Fire Code Tech

Welcome to episode 50 of Fire Code Tech! This podcast is a cross over episode with the host of the Fire Science Show Wojciech Węgrzyński. The conversation covers background stories for both podcast hosts, problems with the industry and how to bridge the gap between problems in industry. 

1925 Building Code Link: Check page 19

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Fire Science Show

https://www.firescienceshow.com/

Transcription

Hello, all welcome to the show. I'm Gus Gagliardi, and this is fire code tech on fire code tech. We interview fire protection professionals from all different careers and backgrounds in order to provide insight and a resource for those in the field. My goal is to help you become a more informed fire protection.

Professional fire code tech has interviews with engineers and researchers, fire marshals, and insurance professionals, and highlights topics like codes and standards, engineering systems, professional development, and trending topics in the industry. So if you're someone who wants to know more about fire protection or the fascinating stories of those who are in the field, you're in the right place, uh, welcome to episode 50 fire code.

In this episode, we got a special theme for you. It's a crossover episode with wojak Gudinski of the fire science show. Yes, we're doing a crossover episode today and it was a lot of fun. Wanna celebrate our two year anniversary on the fire code text show, and just say that so excited to keep producing content and releasing, um, new and original ideas.

Just content for people in fire and life safety. So thank you guys for listening. I really do appreciate it. I say that all the time, but it is sincere. Yep. So hope you enjoyed this episode with ack. We're going to get into professional development. My background, his background, a little bit of conversation about how the industry is trending and where we can develop content.

And so much more really enjoyed this episode with Woj. Think it is a phenomenal all star podcast. Hope you enjoy. Don't forget to subscribe to the fire science show and fire code tech. And if you want any of the links or topics that we talk about in the episode, you can check the, uh, show notes, notes.

Hello, everybody. Welcome to the fire science code tech show. I'm here with, uh, my friend and cohos Gadi. Hi guys. Hey, thanks for having me on the podcast, Jack, excited to be speaking with you. Thanks for having me on your podcast, cuz I'm really excited to be in your show as well because that's a crossover episode of fireside show and Farco tech I'm really happy to that's right.

Be here. So guys, you are the first one I've actually joined your show sometime ago. That was my first experience speaking and that was on the radio. And. Pretty cool. That was like a year ago and a lot has changed for me, but how's the time going for you? How was the experience building a podcast oriented around fire engineering for you?

Man? It's been so fun and yeah, it's been really fun for me to watch you get some, you know, success and just like people viewing and getting to see what you're doing. But for me, it's. I've been having so much fun professionally and with fire code tech, uh, the last year has been a lot of career building.

Just started a new role for a new fire protection engineering firm. And yeah, so working on building the podcast and still trying to get great guests and. Dream big about what kind of content and different pieces of media that I can produce for the field. For me, I'm always excited. I think I'm easily excitable, but yeah, it's been fun.

Been building. Yeah. I, I think for myself, when I make this, I, I make it as much for my audience as for myself and try to learn as, as much as I can go. That was the thing that made me start the show in the first thing to learn as much from the best people I can find around. And for you, the twist in your career, uh, you've developed a lot in last year, I guess it was as, as valuable to learn while sharing.

Yeah. I mean, yeah, same for me. I. Started the podcast because I was early in my career and I'd kind of reached a plateau where yeah. I wanted to learn more and there was like kind of a set track of how I could develop and that wasn't fast enough for me. And mm-hmm . So I wanted to reach out to people selfishly and pick their brain on different technical topics and professional development topics, and really kind of grow as a professional.

and for me, it was just like, when it worked it 10 times better than I thought it would, honestly, for the social part of it and for the professional and technical part of it. So, yeah, similar, similar thing, which I fantastic. I think the important part of our job in running our shows is to infect the mind of young engineers with some really solid.

Engineering. And we are both a similar age. We, we both have joined commercial activities, engineering activities, and I must tell you when I join engineering, my view over the world of fire engineering and the. Problems in the world of fire engineering was, uh, so different than what I see today after the year of, of doing this show.

And you are doing it for more than a year. And by, by the way, you've always asked people to tell their story in your show. What's your story, man? I, I, I don't think I've heard that one. yeah, so I started. And, uh, got my degree at Oklahoma state university grew up in Edmond, Oklahoma. That's in the center of the country just right above Texas.

I always tell people when I'm out of the country, cuz Oklahoma's a much less known, grew up in Edmond, went to school at Oklahoma state, got a degree in fire protection and safety technology. So it went to school for fire protection. Some people are surprised by. Graduated with my degree and went to work for a fire suppression contracting company, fire suppression.

So I got to see, yeah, I got to see the nuts and bolts of how sprinkler systems are put together and do hydraulic calculations and design just north of Oklahoma in Nebraska. So was in Omaha for about a. I learned a lot and it's been a big impact to this day on the hydraulics and, and kind of the, the fine tune.

Some engineers, they always stay high level systems and they never get down into the nuts and bolts. So for me, that's a valuable piece of my puzzle and figuring out how those systems work, move back to Oklahoma city, where I got a job in fire protection engineering. And yeah, I worked for a firm FSB for about four and a half years.

And yeah, really saw a wide variety of projects, aviation projects. I worked on a lot of aircraft hangers and department of defense jobs. I probably, you know, I was involved in about six or seven or eight flight simulators for a variety of Aircrafts local jobs, national jobs. I did work across the country everywhere from San Diego, all the way to LA guard.

So I got to see a wide variety of fire protection across the nation in that role, and really everything from like high expansion foam systems to hazardous materials and their storage and high industrial use cases. So that was where I really cut my teeth as an engineer mm-hmm and learned what does it mean to problem solve and to really be code compliant and to.

Solve problems on a national level and with a variety of authorities having jurisdiction. And so, yeah, started the podcast in 2020, April, 2020. So almost two years now. So was at kind of a two, three year step into my career and really just gained enough competency to realize how much, I didn't know. And then got this new role with just working with a couple other fire protection engineers that are really small firm.

There's only three of us and we're in Edmond again, close to where I grew up. So now working on hangers, still working on a variety of DOD and commercial projects and getting to learn a lot more about the business side of things and project management and a wider variety of fire protection engineering.

That's really my story. That's a proper engineering career. And I think a lot of the people can relate to that in both of our audiences. That that's what you do. You finish your course where you probably have received quite wide knowledge from the fire safety. And I assume. In many places, it will, uh, be different in my school.

We were strongly experiencing the firefighter tactics and stuff like that because it was firefighter's academy. And, uh, actually almost nons smoke control, which kind of ended up hilarious because I became a smoke control expert, but that that's, that was twisting the career. But you've mentioned like you go down on, when you exit this school, when you exit this wide world of, of learning from every side of fire and engineering, you suddenly find yourself in the, this hole of doing nuts and bolts of your systems.

And. Oh man, I've been there as well. I, I I've started learning about smoke control. Then I've started designing them. Then I've started doing CD for them. And three years into my professional career, I knew everything about shopping, more smoke control. That was my bread and butter. But, but then if I look from, to that experience from my today's eyes, from my today's knowledge, Even just taking my academic career aside, even just from the podcast view where again, I am exploring the broad ocean of fire.

I, I start wondering like, how do we sustain, you know, this connection for young engineers, with the broad context of fire, are we in a wrong way, building them a silos where they just go down the rabbit hole of designing one type of system. They become super expert like in hydraulic calculations, but maybe they don't know that much about evacuation.

And then in 10 years they will forget everything they've learned at the school, like how we preserve this environ. Where people are exposed to white fire science. Well, obviously don't tell me you start podcast because I will not take that answer. yeah. Well, I was gonna start off with the self congratulating answer of, uh, we're doing something here to help promote, but, you know, I think it's interesting to me when you speak to technicians or just people who are more involved of installation, it's, it's very siloed, but like you're saying, engineering can also be very siloed.

Mm. You know? Constricted to the whatever occupancies that you commonly deal with or whatever system types that you commonly deal with. I think for one of the ways that I always like to keep knowledgeable about these things is. You know, whatever professional sized societies or technical resources mm-hmm that you can find to really stay intact with these subjects, pick up a S F P E magazine or a, a blog article about data centers.

If you don't ever work on data centers and you wanna learn about, you know, common protection features and asset protection and life safety for these structures, how we promote it. The youth, or like, I think about a lot, the idea of how to bring people even into fire protection. Okay. That's good. Which is a struggle as well, like in the states.

I think that like, and maybe globally as well, I'm not as sure, but. in the states. It's a really hard education piece to like even make students aware that fire protection exists. Mm-hmm they might know that being a mechanical engineer or a civil engineer or a structural engineer is a thing, but they might not never understand that fire protection is a thing.

So I think it's a struggle on a lot of levels. Don't know if that answers your questions. I recall, um, I've met once a girl who just finished her architectural studies in Poland. And I asked her. So what did you learn about fire safety as a newly trained architect? And she was like, yeah, if I put sprinters in my building, I can do one hour walls instead of two hour walls.

And that's, that's pretty much it. And I'm like, wow, that's not a very, uh, thorough explanation of on what the profession of fire protection engineering is. And I think a lot of that comes also from us, the engineers of the community, because we also sometimes lose the grasp on what the important topics are or what the important issues are in, in my podcast.

I very rarely had. People who tell me that the roughness of the pipe is critical for fire safety or that some specific nuance of designing smoke control makes all the difference. They were rather that we are not talking with each other. We are designing in silos. We are not looking at the bigger picture.

We do not have defined goals of our analysis. Doesn't such a similar image. Come from your show, you have more engineers like people working on these big projects. So what's the collective mind of fire go tech, say about the big issues in fire and are we really addressing them? Yeah, I think that this new firm that I've been working at rated engineering, they are really concerned with this idea, this idea that the contractor is not speaking with the engineer and the engineer has a varying level of competency.

Project team has a varying level of competency, but how do we make this engineering team, as I've heard people describe it bef mm-hmm, had a whole episode about that, but how do we make this engineering team function better? And, you know, I've talked to people recently at conferences and really. Trying to needle this idea, you know, what kind of things can we do as a team better what's lacking in our documents?

The one issue that I've found is that water supply seems to be a big issue in the states. And maybe this is everywhere. Mm-hmm . But in documents, ensuring that you have data about the water supply and correct data and calibrated data and data that is acquired using the right methods. So that seems to be a really big issue in my local community.

And I can also speak a little bit on a national scale as well, but that's something I see for sure at Roja and like making the engineering team. Okay. I usually struggle crossing lines between different groups of interest on the project, you know, jumping on architects because I need a new shaft and it's impossible jumping on electricians because I will need more power.

It's impossible. I need the fan in this location. It's very hard. Uh, we need to cut costs. We need to make it more economically feasible. Uh, and then. You fight for safety. You want to design the safest building. You can, that's feasible to build obviously, but there's a really safe one. I don't want to design unsafe systems and unsafe buildings, and that's probably the goal of us all.

And then you meet the expectations on the other side that are not very well defined, like, okay, you want a safe building, but tell me what safety is for you, or like how we define it. What's the goal of the project. And we really lacking in this discussion. I, I think us may be slightly different because in us, the authority having jurisdiction is this strong party, I assume, I don't know.

Maybe, maybe I'm wrong. Am I wrong? and. It depends on where yeah. It depends on the population size, honestly. And how much money that, that enforcing entity has in order to fund these professionals that review these drawings. So if you're talking about LA, then yes, it's a very strong authority and probably rivals many globally, you know, , mm-hmm, so as far as restrictiveness and you know, how much they care and, and the, the letter of the law being followed to a T then yeah.

LA, but. if you're talking about rural Oklahoma, maybe, I don't know some far corner of Oklahoma where it's governed by a very small city authority. Um, it might not be the case, so it really depends. Mm-hmm but you touched on great points. I wanted to just say like that coordination thing is so difficult and also like having a discussion with the project stakeholders and trying to determine.

Is the risk tolerance of the owner. I think that's a conversation that I've been really thinking about a lot lately, but one thing before we go on, I just wanted to turn the table on you. Yeah. And ask for my listeners that you give a little bit of discourse on the fire science show. What, you know, people can go check it out and we'll drop some links for people to go click on it and check it out.

I wanna flip the table on you. Cause I know your listeners would like hearing it too from you about give me just your elevator pitch on the fire science show. Oh man. Uh, where to start? Uh, I hope the elevator ride is long that's that's a challenging one. Yeah. I, I think I I've made this show to give hardcore fire science.

No bullshit. Just straight as it is from the people I, I trust they know what they're saying. and the point is the fire science is so golden, vast. I, I said it on the show a few times. I, I knew it's gonna be wide. I knew it's gonna be crazy jumping from combustion to evacuation, to wildfires, to structural fire engineering.

I I've I've expected that, but boy, I did not expect how wide it is and how many aspects are there in the science. And the goal of the, the show is to. Give them the same justice, you know, to give them the same in depth, uh, look to investigate. What's important for them. What is interesting in them? So people are actually exposed to it.

Like I don't expect people will. Learn from it fully like it's if, if your expectation is to learn from one hour podcast episode, that's probably unrealistic because it takes time to learn, but just being exposed to something, you know, that something exists while problems are in there. What it means to do something really on a very high level.

You suddenly start to realize the connections, the problems, the issues. And if you ever find a problem like this in your life, you may already have a path in your brain, uh, build to where to find the knowledge and how to solve it. So, and I also, I want to break those silos between disciplines and, and break the silo between science and engineering.

That's a tough one to break. Like now I'm talking as voting S. We communicate through peer reviewed papers, which are probably horrible to read and even worse when you are an engineer. And there's a reason for that, because if you write a paper for a journal that is very like engineering, grouper, that's the first thing the reviewer is gonna pick on you up.

This reads like an engineering report, not a scientific paper, that that's a horrible review. Man I've received so many of them. So, so there's a reason why this is built in a way of like INAC accessible way. And I really felt bad about this. And then you go to a conference, you meet all these fantastic people.

You go for a beer of, with them, and you can talk about this fire science for hours. and it's fun. It's not like it's not a trip to hell. It's fun. And I thought, man, maybe we can recreate this somewhere online. And people could actually enjoy some of that. And I really hope they are. And in the future, I probably, you think they are.

Yeah. I, I hope they are. And in the future, I would also like to get maybe more engineering in the science show. I, I think it's important. You have a lot of fantastic engineers and they very good at defining the missing links. What do we really need? And I think this discourse between science and engineering is something we really need in our communities.

Like there is no point to do fire science, if it doesn't end up in fire engineering and there is no way you can do fire engineering, neglecting the fire science. Yeah, I think it's remarkable. I was talking to somebody recently who worked in like the, the tech transfer department at a university. So helping research get integrated into more physical aspect of things.

But yeah, I think that's a, definitely a struggle that, that divide between academia and like engineering and in my. I think about a lot like technology and you know, like how we could problem solve better and different ways to protect and keep people safe and how that really gets me excited. But then if you talk to the engineering community, at least in the states, it seems like they are not as concerned with that are.

More concerned with like fire science and these kind of highminded like ideas about fire behavior and like different things. But when I think that's partially, you know, driven by how these two entities get paid, you know, mm-hmm but I think that, yeah, it's something that we need to look at as a community, which is.

How to close this feedback loop between engineering and fire scientists. And, you know, I think that the states are experiencing a slow shift towards performance based design. And I think performance based design presents a lot more opportunities for. Scientists and engineers to work together.

Unfortunately, if you keep it purely prescriptive, it's a bit more bureaucratic and it, it provides less of those opportunities. I, I think that also goes back to the way how science is funded. With research grants, you get money for research and research by assumption must be innovative. They must be know this new best idea.

It's, it's difficult to get grant funded to improve an existing technology, because if the improvement is so evident, why don't the, the industry pay for that? And, and you get this. Paying punk back from a wall with grant ideas like that. So there's definitely this boundaries artificially placed there through funding, but then I appreciate efforts in, in the us, especially the, with like N FPA, uh, foundation, SFP research foundation.

I've heard UL is dedicating a lot of money to, to research in their institutes, which is also amazing. So I hope with more entities like that and more funding bodies that. Align engineering with science. There's a bright future actually for SFP. I, I must give them a shout out. There's the global challenges summit coming, uh, soon in, in like two months.

And that's a virtual. Even in which it will be discussed, what are the sums to be ascended? What, where should we go with, uh, with engineering and researchers can submit their grants, uh, to, to research, to get some money for research. Actually, actually I'm afraid that already is closed, but there will be next rounds.

I'm sure. And companies are paying for, for that. So it creates this beautiful link between science and engineering. Both suddenly do gain from that. And I think that's a beautiful cooperation. That's something I would love to promote. yeah, definitely. I think that's cool that I would be interested in that just to hear to me, I think, as a professional being aware of trends and being aware of.

Where the industry is heading is crucial. I mean, I can speak in the us. There has been a huge kind of upset with foam fire suppression recently. Mm-hmm and regulation changes about a F and the kind of incident record around hanger fires. Has led the industry to reevaluate some of these fire suppression systems.

And I've been aware of these grumblings in the community for a year or two. And then all of a sudden this legislation is popping up fast. And so having a knowledge about these trends in these. Large macro features of our industry and where it's going is very important because the more knowledgeable you are, the quicker you're gonna be able to react to as a professional, to where this is going.

I also had a question I really wanted to ask you, and that's gonna be a curve ball. There's a code in fire code tech. And I, I know you. And refer to cold compliance reading codes. And actually I'm amazed how you pop up these section numbers from your mind. For me, that's crazy. in, in codes, but in some aspects, you know, this fire science and fire engineering has there has been a third branch.

Which is probably as old as, as the other ones, the fire codes and how this environment is built. And as crossing, you know, the boundary between science and engineering, it seems, yeah, that's, that's, that's doable because you need to break someone's comfort zone. Hopefully not break low , but you can jump from one to another, but now to jump from science to code, well, that's a hell of a jump.

Yeah. Did you, um, You have people who are code makers, you have people who are so active in like an FPA and then yeah. ICC is the other institution. But yeah, I think that's a great point. I mean, the wheels of code grind slow. I always like to think about, as we think about September 11th and. What that did for the fire codes.

I mean, some of those impacts and effects we didn't see until maybe 10, 15 years later in the code. And so we have new pieces of fire and life safety equipment, like the bidirectional, amplifiers and buildings or emergency radio coverage systems. And so we see these change. Lagging in the industry. So I think that with any change we're gonna see, it's gonna have anywhere from a five to a 15 year lag, especially code in the states works from the coasts in.

So in a lot of ways, or think of it more of. From very large and progressive mm-hmm , uh, cities, and then into the more rural and remote. So it kind of filters in, and I think about it in that way. So whatever change you would like to instate to, to bridge that gap in policy or in code enforcement, diffusion of these ideas of these policies.

That takes time to permeate the, the different communities and cities and states and authorities. So there is this momentum. Momentum, I don't wanna say against change, but it takes a higher application to get it through. I mean, if you just want to talk about getting a new technology listed with a, uh, listing agency, I mean, there's so many barriers to entry.

Assume that you have a standard. Hm assume that there's even a standard to test your technology through. You know, there may not be, you may have to create a new standard with the UL and get that tested and put it finally, once it gets into the codes, you know, you've spent, oh, whatever, anywhere from a couple 10,000, you know, 10, 20, $30,000 to hundreds of thousands of dollars to get your technology into the code.

So, yes. Okay. It's a barrier to entry. It's a barrier to innovation at times, but we deal with lives and, and fire safety here. It's a complicated equation. I love the barrier to innovation. If I remember correctly in 1925 building, uh, code in us, there was this, that the goal should be, um, performance as, as often as they can.

So the technology is not limited or the, the, the growth is not limited by, uh, the technology that's prescribed. And that was like already a hundred years ago in the, in the code. And I don't think it went. That way, I'll find that quote. Maybe I'll pop in the show. That's uh, yeah, I'm horrible in quoting for my head.

yeah. That's remarkable to even think about, you know, like the codes in the us haven't even been the same in the last 20 years, 30 years, we used to have a couple different regional building codes in the us. And only in the last three decades, have we consolidated into like a uniform set of codes through the ICC and regionally, there are some states even that don't even follow those kind of same code enforcement procedures.

So it really varies wildly in the us, and it's not been that way for very long in my lifetime. It, it has been different on a regional level. It's pretty wild to think about. It's it's, we're a very, very young industry, honestly, to jump back to the mindset of a young engineer who's entering the profession.

This beast of codes doesn't make their work easier or harder. On one hand, you can learn the codes and that's it. You can design on other hand, if you limit yourself to codes itself, you lose the wider picture. Yeah. Like when you were professionally educated in us, was there some focus on having. There was, uh, like you said earlier, your education is really just like a broad base of everything.

And so in my mind there we're like the program I graduated was is like technology focused. It's a technology program. So it's really more on application. If you were to go to a program like the Maryland program or the Worcester Polytech program. They are more fire science oriented mm-hmm so they would be more performance based, more fire science, more fire phenomena.

Mm-hmm . So in school I experienced more technical applications, sort of mm-hmm training and knowledge, which is great because you know, like getting to wire a smoke detector in school and getting to trip a dry valve in school is that's all meaningful. But of course, you know, there's only so much you can put in a college degree program.

Having that experience, I would love to get a, you know, a master's in from like, uh, Maryland or one of these programs where they really harp on the fire science, because I think that's like how you get a well rounded kind of background for professionals. I see this code base is a huge hindrance on your ability to like perform at a 10 year professional or a 20 year professional's level because they have this long standing knowledge of.

Basis of how to solve problems. So what I think about is competitive edges for young people is I think that when there's something new or trending, you have to be knowledgeable. Cuz when something new pops up the 30 year professional has no more background than you do. So you can become the SME on it, and that's how you can give yourself a leg up.

Something like that happens now in, in fire science with the AI where the AI is a new, interesting thing. And it was a theme in my podcast. I had some interviews about that and from it emerges a view that it's a new, fantastic technology. And, uh, it really, you know, shrinks the distance between you and the ones who have 30 years of experience because.

Both you and them have to learn the new tool and amazing discoveries that can be done with them are available to, to everyone and base back to your background. Actually, you would be surprised how many fire scientists would never know how what's the difference between I know optical organization smoke detector, or, or how does a, a sprinkler valve work and, and what's the machinery behind it.

And I think this knowledge is also critical. Fire researchers. I would somehow assume my audience is more fire research side. I know I have a lot of fire engineers listening to, to this, but I think the fire researchers need to be exposed more to how truly buildings work, how safety is delivered, what are the elements of the puzzle that go into protecting their lives in the building?

Because yeah, if you don't. And you just assume you make mistakes that, uh, may impact the conclusions of your research. Like they will not change how the smoke flows in your experiment, but they will change, uh, the way how you can interpret the outcome of that experiment and what will it do to the building.

And there's a lot of people who who'd overestimate the potential impact. Like people figuring out a new, clever way to do something and they would say, okay, this is groundbreaking. This will change the world. No first, you have to validate that second. You have to mass produce that you have to put it in the codes or find a performance based route to implement that.

I mean, I've done some discoveries and boy discovering is the easy part. , it's so hard to get your new idea technology through. I think that's a great point. Like I was talking to somebody the other day and I was like, great IDs are a dime, a dozen. I could tell you a thousand good ideas, but like the ability to push it through and to implement it and to bring it in into life is really the, the truly remarkable thing.

I think about it a lot, because how many ideas have you had in the shower thinking about, you know, something that you found remarkable and it comes to you like a Eureka moment and you're like, oh my gosh, here's a million dollar idea I just thought of, and then what is that worth? It floats outta your brain.

And then it's gone. Yeah, you have to do notes, man. you have to take notes, notes that that's that's the tricky take notes. Take notes all the time. Take notes. That's that's good. Yeah. That's really good. Now for the last part of the show, I wanted to take this chance of us being here together to brainstorm something like how can we yeah.

Serve audiences better? How can we make the world of fire engineering? In a whole better how to better connect this worlds of fire science and fire engineering. And for me, I think it. Great to have more fire engineers in my show to understand where their pain points are located and maybe try to find scientific answers for them.

I think this could be a nice pathway. What, what do you think? Yeah, I. Think that, uh, more cross pollination in general. I mean, where I would go with it. I want more people to, to be talking and more people to be coming on podcasts and really having these discussions and trying to further the total scope and, and progress of our industry by just having more conversations and putting out more content.

I mean, I look at an industry like, uh, software develop. And I see an organization like a free code camp, and they put out dozens of hours of content on different programming methods and, and means, and it's all for free. And they have leaders in the industry come and speak about how to learn and how to develop and issues in the industry and dive into specific topics for hours on end and make it so easy that somebody who is in.

High school or middle school could pick it up and learn from it. And that's something that I really aspire for our industry to try to bring to the table. I think that we just need to make it more accessible, make it more detailed, make more of it. You know, I don't think that, you know, there's dozens of podcasts in fire and life safety.

And I still just think that we've only just begun. So. I've absolutely. That's my thoughts on it. I just hope to keep furthering that discussion and building a community of not only people who are ingesting the content, but creating the content. Yeah. There's so, so many good resources in the field of podcasting.

And I think with this field, uh, the murder is the better because there is no point of saturation. So if there's anyone listening in to us who would like to join the club, well, there's free spots here. We can, we can coach you through that's. That's the only thing holding you back is you that's. That's a cool man.

And also think. With, uh, Farcote having this mm-hmm, significant flare in, in personal development and career. And I, I feel this is a theme in, in your show where you really go through how someone got to the point where they are. I would truly love to hear stories of scientists who went engineering, engineers, who went engineering, and then came back to science.

That would be a stories I would love. I would love the most because I think these people, um, building. Careers building their experiences have really touched both worlds and, and in an experiment they've experienced what it means to lack scientific background for engineering and lack engineering goal for science, right?

Oh yeah. Well, I can tell you, I can't. Say any with the triple jump where they started, uh, academic, and then they went engineering and then went academic. But I can tell you career fire protection engineer to academic and, you know, uh, career academic to fire protection engineer. And I will tell you that the professionals who have experience in both are some of the most impactful and, and most inspiring that I've ever had a chance to work.

And the reason why I'm a fire protection engineer today is because I had a fire protection engineer who is a teacher at the school that I went to. And there were a couple, but one in particular, she worked in Clark county, which is in where Las Vegas is. So on these. Huge Highrise buildings. Mm-hmm and the blend of competency for research and like the progression of the field, as well as the functional knowledge of how codes and standards work and the science of how to implement these systems really gave me a big like eye opener on how neat this field is.

And like that really was a big motivating factor. And then on the other side at FSB, I worked with several PhDs who came from academia. And when I would go to them with questions about how a system would work and they would structural engineers, who would diagram out in hand, beautiful handwritten sketches.

You know, obviously you could tell that they had taught a class before Z would just go through. No, I don't know if you understand this point specifically and would draw it out. The actual connection detail for something we were looking at. Like how special those moments were in my life and how it's changed, you know, what I do now, um, it's, can't be understated, but so I think that cross pollination of this academic and, uh, professional or, uh, fire protection engineering rather is a beautiful thing.

Yeah, for, for me, it's also, um, important aspect, this like having this inclusive, I'm very happy to have everyone in the show, no matter who you are. If you're professor, if you are just a student, where do you live? Doesn't matter who you are. Doesn't matter. If you can together, bring the fire science a little closer to engineering.

You're very, very welcome. And I would love everyone to, to feel like that. And yeah, that's also important to me cuz there's enough barriers between us to build even more. Yeah. Yeah. I think that. For me, honestly, it's just like any time where I've tried to be like to bring people to the table and to really hear people's voice and, and to get input from others, it's always made my situation better.

So that's why. The the podcast and just trying to build mentorship and different kind of community relationships has been such a theme for me because it's been so rewarding. I think that I'm geared for it by my personal nature. But I also think that at every step of the way, I've just had dividends paid into my life from speaking with people and trying to learn and trying to grow.

