Have you ever wondered, “If this is what I'm called to do, why does it hurt so much?”

Work can shape us, stretch us, and give us purpose. But it can also leave us disappointed, disillusioned, discouraged, or devastated. And when our work is connected to our sense of calling, work hurt can feel deeply personal.

In this episode Lindsay connects with Meryl Herr, author of When Work Hurts, to talk about the pain we experience in our work and what faithfulness looks like in the middle of it.

Meryl helps us name the different ways work hurt shows up and invites us to consider how our work can become intertwined with our identity and our sense of worth. 

Takeaways

Episode field note: Meryl suggests we deal with our work hurt.

Chances are, you have work hurt. Take some time to reflect on your work hurt. What happened? What did it stir up in you? Try using the four categories we talked about (disappointment, disillusionment, devastation, and discouragement) to help you name what you've experienced. And then bring it to God.

Being a leader means going ahead of the people you're leading in the work of your own healing.

Resources and links

Meryl’s book: When Work Hurts

Meryl’s website: https://merylherr.com/                    

Follow SLI: @spiritualleadershipinc

Head to Spiritual Leadership, Inc to take a look at resources for ministry leaders. 

Summary

In this conversation, Pastor Wendy Hu-Au invites us into the story beneath the title—her unexpected and deeply formative journey into serving as senior pastor at Metro Hope Church. What emerges isn’t just a leadership story, but a picture of what happens when faith is lived in real community.

We talk about the early moments that shaped her, the people who formed her, and why she’s so drawn to the idea of microchurches—not as a strategy, but as a way of being with people. Wendy keeps bringing us back to this: transformation happens in proximity, in honest relationships, in showing up.

She names the tension of leadership with refreshing honesty—the vulnerability it requires, the questions it surfaces, and the courage it takes to stay open when easy answers aren’t there. And woven throughout is this quiet but steady conviction: the church has a role to play in pushing back against what diminishes people and partnering in what brings life.

Takeaways

Episode field note: Leading Without All the Answers

There’s a moment in leadership most people try to avoid, but most of us live in: I don’t know.

The world is not getting simpler. And leadership that depends on certainty is going to keep collapsing under the weight of real life.

Maybe faithful leadership isn’t about closing the gap between question and answer. Maybe it’s about becoming the kind of person who can stay in the gap—and not leave others there alone.

Resources and links

Hope Metro Church NYC

Apex for Youth                            

Follow SLI: @spiritualleadershipinc

Head to Spiritual Leadership, Inc to take a look at resources for ministry leaders. 

Summary

In this conversation, Ryan Tinetti invites us to reconsider ambition, moving away from pressure and performance toward something quieter and deeper. Through personal stories, Scripture, and lived wisdom, he offers a vision of life and leadership anchored in rest, shaped by humility and faithfulness over productivity.

Episode field note: Clarity Over Cleverness

When you’re leading change, resist the urge to be subtle. People don’t need hints, they need clear direction. Say it plainly, repeat it often, and make the path forward obvious. It may feel like over-communicating, but in moments of change, clarity is what helps people move.

Resources and links

Ryan’s Book: The Quiet Ambition (IvPress) 

Slow Productivity by Cal Newport 

Godspeed (Documentary) 

1 Thessalonians 4:11-12                        

Follow SLI: @spiritualleadershipinc

Head to Spiritual Leadership, Inc to take a look at resources for ministry leaders. 

Summary: 

We’ve normalized something that was never meant to be normal: leading alone. 

Rev. Dr. Eun K. Strawser invites us into a conversation about the gift of shared leadership. We talk about the ways we hold onto power, how our metrics are shaping the wrong outcomes, and why the environments we build may be working against the very transformation we long to see. What if shared leadership is exactly what the church was always meant to embody? 

Shared leadership isn’t just theory or a strategy. It’s biblical, practical, and transformational to the leader, the church and community. 

Takeaways

Episode field note: Take an honest inventory- Who do you actually share power with?

Most of us can answer that pretty quickly. And for many leaders, the answer is… we don’t. We may delegate tasks, but we’re not truly sharing power.

So the deeper question becomes: Who do you want to share power with and why?

Resources and links

Eun’s book: You Were Never Meant to Lead Alone: The Power of Sharing Leadership with IVPress

Eun’s website                 

Follow SLI: @spiritualleadershipinc

Head to Spiritual Leadership, Inc to take a look at resources for ministry leaders. 

In this episode, Dr. Angie Ward invites us into a rich conversation about leadership in uncharted place, where identity, and adaptive courage matter more than ever. She reflects on how her own journey has shaped the way she leads and teaches, and why the internal work of a leader is inseparable from the external work we’re called to do. We explore the shifting landscape of ministry and the kind of emotional intelligence leaders need to navigate change with wisdom and grace.

Takeaways

Episode field note: Do your inner work. 

Do your work so you can show up whole, honest and fully yourself in every space you lead. 

Resources and links:

Angie’s website  

Angie’s Book: Uncharted Leadership             

Follow SLI: @spiritualleadershipinc

Head to Spiritual Leadership, Inc to take a look at resources for ministry leaders. 

