Finding Zen with Michael Pottern

Episode Theme:

Devotion - Breathwork, forgiveness, and frequency. Claudia shares how embodied healing and devotion reshape daily life, parenting, and nervous-system regulation.

In this episode of Finding Zen, Michael sits down with Claudia Nannino for a deeply human conversation about breathwork, embodied healing, and the quiet power of devotion. Claudia shares her personal journey through addiction, self-forgiveness, and nervous-system repair, and how practices like conscious breathwork, altered states, and community helped her move from intellectual insight into true emotional integration. 

Together, they explore frequency as a way of making choices, the difference between discipline and devotion, and what it means to parent, heal, and live with greater presence. This episode is an invitation to slow down, breathe, and reconnect with the wisdom of the body.

Key Takeaways

1. Healing happens when it moves from the mind into the body.

2. Breathwork can access emotional release and altered states without substances.

3. Forgiveness becomes possible when guilt and shame are felt and released, not forced.

4. Devotion, not discipline, creates sustainable healing and daily practice.

5. Frequency can serve as a body-based compass for decision-making and setting boundaries.

6. Small, consistent practices regulate the nervous system more than big breakthroughs.

7. Conscious parenting begins with self-regulation and presence, not control.

This episode is not about answers. It is about listening more closely to the body, trusting sensation as information, and remembering that wisdom often speaks before words do.

Claudia Nannino is a master breathwork facilitator, crystal curator, and guide to non-ordinary states of consciousness whose work is rooted in deep embodiment and lived experience. A Colorado native born to immigrant parents, her path into healing was catalyzed by a profound personal reckoning after returning to Denver in 2016, leading her away from traditional, logic-driven approaches and toward heart-centered, nontraditional modalities. Through Conscious Breathwork, extensive trauma-informed training, and a 250+ hour apprenticeship with Christian de la Huerta, Claudia found true integration and self-forgiveness, ultimately leaving her corporate career to serve others. She has since guided thousands of breathwork journeys worldwide and now trains facilitators through her own comprehensive apprenticeship program, holding devotion, reverence, and nervous-system safety at the core of her work.

Connect with Claudia:

• Amarsi - Claudia’s website with upcoming events, retreats, & apprenticeshipshttps://www.amarsi.love/

• Claudia’s Instagramhttps://www.instagram.com/clauditanow/ 

Amarsi Crystalshttps://www.amarsicrystals.com/ 

Resources & External References Mentioned

• The Body Keeps the Score – Bessel van der Kolk https://www.besselvanderkolk.com/resources/the-body-keeps-the-score

• Healthline – Breathwork Explained (Science + Benefits) https://www.healthline.com/health/breathwork

• Breathwork & Altered States of Consciousness (Research) https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fnhum.2020.00170/full

• How Trauma Is Stored in the Body (Cleveland Clinic) https://health.clevelandclinic.org/how-trauma-is-stored-in-the-body/

• Interoception (Listening to the Body) https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/basics/interoception

• Devotion as a Spiritual Practice (Lion’s Roar) https://www.lionsroar.com/what-is-devotion/

• Polyvagal Institute (Nervous System Regulation)

https://www.polyvagalinstitute.org/ 

Four free, curated wellness tools designed to support grounding, regulation, and everyday presence.https://explore.denverzenden.com/podcast-gifts-episode-3 

Episode Sponsor – Denver Zen Den – We help people regulate their nervous system using light, sound, and vibration.

• Website: https://www.denverzenden.com

• Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/denverzenden/ 

• Purchase our technology: https://www.mindwave.biz/ 

• YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@denverzenden 

Episode Theme:

Guardian - A powerful exploration of guardianship, integrity under pressure, and how human-first leadership can transform policing, heal trauma, and restore trust within strained systems.

Episode Description

In this deeply personal and systems-level conversation, Michael Pottern sits down with Sarko Gergerian, a police lieutenant and licensed therapist, to explore the evolution from “officer” to guardian. Together, they examine how trust, presence, and public-health-oriented approaches can transform policing, support first responders, and reopen pathways to healing through ethical access, spiritual sovereignty, and human-first leadership.

Key Takeaways

1. Guardianship is not about power or status, but the responsibility to protect what is vulnerable and meaningful.

2. Integrity is revealed under pressure, when fear is present, and doing the right thing comes at a real cost.

3. Trauma is embedded in systems as much as individuals, requiring healing that addresses cultures and institutions, not just personal resilience.

4. Authority without moral legitimacy erodes trust and turns leadership into control rather than stewardship.

5. Ritual and meaning are essential for those who hold chaos, and without them, burnout and moral injury take root.

6. True healing requires courage to face uncomfortable truths, not comfort or avoidance.

7. Ethical guardianship begins with self-regulation, grounding leadership in nervous system awareness and self-honesty.

This episode is not about ideology. It is about guardianship, trust, and remembering that systems can evolve when humans are placed back at the center.

Sarko’s Bio - Lt. Sarko Gergerian, MS, MA, is a law enforcement professional, clinician, and scholar whose work bridges public safety, depth psychology, and ethical leadership. A lieutenant in a Massachusetts police department, he co-founded the nationally recognized CLEAR (Community & Law Enforcement Assisted Recovery) methodology, integrating trauma-informed policing with recovery-oriented care. He holds graduate degrees in Clinical Mental Health Counseling and Depth/Analytical Psychology, is published in peer-reviewed venues, and speaks nationally and internationally with the Law Enforcement Action Partnership (LEAP), including an appearance on The Joe Rogan Experience (#2357). 

