Christopher Mercer  Interview

One woman's passion to protect basic human rights.

Interview with Barbara Handschu, Family Lawyer

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My guest today is New York family lawyer Barbara Handschu, who I have invited to speak with me today not only because of the fact that she has had an outstanding family law career and has contributed greatly to the practice of family law, but also because Barbara has been an activist for change.  We’ll be talking with her as a family lawyer, but also as a criminal lawyer and as an activist.

Before we get started, I want to give you just a brief little history about Barbara’s background.  She has been very active in both the national and state bar associations.  She was the first female national president of the American Academy of Matrimonial Lawyers, a prestigious family law group with about 1,700 lawyers across the US, and she’s one of the most respected family lawyers.  In researching who to interview next Barbara’s name has come up a number of times, and I’m glad to have finally grabbed a hold of her.

To start at the beginning, Barbara, what got you interested and how did you get into the practice of law?

Well, anyone who knows me knows that if you say I can’t do something, that’s going to be the incentive enough for me to do it.  In fact, in 1963 I had just about finished an undergraduate degree in 2½ years at NYU and was getting ready to figure out what I’d do with the rest of my life.  I had a political theory major, which I decided was probably worthless because women weren’t getting college teaching degrees even if they could obtain a PhD.  And then I said, “well, maybe I’ll go to law school” and everyone looked at me and said, “no, you can’t go to law school, there’s not going to be a job for you, you’re going to be taking a guy’s spot.”  I had trouble getting money to attend law school, but thankfully the University of Michigan gave me money and I was able to go.  So I went basically because I was told I wasn’t supposed to go.

That was enough of an incentive?

That was the absolute incentive, and I arrived in Michigan to discover that I couldn’t live in the law quadrangle where all the law students lived because I was a female and we were six women out of almost 350 in my class.

Wow.

So there was one of us in each and every section, and needless to say that one woman would always get called on for big questions like the rape case in criminal law.

I learned those lessons very quickly, but I adored the law.  To me it was just fascinating to think about any issue from both sides and to be able to come up with arguments for them and just grapple with the concepts.  So I decided being a lawyer was good now.  Of course, back in those days (and I finished law school in 1966), I was told when I said I want to be a trial lawyer, “No.  You’re too little, and besides women are only going to be able to do corporate law or estates.”  And I said that’s not fun.  I don’t want to be a lawyer if I can’t help people, if I can’t make a difference in this world.  And if you think back to the 1960s they were incredibly exciting times.  It was the beginning of the second wave of feminism, and the anti-war movement actually started at the University of Michigan with the first sit-in. Concepts of racial equality were being hard-fought all over the country and to me these were important issues, so I decided I was going to be a people’s lawyer as quickly as I could.  That’s what compelled me into the practice of law and what made me think about being a lawyer.

So while you were challenged by people saying that you wouldn’t get to be a lawyer-

A trial lawyer.

A trial lawyer.  You probably would have been in the background.  Female lawyers at that time would have been doing the paperwork and the research.

Women were not even being hired on that level.  Basically, women were being hired by corporations or to do es

Moving forward while still taking the time to pause, relax, and look back.

Interview with Mike McCurley, Family Lawyer

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My guest today is Dallas Texas Family Lawyer Mike McCurley, whom I have invited to speak with me today not only because of the fact that he has an outstanding family law career and has greatly contributed to the practice of family law, but also because Mike and his family lawyer wife, Mary Johanna McCurley, have really taken the time to design their lives in relation to their practice to help them achieve more balance and harmony.

I know both Mike and Mary Johanna personally and think highly of them, and I wanted Mike to share some of his insights on what he has done to help them achieve this balance.  But before we get started, let me begin with a bit of background about Mike McCurley.

He is Board Certified in Family Law by the Texas Board of Legal Specialization.  He has garnered recognition from professional organizations in the community, and was recognized in 2002 as Texas' top family lawyer in Texas Lawyernewspaper, which is published every five years, and he ranked among the top five again in 2007.  In 2001 he earned the prestigious Sam Emison Award for outstanding contribution to the practice of family law from the Texas Academy of Family Law Specialists.

