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Facts Don't Change Minds with Hamid Ganadhan
What if the reason people don't trust healthcare isn't the science- it's the communication? Rosa Hart sits down with Hamid Ghanadan, behavioral strategist, researcher, and author of Not Buying It, to explore why science and healthcare have a usability problem - and what communicators, clinicians, and companies can do about it.
From the neuroscience of decision-making to the Space Shuttle Challenger to vaccine hesitancy and children's mental health, Hamid and Rosa cover what it really takes to communicate in a way that moves people. Ethically, effectively, and humanly.
⏱ Episode Chapters
00:00 – Introduction & Guest Welcome
00:22 – Hamid's Background: From Bench to Behavioral Strategy
01:27 – Healthcare & Science Have a Usability Problem
02:26 – Market Research, Strategy & the Linus Group
03:00 – Patterns of Top Science Communicators
03:13 – The Role-Play Problem: Titles vs. Humans
04:09 – Priming: Why "I'm Just Looking" Is Never True
04:44 – Why Scientific Jargon Backfires at Conferences
05:22 – Emotions in Decision-Making: It's Biology, Not Strategy
05:29 – The Neuroscience: Logic Alone Cannot Drive Action
06:04 – The Frontal Cortex vs. the Amygdala
06:29 – Communication That Moves People to Act
06:52 – Storytelling: A Technology Co-Evolved With the Human Brain
07:13 – When Storytelling at a Conference Got a Doctor Shut Down
07:39 – Healthy Skepticism as a Clinician's Superpower
08:10 – Lead With Curiosity, Not Data
08:54 – The Right Communication Sequence: Curiosity → Facts
09:35 – Putting Data Too Early Spikes Skepticism
09:58 – Does Scientist-to-Scientist Selling Work?
11:20 – Facts Alone Never Close a Sale
11:46 – Persuasion vs. Manipulation: Drawing the Line
11:56 – How Social Media Algorithms Exploit Decision-Making
12:50 – Ethical Influence: The School Lunch Experiment
13:27 – When Good Communication Is a Public Service
14:14 – Space Shuttle Challenger: A Catastrophic Communication Failure
15:39 – Having the Right Data Is Not Enough
16:00 – Hamid's Personal Story: Not Understanding the Science He Studied
16:42 – Open Access Is Only the First Rung
17:45 – Stop Thinking About How to Teach; Think About How People Learn
18:39 – Start With Their Question, Not Yours
19:19 – Why Asking More Questions Predicts Better Outcomes
20:29 – Hamid's Two Questions for Rosa
21:34 – What Drives Rosa to Keep Podcasting
22:18 – Curiosity, Ideas & Grandparents' Theological Conversations
23:13 – Rosa's Week: Nurse Con at Sea & Family Before the Trip
24:55 – Online Highlight Reels Are Not Real Time
25:52 – Hamid: Posting for Content, Not Attention
26:00 – How Long It Took to Write the Book (A Hard Question to Answer)
26:47 – Building a Book from Years of Small Practiced Moments
27:41 – Selling Health Literacy to the Public
28:04 – Rosa's Book: Speak Up Start Now & the Nurse as Translator
29:10 – When a Patient Hears a Diagnosis: The Voice Fades Out
30:12 – Asking "What's On Your Mind Right Now?" in Clinical Settings
30:53 – A Doctor Who Relearned Storytelling
31:14 – Francis Collins on the NIH's Biggest Regret
32:28 – Transparency in Public Health Messaging
33:29 – The Billion-Dollar Question
33:45 – Mental Health: The Pandemic We Don't Treat Like One
34:35 – Family-Based Therapy & Back-to-Basics for Children
35:18 – Children Separated from Nature
36:01 – Psychedelics, Family Healing & What Comes First
36:26 – Phones Away: The Power of One-on-One Time
37:05 – A Mother's Meditation Changed Her Daughter's Life
37:54 – Not Buying It: The Book
38:22 – Find Hamid: LinkedIn & thelinusgroup.com
38:50 – Closing & Follow Nurse Rosa Speaks
📚 Resources Mentioned
Not Buying It: The Art of Selling to Scientists, Doctors, and Other Professional Skeptics — Hamid Ghanadan
Speak Up Start Now — Rosa Hart
The Linus Group: thelinusgroup.com
Connect with Hamid on LinkedIn
Follow Rosa: @NurseRosaSpeaks
🎙️ About the ShowNurse Rosa's Insights explores healthcare from every angle, interviewing the stakeholders, thinkers, and changemakers shaping the future of health. Subscribe wherever you listen, and leave a review if this episode made you think differently.
