possible to wage a “limited nuclear war.” They also discuss how AI and cyberwarfare will transform the future of our arsenals. As nuclear weapons return to the public eye, we must ask: is the world inching toward another nuclear conflict?

Reading Recommendations:

New Cold Wars by David Sanger on the current global tensions.

At The Brink by William Hennigan. A brilliant series of articles by the New York Times opinion writer on the state of nuclear weapons. 

Nukesletter, an email newsletter written by noted international expert on nuclear weapons, Ankit Panda. Subscribe here to receive future issues.

Face-Off is produced and reported by Jane Perlez. Our production team is Nina Porzucki, Louise Morris, and Frank Zhou. Sound design and mixing by John Myers and Rowhome Productions.

This project is made possible by the Belfer Center at the Harvard Kennedy School and the Managing the Atom Project. Our special guest is Professor Matthew Bunn, Faculty Chair of the Managing the Atom Project (@matthew-bunn.bsky.social).

Face-Off is produced in partnership with Rowhome Productions. Rowhome's Creative Director is Alex Lewis. John Myers is Rowhome's Executive Producer.

Episode Art Image Credit: U.S. Department of Energy. Image Caption: Overseas Operation Ivy, at a height of approximately 12,000 feet, 50 miles from the detonation site.

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The nuclear age began in secrecy and scientific ambition. The story is familiar, but its implications have never left us. Face-Off: Nuclear Anarchy is an 8-part series tracing the arc of nuclear danger. A bomb created in a moment of wartime urgency became the foundation of a global order defined by terror and deterrence. But what happens when that global order breaks down?

This season, we take you back inside the Manhattan Project and a decimated Hiroshima in the hours after the blast. We retrace the Cuban Missile Crisis and the abandonment of the New START treaty with a Pulitzer Prize-winning historian and the State Department decision-makers in the room. We follow China’s rapid expansion, Russia’s threats, Ukraine’s lost deterrent, and the outliers challenging the world’s nuclear order.

In each episode, Pulitzer-winning journalist Jane Perlez interviews leading participants in the nuclear conversation: David Sanger, Tong Zhao, Rose Gottemoeller, Alex Wellerstein and more. Plus, Harvard Kennedy School Professor Matthew Bunn joins for a wrap-up segment to put everything in context. Episodes out every Tuesday in October & November 2026. Listen wherever you get your podcasts.

This project is made possible by the Belfer Center at the Harvard Kennedy School and the Managing the Atom Project. Our special guest is Professor Matthew Bunn, Faculty Chair of the Managing the Atom Project (@matthew-bunn.bsky.social).

Face-Off is produced and reported by Jane Perlez. Our production team is Nina Porzucki, Louise Morris, and Frank Zhou. Sound design and mixing by John Myers.

Face Off is produced in partnership with Rowhome Productions. Rowhome’s Creative Director is Alex Lewis. John Myers is Rowhome’s Executive Producer.

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We’re hard at work on Season 4 of Face-Off. And we have some great episodes in the works, but while we’re in production I wanted to share an episode from a different podcast that I thought you might enjoy….

When people discuss environmental solutions, they often mention its impact on our lives. This can include ensuring parts of the planet remain inhabitable in the face of extreme temperatures, maintaining biodiversity, and preventing the oxidation of our oceans. But there’s another case to be made: Investing in our planet makes sense economically. 

Conservation can deliver high returns on investment. According to the ⁠International Monetary Fund⁠, every dollar spent on conservation and other green projects may yield up to seven dollars within five years. This is because of jobs created, food systems improved, and a reduction in greenhouse gases, among other outcomes. 

On this episode of The Hidden Economics of Remarkable Women, we speak with Jody Allen, a philanthropist, businesswoman, and conservationist. She cares deeply about protecting wildlife and our planet. Allen is also the owner of the Seattle Seahawks. Host Zainab Salbi, who co-founded Daughters for Earth with Allen, talks with Allen about the interplay between philanthropy and conservation. 

We also speak with two African wildlife conservations: Dr. Shivani Bhalla, founder of ⁠Ewaso Lions⁠ in Kenya, and Dr. Moreangels Mbizah, founder of ⁠Wildlife Conservation Action⁠ in Zimbabwe. They share what community-led conservation strategies look like and what they have seen work best to decrease human-wildlife conflict. 

The Hidden Economics of Remarkable Women is a podcast from Foreign Policy, supported this season by Daughters for Earth.

Guests Interviewed:

Jody Allen, Founder of Daughters for Earth

Dr. Shivani Bhalla, Founder of ⁠Ewaso Lions⁠

Dr. Moreangels Mbizah, Founder of ⁠Wildlife Conservation Action

Follow and listen to more episodes of The Hidden Economics of Remarkable Women: https://play.megaphone.fm/jzrwm69essm3zpacrrjmua

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As this episode is published - on April 21, 2026 -  it’s far from clear which direction the war between the US and Iran is headed. Even so, America’s reputation around the world is in decline, to say the least.

Trump is unrestrained.  He’s invaded Venezuela. Started a war like no other with Iran. Soured relations with traditional US allies in Europe. And not to mention the heavy tariffs he’s imposed across the globe. 

Trump and Xi Jinping are supposed to meet in a delayed summit in Beijing this spring. What is Beijing thinking? How might China capitalize on this very rocky moment?

With so much at stake, we turn to someone who has often been at the forefront of diplomacy: Nicholas Burns, the former US Ambassador to China under President Biden.

Our conversation was recorded on April 10th, which is important to note as the news is moving fast, very fast. 

***PLEASE TAKE OUR AUDIENCE SURVEY*** It only takes a minute and will help guide the future of Face-Off: https://bit.ly/faceoffsurvey

Face-Off: The U.S. vs. China is produced in partnership with ⁠Rowhome Productions⁠.

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In this episode, we take you inside the Chinese internet. 

China is currently home to the world's most sophisticated, far-reaching internet censorship regime. Chinese censors are trained to comb the web for off-limits words and phrases. Offending posts often disappear into thin air. And entire US-based platforms like Google, Youtube, Instagram, and Amazon, not to mention the New York Times are all banned.

But it’s one thing to talk about the regime and another to live under it. That’s the subject of a great new book, The Wall Dancers: Searching for Freedom and Connection on the Chinese Internet by Yi-Ling Liu.  Yi-Ling is an American reporter based in Hong Kong. 

So today on Face-Off, we hand over the mic to our Associate Producer Frank Zhou for a fascinating conversation with Yi-Ling Liu. 

Guest: Yi-Ling Liu, Writer & Editor covering AI and Chinese society

Further Reading:

The Wall Dancers: Searching for Freedom and Connection on the Chinese Internet  https://www.yi-lingliu.com/the-wall-dancers

***PLEASE TAKE OUR AUDIENCE SURVEY*** It only takes a minute and will help guide the future of Face-Off: https://bit.ly/faceoffsurvey

Face-Off: The U.S. vs. China is produced in partnership with ⁠Rowhome Productions⁠.

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