He has earned recognition on every Texas Super Lawyers list since they began in 2003, including recognition among the Top 100 Lawyers in Texas and Top 100 Lawyers in Dallas-Fort Worth.  He was also recognized by Worth magazine for high net worth people as one of the Top 100 Lawyers, not just among family lawyers but all top lawyers in the US.

He has earned multiple honors by D Magazine as one of the top divorce lawyers in Dallas, and as one of Lawdragon's 500 Leading Lawyers in America.  Additionally, he has been recognized in Best Lawyers in America, Best Lawyers in Texas, Who's Who in the World, Who's Who in American Law, and in the Forbes, Town & Country, and Voguemagazines.  Mike’s executive-style leadership at the firm has also been the focus of a profile in D CEO Magazine.

In 2010 and 2011 Mike was invited to participate in Renaissance Weekends.  Bringing together preeminent authorities and noted innovators in their fields of expertise from around the country, these invitation-only retreats are dedicated to personal and national renewal.  Mike is a sought-after source for reporters looking for expert analysis on family law matters, and he serves as a frequent resource for some of the nation’s leading print, broadcast and electronic media outlets, including the Associated Press, Dallas Morning News, Houston Chronicle, USA Today, New York Daily News, andChicago Tribune, as well as on programs such as Good Morning Texas.

As a lecturer, Mike has also spoken on family law matters across the United States and internationally, and has authored a number of papers and publications on every aspect of family law and trial techniques.  You can find a good number of articles Mike and his partners and associates have written on for lawyer magazines.  He was one of the 30 people who was and still is contributing to the family law magazine.  You can learn more about Mike and his firm, McCurley Orsinger McCurley Nelson & Downing, on their website, www.momnd.com

I feel like we’re halfway done with this interview, Mike because we've taken up all our time listing the recognitions you’ve earned, and which I know you’ve deserved.  Let’s just start back in the beginning and tell people how you got interested in the practice of family law, how it all started.

Well, actually, I got all my teaching from when I got divorced myself in 1973.  It was at a time earlier on, when I was still a business lawyer.  Going through the divorce myself I was not very impressed with what I saw available to help me deal with divorce and adjust with the situation.

Moving forward while still taking the time to pause, relax, and look back.

Interview with Mike McCurley, Family Lawyer

Click the play button, wait a few seconds and start listening to this Podcast.

My guest today is Dallas Texas Family Lawyer Mike McCurley, whom I have invited to speak with me today not only because of the fact that he has an outstanding family law career and has greatly contributed to the practice of family law, but also because Mike and his family lawyer wife, Mary Johanna McCurley, have really taken the time to design their lives in relation to their practice to help them achieve more balance and harmony.

I know both Mike and Mary Johanna personally and think highly of them, and I wanted Mike to share some of his insights on what he has done to help them achieve this balance.  But before we get started, let me begin with a bit of background about Mike McCurley.

He is Board Certified in Family Law by the Texas Board of Legal Specialization.  He has garnered recognition from professional organizations in the community, and was recognized in 2002 as Texas' top family lawyer in Texas Lawyernewspaper, which is published every five years, and he ranked among the top five again in 2007.  In 2001 he earned the prestigious Sam Emison Award for outstanding contribution to the practice of family law from the Texas Academy of Family Law Specialists.

He has earned recognition on every Texas Super Lawyers list since they began in 2003, including recognition among the Top 100 Lawyers in Texas and Top 100 Lawyers in Dallas-Fort Worth.  He was also recognized by Worth magazine for high net worth people as one of the Top 100 Lawyers, not just among family lawyers but all top lawyers in the US.