View all episodes
By Rosa HartWhat if the reason people don't trust healthcare isn't the science- it's the communication? Rosa Hart sits down with Hamid Ghanadan, behavioral strategist, researcher, and author of Not Buying It, to explore why science and healthcare have a usability problem - and what communicators, clinicians, and companies can do about it.
From the neuroscience of decision-making to the Space Shuttle Challenger to vaccine hesitancy and children's mental health, Hamid and Rosa cover what it really takes to communicate in a way that moves people. Ethically, effectively, and humanly.
⏱ Episode Chapters
00:00 – Introduction & Guest Welcome
00:22 – Hamid's Background: From Bench to Behavioral Strategy
01:27 – Healthcare & Science Have a Usability Problem
02:26 – Market Research, Strategy & the Linus Group
03:00 – Patterns of Top Science Communicators
03:13 – The Role-Play Problem: Titles vs. Humans
04:09 – Priming: Why "I'm Just Looking" Is Never True
04:44 – Why Scientific Jargon Backfires at Conferences
05:22 – Emotions in Decision-Making: It's Biology, Not Strategy
05:29 – The Neuroscience: Logic Alone Cannot Drive Action
06:04 – The Frontal Cortex vs. the Amygdala
06:29 – Communication That Moves People to Act
06:52 – Storytelling: A Technology Co-Evolved With the Human Brain
07:13 – When Storytelling at a Conference Got a Doctor Shut Down
07:39 – Healthy Skepticism as a Clinician's Superpower
08:10 – Lead With Curiosity, Not Data
08:54 – The Right Communication Sequence: Curiosity → Facts
09:35 – Putting Data Too Early Spikes Skepticism
09:58 – Does Scientist-to-Scientist Selling Work?
11:20 – Facts Alone Never Close a Sale
11:46 – Persuasion vs. Manipulation: Drawing the Line
11:56 – How Social Media Algorithms Exploit Decision-Making
12:50 – Ethical Influence: The School Lunch Experiment
13:27 – When Good Communication Is a Public Service
14:14 – Space Shuttle Challenger: A Catastrophic Communication Failure
15:39 – Having the Right Data Is Not Enough
16:00 – Hamid's Personal Story: Not Understanding the Science He Studied
16:42 – Open Access Is Only the First Rung
17:45 – Stop Thinking About How to Teach; Think About How People Learn
18:39 – Start With Their Question, Not Yours
19:19 – Why Asking More Questions Predicts Better Outcomes
20:29 – Hamid's Two Questions for Rosa
21:34 – What Drives Rosa to Keep Podcasting
22:18 – Curiosity, Ideas & Grandparents' Theological Conversations
23:13 – Rosa's Week: Nurse Con at Sea & Family Before the Trip
24:55 – Online Highlight Reels Are Not Real Time
25:52 – Hamid: Posting for Content, Not Attention
26:00 – How Long It Took to Write the Book (A Hard Question to Answer)
26:47 – Building a Book from Years of Small Practiced Moments
27:41 – Selling Health Literacy to the Public
28:04 – Rosa's Book: Speak Up Start Now & the Nurse as Translator
29:10 – When a Patient Hears a Diagnosis: The Voice Fades Out
30:12 – Asking "What's On Your Mind Right Now?" in Clinical Settings
30:53 – A Doctor Who Relearned Storytelling
31:14 – Francis Collins on the NIH's Biggest Regret
32:28 – Transparency in Public Health Messaging
33:29 – The Billion-Dollar Question
33:45 – Mental Health: The Pandemic We Don't Treat Like One
34:35 – Family-Based Therapy & Back-to-Basics for Children
35:18 – Children Separated from Nature
36:01 – Psychedelics, Family Healing & What Comes First
36:26 – Phones Away: The Power of One-on-One Time
37:05 – A Mother's Meditation Changed Her Daughter's Life
37:54 – Not Buying It: The Book
38:22 – Find Hamid: LinkedIn & thelinusgroup.com
38:50 – Closing & Follow Nurse Rosa Speaks
📚 Resources Mentioned
Not Buying It: The Art of Selling to Scientists, Doctors, and Other Professional Skeptics — Hamid Ghanadan
Speak Up Start Now — Rosa Hart
The Linus Group: thelinusgroup.com
Connect with Hamid on LinkedIn
Follow Rosa: @NurseRosaSpeaks
🎙️ About the ShowNurse Rosa's Insights explores healthcare from every angle, interviewing the stakeholders, thinkers, and changemakers shaping the future of health. Subscribe wherever you listen, and leave a review if this episode made you think differently.