So that's why you see it as a theme in the, in the podcast is it's just because I've, uh, received a lot from it myself, man. That's so, that's so cool. I'm really happy. We, we got to do this and I hope there's many members of fire central show, uh, audience that will jump. With curiosity to Farco tech and learn about all of these interesting career paths and engineering aspects of, of dealing with fire highly recommended

Yeah. Yeah. And I'd say for my listeners, if you want to, if you want to hear somebody speak. First of all. I mean, we, I can't get over Wil Jack's voice. I mean, it's so silky and smooth. I think you've got a way better podcast voice than me, but so if that's not enough of a factor just to drive you over to the fire science show, I'll give you one more, which is.

You get to talk to some really passionate and really hyper intelligent individuals about the, oftentimes like you said, we don't get the science piece of behind technology or, or behind the progression of fields. But it's really interesting for me to hear, like you talk with Guillermo. Or you speak with Brian MechE.

Like we talked about before the episode started, you know, these people who are just, they love what they do, you know? Yeah, absolutely gear. Modera talk about a fire that's been burning for thousands of years and just, you know, hear 'em light up inside. I mean, to me, that passion and, and speaking with people about giving you a broader perspective for fire and life safety is it's so cool.

And I find huge value in that, and I'm a fan of yours and, you know, we talked. We talked for the first time on the podcast, you know, hasn't even been a year ago now has not even been a year. What a crazy year. Well, All the best for your developments in fire code tech. And I have a feeling we'll meet somewhere in here.

Not that far away from now. I, I, I like this idea of crossing episodes, so maybe we should do one more maybe on smoke control. I would love to do smoke control one, come down, come down. We need to do it. That's we'll we'll meet again. This is not goodbye for sure. thanks so much for now and yeah, to everyone listening to this special episode of fire science, go tech show.

Thank you. . Hey. Hey, thank you guys. And don't forget to go subscribe if you liked what you're listening to subscribe to both hit the bell on both. Yeah. They're both good shows. I'm sure there'll be some that you like of both of 'em and, uh, yeah. Thank you guys so much for listening. It's been fun and I hope you enjoyed.

Thank you. Thanks for listening, everybody. Be sure to share the episode with a friend, if you enjoyed it, don't forget that fire protection and life safety is serious business. The views and opinions expressed on this podcast are by no means a professional consultation or a codes and standards.

Interpretation. Be sure to contact a licensed professional. If you are getting involved with fire protection and or life safety. Thanks again. And we'll see you next time.

Aaron Johnson  00:03

Welcome to the fire protection industry FERS virtual Summit. Today I'm here with Gus. Gus, thanks for coming and being part once you go ahead and tell us a little bit about yourself, tell us who you are, where you started, how you got to where you are today and where you're going or what's next.

Gus Gagliardi  00:16

Yeah, so my name is Gus Gagliardi, I'm a registered professional engineer, I work in the construction industry, I do design engineering for a variety of existing and new construction facilities. Started off with a degree in fire protection and safety technology from Oklahoma State, moved on and had a fire suppression role right out of college, and really learned about the nuts and bolts of how to put sprinkler systems together. Spent the last five years almost in my career at FSB, a pretty large, full service any firm in Oklahoma City, the largest think oklahoma city owned firm. So yeah, a lot of hanger work a lot of Department of Defense work high industrial facilities. And then yeah, now I just started a new role as a fire protection engineer at rated engineering, and going to be doing a lot of similar work with the hangars and the DoD work, but also looking to incorporate the full scope of what a fire protection engineer can do as far as work in consulting services. So yeah, that's a little bit about my elevator pitch. Oh, and I didn't mention that. Excuse me, sorry. I am the host of industry, first podcast, fire co tech, where we discuss everything fire protection, and we just basically interview professionals. And we also have solid cast episodes where I do deep dives into topics like codes and standards, specific technologies, and just a variety of fire and life safety topics. So yeah, that's a bit about my career and background in my elevator pitch here. And thanks for having me.

Aaron Johnson  02:09

Awesome. And thanks for being here. So that sounds starting a new thing is always exciting. So I'm glad that for that for you, I'm sure. Sure you have some mixed emotions about that.

Gus Gagliardi  02:18

Oh, yeah. It's been such a blessing. My, my last five years at FSB was so awesome. Like being a part of a firm that's full service. So I got to, you know, work with structural engineers, electrical engineers, mechanical engineers, you know, architects, interior designers. And so it's been great cutting my teeth, with projects and getting to collaborate in house with a variety of design professionals, and just really just to learn so much in the last five years. So it's been tough saying goodbye, these last couple of weeks, but super excited for the new gig and the chance to lean into fire protection some more and, and really discover everything that FP can do. So excited. Excited. Yeah, mix bittersweet, though. You're right.

Aaron Johnson  03:05

Awesome. Yep. Now I've been in where you have to move, or can you stay where you're at and still do the job?

Gus Gagliardi  03:10

No. So my last commute was 18 miles. And this next commute is only four miles. So super stoked to get such a good opportunity. And it's, like 10 minutes away from my house. So with all the lights red, so it's a good deal. I'm stoked on it. So yeah, super excited.

Aaron Johnson  03:30

Awesome. Well, let's get into some other stuff. Thanks for sharing all that. And I'm happy for you looking forward to the new thing that you're going to be doing. So we're gonna come back to your podcast a little bit later, because I want to really dig a little bit deeper into that into this process in what you do. But first of all, tell us about some associations or groups that you're involved in, and what kind of value that you gained from being involved in those groups.

Gus Gagliardi  03:50

You know, actually, I found this most recent job opportunity was for through professional organizations, I'm part of SF PE, you know, I've been a member of a member of NFPA, and National Fire Protection Association, society, fire protection engineers, I love perfect societies, there's so much benefit to be gained from them, like, business is all about personal connections and business connections and genuine connections. And so a great way to develop those connections and maintain that knowledge base that you need as a professional is to be involved in professional societies. You know, that's kind of a core tenet of what we talked about on the podcast is like, how to say professionally relevant and professional societies are a great way to do that. You know, most societies bring in professional leaders to speak about, you know, different topics and things to keep you relevant in what's going on in the industry. And so there's so much to be gained networking and having the opportunity to build a web of professionals that you can leave If you have problems in the industry, that's invaluable. I mean, the ability to say, hey, you know, person that I met individual that I met who's a fire suppression contractor or a fire alarm contractor, you know, I'm not knowledgeable on Vesta, can you? Can you help me out and like some of the design practices for this system are, you know, kind of rough order of magnitude pricing for this system. And so, you know, you really, as a professional to have all the tools that you need for your toolkit, you, in my opinion, have to be involved in professional societies, because if you don't, you're not, you're limiting yourself in your options for how to solve problems. And as a professional, you get paid to solve problems. So that's probably a couple of the biggest advantages I see in being involved in professional societies. I named SFP, NFPA, hfsa, American fire sprinkler Association, nfsa, national fire sprinkler Association, AFA American fire alarm Association. Those are probably some of the biggest ones that throw out free webinars, and I have a lot of relevant system information for my field, but they get super niche, you could go all the way down to specific occupancies. Like there's a whole bunch of hangar specific ones, as I'm sure you know, like MRO facilities, sorry, I got a bug in my throat.

Aaron Johnson  06:31

No problem. But yeah. Awesome. And well, thanks for sharing. That's a lot that I know that alphabet soup can go on for on and on forever. Yeah, no, no, thank you for sharing that. And sharing those associations are, what they are and kind of what you gain from them. So let's go back a little bit and talk about kind of focus more on the podcast on that podcasting. So you said you're your host, and started this podcast. So So why did you do that? Why did you want to do that? What kind of gap in industry? Do you think that it filled? What were what were your motivations for starting that? And kind of what were the steps you took to get that started?

Gus Gagliardi  07:03

Yeah, so I don't think it filled the gap in the industry, but as a professional, a couple years out of, you know, about maybe one or two years into my time at FSB, so maybe like two or three years into being a professional. I was like, Well, I want to know more. And there's only so many resources that a company can give you while they need to maintain production of what product they are selling. And so as somebody who is somebody who wants to learn and somebody who wants to keep a competitive edge, I just thought, how do I connect with people? How do I, you know, make connect these dots. And so, for me, I'm an avid podcast listener. And so I took what I knew, which was fire protection, engineering, and podcasting, and in the confluence of that area, I thought, well, maybe I can leverage this to learn more, and provide a resource to people like me, you know, who want to know more about the industry, but maybe don't have the facilities to, you know, find this information out, you know, how many times as a two year or three year professional get to reach out to people on NFPA codes and standards and talk to them about the codes and standards process. And you know, how that works and technical related information to those codes and standards. I mean, it has given me a seat at the table in which I would have never had, if I would not have started the podcast and really, I think has accelerated my learning process. Like I'd say, at least two or three years for, you know, just my ability to find out information about topics. So I think that was a big reason why I started it. And, you know, the gap that it started to fill in the industry, I still think there's a huge gap to fill. I hope that more people get into it. I hope that we can continue to foster this network of professionals who are looking to put out a variety of content around fire and life safety. I'm not somebody who thinks that there is a finite amount of, you know, content or consumption for good, good fire and life safety information. I think the more the merrier. And I hope more people get into it. But yeah, as far as steps to get there. And, you know, I would tell people that if you have interest in doing something, a blog, or a podcast or YouTube videos, I'd say just figure it out. Just go do it because there is no huge there is no huge financial or technical barrier to go do these things. Really. The only barrier to entry is your own volition and time to go do these things. You know if you have those two things, I think you could get by with a really cheap mic and a cheap computer. And you could probably put something out there that somebody would find interesting and reach out and tell you, Hey, man, I think this is awesome. And if you did it for a couple years, you probably find out that you're starting to get good at it. So that's my, that's my piece of advice on that.

Aaron Johnson  10:20

Thanks for sharing. I like that, you know, talk about that gave you a seat at the table. And I kind of had the same experience when I started blogging, about I guess it's been about 17 years ago now or 15 years ago, started doing just, you know, regular blogs, blogs are kind of new back then. And so, but I found the same thing, right, again, got your seat at the table, when you share those articles and and comment I got to interact with people from all over the world, instead of just my little community. So awesome.

Gus Gagliardi  10:46

Yeah, it did. Why didn't your your scope of influence or your, you know, ability to network and, you know, like we talked about before connections and, and ability to problem solve? And you know, you talk to me about reaching out to people and get an information for articles. That's so powerful. I mean, like, to give you that avenue to do that.

Aaron Johnson  11:07

Yep, absolutely. Absolutely. So, thank you. So how does the how does this kind of decide project this kind of hobby project? How does it impact your day job? And what practical or personal professional benefits? Have you realized from it?

Gus Gagliardi  11:23

You know, I would say that on a day to day basis, it's pretty minimal on how it impacts my day job. I mean, I send out I'll send out a couple emails a week to invite guests, I spend the time on the weekends, editing podcasts, maybe like, anywhere from two to four hours producing social media copy, you know, show notes, and mixing and editing podcasts. So functionally, that's what it looks like, as far as time impact. Of course, there were startup energy involved, that we're not talking about. This is me in steady state after I've been doing it for coming up on two years in April. But, you know, what is it given me in my career, it's given me so much, I don't think that I would have this job opportunity that I do now, without the knowledge base, and like the competitive edge that I've gained from, you know, Fostering Connections and becoming a professional who has just leaned into networking and tried to be more competitive, I don't think that I would have the same opportunities, I don't think that I would have, you know, I don't think I would be the professional that I am today without the podcast. So that's kind of a broad statement. But I truly believe that and because, you know, you get to a point in your career, where you're at a company, you may be in a set track of what this experience can bring you. And so how do you differentiate? Do you get certifications? Do you, you know, take on a new, important valuable skill set, you know, how do you make yourself a more competitive professional. So for me, it's, you know, along with my technical expertise, and willing to learn about things in the industry that are difficult and valuable, I think that it is given me a huge advantage over my peers. But you know, that's just my two cents. I'm sure I'm inflated about that idea.

Aaron Johnson  13:26

No, it's true. Awesome. Well, thanks. Thank you for sharing. So you do have a lot of great guests on the podcast. I know, we've kind of talked in the past on, you know, how do you get these great guests that come onto your podcast? I'm sure you get, you probably get more nose than yeses, or get just ignored emails. But how do you get the guests that you do have? How do you get them to come onto your podcast? And how do you find these two or three people that you email every week?

Gus Gagliardi  13:47

You know, I think that it's easier than you think it's, it's easier than you think. And I'd say my hit ratio is probably closer to like, like 50 or 60%. Then, like, like 40 or 30%. And you'd be surprised. I mean, so people are professionals, and they they are in fire in my safety, their whole lives. They have fascinating jobs. I, I've traveled all across the country. I've been in aircraft hangars that were built in World War Two, you know, I have, you know, worked in probably more than a dozen states, probably closer to 20 states across the US you think I don't want to talk about that. You think that I don't love what I do. And I'm not passionate about that. You think other people in the industry, who have these great careers and experiences don't want to tell people and give people a leg up for their professional careers? No, you look for the passion, I would say and find a guests, people who people who are passionate about they what they do and their involvement in professional societies. Those are the people who are interested after a while you kind of get a sense for who would be interested in this sort of thing. And once you can sniff that out, it's a lot easier to find guests. So, um, I think that there's so many incredible stories in probably a lot of industries, but especially in fire and life safety. And so that process really just looks like a lot of LinkedIn searches or being knowledgeable about industry related topics or fields and searching through, you know, oh, I read a good magazine article. Oh, who's the author on this magazine article? Oh, this guy says, did he, you know, works at the Smithsonian? Oh, that sounds like a good episode. And so, you know, I reached out to Michael Kilby. And he's gracious enough to come on the podcast. And he sits on two NSPA boards or, you know, committees, and for one for historical and cultural museums and another one that I've never heard of, and he's willing to come talk to me about how to protect extremely valuable assets. And so I think it's easier, it's easier than it sounds. And that's some of that barrier to entry is like, how difficult you think it's going to be?

Aaron Johnson  16:07

Good. Yeah, that would be the the fear that people have in getting started. So thanks for kind of alleviating that for some of us. So yeah, I've been on your show a few times. And some other people have been and so the, the thing that we all have in common, we talk about gustas podcast is that Gus is the easiest guy to talk to, when we do these shows. So what do you think it is about you or your style that makes you so easy to talk to?

Gus Gagliardi  16:31

Man, I just I love people. And I've always been interested in personal stories. If you don't like people, and you don't like talking to people, then podcasting is probably not for you. But for me, I have no trouble talking. And I have no trouble being interested in people and really caring about what's going on in their life. And personally, what moves them. I'd listened to I'd listened, I've listened to all kinds of podcasts. And I used to I was learning how to code. So I would listen to this podcast called, I think it was learned to code with me or something. And basically, it was all framed around personal life stories and how people have overcome adversity and not always found that so compelling. So I've taken little bits and pieces of podcasting style and personal interaction that I've found really touching and compelling. And I try to embody those in the podcast that I have. So I think part of it is genuinely interested in this stuff, you know, it really, if you're not interested, it comes across in the podcast, it's gonna come off flat, you're gonna, it's got to be weak, you know, it's, and people can sense that. And it takes about three seconds for people to sniff people being not genuine and tune out and log off. And so, you know, because there's a billion different things for content you can get these days. So you have to be invested in what you're doing. You have to care, you have to want to talk or else. It's not gonna work.

Aaron Johnson  18:02

Right, good. Good. So you mentioned some pot, you're, you're an avid podcast listener listener. So what are some podcasts that you listen to?

Gus Gagliardi  18:10

So I guess I could break it down into like, a number of categories? Because, you know, I vacillate between, you know, do I want something interesting? You know, you want to do something like Stuff You Should Know. You want to laugh? Do you want something like two bears? When cave? It's just you know, irreverent comedy and kind of ridiculousness? Are you do you have a personal hobby or project you want to get into? You know, is there something about cooking you want to know about? You know, I used to listen to used to be a great podcast. It's changed host now, but it was like about people for who worked for like getting Bon appetit. Now, not Bon appetit. But some other food magazine in New York, I can't remember. But they would just go over like people's cookbooks and things. So, I mean, I listened to everything you could think of. And, you know, I'll go through periods where I'm listening to only podcasts. And like, you know, I'll burn through like, six to 10 of these a week. Easy. And then I'll switch to something like audio books, or I'll switch to something like all music or so. I think that's why I knew that it was going to work fire Kotek was going to work is because I know how I consume podcasts. And I was like, I don't just like one podcast. I like 20 podcasts. And if it's good, I don't care how many podcasts there are, I'm going to find time to lean into that content. So yeah, that's a little bit of my background on podcasts. It's always hard to answer that because I'm always vacillating between. I like the new stuff as much as I like the well established. There's something fun about being involved when a podcast just starts and you feel like you're a part of something a little bit. It's fun to have that like sense of community that people have, even though you really don't know the person at all.

Aaron Johnson  19:59

Yeah, Awesome. Yeah. My thing with the new startups is you get really attached to the show, then they stop after like five episodes disappear. You know? Yeah,

Gus Gagliardi  20:08

one thing, the number one thing with any content is be consistent. If people, that's one of the hugest benefits that people get out of podcasts. I know, every Monday, that x podcast comes out, and that gives me comfort. And that gives me enjoyment. And I get a sense of relief as I drive to work on Monday because I get to listen to x podcast. If you can't provide that, then nobody's gonna stick around to hear what you got to say. So first and foremost, be consistent. Otherwise, you can just forget about it. You know, don't even start. Don't even start if you don't want to be consistent because I've seen most podcasts burnout, and it makes me sad, honestly, because some people have great potential.

Aaron Johnson  20:57

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Your your podcast listening can be cut down, though, with your new job, your commute, your short commute time. Now,

Gus Gagliardi  21:06

I thought about that you can't really get into a podcast in 10 minutes. I was thinking I gotta switch to music now. Because you got to get like some sort of pump up. But you can't like really settle into an hour long podcast. minutes. That's right. That's I had that thought for sure. This week I was just cuts into like me, like really getting into a state of mind going to work.

Aaron Johnson  21:29

Get up early, you have to get up the same time. Just get your podcast listening. I know. So tell us a little bit about the practical steps you actually take like, what's the whole process from inviting the guests to preparing to actually posting the podcast? And then you do everything? Or do you outsource some of it to other companies or people?

Gus Gagliardi  21:46

No I to everything, I think eventually I will look at kicking some of the podcast editing out. But honestly, like, for the price of what you get for editing, like it can be anywhere from low cost would be for audio only video is a lot more expensive. But the price points for per episode. Like I think I calculated, I forget what the number was I calculated how much money on average I spend. It's like a couple of dollars per podcast episode if you like, if you cut it down to all of the hosting fees, and like everything that I've signed up for whatever email account, and like if you roll all that into one number and divided by 365, it's like a couple of dollars. But that's because I do all of the editing, and all of the media stuff, and all of the shownotes and everything. So functionally, what that looks like, I'll send an email out and ask them to gauge their interests, then I will try to establish the date and or schedule time. After there's a scheduled time I will develop a set of questions. And usually it's easiest for me to think about this questions and categories. So I'll kind of broadly think of some categories for fire code tech, generally, it's people story, like a technical competency issue or topic. And then professional development. So if you think about it in those categories, I generally know that it only takes about depending on the person anywhere from 10 to 15 questions to fill an hour. But that's highly dependent on the person's level of skill and level of passion and level of ease in speaking to fill that to fill that hour. So I've had people where I've gotten through maybe like less than four questions. And then I've had people where I've just like it's pulling teeth, and I got to have like 17 questions to get through an hour. So okay, tighly variable on the person. And so I will record the episode. And then I will mix and master the audio, and compile that and upload it to a hosting website, which distributes it to spark Spotify, Apple, Google Play, like eight different places and distributes it all in one place. So yeah, that's a little bit about the workflow and then it releases every Monday it releases really early in the morning. I don't know why I started that. But it releases like 2am on Mondays, but I figured people could have it whenever they start their commute. So I'm consistent and I think that's important, but that's a bit about the process.

Aaron Johnson  24:36

Awesome. So it also looks like since we're on video, it looks like you're in like your own sound booth. So tell me a little bit about like what what you got going on there they

Gus Gagliardi  24:44

1. Yeah, I just rigged this up. I just picked this up by I'm in the process of like, getting everything incorporated for video. My brother has a video podcast, so he kind of like charged the path on letting me know like everything thing you need for video. And like, really, if you have a nice camera, which I don't, I'm just using a computer camera, but like, you can set up a certain focus and depth of field. But I'd say the elements are lighting, sound quality. So you set up sound blankets around the room to really dampen the noise and give it that studio s sound. And then, you know, you have lighting. And there's great posts online about how to set up the three different components of lighting or like the, like three point lighting, it's called. So there's like, basically, yeah, just like a backlight, a key light, and like a foot. I don't know the terminology. But so I've tried to incorporate that a little bit for this. But honestly, I just threw up all this stuff this morning. But yeah, I'd say focus on the sound quality, the lighting, and the aesthetic. Like, if I had some knickknacks or something in the background, I think that'd be a lot better. I don't I just threw up a sound blanket to give a nice backdrop and have some fighting. So face isn't washed out.

Aaron Johnson  26:06

That's right. Awesome, man. So what is and you've given a lot of tools. And I really appreciate that. Yeah. To the audience today, what's one actionable step that they can go to do today and they say, I want to start a podcast, what's the one thing they can go and do right now. And to get started in that direction?

Gus Gagliardi  26:22

Do you need to go record a podcast today, if you want to do a podcast, don't wait until you're ready. Don't wait until you get to sign from wherever you want to get the sign. If you want to do a podcast scheduled podcast today, get your buddy, whoever it is Tell him we're doing a podcast, we don't have to release it. But we're going to do it and I'm going to practice my my skills interview in or having a conversation or whatever scheme you want for your podcasts, go do it today. Because if you can find a reason not to do it, you're going to keep finding a reason not to do it. And that is like the other huge hurdle after you've convinced yourself to do one is to convince yourself to post one. And then after you've posted one, make sure you put yourself in a position to post at the same frequency you've set out. So I recorded like four or six podcasts before I released any because I had no clue how hard it was going to be to keep a churning backlog of professionals and videos recorded. I don't know if that was necessary. It would. It's what made me feel comfortable with the time. But yeah, I'd say if you are interested in doing a podcast, grab whatever microphone and or camera you have today and go record one because the first one you're going to do is going to be hard, and then they'll get easier after that. But if you don't, if you don't actually start recording podcasts, you're not a podcast. So just go do it, go do it. Because I guarantee you, it's easier than what you think it's gonna be. And there's a billion articles online, on how to figure it out. So if you really want it, you can do it.

Aaron Johnson  28:11

Awesome. So I know you're in the, we're gonna change gears a little bit and start to kind of wrap things up. You're the you're a fire protection engineer, you're in that field. So what would you say is the current state of the industry for the fire protection engineering field or the aspiring fire protection engineer,

Gus Gagliardi  28:28

I'd say I have not in my career experienced a better time become a fire protection engineer, the industry is absolutely white hot for career opportunity, and a chance to professionally develop and get a good job and to have a competitive salary for a good job. So I think that if you have any interest in fire and life safety, and you want to make your foray into the field, say do it now because the industry is on a bull run the market wide hot with opportunity. And I've never seen it be this good in the last six, six years of being in business. So the industry that even despite the all of the supply chain disruptions and all of these inherent difficulties with COVID. The industry is just chugging away for speeding. I don't know how long that's gonna last. But right now it's incredible to see the amount of construction that's going on right now in the construction that I've seen that's been scheduled for the next couple of years. So that is what I see happening right now. The big topics I see in the industry are batteries, lithium ion batteries being a big one. You know, what else heavy timber construction for, like sustainability and kind of environmental impact. That's a huge thing. I see Right now in the industry a push on the national scale. Yeah, I think a big part of thing that I want to be an advocate for is bringing people into the industry. Because another trend that I see on the macro level is a lack in people coming into the field, I see that, you know, the program that I came from Oklahoma State produces about anywhere from 40 to 50 candidates a year, and that doesn't even scratch the surface of what the industry needs for just FPS like, that doesn't even start to, to really move the needle for what we're going to need for people getting into fire alarm, fire, sprinkler, fire protection, engineering, I mean, there's so many jobs, and people from my program go into, you know, safety, and a lot of other different avenues. So they might go work for a petroleum company, or they might go, you know, work for work safety for industry, you know, some accompany like International Paper or something like that. So, so maybe only quarter to a third of those kids are becoming, you know, in the system side of fire and life safety. So, it's a huge boom time. And it's a super consistent job market. So, you know, I would say, Please, please, please get involved. There's so much promise and opportunity right now, for anybody with competency, and it's not too hard to be competent.

Aaron Johnson  31:36

Awesome. Thank you. So we're wrapping up here. Before we do, is there anything else that you'd like to share something that you'd like to discuss that we haven't mentioned yet? Feel free to do that now? And then just kind of tell us where where can people find you?

Gus Gagliardi  31:48

Yeah, I think that now, as far as topics left, I think we've covered a lot of good stuff. Yeah, just to put a put a big plug in for the podcast here. Fire co tech. You can find it wherever you find podcasts, like we said before, Spotify, YouTube, Apple, Google, play all the above, go find it. There's great topics about whether you like aircraft hangars or fire alarm or fire suppression or you want some tips and tricks on how to pass your Fe or PE. There's great information on these podcasts where I get to view interview professionals like Aaron and people who are absolute leaders in the industry with 30 and 40 years of experience just given out great secrets and not secrets, but just tips and tricks for people to be competitive in the industry. Also, you can find me on LinkedIn am Gus Gagliardi and on Twitter at gags guess what's jiejie ZG us? So? Yeah, I think that I've enjoyed the podcast. Aaron, thank you so much for having me. And yeah, we'd love to do it again. I hope there's another one of these I hope this becomes an annual gig.

Aaron Johnson  33:01

Awesome, man. No thank you for your words. And thank you for sharing and taking your time so we appreciate it. Thanks a lot, man.

Transcription

Hello. Welcome to the solo cast of fire code tech in these episodes. It's just gonna be me, your host, Gus Gagliardi. There's gonna be a range of topics, but I'm gonna talk about specific technologies, installation, standards, codes, and how they work as well as some other interesting topics that don't neatly fit inside of the context of a normal interview.

Hello, well, welcome to another episode of fire code tech. This solocast is gonna be a little different. I'm going to be playing my interview from last week's industry affair summit with Aaron Johnson, we get into a little bit about my backstory and some interesting information on how to start a podcast.

Really had fun being a part of the summit and was honored to be on a lineup with people who are huge in the industry like Joe Meyer and Chris Campbell and drew locum, and some of the other content creators in the space. If you want to check out some more about the summit and listen to these other interviews, I'll drop a link below.

I think you gotta pay for it now, but it's still available. If you want to pay the premium, don't forget to subscribe and follow us on social media. Oh. And give us a five star review on apple iTunes podcast. If you would be so kind. Welcome to the fire protection industry affairs virtual summit. Today, I'm here with Gus, Gus.

Thanks for coming and being part. Why don't you go ahead and tell us a little bit about yourself. Tell us who you are, where you started, um, how you got to where you are today and, and where you're going or what's next? Yeah, so my name's Gus Gagliardi. I'm a register professional engineer. I work in the, um, construction industry.

I do. Design engineering for a variety of existing and new construction facilities. Um, started off with a degree in fire protection and safety technology from Oklahoma state moved on and had a fire suppression role, right outta college, and, uh, really learned about the nuts and bolts of how to put sprinkler systems together.

Um, spent the last five years almost in my career at, uh, FSB, a pretty large, um, Full service a and E firm in Oklahoma city, the largest, I think Oklahoma city, uh, owned firm. Um, so yeah, a lot of hanger work, a lot of department of defense work, high industrial facilities. And then, uh, yeah, now I just started a new role.