He has earned multiple honors by D Magazine as one of the top divorce lawyers in Dallas, and as one of Lawdragon's 500 Leading Lawyers in America.  Additionally, he has been recognized in Best Lawyers in America, Best Lawyers in Texas, Who's Who in the World, Who's Who in American Law, and in the Forbes, Town & Country, and Voguemagazines.  Mike’s executive-style leadership at the firm has also been the focus of a profile in D CEO Magazine.

In 2010 and 2011 Mike was invited to participate in Renaissance Weekends.  Bringing together preeminent authorities and noted innovators in their fields of expertise from around the country, these invitation-only retreats are dedicated to personal and national renewal.  Mike is a sought-after source for reporters looking for expert analysis on family law matters, and he serves as a frequent resource for some of the nation’s leading print, broadcast and electronic media outlets, including the Associated Press, Dallas Morning News, Houston Chronicle, USA Today, New York Daily News, andChicago Tribune, as well as on programs such as Good Morning Texas.

As a lecturer, Mike has also spoken on family law matters across the United States and internationally, and has authored a number of papers and publications on every aspect of family law and trial techniques.  You can find a good number of articles Mike and his partners and associates have written on for lawyer magazines.  He was one of the 30 people who was and still is contributing to the family law magazine.  You can learn more about Mike and his firm, McCurley Orsinger McCurley Nelson & Downing, on their website, www.momnd.com

I feel like we’re halfway done with this interview, Mike because we've taken up all our time listing the recognitions you’ve earned, and which I know you’ve deserved.  Let’s just start back in the beginning and tell people how you got interested in the practice of family law, how it all started.

Well, actually, I got all my teaching from when I got divorced myself in 1973.  It was at a time earlier on, when I was still a business lawyer.  Going through the divorce myself I was not very impressed with what I saw available to help me deal with divorce and adjust with the situation.

How to grow a successful family law practice and be proud of your own work.

Interview with David Lee, Family Lawyer

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David is a partner in the Boston family law firm of Lee, Rivers and Corr.  He has been a Fellow of the American Academy of Matrimonial Lawyers since 1978, and a past president of the Massachusetts chapter of the American Academy of Matrimonial Lawyers.  David is also a former member of the National Board of Governors and a director of the American Academy Charitable Foundation.  Among numerous other accolades, almost too many too count, he has been a top super lawyer in Massachusetts, and recognized by both Boston Magazine and Lawdragon.  It is my pleasure to introduce a frequent speaker and author of articles in the area of family law on a variety of topics including divorce, tax law, business evaluation, stock options, retirement interests, and more, David Lee.  Welcome, and thank you for taking a few minutes to speak to me.

To start things off, how did you become interested in doing family law?  I guess beginning with studying and then moving on to actually being in practice.

Well, interestingly enough I never took a course in family law in law school.

Oh, really?

I had no intention of involving myself in the practice of family law.  My intention was, and I was hired by a firm out of law school for this, to do First Amendment appellate work.  I did this with the top lawyer in that field in Boston and within about a month of being at that firm a large divorce case came to one of the partners of that firm.  The person whom he had hired to begin as a new young associate was still on vacation before starting his job after law school and he asked whether or not I could be loaned for his use in the divorce case until the new associate was available.

So unbeknownst to me I was traded, and found it very interesting.  I then found out that because of the rapport that I had with this other lawyer I wasn’t traded back.

I see.  So he stole you. (laughs)

So early on I said I had better learn something about this stuff since it was what I was going to be doing, and I put my head down and tried to learn what I could about this area of law.

The point in time when I began to practice in this area of law was one where it wasn’t terribly intellectually focused.  Its principal focus was who could threaten the other more, who could yell louder, and who could intimidate the other side more.  I decided that wasn’t really the style that I wanted to have, and I wanted to learn about this area of law and bring it to a new dimension where it could be thought of with higher regard.  So I approached it that way and then decided that any time I did research and any time that I was asked to do any type of legal memorandum by the person for whom I worked I would write an article about it.  Within a short period of time, within about five years of my being in practice, I had written more articles about the area of family law in Massachusetts than almost anyone; the one person in the Boston area who had written more was about 20-25 years my senior.