In this conversation, Michael Huerter opens up about his unexpected journey into worship and music ministry and the way hybrid worship is reshaping the life of the church. He names both the beauty and the tension of weaving technology into our worship practices—how we can use new tools without losing the human connections that make church feel like church.

Michael talks honestly about the challenges leaders face right now: the overwhelm of adapting to online spaces, the pressure to “keep up,” and the fear of getting it wrong. But he also points us toward the opportunities, for example, how music can create connection even through a screen, how creativity can build real community, and how relationships will always matter more than platforms.

Takeaways

Episode field note: Technology and online ministry aren’t replacing relationships but they’re deepening them and reminding us we’re not alone.

Even though the pace of new technology can feel overwhelming, this moment is also opening unexpected doors for connection and support in ministry. Online spaces, Zoom calls with mentors, glimpses into a friend’s worship service, shared creative work can actually strengthen the relationships we nurture in person. Instead of choosing between online and offline, we’re invited to see them as a hybrid whole and lean into the creativity, curiosity, and community this season makes possible.

Resources and links

Michael’s book: The Hybrid Congregation   

Follow Michael on Facebook                          

Follow SLI: @spiritualleadershipinc

Head to Spiritual Leadership, Inc to take a look at resources for ministry leaders. 

In this conversation, Alan Noble helps us name the weight we all feel in a world that tells us we must be everything on our own. Drawing from his book You Are Not Your Own, Alan invites us to imagine a different kind of freedom, one found not in limitless choice, but in belonging to a loving God. Alan talks about the exhaustion of modern life, the grace of limits, and the practices of gratitude and attention that can reorient us. This is a conversation about recovering our humanity and remembering that we were never meant to carry the world alone.

Takeaways:

Episode field note: Get to know someone really well

When we move beyond surface conversations and risk true connection, we start to see one another as we are, not as we present ourselves to be. That kind of knowing creates room for compassion, for shared humanity, for healing.

Bearing each other’s burdens isn’t about fixing what’s broken. It’s about standing close enough to feel the weight and say, “You’re not alone in this.”

Resources and links:

Alan’s website

Alan’s book w/ IvPress

Follow SLI: @spiritualleadershipinc

This episode is brought to you by Spiritual Leadership, Inc

Head to spiritual-leadership.org to take a look at resources for ministry leaders. 

In this episode, Bishop Geoffrey Dudley shares what it takes to lead through the storms of life and ministry. Drawing from his experiences in both the military and the church, he talks about calling, resilience, and the connection between leadership and mental health. This conversation explores what authentic leadership looks like when you’re navigating real challenges, for example, crafting vision, managing the movement, and building teams that can bend without breaking.

Takeaways

Episode field note: Get to know you

“Set aside time for self-reflection and get to know you.

He already knows you. He fearfully and wonderfully made you. But when you begin to know you, that’s when He can really start working with you.”

Before you can lead others, you have to sit with your own story. Like Jacob, we wrestle with identity, with the question God still asks: Who are you?

Resources and links

Bishop Dudley’s website

Book: Leading Through Storms with IvPress

Follow Bishop Dudley on socials: 

                 YouTube

                 Instagram: @bishopdudleyphd

                 Facebook

Follow SLI: @spiritualleadershipinc

This episode is brought to you by Spiritual Leadership, Inc

Head to spiritual-leadership.org to take a look at resources for ministry leaders. 

In this conversation, Dr. Erin Devers discusses the concept of bias, its implications for self-perception and leadership, and the importance of understanding our identity. She emphasizes the role of confirmation bias in decision-making and the need for leaders to cultivate humility. Erin also explores the intersection of faith and bias research, highlighting how community can either amplify or reduce bias. 

Takeaways

Episode field note: The easiest way to cultivate humility is to communicate clearly

Erin suggests adding probabilities to your decision making, being honest about where you are - for example, “I’m 80% confident that we should go in this direction.” This approach can help build trust and fosters connection. 

Resources and links

Erin’s website

Erin’s Book: The Unbiased Self                               

Follow SLI: @spiritualleadershipinc

Head to Spiritual Leadership, Inc to take a look at resources for ministry leaders. 

In this conversation, Ron shares the story of his own call to ministry, the early influences that shaped him, and the lessons he’s in almost 40 years of leading La Croix Church. We dive into what it means to build a healthy church culture, the power of storytelling to draw people into God’s bigger story, and why developing leaders is always worth the risk of giving away ownership, and even letting them learn through failure. As Ron looks toward retirement, he reflects on the hope that drives him: raising up disciples who wholeheartedly follow Jesus.

Takeaways

Episode field note: Stay open to God’s stretching work

Ron reminds us that growth is a lifelong posture. That kind of hunger to learn, to receive feedback, to stay open to God’s stretching work, even when it’s uncomfortable. 

Resources and links

La Croix website: lacroixchurch.org

La Croix on socials: Facebook

                                  Instagram

                                  YouTube                                    

Follow SLI: @spiritualleadershipinc

Head to Spiritual Leadership, Inc to take a look at resources for ministry leaders.