As a fire protection engineer at rated engineering, and I'm gonna be doing a lot of, uh, similar work with the hangers and the DOD work, but also looking to incorporate the full scope of what a fire protection engineer can do as far as work and consulting services. So, yeah, that's a little bit about my elevator pitch.

Oh, and I didn't mention that. Excuse me. Sorry. Uh, I, uh, am the host of, uh, industry first podcast, fire code tech, um, where we discuss everything, fire protection, and we just basically interview professionals. And we also have solar cast episodes where I do deep dives into, um, topics like codes and standards.

Just a variety of fire and life safety topics. So, yeah, that's a bit about my, um, career and background and my elevator pitch. Aaron, thanks for having me. Awesome, man. Thanks for being here. So that sounds starting a new thing is always exciting. So I'm glad that for that for you I'm sure, sure. You have some mixed emotions about that.

Oh yeah. It's been such a blessing. Uh, My last five years at FSB was so awesome, like being a part of a firm that's full service. So I got to, you know, work with structural engineers, electrical engineers, mechanical engineers, you know, architects, interior designers. And so it's been great. Cutting my teeth.

Uh, with projects and getting to collaborate in house with a variety of design professionals and just really just learn so much in the last five years. So it's been tough saying goodbye, uh, these last couple weeks, but super excited for the new gig and the chance to, to lean into fire protection some more and, and really discover, uh, everything that a FPE can do.

So excited. Excited. Yeah. Mix bittersweet. You're right. Awesome. Yep. No I've been in now. Will you have to move or can you stay where you're at and still do the job? No. So my last commute was 18 miles and this next commute is only four miles. So, um, super stoked to get such a good opportunity. And it's, uh, like 10 minutes away from my house.

So with all the lights red, so it's a, it's a good deal. I'm stoked on it. Perfect. Super excited. Awesome. Well, let's get into some other stuff. Thanks for sharing all that. And, um, I'm happy for you and looking forward to the new things that you're gonna be doing. Um, so we're gonna come back to your podcast a little bit later, cause I wanna really dig a little bit deeper into that, into those process and what you do.

But first of all, tell us about some associations or groups that you're involved in and what kind of value that you gained from being involved in those groups? You know, uh, actually I found this most recent job opportunity was through, through professional organizations. I'm part of S F P E. You know, I've been a member of, uh, I'm a member of NFPA and, um, national fire protection association, society of fire protection engineers.

Um, I love professional societies. Um, there's so much benefit to gain from them, like, uh, Business is all about personal connections and business connections and genuine connections. And so a great way to develop those connections and, and maintain that knowledge base that you need as a professional is to be involved in professional societies.

You know, that's kind of a core tenet of what we talk about on the podcast is like how to say professionally relevant and professional societies are a great way to do that. Um, you. Most societies bring in professional leaders to speak about, you know, different topics and things to keep you relevant in what's going on in the industry.

And so there's so much to be gained, um, networking and having the opportunity to, uh, build a web of professionals that you can lean on. If you have problems in the industry, that's invaluable. I. The ability to say, Hey, you know, um, this person that I met, individual that I met, who's a fire suppression contractor, a fire alarm contractor, you know, I'm not knowledgeable on VESA.

Can you, can you help me out in like some of the design practices for this system or, you know, kind of rough order of magnitude pricing for this system. And so you. You really, as a professional to have all the tools that you need for your toolkit, you, in my opinion, have to be involved in professional societies because if you don't, you're not, you're limiting yourself and your options for.

Um, how to solve problems and as a professional, you get paid to solve problems. So, um, that's probably a couple of the biggest advantages I see in being involved in professional societies, I named S F P E N, FPA, a F S a American fire sprinkler association. NFSA national fire sprinkler association, a AA American fire alarm association.

Um, those are probably some of the biggest ones that throw out free webinars and, um, have a lot of relevant system information for my field. they get super niche. You could go all the way down to specific occupancies. Like there's a whole bunch of hanger, specific ones as I'm sure. You know, um, like, uh, MRO facilities.

Sorry, I got fog in my throat. no problem. But yeah. Awesome man. Well, thanks for sharing. That's a lot that I know that alphabet soup can go on for on and on forever. Yeah, no, no, thank you for sharing that and sharing those associations, what they are and kind of what you gained from them. So let's go back a little bit and talk about kind of focus more on the podcast on that podcasting process.

Yeah. So you said you, you, you host and started this podcast, so, so why did you do that? Why did you wanna do that? What kind of gap in industry. Think that it filled. Um, what were your, what were your motivations for starting that and kind of, what were the steps you took to get that started? Yeah, so I, I don't think it, it filled the gap in the industry, but as a professional, a couple years out of, you know, about maybe one or two years into my time at FSB, so maybe like two or three years into being a professional.

I was like, well, I wanna know more. And there's only so many resources that a company can give you while they need to maintain production of what product they are selling. And so as somebody who is, uh, um, somebody who wants to learn and somebody who wants to keep a competitive edge, I just thought, how do I connect with people?

How do I, you know, Make connect these dots. And so for me, I'm an avid podcast listener. And so I took what I knew, which was, um, fire protection engineering and, uh, podcasting. And in the confluence of that area, I thought. Well, maybe I can leverage this to learn more and provide a resource to people like me, you know, uh, who want to know more about the industry, but maybe don't have the facilities to, um, you know, find this information out, you know?

How many times does a two year or three year professional get to reach out to people on NFPA codes and standards and talk to them about the codes and standards process, and you know, how that works and technical related information to those codes and standards. I mean, it has given me a seat at the table in which I would've never.

Um, if I would not have started the podcast and really, I think has accelerated my, um, learning process, like I'd say at least two or three years for, um, you know, just my ability to find out information about topics. So I think, uh, that was a big reason why I started it and, um, you know, the, the gap that it started to fill in the industry, I still think there's a huge gap to fill.

I hope that more people get into. I hope that we can continue to foster this network of professionals who are looking to put out a variety of content around fire and life safety. Um, I'm not somebody who thinks that there is a finite amount of, uh, you know, content or, or consumption for good, good fire and life safety information.

I think the more the, the merrier and I hope more people get into it, but, uh, yeah, as far as steps to get there, um, and. You know, I would tell people that if you have interest in doing something, a blog or a podcast, or, uh, YouTube videos, I'd say just figure it out, just go do it because there is no huge, there is no huge, uh, financial or, uh, technical barrier to go do these things.

Really. The only, uh, barrier to entry is your own volition and time to go do these things. You know, if you have those two things, I think you could get by with, um, a really cheap mic and a cheap computer, and you could probably put something out there that somebody would find interesting and reach out and tell you, Hey man, I think this is awesome.

And if you did it for a couple years, you probably find out that you're starting to get good at it. So. That's my, that's my piece of advice on that. No, thanks for sharing. I like that. You know, you talked about that gave you a seat at the table, and I kind of had the same experience when I started blogging about, I guess it's been about 17 years ago now, or 15 years ago started doing just, you know, regular blogs.

Blogs are kind of new back then. And so, uh, but I, I found the same thing, right? It got, got you a seat at the table. Um, when you're sharing those articles, And comment. I got to interact with people from all over the world instead of just my little community. So definitely, yeah, it did widens your, your scope of influence or your, you know, ability to, to network.

And, you know, like we talked about before connections and. Ability to problem solve. And you know, you talking to me about reaching out to people and getting information for articles. That's so powerful. I mean, like to give you that avenue to do that. Yep, absolutely. Absolutely. So thank you. So, um, How does the, um, how does this kind of the side project, this kind of hobby project, how does it impact your day job and what practical or personal professional benefits have you realized from it?

You know, I would say that on a day to day basis, it's pretty minimal on how it impacts my day job. I mean, Uh, I send out, I'll send out a couple emails a week to invite guests. I spend time on the weekends editing podcasts, maybe like anywhere from two to four hours producing, uh, social media copy, you know, show notes and, uh, Mixing and editing podcasts.

So functionally, that's what it looks like as far as time impact. Of course there was startup energy involved that we're not talking about. This is me in steady state after I've been doing it for coming up on two years in April. Um, but, uh, you know, What has it given me, um, in my career, it's given me so much, um, I don't think that I would have this job opportunity that I do now without the, the knowledge base and like the competitive edge that I've gained from, you know, fostering connections and becoming a professional who has just leaned into, um, networking and trying to be more competitive.

I don't think that I would have the same opportunities. I don't think that I would've, you know, I don't think I would be the professional that I am today without the podcast. So, um, that's kind of a broad statement, but I truly believe that. And, um, cuz you know, you get to a point in your career where, um, you're at a company you may be in a set track of what this experience can bring you.

And so how do you differentiate? Do you get certifications? Do you, you know, um, take on a new. Important valuable skill set, you know, how do you make yourself a more competitive professional? So for me, it's, you know, along with my technical expertise and willing to learn about, um, things in the industry that are difficult and valuable, I think that it is given me a huge advantage, um, over my peers.

But, you know, that's just my 2 cents. I'm sure I'm inflated about that idea. no, it's true. Awesome. Well, thanks. Thank you for sharing. So, um, you do have a lot of great guests on the podcast, and I know we've kind of talked in the past on, you know, how do you get these great guests that come onto your podcasts?

I'm sure you get. You probably get more no's than yeses or get just ignored emails, but how do you get the, the guess that you do have, how do you get them to come onto your podcast and how do you find these two or three people that email every week? You know, I think that it's easier than you think it's, it's easier than you think.

And I'd say my hit ratio is probably closer to like. Like 50 or 60% than like, like, uh, 40 or 30%. Yeah. Um, you'd be surprised. I mean, so people are professionals and they, they are in fire and life safety, their whole lives, and they have fascinating jobs. I I've traveled all across the country. I've been in aircraft hangers that were built in world war II.

You know, I have, you know, worked in probably more than a dozen states, probably closer to 20 states across the us. You think, I don't wanna talk about that. You think that I don't love what I do and I'm not passionate about that. You think other people in the industry who have these great careers and experiences don't want to tell people and give people a leg up for their professional career.

No, you look for the passion. I would say in finding guests, people who, people who are passionate about they, what they do and their involvement in professional societies, those are the people who are interested after a while. You kind of get a sense for who would be interested in this sort of thing. And once you can sniff that out, it's a lot easier to find guests.

Um, I think that there's so many incredible stories, um, in probably a lot of industries, but especially in fire and life safety. And so, um, that process really just looks like a lot of, uh, LinkedIn searches or being knowledgeable about industry related. Uh, Topics or fields and searching through, you know, oh, I read a good magazine article.

Oh, who's the author on this magazine article. Oh, this guy says that he, uh, you know, works at the Smithsonian. Oh, this sounds like a good episode. And so, you know, I reach out to Michael Kilby and. He's gracious enough to come on the podcast and he sits on two NFPA boards or, you know, committees and for one for historical and cultural museums and, uh, another one that I've never heard of, and he's willing to come talk to me about how to protect extremely valuable assets.

And so, um, I think it's easier. It's easier than it sounds. And that's some of that barrier to entry is like how difficult you think it's gonna be. Good. Yeah, that would be the, the fear probably that people have getting started. So thanks for kind of alleviating that for some of us. So, yes. Um, I've been on your show a few times and I've talked to some other people that I've been.

And so the, the, the thing that we all have in common, when we talk about Gus's podcast, Is that Gus is the easiest guy to talk to when we do these shows. So what do you think it is about you or, or your style that makes you so easy to talk to, man? I just, I love people and I've always been interested in personal stories.

Uh, if you don't like people and you don't like talking to people, then podcasting is probably not for you, but for me, I have no trouble talking and I have no trouble being interested in people and really caring. What's going on in their life and, and personally what moves them. Um, I'd listen to, I'd listened.

I've listened to all kinds of podcasts. And I used to, I was learning how to code. So I would listen to this podcast called. I think it was learned to code with me or something. And basically it was all framed around personal life stories and how people have overcome adversity. And, and I always found that so compelling.

So, um, I've taken little bits and pieces of podcasting style and personal interaction that. I've found really touching and compelling. And I try to embody those in, in the podcast that I have. So I think part of it is genuinely I'm interested in this stuff, you know, it really, if you're not interested, it comes across in the podcast.

It's gonna come off flat. You're gonna, it's gonna be weak, you know? It's. Yeah. And people can sense that. And it takes about three seconds for people to sniff. Um, people being not genuine and tune out and log off. And so, um, you know, cuz there's a billion different things for content. You can get these days.

You have to be invested in what you're doing. You have to care, you have to want to talk or else it's not gonna work. Right. Good. Good. So you mentioned some pod you're, you're an avid podcast listener listener. Yeah. What are some, what are some podcasts that you listen to? So I guess I could break it down into like, uh, a number of categories because, you know, I, I vacillate between, uh, you know, Do I want something interesting.

You know, you wanna do something like stuff you should know? Do you wanna laugh? Do you want something like two bears, one cave. It's just, you know, irreverent comedy and kind of ridiculousness. Um, are you, do you have a personal hobby or project you wanna get into? Um, you know, is there something about cooking you wanna know about?

You know, I used to listen to, uh, used to be a great podcast. It's changed host now, but it was like about, uh, people. For who worked for like, I think bone Aite, no, not bone Aite, but uh, some other food magazine in New York, I can't remember, but they would just go over like people's cookbooks and things. So, I mean, I listen to everything you could think of and you know, I'll go through periods where I'm listening to only podcasts and like, you know, I'll burn through like, Six to 10 of these a week easy.

Um, and then I'll switch to something like audiobooks or I'll switch to something like all music or so, um, I think that's why I knew that it was gonna work. Fire code tech was gonna work is cuz I know how I consume podcasts. And I was like, I don't just like one podcast. I like 20 podcasts. And if it's good, I don't care how many podcasts there are.

I'm gonna find time to lean into that content. So, um, . Yeah, that's a little bit of my background on podcast. It's always hard to answer that because I'm always vacillating between, I like the new stuff. As much as I like the, the well-established stuff. There's something fun about being involved when a podcast just starts and you feel like you're a part of something a little bit, um, it's fun to have that like sense of community that people have, even though you really don't know the person at all.

Yeah. Op awesome. Yeah. My thing with the new startups is you get really attached to the show. Then they stop after like five episodes and you, they disappear, you know? Oh yeah. The number one thing, the number one thing with any content is be consistent. If people that's one of the hugest benefits that people get out of podcasts.

I know every Monday. That X podcast comes out and that gives me comfort. And that gives me enjoyment. And I get a sense of relief as I drive to work on Monday. Cuz I get to listen to X podcast. If you can't provide that, then nobody's gonna stick around to hear what you got to say. So first and foremost.

Be consistent. Otherwise you can just forget about it. You, you know, don't even start, don't even start if you don't wanna be consistent because, um, I've seen most podcasts burn out and it makes me sad, honestly, because some people have great potential. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Your, your podcast listening comes to me cut down though, with your new job, your commute, your short commute time.

Now I've thought about that. You can't even really get into a podcast in 10 minutes. I know I was thinking I gotta switch to music now because you gotta get like some sort of pump up, but you can't like really settle into an hour long podcast in 10 minutes. That's right. That's right. I had that thought for sure.

This week I was like, man, but like this cuts into like, Like really getting into a state of mind, going to work. You have to get up early. You have to get up the same time just to get your podcast listening in before you leave. I know, I know. . So tell us a little bit about the practical steps that you actually take.

Like what's the whole process from inviting the guest preparing to actually posting the podcast and then do you do everything or do you outsource some of it to other companies or people? No, I do everything. Uh, I think eventually I will, uh, look at, uh, kicking some of the podcast editing out, but.

Honestly, like, um, for the price of what you get for editing, like it can be anywhere from low cost would be for audio. Only video is a lot more expensive, but, um, the price points for per episode, um, like I think I calculated. I forget what the number was. I calculated how much money on average I spend. And it's like a couple dollars per podcast episode.

If you like, if you cut it down to all of the hosting fees and like everything that I've signed up for whatever email account. And like, if you roll all that into one number and divided by 365, it's like a couple dollars, but that's because. I do all of the editing and all of the media stuff and all of the show notes and everything.

So functionally, what that looks like. I'll send an email out and ask somebody, gauge their interests. Then I will try to establish the date and or schedule time. After there's a scheduled time, I will develop a set of questions. And usually it's easiest for me to think about those questions in categories.

So I'll kind of, uh, broadly think of some categories for fire code tech, generally it's people's story like a technical competency issue or topic, and then professional development. So. If you think about it in those categories? Um, I generally know that it only takes about depending on the person, anywhere from 10 to 15 questions to fill an hour.

Um, but that's highly dependent on the person's, uh, level of skill and level of passion and, um, level of ease in speaking, um, to fill. To fill that hour. So I've had people where I've gotten through maybe like less than four questions. And then I've had people where I've just like, it's pulling teeth and I gotta have like 17 questions to get through an hour.

Okay. Entirely variable on the person. Um, and so I'll, we'll record the episode and then I will, uh, mix and master the audio and compile that and upload it to a hosting website, which distributes it to Spotify, Spotify, apple, uh, Google play. Um, Eight different places and distributes it all in one place. Um, so yeah, that's a little bit about the workflow and then it releases every Monday.

It releases really early in the morning. I don't know why I started that, but it releases at like 2:00 AM on Mondays, but I figured people could have it whenever they start their commute. So I'm consistent and I think that's important, but that's a bit about the process. Awesome. So it also looks like since we're on video, it looks like you're in like your own sound booth.

So tell me a little bit about like what, what you got going on there. The equipment. Oh yeah. I just rigged this up. I just rigged this up by I'm in the process of like getting everything incorporated for video. My brother has a video podcast, so he kind of like. Uh, charge the path on, um, letting me know, like everything you need for video and like, really, if you have a nice camera, which I don't, I'm just using a computer camera, but like you can set up a certain focus and depth of field, but I'd say the elements are lighting.

Um, sound quality. So if you set up sound blankets around a room to really, uh, dampen the noise and give it that studio S sound and then, you know, you have lighting and there's great posts online about how to set up the three different components of lighting or like the like three point lighting it's called.

So there's like, uh, Basically. Yeah, just like a backlight, a key light and like a fo I don't know the terminology, but, um, so I've tried to incorporate that a little bit for this, but, uh, honestly I just threw up all this stuff this morning, but yeah, I'd say. Focus on the sound quality, the lighting and the aesthetic.

Like if I had some knickknacks or something in the background, I think that'd be a lot better, but I don't, I just threw up a sound blanket to give a nice backdrop and have some lighting. So. Awesome. My face isn't washed out. That's right. Awesome, man. So, um, what is, and you've given a lot of tools and I really appreciate that.

Yeah. But to, to the audience today, what's one actionable step that they can go to do today. And they say, I wanna start a podcast. What's the one thing they can go and do right now. And to get started in that direction. Do you need to go record a podcast today? If you wanna do a podcast, don't wait until you're ready.

Don't wait until you get the sign from wherever you wanna get the sign. If you wanna do a podcast, schedule a podcast today, get your buddy, uh, whoever it is, tell him we're doing a podcast. We don't have to release it, but we're gonna do it. And I'm gonna practice my, my skills interviewing or having a conversation or whatever scheme you want for your podcast.

Go do it today because. If you can find a reason not to do it, you're gonna keep finding a reason not to do it. And, um, that is like the other huge hurdle after you've convinced yourself to do one is to convince yourself to post one. And then after you've posted one, make sure you've put yourself in a position to post, um, at the same frequency you've set out.

So I recorded like. Four or six podcasts before I released any, cuz I had no clue how hard it was gonna be to keep a turning backlog of professionals and videos recorded. Um, I don't know if that was necessary. It, what, it's, what made me feel comfortable at the time. Um, but yeah, I'd say if you are interested in doing a podcast.

Grab whatever microphone and or camera you have today and go record one, cuz the first one you're gonna do is gonna be hard and then they'll get easier after that. But um, if you don't, if you don't actually start recording podcasts, You're not a podcaster. So just go do it, go do it because I guarantee you it's easier than what you think it's gonna be.

And there's a billion articles online on how to figure it out. So if you really want it, you can do it. awesome. So I know you're in the, we're gonna change gears a little bit. I just start to kind of wrap things up. You're in the, you're a fire protection engineer you're in that field. So what would you say is the current state of the industry for the fire protection engineering field or the aspiring fire protection engineer?

I'd say I have not in my career experienced a better time, become a fire protection engineer. The industry is absolutely white, hot for career opportunity and a chance to, um, professionally develop and get a good job and have a competitive salary for a good job. So I think that if you have any interest in fire and life safety, and you want to, um, make your foray into the.

Say do it now because the industry is on a bull run. Um, the market's white hot with opportunity. Um, I've never seen it be this good in the last six, six years of being in business. So, um, the industry that even despite the, all of the supply chain disruptions and, um, all of these inherent difficulties with COVID, um, the industry is just.

Chugging away full speed. And I don't know how long that's gonna last. Right now it's incredible, uh, to see the amount of construction that's going on right now and the construction that I've seen, that's, uh, been scheduled for the next, uh, couple years. Um, so, uh, that is what I see happening right now.

Some big topics I see in the industry are batteries. Um, lithium batteries being a big one. Um, You know, uh, what else? Heavy timber construction for like sustainability and kind of environmental impact. That's a huge thing I see right now in the industry, a push on the national scale. Um, yeah, I think a, a big part of thing that I wanna be an advocate for is bringing people into the industry because another trend that I see on the macro level.

A, uh, lack in people coming into the field. I see that the, you know, the program that I came from Oklahoma state produces about anywhere from 40 to 50 candidates a year, and that doesn't even. Scratch the surface of what the industry needs for just FPE like that doesn't even start to, to really, uh, move the needle for, um, what we're gonna need for people getting into fire, alarm, fire, sprinkler, uh, fire protection engineering.

I mean, There's so many jobs and people from my program go into, you know, safety and a lot of other different avenues. So they might go work for a petroleum company or they might go, uh, you know, work for work safety for, um, indu you know, some, a company like international paper or something like that.

Yeah. So, so maybe only. A quarter to a third of those kids are becoming, you know, in the system side of fire and life safety. So it's a huge boom time and it's a super consistent job market. So, um, you know, I would say, please, please, please get involved. There's so much promise and opportunity right now for anybody with competency and it's not too hard to be.

Awesome. Thank you. So we're, we're wrapping up here, um, before we do, is there anything else that you'd like to share or something that you'd like to discuss that we haven't mentioned yet? Feel free to do that now, and then just kind of tell us where, where can people find you? Yeah, I think that, uh, No, as far as topics left.

Um, I think we've covered a lot of good stuff. Um, yeah, just to put a, put a big plug in for the podcast here, uh, fire code tech, you can find it wherever you find podcasts. Like we said before, Spotify, YouTube, apple, Google play. All the above, go find it. Um, there's great topics about, well, whether you like aircraft hangers or fire alarm or fire suppression, or you want some tips and tricks on how to pass your Fe or PE.

There's great information on these podcasts where I get to view interview, uh, professionals like Aaron and people who are absolute leaders in the industry with 30 and 40 years of experience, just given out great, uh, secrets. Not secrets, but just tips and tricks for people to be competitive in the industry.

Also, you can find me on LinkedIn and I'm Gus Gagliardi and, uh, on Twitter at, uh, Gags GU what's G a G Z G U S. So yeah, I think that I've enjoyed the podcast. Aaron, thank you so much for having me and yeah. Would love to do it again. I hope there's another one of these. I hope this becomes an annual gig.

Awesome, man. No, thank you for your words and thank you for sharing and taking your time. So we appreciate it. Thanks a lot, man.

Thanks for listening. Everybody. Be sure to share the episode with a friend, if you enjoyed it, don't forget that fire protection and life safety is serious business. The views and opinions expressed on this podcast are by no means a professional consultation or a codes and standards interpretation. Be sure to contact a licensed professional.

If you are getting involved with fire protection and or life. Thanks again, and we'll see you next time.

Welcome to episode 49 of Fire Code Tech. On this episode we are speaking about everything kitchen fire suppression with Adam Walker. Adam Walker has been with Johnson Controls for 14 years. He currently serves as the global product manager for ANSUL and PYRO-CHEM restaurant fire protection products. Walker is a member of the National Fire Protection Association (NFPA) and is a committee member for NFPA 17: Standard for Dry Chemical Extinguishing Systems, NFPA 17A: Standard for Wet Chemical Extinguishing Systems, and NFPA 96: Standard for Ventilation Control and Fire Protection of Commercial Cooking Operations.  

https://www.ansulred.com/ 

https://www.specansul.com/ 

https://www.ansul.com/en/us/pages/default.aspx 

https://retailrestaurantfb.com/detecting-hotspots/ 

Transcription

Hello, all welcome to the show. I'm Gus Gagliardi, and this is fire code tech on fire code tech. We interview fire protection professionals from all different careers and backgrounds in order to provide insight and a resource for those in the field. My goal is to help you become a more informed fire protection.

Professional fire code tech has interviews with engineers and researchers, fire marshals, and insurance professionals, and highlights topics like codes and standards, engineering systems, professional development, and trending topics in the industry. So if you're someone who wants to know more about fire protection or the fascinating stories of those who are in the field, you're in the right place.

Hello, all welcome to episode 49, a fire code tech on this episode, we're speaking with Adam Walker. Adam is a career professional in kitchen fire suppression and has been with Johnson controls for over 14 years. He's the global product manager for Ansel and power Kim for restaurant fire protection products.

Adam sits on the technical committees for N FDA 17 and FDA 17 a and in FDA 96, that's wet chemical extinguishing systems, dry chemical extinguishing systems. And fire protection for commercial cooking operations. In this episode, we talk about everything. Kitchen fire, suppress. Adam breaks into codes and standards, technical committee procedures.

And also we talk about what is the cutting edge of kitchen fire suppression. We also bring it back to basics in this episode and speak to what are the different types of kitchen fire suppression systems and their actuation methods. Really enjoyed this episode, Adam is encyclopedic in his knowledge about kitchen fire suppression.

If you wanna help out the show, don't forget to subscribe and follow us on social media. Hit that like button. If you're watching on YouTube, let's get into the show. Adam, thank you so much for coming on the show. Welcome fire code tech. Yeah, guys. Thanks for having me. Awesome. Well, I wanted to get started with, um, you telling the listeners a little bit about your background and how you got into fire life safety.

Yeah. Um, you know, it, it started in high school. Um, we had a, a local college that had a program for fire protection engineering, um, and, and they would do kind of show and tells at the various high schools. Had a lot of family in the business being local, um, peaked some interest. So I, I, I followed it and, and here we are today.

So I, I went through that program, um, and then continued on through business as well. Gotcha. Gotcha. Makes sense. Yeah. So like what kind of, um, so you went to school at, was it, uh, what program was it? Was it the Maryland program? No, it was in, uh, little old Marinette Wisconsin, about 60 miles north of green bay, right on the Michigan border.

Um, and it is the only fire protection engineering technology, um, associates program in the world. So we had. Students from all over the globe that would come and attend this program. Um, and, and then they moved it to the green bay, Wisconsin campus. Um, and then due to lack of enrollment have postponed that program.

Oh man, it's unfortunate. It's uh, so few opportunities to go and get a formal education about fire protection, whether it be technology or in engineering. That's sad to hear that. Yeah, absolutely. It was, uh, it, it was a huge, um, progression for it. It was a huge opportunity for Ansel, um, being located where we are, um, Marnet Wisconsin with that tech school right around the corner.

Right. We could get a ton of graduates as employees in the field and essentially hit the ground running. Yeah. It's, uh, I went to school at Oklahoma state university and there's just so few technology programs. I mean, um, across the states, I mean, there's just a handful. So, uh, think there should really be some more of those programs, sad to see that that one didn't pan out.