So were you writing from the point of view of educating yourself about the subject or did you feel like you wanted to get the word out about how you thought the process could be better-handled?

Initially when I had the assignment given me to write something it was to educate myself and educate the judge or whoever the assignment was for.  But then later I saw that it was useful to share with the rest of the legal community a unique area of investigation that might be used by them as they pursued cases that might touch upon the same issues.

So I assume that back when you started it was fault divorce and that’s why you were talking about people basically bashing each other?

Yes.  No-fault divorce came into play later.  But nonetheless for a period of years, even w

One family lawyer's refusal to give up on his passion for the environment.

Interview with Grier Raggio, Family Lawyer

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I’m pleased today to be speaking with Grier Raggio who’s a Texas family lawyer.  He has been practicing family law since 1968.  He’s a Harvard college graduate, written numerous articles on family law, and also written two books; the most recent book is titled How to Divorce in New York.  Grier is well versed in Texas family law matters including divorce, child custody, and in dealing with large asset cases.  He has been selected to the list of Texas super lawyers on many occasions and he’s been selected as a Fellow of the American Academy of Matrimonial lawyers.  Grier has handled several international family law cases and international child custody cases.  I invited Grier to speak with me today about his family law career, but he is also a politician.  He ran as a Democratic candidate in the 2010 election for the United States House of Representatives seat in Texas’ 32ndcongressional district and he’s also very active in the environmental movement and has a website/blog calledweconsumetoomuch.com; his firm website is raggiolaw.com.

Let’s start with you telling us how you got started as a family lawyer and where that career has taken you.

In the 1960s I decided that environmental issues were going to be the most important thing for me for the remainder of my life.  I started doing environmental law when I started a firm in New York in ’71.  So I was doing environmental law and also making a living by doing plaintiffs’ personal injury stuff, which was very lucrative.  But in 1980 with the rejection of Jimmy Carter and the solar panels on the White House I decided to quit bumping my head against that environmental wall for a while; I also didn’t feel like what I was doing as a plaintiff’s personal injury lawyer was really very useful.  New York had changed its law at that time and it adopted an equitable distribution system.  I have two friends, Henry Foster and Doris Reed, who are nationally known legal scholars and they influenced me to start reading up on law and giving lectures on New York law.  That’s how I built a practice doing family law.

And were these lectures about family law or were they about any other specific area of law?

They were lectures about family law, mainly about the new law in New York, the Equitable Distribution Law.

Why was that of interest to you to talk about equitable distribution?

Like I said I’d been doing the plaintiff’s personal injury stuff and was making a lot of money, but I was working in what I felt was essentially a very negative system and didn’t feel that I was making any real contribution that was emotionally satisfying to me.  I felt that in family law I could both make a living and do something that was useful.

I made a conscious decision to become an expert in family law and got a break because they changed the (Equitable Distribution) law.  Because of this it was new to everybody, and by studying hard and lecturing people about it, I was able to build credibility among lawyers and laypeople.

So you had this feeling at your core that you have to be doing something that makes a difference.

One thing you learn at Harvard is that one must be useful.  I think a lot of us have that kind of motto.  You have to be doing something that you feel is useful emotionally as well as be able to make a living off of it.

You’re not just putting in time.

No.  Don’t want to just put in time.

Alright, so tell us how your career moved on from there.

Well, I was practicing family law in New York and got elected to the American Academy of Matrimonial Lawyers about as soon as I was eligible.  One of the first things I did in the Academy was get the Academy to start a divorce mediation group.  I assembled a faculty and we did trainings for grizzled o

A behind-the-scenes look at how private investigators collect legal evidence for the courtroom.

Interview with Rob Kimmons, Private Investigator

Judge Kathleen McCarthy speaks on why adequate preparation is vital for family lawyers heading to trial.