Part 2 of Episode 2 with Steve Smith, founder of Experiential Consulting and author of Beneficial Risks and Safety Science for Outdoor & Experiential Education.
In Part 1 of this two-part episode, Steve and George discussed a van incident on a muddy BLM road in Utah, the blame cycle, safety clutter, and the lingering effects of Taylorism.
Part 2 builds on those concepts. It opens with a question: immediately after an incident is not the moment to change your safety philosophy, so what can an organization do ahead of time to get out of the blame cycle?
From there: rules versus guidelines, why "safety is our top priority" is a platitude that sidesteps the real conversation, risk optimization, Safety-I and Safety-II, the zero-incident paradox, Boeing's 737 MAX and the Aviation Safety Reporting System, liability avoidance versus operational safety, and what an outdoor industry version of ASRS would need. Steve closes by flipping the microphone and asking George how safety science shapes Field Risk OS.
Clarification: In this episode George refers to the Aviation Safety Reporting System as an FAA tool. ASRS is funded by the FAA but administered by NASA as an independent third party.
Chapters:
00:00 Getting out of the blame cycle before the incident
03:24 Rules, policies, and guidelines: if everything is a policy, nothing is
04:48 Safety-I and Safety-II: we need both
06:26 Hire people for the brain in their head
07:54 Safety is not the mission: show me your budget
11:16 Risk optimization and the impromptu summit
14:24 Us and them in the backcountry
15:27 Sidney Dekker, Erik Hollnagel, and the new view of safety
19:58 A zero-incident philosophy and the zero paradox
23:39 Boeing MCAS and the Aviation Safety Reporting System
25:35 Why the ACMG's reporting system died
28:05 Liability avoidance versus operational safety
29:21 What an outdoor ASRS would need
32:22 The flip: how safety science shaped Field Risk OS
36:44 Learning from everyday work and the crab pot for institutional memory
39:42 Where to find Steve
You can find Steve and his team at outdoorrisk.com, where you can also learn about both books. Steve also hosts the Lucky or Good podcast.
Illustrations in this episode video are from Safety Science for Outdoor & Experiential Education.
Part 1: https://fieldriskos.com/field-debrief/blame-trust-steve-smith
Part 2, Show notes and transcript: https://fieldriskos.com/field-debrief/safety-ii-risk-optimization-steve-smith
All episodes: https://fieldriskos.com/field-debrief
Field Debrief is produced by Field Risk Systems LLC, the company behind Field Risk OS, The Operating System for Expedition Programs.