Yeah, absolutely. But I wanted to ask you about, you know, Your work history a little bit. Uh, could you gimme a little bit of background on, uh, some of the roles that you've held during your time, um, in your career? Yeah, so I, I kind of alluded to my education a little bit there. Right. So right outta high school went into the fire protection engineering program.

Um, started at Ansel, um, in our technical services. Focused on restaurant fire suppression for both the Ansel and pyro chem brands. So I would provide our, our customers with design assistance, technical troubleshooting, design questions, uh, submittal assistance, et cetera. Um, and, and did that for about seven and a half years.

Um, During that, um, I, I was enrolled for business as I also stated earlier, um, and then transitioned essentially over to our product management group. Um, so I've been in this area also about seven and a half years. So coming up on 15 with the company, um, and responsible for our restaurant portfolio globally, uh, with the Ansel and pyro chem brands.

Um, spent some time focused on the sustaining type initiatives, you know, the things that keep the lights on, um, and, and now have sustaining and, and also our NPI focus. Um, so what development opportunities we might have across the globe, what is, uh, NPI stand for? I know anything about sustaining initiatives?

Would you mind elaborating on that? Yeah, sure. So the sustaining type things would be, um, Modifications to existing products, um, product enhancements, basically any changes to essentially existing products. Um, and, and then the MPI would be the development type approach or new product introductions. Um, so ground up development, whether it be technology or, uh, application, um, hazard type, whatever that might be.

Interesting. So it seems like you've really seen the full circle of, you know, technical solutions, business development, and kinda new product launch research seems like you have had a full spectrum of, uh, what kitchen fire suppression has to offer. Yeah. It's, it's been a good career path and progression.

Um, so far I've been able, like you said, been very fortunate to see many different sides of the business. Understanding what our customers need and want, um, understanding what the business needs and wants are. Um, and just driving solutions for all the. Makes sense. Makes sense. Well, yeah, I feel like that's a great preface for our, our conversation on kitchen fire suppression, but, um, for the listeners, I always like to start at just like the roots, the base elements of what system or technical topic we're talking about.

So yeah, I'd love to hear your thoughts on kinda the different, um, types of. Kitchen suppression systems or, you know, broad categories. Um, yeah. Would you speak about these systems? Yeah, so as it relates to kitchen fire suppression and, and talking specifically around commercial applications, um, all about protection of the cooking hazards.

So the appliance cooking surfaces, the duck and plenum area. So the filtration and then the exiting duct work and any secondary filtration. Um, historically there had been dry chemical systems, um, and new codes and standards have obsoleted them. Um, they're, they're not able to pass the current test protocol by the testing agencies, um, which then I.

Wet chemical systems. Um, what chemical have been been around quite a while. Um, and there there's several different manufacturers and types of products on the market. Um, couple high level would be a, a standard wet chemical system where you just have a set amount of agent and it's a, a one and done right.

It discharges. What capacity of tank you. um, and all of that goes through the UL protocols and extinguishes or suppresses the fire and then holds it out for a period of time. Um, another type of product would be a hybrid type system, uh, which would be, uh, an agent followed up by water, essentially. Um, so those, those are really the, the high level overarching types of systems.

Um, As we look at how those kind of break out into different approaches, um, many of the different products on the market, um, have what's called. Hazard specific protection. Yeah, really what I wanted to ask in, follow up, I appreciate that exposition on like, you know, what Kim drag Kim and kind the broad types.

Um, but really I wanted, what I wanted to ask before we kind of proceeded was what's the benefit of that hybrid system with. Water, uh, in conjunction with that wet chemical agent. Uh, yeah. What do you see as advantages or, or considerations for that kinda of system? Yeah. Um, so a hybrid type product, specifically a system, um, that type of a product.

Has the agent capacity and then it's followed up immediately by water for cooling. Um, so some of the benefits of that is number one, it cools 15 times faster than a standard what chemical system. Um, in addition, it uses less agent, um, and it also has some protection benefits. Um, so larger protection areas per Nozz.

Interesting. Very interesting. I, uh, I wasn't aware of that hybrid type system. Yeah. So I wanted to break into, um, some more design features of kitchen fire suppression, and just, uh, ask you, you know, what kind of different approaches or considerations can. Um, use in order to give the user or the operator flexibility and, or kinda like modular design with kitchen fire expression.

Yeah. So when we look at protection of appliances, um, we always have to take into account couple different factors. Um, some of those factors being. The, the chef's height, the chef's tolerance and ability to cook, right. Without nozzles and pipe drops in their way. Um, so typically you're looking to get your nozzles as high as you can tucked up in the hood out of the way of the chef, the there's many different types of hoods as it relates to proximity.

Um, so some low profile hoods where your nozzles have to be lower to the hazard or closer to the hazard area. Um, some canopy type hoods that Mount on the ceiling or even ceiling ventilation, uh, where the entire ceiling in the facility is ventilation equipment and filtration, uh, where you want your nozzles to be as high as the ceiling height.

Uh, so many different approaches as we look at that factor. Um, and then something else that we offer is called overlapping protection. So overlapping protection, um, has nozzles. Set at specific spacings, um, puts in certain criteria, right? As far as the hazard size, that can be protected by that nozzle spacing.

And it allows the appliances to be exchanged, moved around. Um, at any point, if they hire a different chef or the chef changes the preferences, the, the appliance line needs to shift and they could, they could not have to make nozzle. Shifts or changes if they had overlapping because it's, it's more of a blanket type approach and coverage where that whole area is covered.

Yeah. That makes sense. I wanted ask about, you know, as far as like trade coordination, The installation and or design of these systems, what all like engineering disciplines or like kinda utility connections. Are you looking for, for one of these kitchen suppression? It seems like. Definitely you'd be working with, um, mechanicals and electricals to get it powered and, you know, fire protection to, uh, wire up the fire alarm.

But yeah, I'd like to hear about, you know, what all you view is design considerations when looking at a space programmatically for implementing a hood. Yeah. So. When, when a hood is installed, um, and fire suppression is needed. Um, and or at the time of hood installation, when, when they're looking to connect the fire system or install a fire system, um, it's, it's essentially all the same trades.

Um, no matter what the fire system or product is, and no matter what they're protecting or connecting to it is just where. Things are specifically connected. Um, so you walk into a commercial kitchen. You're, you're gonna have codes that require you to have fuel shutdown. So whether it be electric or gas, you're gonna have to have that fuel shutdown.

You're gonna have to have energy shut for heating elements, um, electricity, some jurisdictions require lights in the hood to be shut down. Fans to turn on or shut off depending if it's makeup, air or exhaust. Um, so when we look at trades associated to that, you're, you're gonna have typically a plumber. Um, if you're having a, a mechanical or an electrical gas valve installed.

So if you have gas fueled appliances, you're gonna have that approach. Um, you're going to have an electrician depending if the system needs electricity to operate, or if there's. Electrical shutdown, um, triggering of electronics, whatever that might be. And then you may also need a low voltage alarm technician.

If you're landing wires on a, a building management system, uh, fire alarm control panel, or anything of such. So those are really the, the high level trades that you're gonna need for installing a fire system. Awesome. Yeah, I appreciate that. Um, I wanted to ask you, I read a interesting article and I'll link to it down the show notes for people to go read if they would like, but about that, you wrote about how COVID has impacted kitchen, fire, suppression design.

And I really wanted to hear from you, you. How have you seen COVID change what we're seeing in kitchen, fire suppression. And also what I thought was really interesting, those kind of like broader the COVID was, um, operations, like Uber eats and DoorDash and these type of things, these quote unquote ghost kitchens.

So yeah. I'd love to hear about, um, yeah. What you're seeing in that regard. Yeah. So COVID impact, you know, It accelerated a lot of things. It, it changed a lot of things. It, it, it just shifted some, some topics, right. And one of those being ghost kitchens specifically, um, so the application where you have a large facility and you might have 40 different hood systems or kitchens inside of that facility, and you have 40 different.

Uh, restaurants under that roof, right? Each of the 40 different kitchen systems, uh, has a different restaurant. And the value of that is you can go pick up food from multiple different restaurants with actually without having to stop it, all of them, um, or an Uber eats can go there and pick up food, right.

And deliver it to various residents. Um, Depending on what they want to eat on the other side, the, the chains or the, the mom and pop or whatever the restaurant under that roof is doesn't have to have a brick and mortar, uh, store and the cost associated to such. So those were around, um, pre COVID, but C absolutely accelerated the growth and, and use of them.

Um, so as we worked through COVID and, and still are in many cases, um, people are resistant to go out and eat. Um, they don't wanna be around others as much. Um, I think some of that's opening up now, but we're still seeing it. Um, and I don't think it's gonna go away. Um, people have seen the value of not having to spend time on cooking and not having to spend time on eating.

By sitting down at a restaurant, they can have the value of both by just picking up food or having it delivered. Um, so that's definitely a shift in being accelerated by COVID another one being food trucks. Um, a lot of food trucks were around prior, but again, accelerated through COVID. Um, people are able to just stop and grab a bite to eat outside, not having to go in inside.

potential exposures, more likely to occur or whatever that might be. Uh, but they, they tend to feel more comfortable outside in, in an open air atmosphere. Um, so. A lot of growth there. And again, I think we'll see that continue to grow as well. Very interesting. Yeah. I guess I never thought about the, um, idea of having so many different operations under one roof.

That's a very interesting concept. I was really just thinking of like, Uh, how Uber eats and door dash kinda changed that equation of the eating experience. But yeah, there's some good points to bring up about, uh, Uber eats and food trucks changing the landscape of changing the landscape of the eating experience and, and also the fire and life safety hazard.

So I wanted to talk to you about, it seems like it's a commonly, um, Misattributed or misdesigned factor for kitchen fire suppression systems, but, um, yeah. Would you speak about the difference between class one and class two hoods because I've commonly seen them uh miscategorized or, you know, misapplied yeah.

Type one hoods, um, really specific to grease type applications, grease, laid, and vapors. Uh, many appliances that are, are gonna be creating those things, um, and, and type two really designed for extraction of heat and steam. Um, so, you know, what's the difference is why is it so important that you use the appropriate hood for the application?

Um, construction, design requirements, design criteria. Um, so thickness of the stainless steel welded, sea construction, um, ventilation, so filters and ducting, et cetera. Um, all of those are specific criteria and requirements on the applicable type of hood. Um, so when you have a type one priest producing type hood, you're gonna also have fire suppression in that, um, type two hoods, typically do not.

However, some cases, uh, authorities want to see it. If they have some steam or heat producing appliances that they're gonna be cooking in, um, but are not necessarily a ranger of fryer. I see. I see. It's commonly when you're working on. You know, kitchen design and it's the, the owner maybe wanted to argue it's, uh, more of a residential type application, but yeah, I've seen that as a common point of confusion or, you know, just, uh, an education piece for the owner a lot of times.

So I appreciate you speaking on that. Yeah. I, uh, always love talking about the, the codes and standards. Associated with the different fire and life safety topics. Would you, would you give, uh, an, an overview of what kinda codes and standards there are on kitchen fire suppression? Yeah, there's, there's a couple that are applicable.

Um, and, and, you know, it's, it's all regional based. So speaking specifically for the us environment, um, with NFPA 96, which is the standard for ventilation control. Fire protection of commercial cooking operations. Um, that standard is really focused on the ventilation aspect of the system. You know, the hood construction, hood installation requirements, stuff like that.

Um, but there is a chapter in there that's focused on fire suppression. Um, and then if we look at the, the actual fire suppression standard, um, we have NFPA 17 a, which is the standard for wet chemical extinguishing. Um, and that standard is really going to provide a lot of insight on, um, requirements of the system.

You know, you have to have manual automatic activation, simultaneous operations, stuff like that. Um, it's gonna clearly identify a lot of those requirements and then kind of the overarching, you know, the building code, um, that that's really gonna provide a little lot of insight. What needs to be done, how it needs to be done and, and just more generic approach of the overall design installation of a building.

Yeah. It seems like, uh, not as well versed, but, um, 17, like has cash, um, big impact on these systems and their components for commercial cooking operations. And. I understand that you have some involvement with the, the standards production process. I, I would be interested in hearing about that. Yeah, correct.

Uh, I'm a, um, principal committee member voting member for NFPA 17, 17 a and also N F P 96. Um, so sit on those committees. Um, we, we, you know, take the public input. Um, vote on it as a committee to incorporate it in the standard or not why we should, why we shouldn't, um, and you know, just common sense and data driven decisions on what's good.

What changes are needed for the industry. Um, as we look at different things that might occur, um, throughout the cycle process, things that we might need to include in the body, the standard that's not there. Um, but makes sense from a life Sandy life safety standpoint, um, those are things that we evaluate and, and talk about and vote on.

That makes sense. How long have you been involved in the committee process? Um, I've been involved in the process. Um, initially started as a, a sideline attendee, just a guest in the room. Um, then that went into. Becoming an alternate, uh, and a couple of the standards and then became principal on essentially both of them.

And, um, over the duration, probably about eight to nine years in total. Wow. Nice. What, uh, it seems like on, you know, standards progression, um, you know, depending on the, how. Uh, detailed the standard is there can be, seems like huge progression year to year or, you know, kind tweaks and changes clarifications on some years.

But yeah. What kind changes have you seen during your time on the C?

Um, you're right. It, it varies year by year. Um, typically it's a, a three to four year. Cycle, uh, between start of the cycle and, and completion of the addition. Um, and, and through those cycles, we've, we've seen like the evolution of food trucks, um, how we need to incorporate specific things. Um, there was a, the terrible propane explosion, um, which prompted some additional safety clauses to be added in.

And then some more section. Um, and then on 17 a where it's a wet chemical standard. Um, we chemical as a whole, right? Not just restaurant fire suppression. So then we look at different types of wet chemical suppression across different categories, whether it be vehicle fire suppression. Um, so we look at incorporating.

Those types of hazards into the standard as well. So it seems like, you know, looking at data from. Uh, organizations like N FPA kitchens are, uh, you know, a really common place for, for fire to start. Like, how does that impact? It seems like you have a, a pretty broad perspective for, um, the nature of the hazard in these kind of occupancies and different spaces.

So, um, yeah. How does that impact the, like the design and the, and the, and the considerations for. Um, these facilities that you're working in. Yeah. When, when we look at a fire suppression system, um, so the actual application, the coverages, the functionality operation of the system is all driven by the test standard, right?

So that would be the UL document or the NC standard. Um, UL 300 is the restaurant test standard. And all of that is going to dictate on how and what you need to test. Um, so that that's assuring that the system is gonna work. Um, and then when you look at a standard, such as N F P a 17, a and 96, they're going to tell you.

This is what you need to have. You have to have manual actuation, you have to have automatic actuation. You have to have battery backup if it's electronic or redundant, feasible link detection. Um, so, you know, it's, it's really mandating how it's applied. Um, and, and what requirements are there. Whereas the, the UL standard is already determined that your system is appropriate and tested in accordance to that anti standard.

That makes sense. Um, I wanted to, to about, uh, the different actuation methods, cause it seems like there is at least a couple different types. Um, since you mentioned actuation manual and automatic in little, uh, piece of talk about the, the two different types of actuation and just kind of, you know, and I understand there's like mechanical and electronic and you also, you know, mentioned manual.

If you could talk about that and like, you know, kind of what those look like functionally for these systems. Yeah. So when, when we talk about actuation of, of the system, um, there there's essentially two types, right? There's automatic and manual. Um, both of which can be electronic or mechanical. So automatic being the detection method, whatever technology and type you're using, um, and then manual being.

Physically somebody manually actuating it, whether they're pulling or pushing something, um, pushing a button, whatever that might be, um, all of which are essentially gonna have the same outcome. Um, so a couple different types of systems on the market would be a cartridge operated approach or a stored pressure type product.

Um, and they're gonna have the same outcome. Like I said, the agent is gonna be expelled through the nozzles discharging onto the hazard surface. Um, but the, the means for doing that, so detector detects temperature triggers the system either opens a valve or punctures, a cartridge pressurizes the tank, or allows the agent to flow comes out of the nozzles and, and suppresses the.

And essentially the same would occur in the event of a pull or a mechanical or a manual operation. Um, you're actuating it intentionally or unintentionally, uh, by accident, right. Um, cart pushes into it, whatever that might be. Um, but the, the system operates in the same fashion. So either opens a valve or punctures, a cartridge, pressurizes the tank, or let's the agent flow.

Out to the piping network and out of the nozzles onto the surface. Nice. That makes sense. I wanted to speak to you about, um, inspection, testing and maintenance for these systems, because it seems like this is a topic that can be crucial for the proper activation and the just longevity of this kind of fire suppression application.

Um, yeah. Would you speak about like common maintenance or testing or inspection, um, features or considerations for these systems? Yeah. Each manufacturer is gonna have a, a, a set list of items, um, that have to occur some of that mandated by N FPA standards. Some of it mandated by UL standards. Um, And, and really essentially what it comes down to is you're having to test the operation of the system and look for any type of defects depending on what the interval is.

So semi-annually, you're, you're changing or testing depending on what type of detection technology you have. Um, you're you're checking agent levels or weights or pressures, Wayne cartridges. If present, um, testing the poll stations. Ability to function. So you're, you're either pulling it or pushing it or pushing a button, whatever it it offers.

Um, and then you you're really just going through the entire workings of the system. Right. You're making sure that the, the fuel shut down is operating as it should, whether it be mechanical or electrical shut. Um, and then you have various components depending on what manufacturer. That have to be replaced at those intervals.

So you talked a little bit about, you know, integrating with building automation systems. But, uh, yeah, I just wanted to question you a little bit more on, you know, how these systems kinda interface with fire alarm panels or, uh, building automation systems. What does that typically look like? Yeah, it depends on, on the system.

Um, generally speaking, there's a, there's a contact closure device in the system that has the ability to. Send a signal of some type to a fire alarm control panel or a, a building control panel. Um, one type of a technology development is the info red product that has the ability to incorporate up to 16 different hazard zones back to one centralized display unit.

Um, so you have a real time status. All the different hazards. If there's a trouble, if there's an alarm, if there's a discharge, a supervisory, whatever that might be back to that centralized location, and also has the ability to connect to these building fire alarm panels. So if you have a, a building fire alarm panel, that's monitoring the entire facility, you can also tap into that as well.

Nice. Yeah, that sounds like a very, uh, interesting system type with the, you know, kind of zone detection. Um, I wanted to ask you, you know, like what kind technology or features can give owners some additional options for asset protection? Yeah. I just touched on it, uh, briefly that, so our, our new product ANFL red.

Stands for restaurant electric detection, um, is front of its game as far as ability for scalability, uh, real time alerts. So giving those end users, owner operators a sense of security, knowing that their system is up and running, know that everything is working properly, um, identifies those critical maintenance intervals that we just talked about.

It gives alerts, Hey, this is coming due for maintenance. Get this prepared, et cetera, so that they can plan, um, for an upcoming type maintenance, um, technology is being able to react to fire, whether it be quicker, uh, whether it be different types of hazards or multiple hazards all back into the same single system.

Interesting. Yeah, that definitely sounds like a, a more, uh, smart, like, uh, internet of things, approach to kitchen, fire expression. I haven't, um, had a chance to see, uh, like how new is this product? It seems like it's pretty cutting. Yeah. It's been on the market for about two years now. Okay. So pretty good.

Cool. Well, um, what kinda, you know, if, if you wanna give an owner like some different thresholds of protection or like, Uh, tiers of delivery, like what are the kind of different options in a system that you see as an escalation of like protection or, you know, uh, how would you articulate, um, different.

Protection approaches or, you know, like how would you take a client from the, like the Cadillac option? So it sounds like, you know, the smart technology and the zone of detection and suppression is, you know, kinda high, but yeah. Be interested in hearing how you would, um, go through that process. Yeah. It's a lot of understanding what, what the end user or owner operator's looking for.

um, so when, when we look at like a, a red approach that it can be used for a single hood application, or it can be used for a 16 hood application, um, we have a lot of installs of both and, and both work grade and, and the end users are very happy with their investment in it. Um, When you might take a different approach and you look at a wet chemical system, that's where you have to, to make your decision.

So whether it be a steroid pressure or a cartridge operated system, um, there's trade offs as it relates to coverages. Um, there's not. One that has a gamut of coverages that are better than the other. Um, but certain applications offer better protection schemes or more coverage per nozzle. Um, and then obviously the we'll say a step up would be the overlapping option where you can have all of the appliances shift as you need it without having to make modifications to the appliance lineup or.

The nozzle line rather. Um, what do you see as you know, are there things technology wise on the horizon that you're excited about? You know, you talked a little bit about how you're new or your most recent role kind, um, like development or technology G kinda, uh, Research procedures, but yeah. Is there anything that's you see on the horizon or maybe five, 10 years out that you are excited about in this kinda technology realm?

You know, there's a lot of excitement in the industry and, and it pertains to new technology development and also new cooking technologies. Um, so. Things are becoming more efficient. Um, you might be using less oils, but wanna have the same taste or you wanna cook it faster or you wanna have less pollution.

Uh, so a, a lot of, a lot of great things happening, um, different parts of the world, but specifically in the us, all of the above that I just mentioned and, and all of that is exciting as it relates to, we get to be tasked. How can we protect these changing appliance cooking technologies? That makes sense.

It seems like, uh, you know, uh, people are pushing the envelope more than ever now with, um, getting creative with cooking and kind of, you know, see people doing this molecular astronomy type of thing on the, on the internet. And so I could imagine how that would present. Unique hazards and, and unique applications.

So we talked a little bit about and what COVID has done, but I wanted to get a sense from you about broadly in the industry, what you see as trends or topics that you have your. Um, a lot of it, believe it or not is, is the same things as, as the COVID trends. Um, the ghost kitchens that it's growing greatly, um, everywhere.

They're, they're seeing the value of having multiple facilities under one roof. And again, not having to have that brick and mortar cost, um, food trucks. on the increase, right? That that's been happening for years. Don't see it stopping, um, a lot of self-contained type approaches, products, um, front of house cooking, some more aesthetically pleasing environments where, um, the chef might be cooking on the other side of the glass or right under a hood in front of all of the patrons that are eating.

So a lot of those type applications. Interesting. Yeah. That makes sense. So, you know, you spoke about your, uh, involvement with N and the committees and standards process, but, um, are there other professional societies that you're involved with and, um, what kind, you know, uh, can you speak to the, the value of those different professional organizations?

Um, um, also. Certified through NSET, um, national Institute, a certification engineering technologies, um, and, and there's various categories under them. Uh, fire alarm, special hazards, sprinklers. Um, and there's, there's a lot of merit to that. Um, as it relates to ensuring that. The installing person or persons, um, meet certain criteria, have been trained on different products.

And just to make sure that the, the installation is gonna go in accordance with whatever codes or whatever mandates there are alongside of all manufacturers requirements. Yeah, that's a great tip. I said is a, is a big deal. Um, especially for people who are looking to provide a. Professional, uh, edge in their career.

They wanna use accreditation for, um, career and professional development. Yeah, for sure. Um, yeah. So seems like you are very well informed on, you know, special hazards and kitchen fire suppression, but where do you like to go to, um, you know, brush up on, uh, technical content or resources? You know, it really depends on what the topic is.

I, I obviously spend a lot of time with NFPA involvement, which drives me to different studies, as it relates to industry trends, cooking type of trends, whatever those type of additional or new changing hazards are. Um, and there's a whole list of those types of. Websites or magazines that I use. Um, and then as it relates to building codes, um, we, we have the building code document and we can review all of the updates and the changes and make, make, uh, recommendations where needed, um, As it relates to specific products.

Um, so when we look to our, um, AJS fire marshals that are looking to gather insight on, on products, you know, technical data sheets, technical literature, um, us specifically, we obviously. anl.com, um, which is a, a great resource for all of the, up to date technical literature on all of our products, not just restaurant, fire suppression, like you said.

Um, then we also have two other sites that are critical. So one of 'em being spec ansel.com, um, S P C ansel.com. And on that website, we have all of our specifications, um, all of our technical data. Very one stop shop, go grab what you need and, and see what we have to offer. And then also Ansel red.com, which is that new red product that I was talking about.

Uh, very nice overview video, and then also all of the, the technical and, and marketing literature available on that product as well. Awesome. Yeah, I'll throw some links down in the shot notes for those, for the people who are interested. I wanted to ask. And, uh, you, this might be outta left field, but, um, do you guys have like, uh, like Revit models or bit models for some of these kitchen hood systems, if architects or engineers were looking to incorporate specific an hoods, uh, their, um, 3d design.

Yeah, we do, depending on, on what the, the product is and, and what the component is. Um, those can be found on those links that we just talked about. Um, and then if there's a specific one that's needed, our technical support group, um, is a great asset for that. And can likely get that component developed for whoever needs.

Yeah. So I wanted to ask you a bit more about the UL standards surrounding these kitchen suppression systems. Since they seem to be a huge component in, um, you know, how these systems get used and which ones are applicable. So. I didn't know if you had any more thoughts on, uh, UL 300 or how that, uh, how those standards are laid out and how that kinda impacts, um, product development and that sort of thing.

Yeah. We have to keep all those things, um, in mind as we develop products, um, depending on what type of product it is, you might have to grab clauses out of different standards. Um, UL 300. Specifically focuses on restaurant fire suppression and, and the testing protocol around suppressing the fire on, on the cooking appliances.

So it's gonna tell you what type of appliance needs to be used, how you like the fire heat up rates. Cool down rates, hold out time, et cetera, grease, loading, whatever that might be. Um, and then you would look at like a UL 1250. If you wanna know the, the details around the mechanical options or the mechanical offerings and functionality of the system.

So how many times you have to cycle the system? How many times you have to make sure it operates? What, uh, whatever other criteria mechanical wise would be in that standard. Um, then as you look at electronics, you might have to pull data outta UL 8 64, which is gonna pertain more to the releasing type panels.

So when we're developing product, we, we have to keep our blinders off. We have to look at all of these various applicable standards and make sure that we're compliant and can meet, can meet whatever is needed or whatever changes, make sure that they're realistic and, and will be approved or needed, et cetera.

And in many cases, we're looking to enhance life safety. Never reduce it. And so is there ever a situation in which you're developing these, you know, new products with, with smart fire protection in, in which they, you have to get involved with, like the creation of, of a new UL standard or is it all just kind of fall in line with existing fire suppression, UL listing saying, you know, electronic listings.

Um, it really depends. Um, so we do have employees on the STP. Uh, so the, the development group for the various UL standards or NC standards, um, providing that insight influence in some direction in many, um, and, and also the other side of it, where we might have a specific application. That might not be black and white in the standard.

Um, isn't going to wait to go through a standard revision or implementation or adoption. So we'll work with UL or that body to come up with a test protocol and program applicable to the hazard. Interesting. Very interesting. Well, uh, Adam, is there anything else that you'd like to talk about, uh, that I didn't cover or, uh, anything you'd like to ask me?

No, I, I just want to, you know, genuinely thank you for the time. Um, it is, it's been great and I hope that we've, we've had some discussion that'll influence or encourage, encourage the industry, um, provided those resources from our products and. Hope everyone will take a look at 'em. Yeah, definitely working people.

Uh, is there like a good contact or, you know, is, is the email the best for people to go or mean not email, but is the website the best for people to go? They need, you know, technical help or from, uh, you or from Ansel? Yeah, it is. Um, so if they go to ansel.com, um, they'll be able to get in contact with our tech service group or customer service.

Or sales for that, uh, whatever specific function they need to tap into. All of those contacts will be on there via email. Awesome. Well, Adam, thank you so much for coming on the podcast and yeah, it was awesome. They really got into some great detail on, um, the technical part of it and also also projected to the future and you know, what the industry kind hold for these unique, uh, fire protection systems.

Yeah. Thank you for the time. We'll speak soon. Thanks for listening, everybody. Be sure to share the episode with a friend, if you enjoyed it, don't forget that fire protection and life safety is serious business. The views and opinions expressed on this podcast are by no means a professional consultation or a codes and standards interpretation.