Sarko is the founder of F.R.E.E. Gaia, supporting first responders’ spiritual-religious access to entheogenic sacraments under constitutional and RFRA protections, and serves as a teaching assistant with the SoundMind Institute’s psychedelic facilitator training program. His work honors Western, Indigenous, and emergent ways of knowing in service of healing, human dignity, and regenerative leadership; the views expressed are his own.

Sarko’s Contact Info

• Sarko Gergerian - LinkedInhttps://www.linkedin.com/in/sarko-gergerian-818967233/

• How To Change Your Mind MiniSeries - Netflixhttps://www.imdb.com/title/tt21062540/ 

• Upcoming Documentary - Ecstatic: Psychedelics, Drugs, and Therapyhttps://vimeo.com/1146052014/f051773016 

Episode Links - Resources & External References Mentioned

• International Association of Chiefs of Police

https://www.theiacp.org 

• Community & Law Enforcement Assisted Recovery (CLEAR)

https://www.paariusa.org 

• Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies

https://maps.org 

• Rick Doblin - Founder of MAPShttps://lnk.bio/rickdoblinphd 

• Colorado Natural Medicine Health Act

https://dpo.colorado.gov/NaturalMedicine 

• Illuminating Heroes

https://illuminatingheroes.org 

We’ve also included a link to 4 free, curated wellness tools designed to support grounding, regulation, and presence.

https://explore.denverzenden.com/podcast-gifts-episode-2  

Sponsor – Denver Zen Den – We help people regulate their nervous system using light, sound, and vibration.

• Website: https://www.denverzenden.com

• Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/denverzenden/ 

• Purchase our technology: https://www.mindwave.biz/ 

• YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@denverzenden 

Episode Theme: Trust

VR. AI. Psychedelics. Death. This episode explores how trust, not technology, is the true gateway to healing and connection.

In this episode of Finding Zen, Michael Pottern sits down with Jeremy Nickel to explore how trust forms the invisible architecture beneath spiritual practice, technology-mediated connection, and psychedelic-assisted healing. From VR meditation and the Overview Effect to AI-guided integration and modern facilitation, the conversation examines how trust in self, systems, and one another creates the conditions for safety, vulnerability, and transformation. This wide-ranging dialogue invites listeners into a deeper look at how we design containers that allow presence, awe, and healing to emerge naturally, without force.

Key Takeaways

1. Technology can reveal presence, not replace it, when designed to reduce distance and invite genuine human connection.

2. Honesty emerges when people feel safe, supported by clear boundaries, consent, and thoughtfully held containers.

3. True surrender arises not from chaos, but from a structure that allows the nervous system to relax.

4. Lasting transformation depends more on preparation and integration than on the intensity of the peak experience itself.

5. Anonymity, when designed with care, can unlock deeper authenticity by removing fear of judgment.

6. Zen is a practice of intention, requiring stillness and clarity to be actively chosen and protected in daily life.

7. The future of Zen lies in human-centered design that uses technology to honor trust, sovereignty, and what is fundamentally sacred.

   
   

   Jeremy Nickel is a tech and spiritual entrepreneur and Unitarian Universalist minister whose work lives at the intersection of immersive technology, contemplative practice, and psychedelic-assisted healing. With a background in VR development and leadership within wellness-focused technology companies, he explores how tools like AI and virtual reality can be used not for escape, but for presence, insight, and genuine human connection. 

   Rooted in a lifelong meditation practice and a justice-oriented, theologically spacious ministry, Jeremy brings a deeply human lens to altered states, preparation, and integration, emphasizing safety, consent, and relational trust. A founder and community builder, he collaborates with clinicians, technologists, artists, and spiritual leaders to create experiences that honor both mystery and responsibility, guided by a belief that healing happens in relationship and that technology, when shaped by humility and care, can serve as a sacred tool for meaningful transformation.

   Connect with Jeremy

   • KetReady – AI-powered ketamine preparation & integrationhttps://ketready.com

   • SomaQuest – Jeremy Nickel’s new businesshttps://www.linkedin.com/in/jeremy-nickel/ 

   • Jeremy Nickel’s LinkedInhttps://www.linkedin.com/in/jeremy-nickel

   • Jeremy’s Substackhttps://open.substack.com/pub/jeremynickel/p/no-pill-big-wonder-my-journey-into 

   
   

   Resources & External References Mentioned

   • Overview Effect Short Filmhttps://vimeo.com/55073825 

   • Frank White – Originator of The Overview Effecthttps://overviewinstitute.org

   • VRChat – Platform hosting The Overview Effect experiencehttps://www.patreon.com/posts/overview-effect-92287857 

   • TRIPP – VR wellness and meditation platformhttps://www.tripp.com

   • California Institute of Integral Studies (CIIS)https://www.ciis.edu

   • InterTrek (Portland, OR)https://intertrek.org

   
   

   We’ve also included a link to four free, curated wellness tools designed to support grounding, regulation, and everyday presence.

   https://explore.denverzenden.com/podcast-gifts-episode-1  

   Episode Sponsor – Denver Zen Den – We help people regulate their nervous system using light, sound, and vibration.
   

   • Website: https://www.denverzenden.com

   • Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/denverzenden/ 

   • Purchase our technology: https://www.mindwave.biz/ 

   • YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@denverzenden