It was a special treat to record a conversation with one of my best friends and one of the best men in the world, the incomparable J.E.!!! Raised in the deep south, J.E. talks about his faith and how growing up in the buckle of the Bible Belt was complicated by the marginalization of being Black and gay in the Missionary Baptist Church. With a few giggles along the way, J.E. introduces McKinley to what it's like to grow up as "the visitor" in church, how he's learned to reclaim prayer and connection, and how the white and Black experience of America plays out on Sunday mornings. Also, we talk about culture, Uncle Ben's Rice, and what the perfect church looks and feels like. Join us!