Be sure to contact a licensed professional. If you are getting involved with fire protection and or life safety. Thanks again, and we'll see you next time.

Welcome to episode 31 of the solocast of Fire Code Tech! On this episode we are talking about professional development. We speak about professional societies, technical resources and how to cultivate a mentor mentee relationship. Understanding how to continue to hone your skills professionally and to keep appraised of the fire and life safety environment is of critical importance.

Fire Protection Summit

https://fireprotection.kartra.com/affiliates/344035

Joe Meyer: https://www.meyerfire.com/

Chris Campbell: https://www.buildingcode.blog/

Jose Oliveira: https://diroots.com/

Transcription

Hello. Welcome to the solo cast of fire code tech in these episodes. It's just gonna be me, your host, Gus Gagliardi. There's gonna be a range of topics, but I'm gonna talk about specific technologies, installation, standards, codes, and how they work as well as some other interesting topics that don't neatly fit inside of the context of a normal I.

Hello. All welcome to episode 30, one of fire code tech on this episode, we're talking about professional development. Yes. I think that professional development has always been a theme in fire code tech. So I wanted to take a moment today to speak to you all about some lessons learned that I have found over the last two years of producing the podcast today.

I want to talk about the benefits of understanding. Professional societies, technical resources, mentorship, building continuous development and professional credentialing. If you're listening to this episode, when it comes out, you can go check out another podcast by me, a video podcast with Erin Johnson.

Where we speak on the fire protection industry affairs, virtual summit. And we get to talk about, uh, an interview with me in a podcast and basically go over some of the different things I've learned, starting the podcast, and some tips for those who would have any interests in starting a podcast of their own.

So, yeah, I'll add a link down in the show notes, if you want to check that out today. And, uh, if you miss. And you still wanna view the, the podcast? Uh, I believe I'm gonna have a chance to release it later, or you can, uh, buy a seat if it's the week after the week of the 21st of March in 2022, and go watch this, uh, podcast there as well.

Don't forget to subscribe. So you never miss an episode and follow us on social media. Oh. And if you want to give us a rate and review where you listen to your podcast, that would be huge. So today we're talking about professional, uh, development or professional advancement. So what does that mean? So to me, professional development is how as a professional, do you continue to hone your skills and be appraised of what is happening in the industry and really keep a finger on the pulse of what is going on and continue to develop.

So I've broken it down into a couple different categories. The first one I wanna speak about, and I talk about this on a lot of different fire code take interview episodes is professional societies. So why I always recommend. People joining and getting involved with professional societies is because there is so much to be gained from a personal level, from a network and building social skills level.

It's really a great place to hone your skills, to communicate and show a bit of community involvement. So professional societies are a huge benefit to not only you as a professional, but also it's a good way to give back being an extremely, technically competent professional is important, but what's more important is the ability to make connections and to, uh, build relationships that will last a career in a life.

Participating in professional societies is a great way to be knowledgeable about your local community of fire protection and professionals. And also you can even go broader than that to a national or global perspective in your professional societal involvement. I've had our opportunity to be involved in my local S FPE chapter and work on, uh, fundraising for.

You know, events where we are raising money for, for scholarships. And also it's been a great opportunity for me to make professional connections, whether it's in order to problem solve, like making connections with people in different areas of the fire and life safety community, like those who are technicians or authorities having jurisdictions.

It's a great way to build your personal and professional network. Professional societies are generally starved for people who are interested to get involved and to, you know, really be a part of moving the organization forward. So if you really do have interest in getting involved, I guarantee there's going to be an easy way for you to do that.

If you have a local community and. I bet if you stick around for a couple years, you could even be on one of the committee chairs or on the board because, you know, uh, it takes time and effort to be involved in these societies and people have busy lives. So if you want to reap some of the rewards and benefits of being involved in these professional societies, there's a low barrier to entry.

The next subject I wanted to talk about is technical resources. So what does this mean? So this kind of pairs along with professional societies in that, you know, where do you go to consume content about, um, new trends or new technology in fire and life safety? So these can, you know, coincide with, uh, some of the other topics, but really, I just wanted to speak about, you know, The big two or the big three in the us at least are, you know, NFPA national fire protection association, SS S F P E the society for fire protection engineers and probably, uh, ICC the international code council.

These are three huge organizations in the us and really kind of drive, uh, or are. Integrally involved in policy change and codes and standards change. So being, uh, knowledgeable about their websites and how to navigate their resources. You know, I like to speak a lot on the fact that NFPA documents are, uh, available for free online.

So any NFPA you can think of, you can go find it online for free. If you just sign up for an. And the same goes for ICC. If you need something from the building code, uh, there are a variety of places you can go. One of them is the ICC website and another place is, uh, is a alternative website like up codes who has online codes available for you to use for problem solving, which I do frequently.

And S F P E frequently produces resources like webinars, free webinars. And you. FPE extra is also an interesting read about once a month. They'll put out an article, also have independent professionals or like bloggers who produce really interesting content on fire and life safety. A couple of my favorite are Joe Meyer who produces Meyer fire.

Chris Campbell who produces the building code blog, and then Jose Oliviera, who has been a guest on fire code tech. If you go back and take a look at episode 30, I guess all these have been a guest on fire code tech. So, um, I'm a fan of these professionals and the resources they put out, and that's why I've had 'em on the podcast.

So, um, I'll add some links to their stuff. But, yeah. And then there are specific technology organizations like American fire alarm association. National fire sprinkler association and American fire sprinklers association. So that's AF AA, N FSA and a FSA. And these companies are professional organizations put out, uh, free resources sometimes and paid resources out all the time.

And they're really good. By people who sit on the committees and really have deep seated knowledge of how the codes and standards process and, and structure works. So those are great technical resources to be appraised of. I wanted to talk on mentorship building or, you know, Developing a relationship, you know, a mentor, a mentee relationship, not only for your benefit, but for the benefit of others.

You know, I think that in my career I have gained from, you know, mentoring and being mentored. By other professionals and it's been one of the best resources in my career. So finding someone who has a disposition for cultivating professionals or being a constructive member of a team and somebody who is not just interested in getting the job done, but also interested in building people up is a great benefit.

You know, I give people the advice frequently to, you know, find someone in your professional network who has the temperament to be a mentor, you know, not everybody has this. Ability to focus on what somebody needs to learn or steps, you know, to, to build upon. So it's a kind of active process of probing your professional and personal network in order to find, uh, somebody who's a good fit with you on a personal level and on a professional level to, uh, help each other out.

I like to tell people that it is not a one race. Mentorship is not a one way street. So you need to bring something to the table as a mentee. Uh, you can't just always come with your hand out. So what you can do is, you know, If you're asking for something, you know, you can try to give it a on it. Doesn't always have to be a transactional relationship, but it is important to, you know, treat people as a friend, treat people as, you know, an equal and to not just always treat it as professionally transactional because.

After a while that doesn't create a long term relationship that just creates like, oh, so, and so is approaching me again with something that they need and they always approach me with something that they need. So, um, really the more meaningful, long term picture of that relationship looks like. You know, a friendship, you know, you have a ex, a standing rapport with somebody and you talk to them at some set interval.

And then in the instance, in which you do need something, it's just like talking to a friend and approaching them about. You know, a different, uh, topic or subject in their life. It's not like a, Hey, I just need this thing from you. And then I'm just gonna disconnect and not speak to you again for another six months.

And then when I need something else, I'll talk to you. Then, you know, people sometimes get discouraged and. I just want to say, you know, if at first you don't find somebody who is the right fit for you for a mentor relationship, you know, keep trying, uh, don't get discouraged because sometimes you're not gonna find it inside your company.

Sometimes you might have to look outside of your immediate personal network and maybe reach out to people online. Maybe, you know, think about where you would like your career to go and what you need to learn to get there and re reach out to the professionals and maybe your, your, you know, social media network or in other places to kind of build that knowledge resource that you are looking for.

Um, so this is something that's been extremely beneficial in my professional career is, you know, if you have something that you're. Uh, passionate about, and you want to learn about find somebody who shares that passion in the industry and reach out to them in a, you know, a very transparent and open manner.

Explain to them, you know, kind of like what your goals and intentions are and then yeah. Kind, try to build that rapport by reaching out to people. Well, I apologize. That was a bit of stream of consciousness, but I think I'm gonna stop there for now. We didn't get into, we only got into about half of the topics I wanted to speak about, but.

Thank you guys so much for listening. Stay tuned. We got some really big stuff coming in the next couple weeks we got the virtual affairs summit and we have the, you know, joint episode with ack on the fire safety or the fire science show. Excuse me. And so those are gonna be awesome and I hope you're gonna enjoy 'em and so, yeah, keep an eye.

We got some cool stuff coming. Thank you guys for listening. Don't forget. Do subscribe, subscribe, subscribe. And we will talk to you next time. Thanks for listening everybody. Be sure to share the episode with a friend, if you enjoyed it, don't forget that fire protection and life safety is serious business.

The views and opinions expressed on this podcast are by no means a professional consultation or a codes and standards interpretation. Be sure to contact a licensed professional. If you are getting involved. Fire protection and or life safety. Thanks again. And we'll see you next time.

On this weeks episode of Fire Code Tech we are speaking with Roddy Macdonald. We speak about his time in the fire service and his various entrepreneurial pursuits. In addition the podcast covers fire safety plans and the code structure in Canada.

Transcription

Hello, all welcome to the show. I'm Gus Gagliardi, and this is fire code tech on fire code tech. We interview fire protection professionals from all different careers and backgrounds in order to provide insight and a resource for those in the field. My goal is to help you become a more informed fire protection.

Professional fire code tech has interviews with engineers and researchers, fire marshals, and insurance professionals, and highlights topics like codes and standards, engineering systems, professional development, and trending topics in the industry. So if you're someone who wants to know more about fire protection or the fascinating stories of those who are in the field, you're in the right place.

Roddy, welcome to the show. Thanks so much for coming on fire code. Thanks GU I really appreciate you, uh, inviting me on, uh, it's it's a pleasure. Awesome. Well, I always like to give listeners a sense of, you know, your background and kind of how you discovered fire and life safety. Would you mind giving me a little bit of, um, discussion on that?

Uh, yeah, absolutely. This actually might be the. The longest part of the podcast was the history of how, how people get to where they, where they land today. Right. So, sure. Um, just to give a little, uh, I guess a quick background to, to some of the listeners I'm, I'm up in, uh, I'm up in Canada, uh, a couple hours outside of, uh, uh, kind of sandwiched in between Toronto and Detroit, uh, on the great lakes.

And, and, uh, so when I started my, my career in fire fighting. Uh, before that I was, uh, I was a licensed plumber, you know, went from high school. Didn't really wanna do the college route thing. And I, I immediately got a trade, uh, as a plumber. And I, and I did that for a lot of years and kind of back when I did it, um, we ran our own sprinkler piping and we, we ran a lot of stamp pipe and, and, uh, worked under kind of like a, a shop ticket.

Like the, the, the, uh, the company would have one. Um, you know, ticket to do any of those kinds of installations and you really didn't need to go to, you know, sprinkler school or anything to, to do the stuff that we were doing at the time you just learned on, on the fly. But I, I got a good sense of, you know, what the systems were about.

And I, although I enjoyed the plumbing. uh, the, the fire systems, the sprinkler systems were, were really, you know, they seemed more grand than, than what I was doing. I mean, you know, you look at the other trades on big job sites and, and you, you wonder what they're doing. And the, and the sprinkler stuff was really, it was really cool stuff.

Um, but you didn't really need to have a whole lot of training back then, uh, at least for the, the, uh, the installations that we were doing. And then as the years got on before I got out of plumbing, Um, it, it got more prominent where, uh, you, I did on bigger jobs with large sprinkler, um, uh, outfits that were doing the installations.

And they were like, to me, they were kinda like. God, they rolled in with all their, all their, uh, equipment, all their, all their, uh, manpower. And, and they were, they were, you know, installing systems that I had never really even seen before. And they were, you know, uh, large scale hospitals, uh, factories, uh, schools, stuff like that.

I did a lot of, uh, industrial plumbing. Um, and it just, it, you. Fir first, uh, firsthand look at, uh, some of the LIC things that they were putting in. I used to do the threaded, uh, large threaded stuff, uh, um, you know, working on big eight, 10 inch sprinkler mains that were all threaded. It wasn't fun. I can tell you that , uh, you know, working with big, uh, six foot pipe wrenches and, and it was, it was difficult stuff back then when I first started out.

And then, you know, as the years go on, you see some of these sprinkler companies come in. With LIC, uh, fittings, you LIC fittings, whatever. Like it just, it looked way more, well, it looked way, way easier. That's for sure. But, uh, um, the style and the, the, uh, um, the design that they were doing, I, I hadn't seen it before.

Uh, so it, it really, it really intrigued me and that was my first kind of taste. Um, fire systems in, in that regard, uh, you know, I, I would see the, the electricians and the fire alarm installers doing their thing, that, that, that wasn't really up my alley. Didn't really pay a whole lot attention to it. Cuz I, I was more of a, um, working with pipe and the sprinkler stuff really, really, uh, you know, took on my fancy if you wanted to say in that regard.

But so from, from there, uh, as I went on the years, uh, on the tools as a plumber, it was difficult on the body. Um, I, I thought I needed a change because, uh, in that kind of trade role, you know, as you get older, there's only so many jobs you can get in an office setting as an estimator, whatever, like there's only so many jobs to be had or, or you're on the tools for a lot longer and it's, and it's tougher on your body.

So I thought. Um, I, this is gonna sound cliche in Canada, but I played hockey with a, with a lot of guys that were already firefighters, uh, in, in my, kind of my hometown. Some jobs were coming up and, and they had, you know, they had said, you know, with your background, uh, as a tradesperson, you should, you should apply for it.

Um, and, and I did, I, I started to apply around, uh, some of the, the larger centers around myself, uh, in the small town of Stratford where I grew up, uh, you know, Toronto was hiring. Um, some larger centers like that, but I had no idea, uh, yeah, I would get a, an application for, and this is, this would be up your alley.

I'd get an application for, you know, show me your history. Do you know anything about hydraulics or whatever? I, I didn't know what hydraulics were. I didn't know any of it really. Um, so, you know, as years go on, you learn about what hydraulics really are. Uh, so. I started to apply. I really got the fever for it.

Um, and then luckily I got on in, in my hometown. So I got on as a firefighter in my hometown. That's how I started, um, in, in the, in the fire world. If, if you wanna say, and I did that for eight years and there was a transition in my life where I needed to, to get off shift and, and do a day job. I, I needed a day shift, um, for my family.

So I switched to a fire prevention. and I'll, I'll be honest with you. I switched to a fire prevention role for all the wrong reasons. I, I needed a day shift, but it turned out as years. Go on. It's. It it's, it's a great career as a fire prevention officer, you know, once you really start to dive into the code, once you start to meet the fire prevention officers and, uh, and other station chiefs and people in and around your area, and they kind of guide you along and, and help you learn the code will be kind of the, the, the, the basic, the Bible of what you need to know to do your job well.

Um, it, it, it got really interesting and, and, and, you know, you in our, in our. Department, uh, you'd have to take, uh, the courses, the provincial courses through. We have, uh, an office of the fire marshal, much like, uh, the, the states, uh, do all the states, uh, down in United States and the, and the provinces up here in Canada.

Each, each province has its own, uh, fire marshals, um, training center, if you want to call it that. And, uh, so once I started to take the courses. , uh, it, it was, it was really cool stuff. It was, it was really cool stuff. I already had that kind of background of, of building knowledge and cons some construction knowledge.

And, and I, I had a good sense of when I, I married it up with the fire code. It, it, you know, I, I was making a lot of sense of. When I was back on those job sites, what the sprinkler, uh, installers were, were doing and why, what the fire alarm techs were doing and why, like, why were they were installing it certain ways, you know, why devices were so far apart, why all that kind of stuff started to kind of make sense.

And so it's, I, I kind of got moving towards, um, my career in that fire prevention world. Uh, and I've been doing that since two, th I was been a, uh, in the fire department since, uh, 2000. uh, left the suppression division for fire prevention in 2011. Uh, so it's, it's been, uh, it's been 11 years and then I'm actually making another transition.

Uh, right now I'm a chief fire prevention officer. Uh, that's what I've, I've worked up to, to become. Um, and in that kind of world, you need to be that Jack of all, all trades. Uh, but I'm certainly not a master of, of none. And, and. You know, so with that, when COVID happened, uh, just, just prior to, to when COVID happened, I was approving some fire safety plans in, in my, in my area.

Uh, a large Toronto firm was, was in, you know, my little town of Stratford, uh, doing some, some new construction and I approved some fire safety plans. And it turned out that, uh, this company had a, had an older gentleman that was kind of getting out of it. He was looking to get out and kind of passed the torch.

And we got along great, uh, through the approval process of these fire safety plans. And so through some conversation, he asked if I wanted to start doing some fire safety plans for, for them and, and, uh, Ty typically. And, and I don't know if some of your past guests have said this, but typically as a fire prevention, You make your way through your career.

I have about 10 more years left until I can retire. You make your way through your career. Um, and then you retire and then you kind of do this on the side. You do a couple of plans, you know, we call it, do a couple fire safety plans here and there for people. And it's just kind of keeps your, your, uh, mind sharp in the code and you know, a little bit extra cash and all that kind of stuff.

So I didn't expect to start doing fire safety plans, uh, as a little side business. When I was still in my forties, basically. So it, it, it worked out well. I got, I got some plans, um, started with them, uh, some, uh, some plans approved with them and, and I got a, kind of a taste for life in the private sector.

And, and, you know, as I moved through with this company that was outta Toronto, uh, it went from fire safety plans to, well, what El, you know, what other services can you offer? What we can do. You know, uh, maybe some alternative solutions or we can do some fire code consulting if there's some, you know, property managers or building owners or whatever that have had.

Uh, we call 'em inspection orders up here, or, or a notice of violation against the code. If they've had a notice of violation from other fire prevention officers in the, in the, uh, province, how do you, how do you mitigate those and how do you come into Compli compliance and help customers out that way? So I kind of got a, uh, a different feel for life on the other side of, of, uh, as a fire permission officer into that little public sector thing, um, or sorry, the private sector, uh, part.

so, so COVID hits, uh, and this company kind of slowed down a bit and we weren't, uh, busy at all. And I, I thought, you know, I'm gonna, I'm gonna try this on my own. I, I, I have, uh, I think some good, you know, customer skills. I like chatting with people. I have some, some good knowledge I could use. Uh, I have some connections with, with people through, you know, other fire safety.

Um, professionals that, uh, you know, I can, I can give this thing and go and, and try my own company. And I, and I did that. Um, my first company was on tariff fire safety plans and, and it, and it went well. And as I kind of moved along, it was just the fire safety plan stuff that I was doing, uh, for, for buildings and it, and it worked out well.

And it was really, uh, it was really neat to try to. I mean, it was a struggle at the time I look back, it was kind of neat to try to source out, uh, you know, drafting people to do drawings for these fire safety plans and, um, to, to gain more customers and do cold calls and emails and, and do that kind of, uh, boots to the ground.

Part of not just, you know, completing your job. Well, fire safety plans, a service that you offer, but also starting a business. And kind of learning marketing and doing your own accounting. And it was, it was a bit of a struggle, but like when I look back at it, I'm a lot better for it, for, for how I am today, uh, with, with a new company and I'll get into that.

But, um, it's just, you know, something was different every day and I, and I really enjoyed that. So, so I, I took my skills from being a plumber to a firefighter. To fire prevention. Uh, and, and now I'm moving back out of fire prevention. I've, I've, I'll be leaving that role at the end of March to go back into suppression as an officer and in our department, we work a, a 24 hour shift, uh, seven to 8, 24 hours shifts a month.

Um, so that gets me back into the trucks, but it also frees up some, some time with my days off in between shifts that I can really. Grow the company that we're working on. Uh, now, so, so with, with that, uh, transition from my first company, Ontario fire safety plans, um, and getting some connections, uh, there was a company iner that had the connections and had the, um, the business knowledge, but they might not have had the fire code background.

So at the end of the day, with, with this other company that I was subcontracting to. We decided to merge together. And in that we created, uh, a new company, a new brand called guardian fire consulting group. And honestly, this thing has, has blown up. Um, I, I can't believe, I can't believe the, the amount of customers, the amount of, um, you know, Information that we've been able to, to compile into, you know, new websites and, and reaching out to, to like fellows like yourself.

It it's been a great learning experience to work your way through the, the business world in that sense. And it's kind of culminated to this guardian fire consulting group. And, uh, and I mean, that's, that's where I'm at today. It's, it's been a, it's been a long enjoyable road. Um, Lots of mistakes on the way.

I mean, if you don't make any mistakes, that means you're not trying out there. Right. So lots of mistakes on the, on the way, but it's, it's been great. And that's why we're, we're here today with, uh, guardian fire consulting group. And, um, you know, I was like you had mentioned before when we were chatting before the, the, uh, podcast started, uh, your, your podcast, you know, are in the morning time when people are commuting to work.

And, and I drive an hour to the fire station, uh, for my fire prevention role. And that's how I got onto your, your podcast. And, uh, you know, it's just, it's, it's really enjoyable to, to, to gather that, you know, knowledge from other, other people and other, uh, sectors of the, the fire safety, uh, world, if you wanna, uh, call it that.

And, and that's, and that's why I reached out to you just because I, I I'd seen some people, there was a fellow by the name of Aaron Johnson that was on. uh, episode 41, I think it was. And I, I don't know, Aaron Johnson only through LinkedIn and, and , you know, this, the, the LinkedIn world is a great, a great way to, to network and, and, uh, you know, listen to other people's stories and, and maybe gather some more information on there.

But what I, when I started to, I reached out to Aaron and said, are you, you know, are you on Gus's podcast? He said, you know, it was a great experience. And I listened to it. It was, it was fantastic, but it. The the, what I, what I find with, with, um, trying to get better at the business part of it, or just trying, trying to be a better fire prevention officer or better code consultant is that when you, you think, you know what you read the code, you read the standards and, and you think you have a good handle on it.

But then when you, when you listen to somebody else, talk about it. It's, it's, it sounds a little bit different. You have a different spin on it. You look at things differently when people explain, explain it in different ways and you kind of wonder. you know, were, were you looking at the code reference the same way, or you kind of question yourself, but not, not in a bad way.

You just wanna make sure that you are, uh, you you're the best that you can be at the fire code consulting part of it or, or whatever your, your niche is. Um, so when I started listening to your podcast and listening to other individuals, explain their, you know, fire safety background or, or, you know, you know, whatever, it, it.

It made me wanna learn more. It made me wanna listen more to other people and grow that way. And, and that's, um, that's the reason why I reached out to you is cuz I, I hope that in this discussion with myself today, somebody else that might wanna start a business or somebody else that might wanna move from a suppression division into fire prevention or public educa, any of that kind of stuff, it, it might, uh, in my head, somebody, um, You know, get into that fire, fire prevention world and also make a difference.

So, uh, it kind of, it all, it all culminates into that. Um, and that's, so that's been my road to, to where we're sitting day. Um, and, and it's been enjoyable. Let me tell you. Yeah, man. That's a great, uh, love hearing about, you know, kind of the origin story of your career and couple of different roles you've held up till now.

And yeah. Just about your, your journey as an entrepreneur. Uh, I really, um, enjoy hearing about that. It's, it's something that, um, you know, why I got into doing these podcasts. People's stories, uh, like you're saying are inspiring to me and make me want to, to learn more and to, and to do better. So that's the whole reason why I got into this thing.

So I definitely understand what you're saying. Um, yeah, I wanted to clarify for some of the listeners, um, like what is a fire safety plan? Because this has a little bit different of a meaning in the us on what that is. Um, I don't, you know, we have 'em in specific buildings, but we might not have them in, um, every building, it seems like it's a more common feature in Canada.

It, it is. Yeah, we now, so on the Ontario fire code part, um, we reference for the most part, the national fire code, how close the national fire code is to the international code. I'm not a hundred percent sure. I know there's a, there's a more similarities than not, but in Ontario, on the Ontario fire code side, uh, buildings that are assembly occupancies, Uh, need a fire safety plan.

So I'll just kind of rhyme off all the ones that would need a fire safety plan, maybe a couple examples. So, uh, assembly, occupancies, churches, you know, restaurants over over 30 people, um, uh, sitting schools, uh, care, occupancies, hospitals, uh, care and treatment occupancies. We, we have a lot of, um, vulnerable occupancies.

Uh, we call them here. So what had happened years ago? Uh, we had some nursing home fires and it was, it was, uh, and there was some deaths, um, fire related deaths in that, and, and it was found that, uh, we needed to sharpen up some of the, um, you know, some of the code references to, to assist with that, that part of the code, the, uh, the vulner bancy.

So, uh, a vulner see, as something like a, a hospital or, or, or a nursing home where if more than two people need assistance. Uh, and in case of a fire, uh, then that, that kind of kicks in that vulner bureaucracy or the, the VO that we call them. So that that's a care and treatment occupancy type, uh, which would need a fire safety plan, uh, detention occupancies, residential occupancies, with more than 10 people sleeping.

Um, so that'd be like, um, uh, we call 'em nine eights or nine fives, but, uh, some duplexes, some, some plexes multi-unit dwellings that, uh, have more than 10 people sleeping, uh, retirement homes. Uh, businesses and personal services with occupant loads that exceed 300. You're looking at the, the lows home Depot Walmarts.

They, they would need, uh, fire safety plans up here as well. Um, same with market tile. Occupa sees over 300, uh, occupa load. Uh, and then you get into some high, medium, and low how's your bus buildings, uh, high hazard, your buildings. Um, you know, maybe something that would, uh, have a lot of flammable combustible, uh, liquids in it.

If you have more than 25, um, occupant load in those buildings, you need a fire safety plan, uh, in a medium hazard, you need more than a hundred, uh, uh, occupant load for a fire safety plan. And in a low hazard, you need more than 300, so that we have a lot of, um, we have a lot of automotive manufacturing in our, in our area.

Um, we're kind of, we're close to. Uh, to Detroit with our, with our highway systems in Toronto. And, uh, um, the auto industry is, is kind of big in this area as well. So there's a lot of manufacturing where some of those buildings can get up, you know, into the thousands of, of employees. So those, those ones would also need fire safety plans.

So what a fire safety plan is kind of divided in half, um, part of it is for the fire crew showing up. So this fire safety plan that would be approved by the, the HJ. um, it would be posted by the fire alarm panel, uh, at the, at the principal entrance, uh, usually in a fire safety plan box. And when the fire crews show up, if there's an incident of fire emergency, uh, the incident commander can take that fire safety plan out and it would have all the.

Human hotted, uh, information, all the, uh, people that are in charge of that building phone numbers. Um, you know, if it was in the middle of the night and, and the building was unoccupied at the time, they know who to call to get people there, key holders, um, you know, it would have. Part of the, the drawings that would go along with this fire safety plan, it would have a site plan drawing that would show where the gas shutoff is, where the sprinkler shutoff is, where the fire alarm, uh, panel and control panel is.

Um, things like that, the main electrical panel, any hazards that might be in that, that building can be identified on those, on those drawings. And then depending on, you know, if you have a, you know, let's say a high rise building, uh, you're gonna have a site plan showing that building and all the shutoff.

You're gonna have any underground parking. Uh, you're gonna have all the floors that are, uh, you know, drawn out, um, going forward with the suites and the, the corridors and exits and poll stations and just showing all those kind of things that the instant commander and the crew would need to know, you know, where the fire hose cabinets are, all that kind of stuff.

So that that's one half of the fire safety plan. The other half is for the owner of that building or the supervisory staff. So who's in charge of that. to, to train off of what do you do in the case of emergency? Um, who's in charge, uh, you know, um, if it's a residential building, uh, let's say a condominium, uh, it's the supervisor, staff, or the owner's responsibility to, to make it aware to those residents, how to get out where your exits are, um, what to do in case of a fire.

Or who to call. So that's kind of the, the divide in the line of what a fire safety plan is. One of it's for the fire crew showing up, uh, to know what to do and what that building, um, has, has as far as hazards or, um, uh, as far as fire and life safety equipment. And, and then the other half is for the owner or the supervisory.

To know what to do in, in case of emergency emergency who's who's in charge and to have a plan, um, you know, it's I say this, I say this to a lot of people, like what's, what's kind of the, the frequent thing that you always say to people for, for fire safety and it's, and it's knowing your two ways out, uh, and that the fire safety plan kind of entails that, but whether I'm talking to a kindergarten class, And going over the little home fire escape plans, or if I'm talking to a common board with, with, uh, you know, elderly people that still need to know what their, what their two ways out are and have a plan it's the practice makes perfect part.

So a, a fire safety plan encompasses all of that. Um, if there's any changes to the building, it needs to be updated. Uh, drawings need to be updated and resubmitted to the aha for review and approval. And then it's the supervisory staff or the owners of those buildings that need to review it annually and make sure that they're practicing their two ways out, practicing their fire drills.

And what to do. And, and a lot of times in our area, uh, we have some, you know, when I mention the vulnerable disease, they'll all have fire safety plans. Um, we do fire drills, annually, annually with their, with, uh, the supervisory staffs and the owners there. Um, we witness 'em, they have to do 'em at a certain, uh, time period.

It's a, it's a time drill. Um, a lot of the time the fire crews show up because they're vulnerable buildings and vulner. um, people inside those buildings and, and it's, it's, it's good for everybody to at least do it annually on, uh, on those buildings O other buildings like it for fire safety plans. So I, I, I can't stress enough that if, if, uh, you're unsure, if you need a fire safety plan, reach out to your HJ, uh, they love to help, uh, to, to make sure because.

At the end of the day there there's, I mean, not everybody lives in a, in a, an area where you have a career department, uh, and, and, uh, fire prevention, people that can drive over in a matter of min minutes and help you out. You might have, you know, you might have somebody, um, Uh, like the, uh, the other fellow on your podcast there, the last podcast from, from Montana, you know, some of those areas, you might have one person as a fire permission officer.

Uh, they can't get everywhere at once. Uh it's you know, they don't have the resources to help out, but, uh, that might be where a co consulting company comes into play as well. That that can help you out to see if you need a fire safety plan. Um, so depending on your area, depending on, uh, the building you're.

Uh, make sure that you either have a fire safety plan that's updated, or if you're, if you're not quite, uh, quite sure to reach out to your HJ and, and, uh, see if you, uh, you, you can, I mean, you get to some of these large centers. Uh, I mean, I would say the, the Torontos in our area, they, the fire prevention officers can't get everywhere at once there's buildings that don't have plans to get out.

They, they haven't had their systems checked annually. Like they should. Um, so it it's, it's, uh, it's an onus on the owner to, to get that, uh, done and to make sure their building's up to code. Um, but, uh, and to make sure that they have a fire safety plan as well, that's update. Yeah. Yeah, that makes sense. Uh, I appreciate that, um, that it's twofold for the building owner and for the, uh, emergency personnel that are gonna be operating in the building.

So yeah, that makes a lot of sense on that part of it. So as like, uh, a fire prevention officer for a fire department, . So what does that role look like in Canada? Are you reviewing shop drawings for, uh, professionals, like, um, for fire suppression and fire alarm? Are they coming through your office and like, are you getting to review those or are you mainly looking at fire safety plans or is it really a, a kind of, a bit of everything?

Like, uh, yeah, I'd just like to hear more about what that role looks like on the public level. Yeah on the public level. And I can, I can speak on, on, uh, we're we're, we're a medium size, uh, city, um, 40,000 people. What I review are more fire safety plans. We'll get into site plan review. So new buildings that are gonna be construction, uh, sorry, constructed in our area, um, will be brought in from the building department's, uh, standpoint to review that doesn't need a fire.

You know, um, uh, private fire hydrants, do they need a fire safety plan? Uh, you know, any, any, uh, hazards that that building might have that we can raise a red flag for then in that site plan review part. So, you know, so we do the fire safety plan or, sorry, the, um, The site plan review for that. Uh, typically it's the building departments in our area that do the, the plan review, reviewing the shop drawings, reviewing, um, you know, the electrical mechanical drawings that might, uh, entail all the sprinkler design, electrical design.

We, we really lean on our, on our. Professional engineers to, you know, have the calculations, correct. Um, have the systems designed correctly, that's, you know, we, we really lean on that and those, those, um, professional stamps, you know, mean a great deal, uh, to us in, in Ontario. And, and, you know, we, we have site plan reviews, uh, when these buildings are being built and we have a chance to ask questions, uh, you know, it's, it's changed a little bit with COVID.

We used to. Go to a, a city building where we would all meet, you know, the owner of the building that is gonna be doing the construction. The, uh, you know, the, uh, the hydro department would come, fire department would come building department and we'd all, you know, do a round table discussion and, and raise any red flags there.

But in the, in the larger centers, like I would say the Torontos, um, they have specific plans, uh, review people. That would, would do that. They work for the fire, uh, prevention division, but they do plans review only. Uh, and they're, they're very good at that. Very skilled at, uh, knowing when to catch any, anything that might come up in the O uh, I say the C the Ontario building building code, or the, uh, the fire code as well.

Yeah, that's a good, that's a good spot to transition and talk a little bit more about, um, the codes and standards. I know you, you spoke a little bit before on how fire safety plans are required by, um, the building code, but yeah, I'd love, I'm always so fascinated to hear about people working in different jurisdictions that I'm not as well.

Versed in, you know, how they navigate codes and standards, but would love to hear about you speak a little bit more about, um, just like broadly high level overview, what that structure looks like, um, in Canada or in your, uh, province more specifically, I'm sure it'd be easier for you to speak to that instead of nationally.

Yeah. I mean, I, I can. I can speak on the Ontario fire code, which is based on our national fire code, uh, of Canada. And, and I, I was, I'm pretty well versed at that. I'd like to, I I'd like to say I have a, a good handle on that, but I mean, as guardian fire consulting group grew, we grew nationally. So we also do work in Manitoba, Alberta, and British Columbia and, and those.

Provinces, uh, go off the national fire code. Uh, there's some similarities, but there's, you know, Ontario fire code is a little bit more stringent, um, a little bit more, uh, uh, intricate in certain areas and that's not to take away from the national fire code, any stretch. Um, so it's, it is really neat. Uh, when I'm, you know, uh, I haven't, you know, flown out to those other provinces.

We have. We have connections out there that do some boots on the ground inspections or whatever for us. But when I get chatting with the other AJS in Edmonton or, um, you know, Victoria, BC, it's really neat to hear their side of what, uh, they need out of their, their part of the code. Uh, so, you know, across the country, different provinces might need different, uh, different little.

Uh, intricacies within their code to, to help them out kind of thing. So we, we work off the national fire code and with each provincial code being a little bit more, um, intricate to their needs. Um, and with that, like in, in the Ontario fire code, we have a lot of, uh, we call them can ULC standards of Canadian UN writers, laboratory of Canada standard.

So when fire alarm systems are installed, smoke alarms, any textiles used in buildings, uh, open air tents, any of that kind of stuff, we need it to be created or, or manufactured under a, a, a can ULC standard. We call it, you know, and that, that is, that is broadened off of the UL standards from, from the states.

And I'll, I'll be quite honest with you from a Canadian fire prevention officer standpoint. There's a lot of connections to, to the United States, as far as how further ahead you are with some fire protection standards. So there's, there's a lot of references in our codes to, uh, a can ULC or a, uh, underwriter laboratory standard that we look for in, in compliance with, uh, some parts of the code.

Um, and then like for, for our, uh, for our, our fire code and our. Our legal requirements. We work under a fire protection and prevention act. There's, there's an act at the front of, of our code. I I'm pretty sure it's the same down in the states. Can I, am I correct in saying that, that, uh, Each state would have its its own code.

And in that they work under an act. Yeah. So it is the way it kind of works in the states is like each state has its own adoption of the building code, the international building code and they have specific amendments. So they kind of each accept, oh, we accept 2015 or 2018 edition of the building code.

And we have these specific amendments at the state level or at the city level. And so it, it's kind of all under, uh, certain municipal code that gives it the force of law. So I think that's what you're speaking to. Yeah. Yeah. That's that's it, it gives us our. Our, you know, rights of entry or it gives us, you know, what a, uh, what a chief's duties are, what a, what a, um, um, an AJ's duties are.

So we work under that, that act, that act, uh, you know, gives us our, our, our framework for what, uh, we can and cannot do. Uh, and then, like I said before, um, our province has a fire marshal's office and that's who we train. Through, uh, we were doing a provincial training curriculum before and we switched to the NFPA curriculum, uh, which, which is terrific.

So we work off of, of IFTA. Um, and I'm gonna, I'm gonna mess up that acronym, but you know, the international fire, you know what I mean? So we work office to, uh, we train off. Um, so there's, there's a lot of similarities between our code and our standards and what has come out of the us. Uh, we have a, we, I can speak specifically in Stratford where we have, um, a feeder company and four feeder buildings in town.

Um, quite, uh, I know quite famous in our area do a lot of Shakespearean plays and stuff like that. And when they do a lot of, um, like flame proofing of textiles, Uh, the, the curtains that they use to, you know, divide the, the crowd from the stage and any, any standards that they come to our office for, for approval.

It, it is usually tenfold above and beyond what our standards might be. They, they use a lot of California standards, uh, in the, in the feeder world. I'm not too sure exactly why, but the California standard is pretty, uh, is pretty thrill and stringent and, uh, yeah, and, and quite safe. So. You know, we, we see a lot of, we see a lot of blending between our, our Canadian code and standards, um, which I'm sure in, in that history has come from from the us side.

So, um, there are, there are a lot of similarities, uh, maybe just some different terms and acronyms that we use, but, um, that that's basically what we work off. Oh, yeah, very cool. I appreciate that. Appreciate that explanation on, you know, uh, the codes and standards since that's the bread and butter. What we do, but it's like, feels like it's in a different world.

And like, I'm totally outta my element when I'm hearing you talking about this stuff. Um, but yeah, I appreciate that. Yeah. Um, I wanted to talk to you a bit more about like, just your experience, you know, being an entrepreneur and starting in like this in endeavor during the pandemic, like, man, that sounds like a really wild ride.

I'd love to hear some more about just like the nuts and bolts about you figuring that out, like challenges that you had and. The different things you had to overcome during that process? It sounds like it was, uh, a lot, it, it was a lot and it, it was enjoyable. I mean, if, if anybody's gonna start a, uh, you know, a company be an entrepreneur, starting a, during a pandemic is, is a good way to learn some quick lessons.

But, um, I mean, like I had mentioned before I had started working for, for another firm and the, the problem was. So with, with our company, we have careered fire prevention officers that work with us. So they're all subcontracted out. So if it's slow, like through the pandemic was because I I'll say like, from, from my fire department, we were working remotely.

We got shut, shut down and worked remotely, uh, three different times. For, you know, let's say a span of two to three months. So there was no, there was no fire inspectors really boots to the ground that were doing inspections and, and making owners, uh, come into compliance. So it wasn't as busy as I wanted it to be.

Right. Like, you know, I, I, wasn't doing it for my end and you know, the customers that I wanted to work for, weren't getting. You know, and your request from AHJs to get work done, fire safety plans or code reviews or any of that kind of stuff. Right. So, but, but it was almost a blessing in disguise because it allowed me some time to figure out.

I mean, I, I, wasn't a good computer guy. I had to figure out how to. Do word perfect. And, and PDF, you know, uh, fire safety plan. And I get really proficient with computers. So it allowed me time to do that. It allowed me time to build my, my LinkedIn portfolio and to reach out to people like yourself or, you know, anybody in, in our area and, and.

To, to, to get a good sense of what other entrepreneurs are doing and, and try to navigate, you know, not really recreate the wheel and try to offer anything different because as cool as the fire prevention world is, you know, there's only so much you can do, right. And you, you just want to get really good at that.

So trying to get that network of people in place that, uh, can kind of help. And I can say, you know, Uh, the more people I reached out to were people that already had companies and were already, uh, along the, the line along the way, like people in, uh, you've heard of, uh, Jensen Hughes and mm-hmm Morrison.

Hershfield like they're in international kind of co consulting companies. Mm-hmm they're, you know, I, I started reaching out to the. To the big dogs, if you want to call it and, and to find out what, what, what do you gotta do to get not to where you are? I didn't, I don't want to get that large of, of a company, but, you know, they must have done something right.

To get to the size they were at. So, you know, I got that network, uh, in place as far as, uh, being able to comfortably reach out to people and, and get answers back, um, marketing, you know, I'm not a social media guy completely, but you know, you, you start doing your own post and getting your name out there.

And then it turns into accounting. You know, you, you're making some money now, you gotta do your accounting and you have to incorporate, you know, get a, get an accountant and you figure out how to, uh, become a corporation and, and do all those kind of steps to make sure you're doing, you know, I mean the IRS down there, but it's, uh, the CRA the Canadian revenue agency up here, you wanna make sure that you don't tick them off.

Right. So sure. It it's, it's been growth. I mean, I had some grandeur in my head that, you know, as these other, uh, individuals and companies I reached out for, I, I could see, you know, I'm trying to be an entrepreneur, so you wanna make some money at it. Right. So I'm seeing these other companies that were quite large and pulling in some big figures and.

And I was humbled quite quickly to learn that it's, it's, it's gotta grow organically. You, you can't do the leaps and bounds and try to offer more than, than you can. Um, you know, you, if, if you offer a service and some large company wants to hire you, you had to make sure that you have the players at the table to be able to offer that, that service, or you.

As much as we're in the internet world. And, and it seems like it's, it's a large world, the word of mouth, part of it gets around quite quickly. So you wanna make sure that you have a, a really good brand. So when I, when I connected with this other, this other firm, uh, when I was Ontario fire safety plans and they were who they were, and we branded a guardian, uh, there was a fellow by the name of Robert Hennig that that was running, uh, his company, um, an older gentleman, he they're older than.

And, and, uh, he really helped me learn a lot about, you know, keeping it slow, customer service, getting a good brand, like just, just slowing down and having it grow organically. And that that's been huge cuz you know, I I'm a goer. I, I, you know, I get up in the morning and I want to go all day long and it's, and that's the way I've, I'm I'm hardwired.

But when it comes to the entrepreneurial stuff, You can do that to a point when you're starting to reach out for new connections and stuff like that. But when you really are sitting down, talking to people and trying to, to, um, you know, discuss what you can do for them, you, you really gotta slow it down and, and, uh, and make sure that you, you know, you're open and honest and you treat it one customer at a time.

So that, that, that growth organically through this pandemic. Has actually helped quite a bit to, you know, if it was super busy, you know, there wasn't a pandemic going on and, and for whatever reason I was getting jobs left right. And center, I might not have found, you know, all the tools in the toolbox to, to be a good business person.

So when things might have got tough, I would've known how to deal with it. Right. So. Going going at it slow. You know, you, you hear a lot of these, I mean, I'm on, you know, LinkedIn or Instagram or whatever, and you hear, hear all these little soundbites of all these entrepreneurs about it. Does. It sounds easy, you know, just do this, just do that.

And you'll be rolling in this and you'll be doing that. And it's, and it's, and it's not. And I hope, I hope people believe the fact that when you wanna become an entrepreneur and, and start your own business, um, it's, it's gonna be a slow go, but it's you. It's a marathon. It's not, it's not a race. So I'm finding that and I'm getting in a good state of mind, a good, a good, uh, a frame of mind to, to, to go the long game.

Um, I mean, people might have an I an idea of a date of when they wanna retire, I'm gonna be 60 and I wanna retire. I don't, I don't think that way it's I want to do this as long as I can. Um, you know, I'm, I'm gonna be hitting 50. You know, it doesn't doesn't matter. Or when you're turning 60 that you just shut the door and, and, you know, you're done with your entrepreneurial life and you, you you've, uh, you're done with the business.

Like you're only gonna get better as years go on. I mean, I've, I could say this wholeheartedly, that when I started in the fire prevention world and you know, I was 12, or let's say 10 years into it, and I thought I'm gonna do my own business. I know enough. I didn't know, near what I thought I should know.

So when you started reaching out to other people, listening to podcasts like yourselves and, and, uh, you know, trying, trying to brand you, you quickly realized that this fire protection world fire prevention, public education, it's massive. And there's so many layers to it. That yes, I'm an entrepreneur. Yes.

I have my own business. Yes. We're we're growing quite nicely. But we're just in the incipient stage like this, there there's a lot to know. Um, and, and I can say to other entrepreneurs as. We have nine services that we offer, uh, anything from the fire safety plans that we had chatted about, um, co consulting, alternative solutions, uh, alternative solutions being, you know, there's something in the code that can't quite be achieved.

So you, you have another solution that can, um, so, you know, have the functional statements and objections, uh, be reached, um, The fire extinguisher training. There's lots of things that we do, but make sure that whatever you offer you're, you're gonna do it well. And, and, and just, you know, just take it one customer and, and one project at a time kind of thing.

So my, my road from being a fire prevention officer to thinking I could start. You know, hitting the ground running as an entrepreneur or running a business, uh, has been a great eye opener. And, and I can say, uh, like you, you had, uh, mentioned about this whole pandemic world, as much as you'd like to, you know, put money in your bank, account, hand, over fist.

Anybody would wanna do that. I'm glad, I'm glad that the pandemics kind of slowed things down for some people that did maybe leave their full-time jobs and started, uh, a business. Um, to be able to just kind of slow it up, figure your, your, your, your base business out and, and then grow from there. So it's been, uh, uh, it's, it's been a good learning curve.

I I've thoroughly enjoyed it. Yeah. That's awesome. It's good to hear, you know, I, I feel like you did a lot of hard things and, you know, you gotta kind of have. Willingness to jump into the deep end and just go do it. And so, like, I can hear your, you know, your disposition to, to go and to, and to not be stagnant and to wanna move forward.

And, and honestly, I've seen most people just sputter out at the first couple steps, like before you even get into ever really doing the thing. So. That, that energy and that momentum carried you through, into like starting and doing the thing. But, uh, it was really, I think it was really a good takeaway for me to be like, here you say, yeah, sometimes though you need to slow down and you need to be more thoughtful about, you know, just saying like, yeah, we can do it.

Yeah. We can do it because that's my kind of. that's how I feel sometimes too. Like I'm, I'm quick to say yes. And then as, you know, as I start to process it or think about it, I realized that, oh man, there's like these roadblocks that I wasn't thinking about. And I was just excited about getting into the process of it.

And so, yeah. Yeah, yeah. But, uh, I feel similarly as you, so I, yeah, it's good for me to hear that somebody else say that, cuz so I can try to internalize that yeah. Well that's it. It's true. I. I hated hearing it two years ago when, when I had people go, oh, just take it slow. I said, no, I gotta go. I got, I got something to offer.

I wanna, I wanna get an out to the world. Right. But, uh, and, and then just to kind of, to, you know, add to that family is a huge part in wanting to be, become an entrepreneur and, and start your own company. Like not only does my wife and, and kids have to deal with me. Well, I mean, going to shift five days a week now to be a fire prevention officer, but soon going back on the fire trucks and back into fires, they have to deal with that part of it.

But you know, they also have to deal with, okay guys, uh, I have, I have a podcast I'm gonna do this morning. You, you gotta stay outta my way. Or, you know, I got the, these projects on to go. I'm I'm working Saturday, I'm working Sunday. I mop at five. I'm doing stuff in the morning before you go to like it, it takes.

Some understanding and some support from your family as well. Like, I can't say that enough. Uh, you know, if you're gonna be able to, uh, to be successful in the business, you gotta be successful in your own life first. Um, uh, to that regard, I, I don't wanna paint everybody with the same brush, but, um, yeah.

It's you gotta have that support as well. Yeah, it's true. I mean, it is a hard thing. It can be a hard thing, you know, that extra work and if you don't have solid foundations in your family or your personal life, It's not gonna add up. It's not gonna add up to be good. So, no. Yeah, I appreciate that's a good thing.

What you're saying, you know, that I've definitely experienced it too, you know? Yeah. Long hours or working on the weekend or just having an understanding with your significant other or your family and just like that. Hey, you know, I'm gonna take care of business. I still, you know, value all these other great things about life, but, um, this is something that's important to me and it gives me a lot of energy and.

You know, makes me excited to wake up in the morning. Like, I, I could know that you're stoked when you get up to, to work on something and feel like you're really moving the needle for your personal and your, your family life. Like that's huge. Yeah. And when you are, when you're bettering yourself, you're better for others.

Right. So it kind of, it kind of sounds a little bit, you know, maybe selfish when you're, when you're taken off into your home office. You know, hours on the weekend and I get it. Um, you know, some days you might rather be playing catch with your son or, or, you know, going for a walk with your dogs or whatever it is, you, you get to that.

You have to have a good family, um, work life balance. But when you're better as a person and you're working on yourself, then you're better for your significant other, for your kid, all that kind of stuff. Right. So it, it all, you know, it's it, this is, this is our baby. Like, I love fire prevention and, and I think you do too, but.

um, it goes worldwide. I mean, if, if, if you gotta be good at your yourself, uh, to be good at your job, to be able to offer this to be, you know what, it's just the, the, the intertwining of all, this is just, it's, it's a beautiful thing. Um, life is beautiful that way. Yeah, it is. It feeds off itself and you're right.

I mean, like I've seen people who become, you know, who, who care about what they do, um, root benefits in all aspects of life. So I think that it's. it's beneficial in that way, but, um, I wanted to kind of round out the podcast with, uh, a question about just like, where do you like to get technical information?

Or like, how do you keep in touch with like what the industry's doing? I know that you talked about IFTA, which I had to Google that, but it says, just says international fire service training association. I think I've seen good resources from them before, but what. Places do you like to, you know, I don't know, just, just read articles or, or content like that.

Oh, oh yeah, absolutely. I mean, I'm lucky as a fire prevention, um, officer, as an AJ that we get fed provincially, uh, or it be state state for you guys, um, any changes to the fire code that's about to happen, or we have, uh, certain times throughout here where we can have our input into changes into the code coming up.

Like you had mentioned, you were working off the 2015. Um, building code and, and, and fire code. And, and we are as well. There's some new changes coming out soon. Um, so we have our fire marshal, uh, advisors, uh, that we can reach out for. Um, there's there's UL courses that we've taken. Um, there's something called, uh, integrated systems testing that, that we do.

So instead of in a building that's being built and different systems, fire and life safety systems being commission. Um, you know, the elevator's commissioned the fire alarm system. Everything's commissioned on its own. Uh, there's a new, there's a new standard through UL where it's called integrated systems testing.

Uh, and guardian, uh, does that as well as coordinators where we have, we have test days and we have all the design, um, the design people that have designed those systems and the installers there to test everything at once. So they all marry and talk to each other. Uh, the fire alarm system goes. Um, you know, the elevator comes down the way it should, uh, the fire pump activates the way it should, all those kind of things.

So that's integrated systems testing. We, we do that, but I get that, that knowledge and those courses through UL, um, which is, uh, which is out of Illinois, who, who, uh, who I chat with, um, subscribe to NFPA the NFPA network. Uh, they have daily stuff that comes out. It it's, it's terrific reads, right? It, it keeps you in tune with, you know, how many NFPA standards are.

There's there's a ton. I, I don't even know how, I don't even know how many it's in the thousands, but you know, you, you, like I talked about becoming a better fire prevention person, like there's standards that come out where, uh, Uh, you, you didn't even know it existed kind of thing. So NFPA is a great one for that.

Um, and then really the best, the best, uh, knowledge base that I get are for mother ahas. Uh, people like yourself, the, the talking part. Um, you know, there's lots of people with lots of, uh, skill sets that, um, just, just want to just want to teach other people about it. So other people, uh, are, are one of the big, uh, proponents of where I get, uh, a lot of my knowledge for, so it's, it's, it's good.

And there's, there's some Canadian standards up here. The, uh, CFA Canadian fire alarm association. That that's a big one. Um, fire alarms has such a huge, um, uh, place in buildings, uh, and are intertwined with a lot of other systems that you, you, you, you need to really know what these designers and installers are up against.

And I mean, we're just, I, I'm just, I'm gonna say I'm just an aha, but I'm not the professional and selling it. So you're really lean on those professionals to, to teach you as well. So there's, there's lots of those kind of. um, you know, daily, uh, things on the internet that come out through N FPA through fire alarm associations, through our, uh, fire marshals offices that, uh, you know, they keep you up to date.

Um, so what I used to do when I started. I didn't read them at all. I, I thought I just, you know, I need to just look at the book. I need to deal with my community, uh, and deal, deal with the fire code issue there, but it wasn't until I stopped and started reading these things where I really got some good value.

Uh, I, I hated reading before, before I became a, uh, a business owner, you know, even, even in the fire, I hated reading. Uh, I hated, you know, trying to dive my nose into a book to figure out a situation. I was more of a talker and just tried to. You know, call somebody for an answer or that's how I used to do it.

Uh, so like slowing down and, and growing your business, I had to slow down and, and start reading through all these little standards and, and organizations that offered this knowledge, like N FPA and, uh, and, uh, you know, the UL standards. And then, you know, My mind was blown with all the other things that were in there that could, could, uh, really broaden my, my horizons and knowledge on, on fire prevention.

So those are, those are the, the main ones that I look at, uh, our provincial, um, fire Marsh's office, NFPA, uh, UL. And then from that, we have some, some, uh, trades like the fire alarm and, and sprinkler trades that, uh, have, um, you know, networks that have daily, uh, daily reach. Yeah, well, that's awesome. Roddy.

Well, thank you so much. Well, where can people find you or find, um, guardian? Sorry, what was the name of your company again? Where can they find you or your company, um, plug whatever you would like. Yeah. It's so it's guardian fire consulting group. So it's guardian F cg.ca uh, CA obviously, cuz we're in Canada.

Um, but again, we're national. Um, we're, we're looking at getting in, we're so close to the states, uh, that we're getting into that, uh, that lower portion as well. Um, so if you look on the website, guardian, uh, at www.guardian F CG, um, dot CA you'll find everything you, you need to know about us. You can reach out, ask any questions, um, and we'd just love to help, uh, not necessarily that it's gonna come to fruition worth any projects, but if you have any fire code question, I love answering those just absolutely love it.

Awesome. Well, Roddy, thank you so much. And for coming on the podcast and yeah, it was awesome. Thanks GU I really appreciate it. It was really nice to meet you and chat with you and, uh, I look forward to more your episodes. They're they're terrific. Thanks for listening. Everybody. Be sure to share the episode with a friend, if you enjoyed it, don't forget that fire protection and life safety is serious business.

The views and opinions expressed on this podcast are by no means a professional consultation or a codes and standards interpretation. Be sure to contact a licensed professional. If you are getting involved. Fire protection and or life safety. Thanks again. And we'll see you next time.

On the 30th solocast episode of Fire Code Tech we are talking about flow tests. We get into codes and standards key definitions, and tips/tricks for professionals around flow tests. Tune in to find out when you need to perform hydrant

Transcription

Hello. Welcome to the solo cast of fire code tech in these episodes. It's just gonna be me, your host, Gus Gagliardi. There's gonna be a range of topics, but I'm gonna talk about specific technologies, installation, standards, codes, and how they work as well as some other interesting topics that don't neatly fit inside of the context of a normal I.

Hello. All welcome to the 30th episode of the fire code tech solo cast. On this episode, we're talking about flow tests. Yes. I went to a conference recently and was asking, um, some design and plan review professionals, what they found to be the most commonly missed piece of design documents. And the consensus in the room was that water supply information was a big piece that was commonly left out of the puzzle.

So I wanted to talk about what a flow test is. How do you perform a flow test and some key terms and definitions, and talk about N FPA 2 91. Don't forget to subscribe. So you never miss an episode and follow us on social media oppose most frequently on linked. Also, if you wanna do me a huge favor, go ahead and give us a five star review wherever you listen to your podcasts.

So what is a flow test? Let's talk about the, I always like to start with, you know, really just define what we're talking about. What is this subject in fire and life safety? So NFPA 2 91 is titled as the recommended practice for water flow testing and marking of hydrants. There's an important distinction between a code, a standard and a recommended practice.

NFPA 2 91 is not referenced by the international building. Which means that it does not have the enforcement of law. Now, there might be an FPA documents, like an FPA 13 or an FPA 24 that have. Requirements in them to use N FPA 2 91, but in specific it is not referenced in chapter 35 of the international building code.

So is looking for the definition of a flow test. And I was assuming it would be in, in FPA 2 91, but that's not the case. I did. However, find a definition of a Flo test in NFPA 13, that was referenced from NFPA 20. N F P 13 is the standard for installation of sprinkler systems in NFPA 24 is the standard for the installation of private fire service mains and their Pences the definition in the 2019 edition of NFPA 13 for flow test under section 3.3 0.8.

Zero is a test performed by the flow and measurement of water from one hyd. And the static and residual pressures from the adjacent hydrant for the purposes of determining the available water supply at that location. So in broad terms, we use flow tests to establish water supply criteria. Why is this important?

You might ask, well, flow tests are the basis for all hydraulic calculations. So in order to perform valid hydraulic calculations for sprinkler systems, You need some water supply data in order to determine if you need a fire pump or a fire protection water storage tank, it's an oversimplification of the process, but fire pumps are generally required when there is a deficient pressure in your municipal or private water supply and fire protection, water storage tanks are required when there is inadequate.

So as a quick recap, a flow test is used to determine water supply, and there are several standards and recommended practices around the subject that are very useful. NFPA 13, NFPA 24 and NFPA 2 91 all have information about flow tests. So you should investigate all of these standards and recommended practices.

When you are doing research on flow tests. as additional framing for the conversation. There are a couple key terms that are very important when discussing flow tests in its most elemental pieces, static pressure, residual pressure and flow are the data points that are being interpreted for the water supply.

The more accurate data as close as possible to your facility that you can. the easier it's going to be to perform your hydraulic calculations. Static pressure is defined in NFPA 2 91 as the pressure that exists at a given point under normal distribution system conditions measured at the residual hydrant with no hydrants flowing.

so that's a long drawn out way to say a pressure reading wall. Water's not flowing. So static refers to, uh, pressure measurements while the hydrants are not open and not flowing water. So I guess you can imagine what residual pressure. residual pressure is defined. Just one section above in 3.3 0.3 and N FPA 2 91 has the pressure that exists in the distribution system.

Measured at the residual hydrant. At the time the flowing readings are taking at the flow hydrants. So residual pressure is a measure of pressure while the system is flowing water. So how much available pressure capacity do you have when you are flowing water out of the hydrant? So NFBA 2 91. Doesn't have, uh, definition for flow test, but it does have some information in chapter four that speaks a little bit about the intent and the purpose of a flow.

4.1 0.1 states water flow tests are conducted to determine available water supply for fire protection purposes. The flow that would be available from a fire hydrant for firefighting purposes or the status of water supply distribution systems for fire protection systems or firefighting purposes evaluating the water supply.

For firefighting purposes or for fire suppression system purposes, there are different jurisdictional requirements, but 20 PSI is generally the lowest that you're allowed to test a hydrant flow test in order to determine adequate water supply. What I mean to say is. You're supposed to maintain at least 20 PSI for firefighting purposes.

So if you're getting readings of residual pressure that are below 20 PSI, there is a good chance that you are gonna have a problem. Moving on in chapter four, 4.3 says procedures. 4.3, one says Tesha be conducted during periods of peak demand based on knowledge of the water supply and engineering judgment.

So we want to conduct these flow tests during normal system usage and or peak system usage to. See how the system performs when there is, uh, the peak level of strain on the water supply so that we can provide a safety factor for our engineering calculations. Some jurisdictions will have additional criteria or reductions built into what they will allow you use for water supply data.

So some counties may. Uh, ask you to derate your water supply a certain fixed PSI number or a percentage of the overall water supply curve. So that's something to be aware of. Flo test is one of the preliminary steps for establishing fire protection systems for a facility. generally, this task is done by either the, um, engineer or the contractor.

And the purpose is to get a sense of if a sprinkler system is required for a building, or if you're trying to determine if you have adequate fire flow, if the system will be able to bear that flow and pressure, this required by these systems, why the flow test is so important is because, uh, Option of having a pump or even worse, a fire protection water storage tank and a project in which you did not plan for either of these to be in your facility can have huge issues and could potentially stop the job and prevent it from ever being constructed.

Fire pumps and fire protection, water storage tanks can be extremely cost prohibitive, hundreds of thousands of dollars to install these systems. And there are building programmatic elements that cannot be ignored. So if you have a project where people are, you know, um, not interested in getting a flow test, you need to, um, let them be aware what kind of risk and liability that they are taking on for the project and the problems that could be at hand later on in the project process.

Typically before you go out and do a flow test, you're going to take a look at the hydrants on the site and that are available to do the flow test. You, it's not uncommon to let the fire department know and to let the municipal water authority know, um, That you're gonna be doing a flow test so that they don't have alarms going off and you don't have, uh, a fire truck showing up on scene.

How many fire hydrants that you are going to flow? Depends largely on the system that you're gonna be tapping into. And the fire suppression demand that you are looking to utilize for your facility. generally, you want some broad picture of preliminary hydraulic calculations for your facility before you perform a hydrant flow test so that you can, uh, flow water near the system demand points that you are looking to utilize for the.

Generally, it's a very good idea to have a good picture of what the water supply system looks like around your facility. Um, if you're working with a, a base or somebody that, uh, a municipality that keeps a water map, you may be able to get this information from either the building owner or the municipal authority, having jurisdiction.

It's not just important that you do a flow test, but you also wanna be sure that the recommendations of NFPA 2 91 are considered. , it's not uncommon that if you ask somebody who is not used to doing flow tests, that they won't capture all the data points that are necessary or provide the right documentation for the results to be of much good use, depending on how many hydrants that you need to flow, which is based largely on your system demand and the capability of the public water service, you may need to flow more than one H.

For an aircraft hanger or another facility that has a very large system demand. You may be in a situation where you need to flow two or three hydrants. There are some interesting diagrams and figures in N FPA, 2 91 that show some example, layouts for flow tests, your flow hydrants, and your residual hydrant, and some of the water flow characteristics of what are going on during this kind of.

After the test is conducted and you have received your data points. You are going to plot your results on a water supply, uh, graph. That's it for this time. Thank you so much for listening. And we just scratched the surface on flow tests. I hope you enjoyed it, and we will see you next time on fire code tech.

Thanks for listening everybody. Be sure to share the episode with a friend, if you enjoyed it, don't forget that fire protection and life safety is serious business. The views and opinions expressed on this podcast are by no means a professional consultation or a codes and standards interpretation. Be sure to contact a licensed professional, if you are getting involved with fire protection and or life safety.

Thanks again. And we'll see you next time.

Fire investigation, social media management, public information officer, IT manager. These are just a few of the roles that Jake Zlomie performs at his new role for the Central Valley Fire District in Belgrade Montana. We also talk about how you can get involved with your local fire department if you are looking to give back or volunteer. Tune in to for our professional development segment where Jake gives his top three pieces of technology to optimize workflow.

Transcription

Hello, all welcome to the show. I'm Gus Gagliardi, and this is fire code tech on fire code tech. We interview fire protection professionals from all different careers and backgrounds in order to provide insight and a resource for those in the field. My goal is to help you become a more informed fire protection.

Professional fire code tech has interviews with engineers and researchers, fire marshals, and insurance professionals, and highlights topics like codes and standards, engineering systems, professional development, and trending topics in the industry. So if you're someone who wants to know more about fire protection or the fascinating stories of those who are in the field, you're in the right place.

Hello wall. Welcome to episode 47 of fire code. In this episode, we're speaking with Jake Slomi. Yes. Jake is back on the podcast talking about his new role with the central valley fire district in Belgrade Montana. In this episode, we talk about all Jake's favorite subjects, including fire investigation, public credentialing, and certifications and technology, and what he sees as how to optimize your workflow.

Jake drops some incredible tips, like how to get involved with your fire department. If you are looking to get back or get more ingrained with fire and life safety at a community level, Jake also breaks down the difference between his current role and his previous role as the AJ for Montana state university.

As a bonus, Jake gives us some insight to his time as a committee member on NFPA 72, don't forget to subscribe. So you never miss an episode and follow us on social media. Do me a big favor and go give us a five star review wherever you'd like to listen to your podcast. It helps out with the algorithm.

Let's get into the show. Well, Jake, thanks for coming on the show. Welcome back to fire code tech. Yeah, no, definitely. Thanks for, thanks for having me glad to be back. Uh, it's kind of hard to believe all the progress that you guys, you know, you've been, you've been busy, definitely been busy over the last couple, uh, couple episodes.

Yeah, it's been, it's been fun, uh, being on the podcast and, uh, you know, I think it's been, God, I don't remember exactly the, the number of your first episode, but I think it was maybe in the teens. So it's been over a year probably since we did our first podcast episode. Um, so yeah, been, it's been, uh, it's been a wild ride, uh, professionally and, uh, just in the, the podcast space.

So yeah. Thanks for, thanks for that. But, uh, yeah, I guess, um, it's real kind of informal today, but. I know that, uh, you know, we were talking about it a little bit off air, but, um, I know that you recently, uh, had a transition from your role at the, uh, university of, was it university of Bozeman, um, or, or at what's in the specific name of the college to a different role?

Yeah, no. Um, yeah, so I was, uh, was working over, um, at, at Montana state university here in Bozeman, uh, as the campus campus fire marshal, um, over there and kind of back in, back in August, um, moved, transitioned over, um, as kind of the, to be the, uh, fire and life safety specialist at the, for the central valley fire district, um, here in Belgrade, which is, it's kind of right next to next to Bozeman right next to the college.

Um, and, um, in November of. Uh, November, I ended up getting kind of appointed to, uh, serve as interim fire marshal for the fire district. So it's certainly been a, uh, been a journey and, uh, definitely learned a lot along the way. Yeah. You know, it's, um, it's been incredible for me to hear a little bit about how much you've been learning in this new role and what it means for you.

What, what kind of piqued your interest about this career shift when you were looking at making a change? Yeah, so, uh, overall, you know, I kinda, when I, you know, I. Overall, I, I grew up within kind of within the fire department, um, kind of watching, you know, my, my dad was on the fire department, my uncle, my grandpa, um, everyone was kind of involved, uh, with the fire department.

So I, I, I always kind of had a, a fondness of what the fire department did in a community. Um, and you know, one thing that when we were, uh, my wife was originally from Montana, which is what kind of moved us out here, uh, to begin with. But, um, you know, that was kind of what we were, I was working for a fire department in Illinois prior to moving out here.

So, um, kind of, uh, you know, I was kind of hoping to get back into the, you know, fire service one day, um, and just kind of with, with the, we kind of had. you know, with the growth of the area overall, um, and kind of last summer seemed to be kind of, there was a couple fire departments in the area hiring, um, and, uh, I was kind of fortunate to get hired here at central valley.

And, um, I live, I live within the fire district as well. Um, so it was kind of nice. It wasn't, uh, I didn't have to take a new job and then move halfway across the country or even down the street. We were, um, it's actually a lot, you know, it's a, it's a two minute drive to get to work, so. Wow. That's nice. So that's yeah, so that's super, super nice, you know, it makes, uh, it's, you know, not to, you know, it was like 20 minutes to get to the university.

Uh, I can be at work and in my office in about five minutes now. So it's, uh, it's definitely, uh, definitely nice from a commute standpoint, I don't get to listen to podcasts as much in the car, uh, but I try to make up for it when I can. Yeah, that's cool. So you were speaking with me a little bit about it before, but so what, like, what's kind of the difference between you were explaining the difference between being the, uh, a part of a fire department for like a, a specific city or, and then, but you are working for a district now, which is a, a bit of a, a larger thing.

Yeah. Would you speak a little bit about that? Yeah. So, um, overall, um, it seems like most states have it set up in, in kind of a similar way, but, um, in Montana specifically we have, um, municipal. And by state statute, once a, once a town hits a certain threshold, they're required to provide a fire department.

Um, and then you also have like a fire district or a fire service area. Um, and those are basically kind of a group of more or less a group of citizens that pool together to say, Hey, we're gonna, we want to provide for our own fire protection. And, um, it kind of kind of grows. So it's a kind of a, a political subdivision independent of, uh, municipality, um, somewhere between a municipality and a county, so to speak.

But, uh, our fire, district's fairly large where we're about, uh, 200 square miles overall. Um, and we have about 38,000 citizens that reside within our fire district. Um, you know, we, we have some, you know, some subset communities that we serve in the area, but, um, you know, within, within our fire district, we have the city of Belgrade.

Um, which is actually where our, our, our main fire fire station one is actually located in, in Belgrade here. But, um, that city just reached 10,000 folks here at the last census. Um, so they're kind of the, the only municipality that we worked with and the rest of it's kind of either an unincorporated county, um, you know, properties that are unincorporated or, uh, you know, kind of, or there's, you know, some parts where it's, it's pretty rural and pretty remote.

So, uh, we cover a pretty diverse landscape overall. Um, and it, it brings a lot of opportunity with it. Uh, but kind of, it also has quite a bit of challenges overall to specific, you know, really from the operations standpoint, it can be pretty challeng. Yeah, you were, yeah. I'd love to hear some more about, um, kind of how you've begun to kind of wrap your arms around some of those challenges.

And I guess maybe before that we could speak about like, in the work that you're doing now, um, com compared to, uh, Montana state university, like how you would describe those two roles and like what, how they're different from each other. I think that if people want to like, get a feel for what you're doing previously, the last episode is a great, like overall episode on your career and what you're doing at the university.

And so, yeah, I'd love to hear about how your role now, like in the, um, actual meat of the, the work that you're doing differs. Yeah. So I think, uh, one of the, I guess the, probably the, the major difference overall is just probably one in, in the, the, I guess the developed landscape of the, you know, the area that we're working in, you know, and the, for the university, you know, we had the, kind of the core campus and everything had fire hydrants.

It was easy, you know, getting water for, to put in a sprinkler system. Wasn't a challenge. Um, you know, for the most part, it was pretty easy, pretty advanced, you know, from the alarm standpoint. Um, and it was also, you know, a lot of, you know, kind of the, more of the maintaining those fire and life safety assets that we had to, you know, how do we advise management on, you know, here's the, here's the, you know, this is a building that's a hundred years old, you know, how do we make sure that that maintains its fire and life safety features and, um, You know, it's kind of, you know, you're getting into some like more things kind of really at a technical level, um, where right now, I guess my position would be, you know, we're kind of at a higher level overall, um, with what we're looking at.

Um, and you know, we're still using the same fire code. Um, still using the same, we're still on the same, you know, uh, same codes and standards overall, but a majority of our fire district doesn't even have, you know, we don't have a water supply. Um, so it's up to kind of our operations folks to bring water.

Um, we have a lot of, uh, dry hydrants and fill sites across, uh, across our fire district that can serve as a source of, uh, fire protection, water supply. Um, if we did have a fire event, You know, we have, um, the subdivision regulations from the county are pretty good where we have, uh, we get some pretty good options for what the developer can do, whether they bring in, uh, water, supply and hydrants or, um, they can actually sprinkle the houses.

Um, so that was our, and our last calendar year, our, the number one permit that our office actually kind of issued was for a residential sprinkler system, which was, uh, which was kind of a, a really pretty cool thing. Um, given our kind of the environment of, you know, how it, residential sprinklers can be a pretty hot topic, uh, for, in most communities that you work in.

Uh, yeah. I, I wouldn't have guessed it. Uh, so like, what does that provision kinda look like? Cuz it seems like in most of the us day that's like something that's avoided. You. Like, what is that? Is it, um, what's kind of the thresholds for those residential sprinkler systems. Yeah. So overall, um, you know, we can kind of have, um, if you, if you were to build a subdivision and it had a, like a municipal hydrant system, um, you know, where you, you could, you know, very easily pull a thousand thousand gallons per minute for, at at least 20 pounds or higher for two hours, if you could do that, that's pretty much the gold standard.

Um, and you know, we don't see sprinklers being installed in those properties, um, where it gets, where we do see sprinklers starting to get installed is when we have kind of a, a more rural subdivision, uh, the developer has some options between, uh, you know, they could put either use like storage tanks, they could build a fire pond, um, and you know, it, they could, whether it's a.

There's kind of some different options between, uh, you could put in just a straight, dry hydrant where it's just up to the fire apparatus to pull water through it. Um, you could put in a, a fire hydrant with a pump, um, for the, for that to kind of provide you that, uh, that minimum, that fire flow more or less, um, to help that or it's, or you may, you know, there's a couple where you see a combination where they may run some fire hydrants, but those fire hydrants can't supply a thousand gallons per minute.

Um, so you may have a, you know, 500 gallon per minute hydrant plus sprinklers. Um, so overall our subdivision regulations are kind of, it's kind of interesting where it's basically kind of a volume of water, um, a distance to a fire hydrant overall. um, or, um, and then if you install sprinklers, you know, it, it definitely allows some flexibility where, um, the developer doesn't have to put as much infrastructure in, um, to the, to the development overall.

And then that the, the cost to sprinkle it is then basically just included in the price of the house. Interesting. That's very interesting. I think that, that makes a lot of sense, uh, in my head, theoretically, that, you know, it's kind of a risk based approach for depending on the kind of water supply and like what's available in the community.

So that's cool to hear about, I've never heard about, uh, uh, that sort of approach on a residential standpoint. Um, so that's cool. Thanks for sharing. Um, yeah, I just, uh, I it's been good hearing about your new role and kind of some of the new challenges. Um, yeah, I guess, uh, I, I guess that makes sense. Just so it's, so it was more technical details at the university and it seems like, it seems like you're a bit of a Jack of all trades at your, in your new position as you're, uh, illustrating to me off air.

But yeah. Tell the listeners a little bit about like some of the activities that you've been getting involved with as far as like, um, the inspections side of things and the interim fire Marshall position. I, I feel like it was all very fascinating. Um, when you're describing to me like the breadth of what your role entails now, Yeah.

So, um, overall from a, I guess it's from a, a size standpoint, you know, where our, our fire department here is about, uh, we have about 50 or so employees, um, with probably 35 or so of those being career members. Um, and then the rest of them are volunteers. So, um, it's kind of unique, you know, that's a unique aspect in itself, uh, to be working in a combination department where, um, you, you know, you have a kind of an initial career response and, uh, volunteers that are, you know, are volunteers are really dedicated to what they do.

And, um, They're, you know, they're pulling shifts, just like, you know, and they're, you know, from the average observer, you know, they're, it's no different, you know, they're, but on the, the back end of it, you kind of know, it's like, wow, you know, Hey, they're, they're here for a whole 24 hours and they're not even getting paid for it.

So it's super cool from a, a commitment standpoint, um, and what they're doing and, and how they're helping the community. But, uh, you know, with that, we're kind of, uh, you know, we, we have, you know, what the work that we do is primarily to support, you know, to support them so that they're successful. Uh, when, you know, when they're called upon for an operation, you know, whether it's, you know, fire EMS, uh, we do, we do everything here.

Um, and we even, uh, we're one of the few departments in the area that actually has a fire department based, uh, ambulance. Um, so, uh, some of the other departments in the area will contract that out and our responders are actually the ones who are, you know, we're, we're maintaining the ambulance. We're, they're transporting 'em to the hospital.

Um, so that's something that's kind of unique about our organization too, but, um, you know, with that, uh, we're kind of, you know, we are like most government agencies and most fire departments, you know, we're limited on our resources. So we're kind of, everyone's doing, you know, a lot of work, um, across, you know, across a wide different, you know, a wide variety of roles.

So, uh, you know, basically as kind of intern fire, marshal, I'm kind of responsible for kind of our, I guess our fire code. And, you know, administration of the fire code overall. Um, and, um, but in addition to that, I also am our kind of our, I, our it administrator here, um, which is, uh, that's been a definitely an interesting learning process to figure out how we, how we maintain, uh, you know, I've been always been big with computers overall, but, you know, to think, okay, how do we make our computers so that they aren't a burden to our responders and that it's not a burden for them to fill out a report or, or do the work that they need to do on it.

Uh, but also to say, you know, look at the higher level to say, how do we, how do we build a network? And, uh, the it infrastructure that we really need as a, as a government entity and that's resilient and, and is a piece of critical infrastructure for us. Um, So that's been interesting, um, on top of that, you know, with, with our, uh, ambulance and, um, our ambulance transport that we do, we, um, that's a, we do bill for those.

Um, so we use a, there's a, we have a medical billing company that we pair with, um, that does that. So I'm kind of our contact for that. Um, which isn't, it doesn't add a whole lot, but, um, it's kind of, you know, uh, it's something to, that takes some time every week to stay on top of those and kind of maintain contact with them.

Um, and then kind of the, you know, one of the ones that I've been having a little bit of fun with is, um, I'm, I've also been filling in as our, our public information officer. As well as, uh, kind of managing our social media. So, um, it's been interesting from that aspect of it to see how things, you know, how do we communicate the information and communicate the story that we have here.

Cause, um, that's, you know, a lot of it, we, we see interesting stories every day. Um, and how do we communicate those out? And it's been interesting to watch and see on, uh, you know, across our social media channels, you know, what, what stories that we share, you know, how they grow and you know, which ones will grow quickly, which ones I, you know, they'll be posts and, and ones that I share that I think, oh, this is a really good post, you know, it's really solid info and it just doesn't, it just doesn't gain traction.

And then there's other ones where I'm like, okay, yeah, I'll share this, you know, it's, uh, you know, it's just some, you know, Information and it'll just take off. So it's kind of interesting to learn about our community and, and what, uh, and how we can connect with them cuz you know, in the end of it, that's really what we're just trying to do is to, to connect with the community and get that information out there.

Yeah. That's awesome. Yeah. I totally get what you mean about how you think some posts are gonna go off like a rocket and then they just, they have a wet flop on the floor and you're like, wow, that didn't, uh, turn out how I thought it would. And then some stuff you're like, okay, another post. And then it just, uh, goes off.

And you're just like, wow. People really liked whatever that was. I can't tell if it's the graphic or the content or something about that was good resonated people or when I posted it. Uh, so that's funny to hear you have some of the same struggles about like, uh, figuring out how to, um, develop that narrative.

But it's, it's, I feel like it's kind of interesting that, uh, fire departments, there's a lot of really good, like kind of, uh, fire department, social accounts out there. So I guess you have some examples of how people. What kind of content and post it, people have around that subject. So that's cool that you're getting, man, you're really covering a lot of, a lot of ground there, but yeah, it makes sense.

And I appreciate you adding some extra exposition for, you know, the, the format of your department and, you know, people who are volunteers and people who are donating their time and, you know, the, the really beautiful thing for the community that that is, and you know, how, how you preface your, your large volume of workload and that everybody is, um, doing their best to, to wear a lot of hats and, and, uh, produce for the, for the greater good of the community.

So that's cool to hear about. Yeah. And it's, you know, and it's been one of those things too, like, you know, you pick up any, you know, any fire service magazine, You know, that it's been a challenge for, you know, the volunteer fire service organizations, um, just to, you know, retain, you know, attract volunteers, retain volunteers.

And a lot of it, you know, it's, it's kind of a bit of, you know, how we're seeing work, you know, work shift even, you know, where, you know, people aren't, you know, you're not really able to. To leave work to go jump on a fire truck. And, uh, you know, so it's kind of been interesting to see, um, you know, from that aspect and, you know, and we're definitely, we're, we're now no exception to that, you know, we're, we're still seeing, you know, challenges with, um, getting volunteers and keeping volunteers, um, having the university here definitely helps us because we'll get, uh, we'll get, you know, students, um, who are, you know, they're studying, um, you know, a field, but are interested in the fire service.

Um, and they'll kind of, you know, volunteer and kind of learn about that aspect of it. But, um, it's, it's certainly interesting. Uh, and you know, really that's one of the, you know, the biggest. Challenges that we have overall is just the growth. And, um, you know, we're not terribly busy, you know, last, last year we ran 2300 calls.

Um, it was kind of the, the highest year we've had to date, but that was up 10% from the year before. And it was 10% the year before that. And, um, you know, and, and really like one out of every three calls occurs while there's another call in progress. So, um, we can definitely run outta resources really quick.

And, um, it's, you know, that's kind of, to me, it's part of it is there's, you know, there's a lot from an operation standpoint, um, that our operation side is, you know, kind of trying to figure out, you know, how do we be more efficient from that standpoint and, you know, keep everyone safe. But then at the, on the prevention and the, you know, on the overall community risk side of it is to say, how can you know, that creates a lot of opportunity for us.

To get out and about in the community and see what we can do to kind of get ahead of those calls. So we don't have to, you know, so we can minimize that risk. Um, and that's something that we can do, you know, relatively easily, um, you know, just finding, you know, finding those, finding the data and then coming up with those strategies.

Yeah. So as somebody who is a, is a. For the industry and an advocate for fire and life safety, how would you recommend that people get involved if they would like to get involved in the fire service? Cuz uh, I hear you say that, you know, it's, it's hard to get people who are volunteers, um, and just like to, to become involved, but I've also heard from I you and other professionals that, you know, um, opportunities with municipalities can sometimes be sparing, um, because of, uh, funding and you know, uh, the kind of different qualifications that you have to get to, uh, be qualified.

So I guess, uh, yeah. Advice for people on how they can get involved. Um, yeah, I would appreciate hearing about that from you. Yeah. You know, I think, uh, your, you know, probably your best bet for it is to go just, you know, swing by your local fire station. Um, if you have any sort of interest in it, um, and kind of see, Hey, what's, you know, what are your guys' needs?

And you know, what opportunities do you have? Um, you know, there's some departments that are gonna be all career based and unless, um, you know, and that's, you know, it, it works for 'em, but it's kind of hard to, you know, Hey, I want to help out I'm here, I'm willing. Um, you know, but there's other departments that'll be, you know, Hey, you know, they can, they can plug you right in and, you know, get, get you signed up for training on the next week and, and kind of get you started.

So, um, we try to do, um, at least. We try to do, uh, kind of a volunteer academy here where, um, we kind of get folks, uh, signed up and it makes it, uh, one, it, it's kind of more efficient for us to say, Hey, we can bring on, you know, if we bring on two groups a year, it's a bigger group. Uh, we can get 'em through training together.

Um, you know, but you know, I think part of it too is just say, you know, Hey, there's it, it would, you know, we, from a volunteer standpoint, it's not always about even, uh, riding, you know, getting on the fire truck, so to speak, you know, we, um, there's a lot of, uh, a lot of stuff that, you know, the fire department, you know, can get involved with, um, that, you know, is kind of outside the box, you know, to say, you know, Hey, even, you know, like social media and marketing.

If that's, if you're in that arena and you know how to do it, and you know, you're fire, you know, you're gonna have expertise that your fire department could only, you know, wish to have, um, and, you know, say, Hey, you know, there's, here's some, you know, I'd like to volunteer my time. I do this during my, you know, nine to five, but I'm happy to help you guys out.

Um, you know, even from a, you know, from a, you know, a sprinkler designer or code, you know, really heavy code involvement, just to say, you know, Hey, to kind of stop down. So, you know, Hey, introduce yourself and, you know, you know, I'm glad to glad to help out however I can, whether it's just kind of, you know, grabbing lunch here and there and talking about code issues and helping to, to kind of educate and share the, uh, share the knowledge that you have.

Uh, you know, that's super helpful in itself too, you know, it it's, uh, so it doesn't always have to be riding the fire truck. Um, but you know, most of the time. It's it's kind of, you know, that's kind of where the need is. So that's what the fire department will more or less look for. Um, but there's definitely a lot of opportunity to get involved and, and, uh, I would just, yeah.

Stop by your local fire station and see, uh, see what they can see, what help they need. Yeah. That's a great piece of advice, Jake. I appreciate that. Yeah, I think that's, uh, even as somebody who's, uh, more on the, the code and the design side of things, I think that, um, I need to schedule some time to go speak with some local fire departments.

There are, you know, more than a couple within range, driving range, easy driving range of where I work. And I think that would be, um, you know, a meaningful way for me to be able to, you know, donate time or get involved, you know, even if it's not riding the truck. So I appreciate that, um, that, uh, your coverage on that topic.

Yeah. And it's even, you know, if you're involved, you know, like with a local S F P chapter or, um, you know, in Illinois we had a, a fire inspector's association and it was kind of a good mix, you know, you'd get, uh, the, you know, municipal fire, uh, folks there, and you'd get people who would work in the design side and people who'd work on the service side.

And, you know, it was kind of gave, you know, gave them that forum where you could kind of network and learn from one another. but even, you know, I know it seems like from the design side, you know, there, it seems like the, the company reps that come through, um, you know, whether it's, you know, reliable or whoever come, you know, to it's a sales pitch for you guys, but you know, there's a lot that they can learn, you know, about, you know, the products.

Um, and just even to say, Hey here, you know who local fire inspector, I'm gonna have reliable out here. They're talking about these, these sprinkler heads, or Tyco's gonna come out here and show me their new dry valves, whatever it is. Um, you know, that's, that's kind of valuable in itself too, to see kind of, to help everyone come up, you know, see the, the technology as it comes.

And, uh, you know, it's, that's kind of one thing that on the, on the, this side of things, it's, it's easy to. Uh, it's easier to stay up on top of the code updates than it is on the, probably on the technology updates. Um, because if that's something that just doesn't come along, uh, all that often here. Yeah. I understand it is hard to keep appraised of the what's, you know, trending in technology because, uh, things move so fast and you have to make time to learn about the different, you know, um, valving and fire alarm systems.

So even as somebody who is pretty embroiled in systems design, it's hard to keep appraised of. Everything that's, uh, going on. So yeah, I appreciate that. Even at, at that S F P E level, that it would be good information for, you know, getting involved, um, with your community kind of thing, but, uh, on the, on the S F P note, uh, what other kind of, uh, professional societies are you involved in, um, in your, in your, uh, time as a professional?

Yeah, so, um, really right now, um, I'm pretty involved or, you know, I, I maintain involvement kind of, I guess, three, the three core ones that I'm involved with right now are, uh, the international code council. So ICC, um, uh, NFPA for sure. Um, and then, uh, another one that I've been kind of newer to is the, uh, II, which is just that international association of arson investigators.

um, you know, so right now I'm pretty much, uh, involvement wise. I'm pretty much just a member. Um, you know, once, you know, when I was at the university, I was able to get, um, I was on the, served on the technical committee for NFPA 72, um, in chapter 24 for, for a little bit. Um, and then once you, uh, but basically once you to maintain those different, uh, kind of the, the users or the committee makeup, uh, if when you, when you change positions, you kind of, you loo you kind of have to, uh, reapply to those committees.

And I haven't, haven't done that yet. So, um, so right now, kind of just maintaining, you know, membership in all of those, um, and trying to, you know, trying to take, you know, list it in where I can, um, you know, ICC has, uh, they have kind of their various membership councils and those are always, uh, I wanna say those are like a monthly meeting or every other month.

So they're, they're fairly active. Um, and you can kind of go see, you know, there's the fire service membership council, um, is one that I, I try to stay up with to see what's going on in that world of it. Um, and then the other one that ICC has, that's pretty good is they, they have an emerging leaders, uh, emerging leader, membership council.

Um, so it's for individuals who are kind of relatively, I, I think they target like less than 10 years into the kind of a code official code. Type role. Uh, and that's been pretty good too, just to kind of get with some peers across, you know, cuz you know, that's one of the things is like, you know, here, I'm just kind of a, you know, a one man shop currently, but there's a lot of that where, you know, you may be a building inspector and you're like the only building inspector for a town doing everything.

So it's kind of inter you know, interesting to network with those folks too and, and learn from them. Um, and both of those have been pretty good. So man, I, I didn't know that you were on the, an FPA 72 committee when you were, uh, at Montana state university. Uh, that's pretty interesting. I feel like that's those 72 committees are pretty coveted or at least it seems like the big three, like 1372 and maybe like 1 0 1 or something.

It seems like it's really hard to get a seat on those, but, uh, yeah, that's cool. Um, but yeah. It was, uh, you know, and it was kind of interesting, you know, NFPAs always got, uh, on their website. They're always looking for, uh, committee members and it's, um, interesting to see. I mean, it really makes you see the depth of their, um, you know, how deep their codes and standards really go.

Uh, cuz you're just looking through that and like, wow, I had no idea that that was a standard. Um, and it's it's in there, but um, you know, the, the other interesting thing, particularly for those who are working as an aha, um, is that N FPA has a committee seeking enforcers, um, program. Um, and that's basically your, you know, looking for those individuals who function as an AJ.

Uh, and so that's how I kind of got involved with the 72 committee and that was, uh, it happened kind of right at when COVID kind of first started. Uh, that's kind of when I applied and uh, I, I didn't. Have a, a very long stint on the, on it. I was, it was probably a year. Um, and it was in kind of mid draft. So it was, but it was still super interesting to learn, uh, learn the process.

Um, and it was, it was helpful too, that the committee meetings were all on teams. So, um, you know, cause that's kind of really one of the, the biggest challenges if you were to do that would be the travel expenses and stuff. Um, but it, a lot of that has shifted with the pandemic, so it's made it super accessible.

So, um, definitely. Yeah, if you're, if you're interested at all in the, into the committees, um, and you work as an HJ on the side of it, check out those committee seeking enforcers because there's always, always opportunity out there. Um, and it's a good, good opportunity to learn. Yeah, that's cool. I think that even though, you know, set a short stint on it, but that's still cool to have that experience and to, to get to learn a little bit about the process.

Um, so that's neat. I've always, uh, wanted to volunteer, but yeah, just like it takes time to get involved in, to put your application in and I've never made it over that very small hurdle. So , it's cool to hear about your experience with that. So I wanted to speak with you about your, like, so you spoke about your involvement in ICC in a couple of these like rather large, uh, codes and standards entities.

Um, but I know that you have, uh, a real interest in getting professional credentials. Uh, yeah, I guess if you could, uh, talk about a couple of the professional credentials maybe you got in the last like year or so. Yeah. So, um, I, you know, I got a lot on my list that I want to get. Um, you know, I, it seems like I'm always, you know, kind of diving through and oh, you know, Hey, actually, look that, look at that, look at, and it's kind of a, I don't know if I like to take the tests or what it's kind of a fun rabbit trail to, to kind of learn, learn through and, and, uh, and be challenged by, but, um, I guess really in the last year, um, has been somewhat slow, I guess, in terms of that, um, you know, one of the ones that was kind of interesting, um, late last probably April or may, um, I was able to get, uh, uh, cert certification, uh, for, in I a level one and two, um, in fire alarm systems.

Um, and that was kind of. Uh, you know, that was cool. I, I never really had anticipated getting going, you know, towards like nice that certification. Uh, but that was one that was, uh, you know, for it supported kind of what we were doing at the university. And, um, it was one of those things where like, from as a, an age J I was always kind of looking to see, you know, oh, you know, looking to, you know, I was looking for that night set certification as I was reviewing plans and, uh, you know, looking at, uh, inspection reports and stuff.

And so that was kind of, it really made me kind of appreciate the process. And, um, you know, it gave me a better understanding too, of, you know, what, what individuals have to go through just to, you know, to, to main get and maintain those certifications. Um, so that was definitely good. Um, I'm currently kind of working on, I've been, uh, since I've kind of got over here, um, for the fire department I've been kind of working I've, I've done a couple, uh, classes from, uh, you know, fire service focused, uh, overall, um, in some incident command system classes that I've done.

Um, and which has been, those have been, you know, definitely super interesting. Um, and definitely kind of makes you look at prevention in a, in a unique standpoint, um, you know, where you're kind of looking at, you know, here's, this is the incident before you, and you're kind of trying to, you know, think in your head at the same time.

Well, here's the safeguards that the building may or may not have, you know, or it should have. Um, so that's been interesting, um, you know, and you know, one of the big, you know, roles, um, that I have. Kind of assigned to me now that I don't have a ton of experience with, um, is on the fire investigation side.

Um, so that's kind of been, I've been really, uh, I've been kind of diving after it here. Uh, you know, CFI trainer.net is a great website where you can kind of learn, uh, all sorts of, you know, they have all sorts of videos and programs towards fire investigation, um, which, and they're all free. Um, so that's been super helpful, uh, in helping me to kind of build up some of that knowledge.

And it's been, you know, it's kind of. You know, challenging to see find those classes. Uh, particularly in Montana, we don't really have like a state curriculum for it. So, um, we kind of have to look for a, uh, a national organization, um, or the national fire academy that would be offering some classes on it.

So, uh, the end of this month here at the end of February, I'm gonna be traveling to Wisconsin for a, a 40 hour, uh, fire investigation class. Um, and then with that, trying to work on some certifications from II, um, you know, right now I've been working on, uh, paperwork for, uh, their fire investigation technician program.

That's kind of their entry level certificate. Um, and then they have a CFI credential, uh, which is their certified fire investigator. Um, so those have been the ones that I'm really kind of. Working towards now. Um, and then, you know, there's always, always some ICC stuff in there. Um, I'm gonna try to kind of try to work on, um, some, just more of the building code general building code certifications, um, and you know, work, work towards that.

Um, a as I have the opportunity to do so. Yeah. That's really interesting to hear you talk about like the fire investigations. I always love, uh, getting some insight from people when I get a chance to talk to people who are involved with, uh, fire investigations, because, uh it's so it seems so, um, foreign to what I'm involved with every day on a systems perspective, even though that's everything.

You know, kind of my industry is based on, we just had a really big fire, um, within like, like visual from my office building, uh, this last week, it was like a five story apartment building. And, uh, it was a month away from being done with construction and they had already started leasing, um, some of the apartments out and, uh, like they, people were gonna occupy the building in about a month.

And, uh, it's a wood construction building and caught on fire, I guess, uh, ostensibly, uh, reports so far say from electrical issues and pretty much burn to the ground, um, or, you know, like unrecoverable, um, they're gonna have to take a bulldozer to it. So, yeah, that's fascinating. I'd love to hear more about your, um, experience with, um, fire investigations.

Yeah, no. And that's, you know, and it seems like those kind of fires aren't, uh, you know, aren't far and few between, you know, it seems like though, you know, we, we had one, uh, and not, you know, right when we, uh, moved here and, and Bozeman, they had one, um, but very similar, it was like a four story wood frame, you know, type five wood frame, uh, apartment complex, you know, towards the end of completion, like they had sprinkler pipe hung and it was there, you know, you know, system wasn't active and, uh, same thing kind of burned to the ground.

Um, you know, and it was, it's kind of, it's, it's definitely interesting, you know, how we see the, uh, you know, from it's one thing to have, you know, to see the loss from an existing building. Um, but it's, you know, also unique to see what the loss is from a, you know, a building under construction like that and how, how the ripple effects can really impact the community.

Um, you know, overall, um, from a fire investigation standpoint, my experience has been, you know, it's been pretty limited, you know, I've had a couple of classes, um, you know, through the fire academy and through, um, you know, through kind of various sources, uh, you know, while I was at, uh, OSU, we had a couple of classes on, on fire investigation.

Um, you know, so far my, you know, I guess my ex background on it to date has largely been to more or less kind of identify the need for fire investigation. Um, you know, to identify those incidents as well as to. Identify kind of, you know, here's what, as a responder, here's, you know, the steps that you can take to preserve the scene and preserve evidence so that the investigator, you know, and the investigation team can, can really do the, you know, have the best tools and path, the success that they, that they have.

Uh, so that, you know, that's kind of been most of the investigation standpoint, you know, since kind of getting involved, uh, you know, since getting, you know, transitioning to the fire department here, we have had, I mean, we've had several fires so far. Um, so it's been helpful to, you know, we've had, um, we have a couple of, uh, you know, We don't have as many as we, we should, but, um, couple folks here that have investigation experience, um, and that have we, you know, fortunately have been smaller fires that are, you know, we can kind of go through, walk through, um, and handle it at our level.

Um, you know, we had a, a larger fire, um, Last week and, uh, you know, and for that, we called, uh, an investigator from our state fire marshal's office who came down. Um, so it was just super helpful just to even kind of, to be there and, uh, you know, to do kind of, you know, follow him along, see what kind of things he's look, you know, what, what the investigator's looking at, um, and take, you know, I can, I can take pictures, you know, I can point a camera, tell me where you wanna take a picture of, um, so, you know, kind of to, to help out where I can while kind of learning the process overall.

So, um, that's what kind of the end of this month, I'm hoping to have a little bit, uh, firmer foundation, uh, for investigation overall, um, to kind of build out our, our program here some more. And, uh, I've been, I applied, uh, I applied in probably December, I guess, to the national fire academy. They have a 10 day fire investigation course, um, that I've.

Has heard nothing, but, you know, it's been like the it's like the best training out there is what I, what I've heard from multiple different sources. Um, and I've, I'm trying to kind of get into that class. I wasn't able to get this application period. Uh, so now I'm gonna kind of try to keep, keep reaching out to, to get into that class.

But, um, you know, trying to keep my eyes out for training opportunities, um, both online and regionally and, um, and then try to see what, see how we can kind of build the program before we have to, uh, you know, before our next investigation begins is kind of the, all, you know, the hope. Yeah. And that's cool to hear about that.

You're getting the opportunity to like follow a more seasoned investigator around and like kind of see the process. I think that's awesome. And, uh, I got to say, I am impressed and inspired by your commitment to keep learning and keep professionally developing. I think that's really admirable and, um, something that I want to, I've had periods in my career where I've been really good about it, but, um, I need to get focused again on, uh, grabbing some more certs.

So, um, it's always love hearing people's stories to me. That's. That's really something that gives me motivation is to hear about people doing good stuff. So I'm excited to hear about you, even with all the things that you have going right now at your current role, you are still working on developing as a professional and, uh, seeking knowledge where you are looking to develop.

So that's cool. I, I really enjoyed hearing about that. Yeah. And that's, you know, and I think that's one of the things that, uh, you know, was really, I've always kind of maintained an eye out there for, you know, here's the webinar there and a webinar there, you know, some of those easier ones. Um, but that was kind of one of the things too that was, uh, helpful about, um, and super great at the university was, you know, being a learning institution, but professional development was always a, a pretty high priority.

Um, so it was good and, uh, had a lot of opportunity there to kind. Get involved and keep growing and, uh, you know, and, and everyone, our administration here has been supportive of, of that growth and, and continuing to grow. And, uh, you know, it's been, it's really interesting too, cuz in the, um, in the state of Montana, there's a, uh, kind of have two main code organizations, one being the state fire marshals office.

And then, uh, one is being the building codes bureau through, uh, the state's, uh, labor and industry department. But, um, they actually have, there's an actual, uh, estate law that requires the building code bureau to, uh, it's like 1% of all permit fees goes towards education for the state. Um, So what it actually does is it, uh, they ha host a, um, a building codes conference.

Um, and it's typically it's, it's every spring historically. Um, and they'll bring in, and it's like a, a three to four, I think it's like four day. Most of them have been four days, um, of just like ICC instruction and peer code instruction. It's all ICC, you know, ICC instructors and, um, uh, I can't think of the plumbing, whoever the plumbing and mechanical people are.

Um, but they, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. So they, and they bring them out there too. So you can do, you know, really, you can have, you know, the fire guys are there. The, the plumbing inspectors are there, the mechanical inspectors everyone's there and they're getting all, you know, their S for the state and, um, And it, when we, when I first, the first one that I was able to attend, you know, the, the registration fee was a hundred bucks, which I'm like, well, that's the best deal.

And, and for an ICC class, that, and for four days that, you know, wow, can't, can't beat that. And, uh, It's actually to the point now where, uh, you know, there's been so much growth and so much development in Montana, um, that the state is actually trying to, you know, they're that they can only keep so much in, uh, in their reserves, you know, spending wise, um, for that, that it's actually the last two years it's been free.

Um, so zero cost to get ICC training. Wow. That's awesome. And yeah, so it's been, so that's a super, you know, that's an awesome opportunity for us here, um, that, you know, most people don't, you know, aren't fortunate to have and, um, they, they're kind of, we're talking about even starting to do something in the fall too.

So, um, you know, so that's definitely, uh, super beneficial here to have the support and the resources from, uh, from the state to be able to, to do some of that. Um, and it, it definitely. Definitely makes it easy to kind of dive into, you know, if you're, if you're interested in an IRC class or an I B C class and you know, maybe you don't want to pay them, you know, it's like, ah, I'm not sure, you know, it's kind of a good avenue that you can kind of explore the different trades and different disciplines to who.

Yeah, I'm glad that there are some good resources out there for, uh, people who are in enforcement. You know, it sounds like, uh, I, I know that training can be some, one time, sometimes one of those things that, um, is really attractive, but can be, uh, cost prohibitive. I know, from taking in courses for our professional certification, that they can get so expensive, so fast.

So, um, that's awesome that you're getting some really stellar opportunities. I mean, probably the training stuff that ICC, uh, puts on is probably world class as far as, uh, what you're gonna deal with from a code perspective for in the states. So that's awesome. But, um, I wanted to kind of, uh, getting close to the end of the interview and I wanted to, uh, speak with you.

I. I always like, uh, hearing from you about, um, you're kind of always somebody who is proactive with technology and kind of, uh, keeping up to date. So I wanted to ask you, like, what kind of, um, you know, like tools or, or, or websites, or, you know, kind of things, technology things, are you using to, uh, stay competitive or just like what, you know, help your workflow?

Yeah. So, um, you know, that's definitely one of those things that it's like, well, I, there's a lot of tools out there that I have no idea probably even exist, but, um, one of the things that has been. You know, where I'm fairly fortunate to be in the position of is that I'm pretty much a one man. You know, it's just me, I'm a one man shop kind of currently, especially from an, an inspection standpoint.

So, um, that has one created kind of some challenges, um, and the overall kind of timing of the workflow, you know, timing of my workflows and stuff. Uh, but it's also created a, you know, there's been a lot of opportunity overall, too, where it's like, okay, well we're not, you know, our, our permit load is not really enough probably to justify one of the more enterprise.

One of the bigger, um, inspection software platforms that are out there. Um, like there's like a couple different major vendors out there that sell 'em to, to cities and jurisdictions all over. Uh, but we're really, probably not quite that big where it would be cost effective to do that. Um, so I've kind of been able to create some of those tools on my own.

Um, you know, so one of the, uh, major tools that I've been, uh, one of the big tools that I I've kind of implemented here in the last month is just from, uh, smartsheet.com. Um, and so we, I have a, a Smartsheet account and it's basically. Excel on steroids. Um, but you can kind of go through and you can create forms.

Um, so that's what I've started to do for permit applications is I have a, a Smartsheet form. Um, so I can send that link to contractors, um, and service providers they can go through and it gets me the information that I need, um, and they can attach the documents right to it. So it kind of stores everything for me.

Um, but it's also nice because since I am kind of that, that one person shop it's basically, you know, from permit fees to. You know, getting the, you know, sending the, the check to our office manager to get it deposited into our account. It's like, it's an all like, literally doing it all. Uh, so it's, it's super helpful to be able to go through, um, and to track, okay, here's, here's the permit fees for this.

Here's the, you know, here's what we collected for it. Here's our, uh, you know, here's the, just the tracking information for the check or whatever, so that we know at the end, you know, come the end of the year. Um, you know, we have it all in one place, so that's been super helpful. Um, another one that I've, you know, it's, I've spent a lot of time, um, A lot of time kind of back and forth with, um, scheduling, you know, we'll play the, uh, play the pretty, a pretty good game of phone tag here with, you know, call, you know, someone calls for an inspection I'll call 'em back.

You know, I leave the office and they're, you know, and out on an inspection and miss a call from him and it goes back and forth, back and forth, or, you know, Hey, what's your availability. And it kind of just, um, you know, that was something that could kind of get me bogged down, uh, that really didn't need to.

Um, so I started to use Calendarly. Um, it's like just calendar and then with an L Y at the end of it. So, um, you can actually just go. Cal lee.com/cvf D fire marshal. And you can book any sort of inspection with me. Um, you know, so that's what I end up doing with our, um, you know, we do some, some regulate.

Your regulatory inspections here, uh, between daycare and cannabis, uh, alcohol, um, those kind of places. So it's super helpful. You know, if I, if I miss, if I'm out and about, I miss a call from a, a cannabis pro you know, a cannabis operator, I can go through, text them the link and they can have an inspection scheduled, uh, for their facility, you know, as soon as I'm, you know, as soon as I'm able and it syncs with my calendar and all that.

So, um, so that's been super cool. It also gives me some cool tools that I can go through and do, um, like little reminders. So I can have it set up to say, you know, Hey, I'm gonna do a hydro, um, on a sprinkler system and I can set it up for, you know, whoever, whoever puts, you know, what number they put in there will get a text message, you know, three hours before to say, Hey, you know, Jake will be here for a hydro, uh, here's what you need to do, or, um, For the remote, you know, a lot of it, you know, having the, kind of with COVID and the shift to the pan from the pandemic, it's been super helpful to, um, you know, to be able to do some remote consultations with different designers and engineers that, um, you know, they can also go on there, book me and it'll, it'll just automatically give them a team's invite.

Um, so, you know, it's basically makes it super easy. You know, I, I, uh, I sent a link on, on Friday to a, a sprinkler designer and they were able to book me for, for Monday for, uh, to talk about a project that they have. So, um, so those things have been super helpful. Um, I'd like to, you know, we kind of have, uh, you know, within the fire department, um, every fire department has a records management system and that's kind of the, the core print, you know, the core piece that that software is gonna do is gonna, um, that's what our crews are gonna, um, Used to, to report all their call, the calls that they respond to.

So, um, that's really the primary function of that. Um, you know, we currently use the records management system that is kind of, uh, it's challenging on a couple different fronts. Um, but what it also does is, you know, there's an, uh, an occupancy module for it, um, that we can do inspections on and do, you know, an electronic inspection that way.

So, um, within probably the next, probably the next couple months here, we're gonna be switching records, management systems. Um, so that will be, that's kind of, that's gonna be kind of another opportunity, um, to kind of clean up our inspection checklists and, um, make sure where you can get a clean and clear inspection.

Uh, process figured out as well as, uh, pre-incident planning for our crews. So, um, I'm definitely excited for that. And then, you know, I think, you know, I'm always kind of looking to see what, what I can do to, to manage the workload and track the calls and, uh, you know, those, those odds and ends, um, just to make sure that, you know, we're, we're doing the best job that we can and the most efficient job, um, instead of having to, uh, kind of reinvent the wheel the entire time.

And that's been, that's been one of the, the interesting learnings to, you know, kind of step into a new role and to see, you know, see how can I make what I'm working on the most transparent for, you know, for the next guy. Um, and so that's been definitely, definitely a lot of learnings along the way, but it's been.

Man that was so many good tips there. I love Calendarly. I'm definitely gonna check out Smartsheets and it's cool to hear what you're doing to try to refine the process. Um, man, Jacob can't thank you enough for coming on the show and sharing all this great information about your career and good resources for others and yes, big, big, big, thank you for, uh, coming on another fire code tech episode.

Yeah. Well thank, you know, thank you so much for having me, uh, definitely appreciate it. And if you, or you know, anyone else come up to Montana, there's only a few of us up here, so, you know, feel free to stop. Thanks for listening. Everybody. Be sure to share the episode with a friend, if you enjoyed it, don't forget that fire protection and life safety is serious business.

The views and opinions expressed on this podcast are by no means a professional consultation or a codes and standards interpretation. Be sure to contact a licensed professional. If you are getting involved with fire protection and or life safety. Thanks again. And we'll see you next time.

Welcome to episode 29 of the solocast of Fire Code Tech! This week we are talking about assembly occupancies. What are some common definitions and examples of assembly occupancies? How many different types of assembly occupancies are there in the international building code? Are there some important fire protection technology thresholds for assembly occupancies? We answer all these question and more in this week’s episode of FCT! https://www.nfpa.org/Public-Education/Staying-safe/Safety-in-living-and-entertainment-spaces/Nightclubs-assembly-occupancies/Fire-safety-in-assembly-occupancies

Transcription

Hello. Welcome to the solo cast of fire code tech in these episodes. It's just gonna be me, your host, Gus Gagliardi. There's gonna be a range of topics, but I'm gonna talk about specific technologies, installation, standards, codes, and how they work as well as some other interesting topics that don't neatly fit inside of the context of a normal interview.

Hello, all welcome to episode 29 of the solo cast of fire code. On this episode, we're talking about assembly occupancies. Yes. There is a unique fire and life safety history for assembly occupancies, and also some additional concerns whenever you are dealing with large groups of people. So I wanted to take this opportunity in the solo cast to talk about some of these occupancy specific features, because they can trigger some costly implications for fire and life safety.

One of the big reasons why fire and lamp safety is so strict for assembly. Occupancies is because we have a long history of rather deadly fires that are associated with, uh, assembly occupancies. NFP has some great resources for assembly occupancies and their fire histories. Some of the most deadly fires in us history are associated with.

Assembly occupancies. Um, the coconut Grove fire took nearly 500 people's lives. We also talked about the IRA hoist theater fire in a previous solo cast episode. There is a lot to be learned from these historic fires. So I would invite you to take a look at some of the resources NFPA has on these deadly fires.

I'll drop a link down in the show notes. If you wanna find out some more information, otherwise I'll probably be talking about some of these historic fires in future solocast episodes. So let's talk about the definition of an assembly occupancy. For this episode, I'm using the 2015 version of the international building code.

And we are in section 3 0 3, which speaks to assembly occupancies. It's the USAN occupancy chapter of the building code, which is chapter three. It says assembly group, a occupancy includes among others, the use of the building or structure or portion thereof for the gathering of persons for the purposes, such as civic, social or religious functions, recreation, food, drink, consumption, or awaiting transportation.

So as you can see in this occupancy, we are really talking about places where people gather in large numbers. So I wanna take the listener through the different types of assembly, occupancies in the building code, because they all have different safety and fire requirements, but they are generally speaking in the same, uh, order of magnitude.

So like I said, previously, we're in section 3 0 3 of the international building code. And let's talk about group a occupancies or assembly occupancies. And go through the four different types of assembly occupancies. So each different assembly occupancy has a different definition and some examples of what kind of buildings are considered by the building code as assembly occupancies.

Now there's not always an explicit example of the occupancy you might be dealing with. So. They provide a couple examples so that you can get some idea of how to extrapolate your building use and occupancy in order to use your judgment as a fire and line safety professional for what are the applicable, uh, codes and standards.

So let's talk about group a one assembly, occupa. First off the definition says group a one occupancy includes assembly uses usually with fixed seating intended for the production of viewing of the performing arts or motion pictures, including, but not limited to motion, picture theaters. Okay. So these are the examples of group a one.

So it gives a broad overview in the definition. And then now we're gonna talk about, uh, specific examples. And so, uh, the first example is theaters where you can watch movies. Second example is symphony and concert halls. Third example is television and radio studios admitting an audience. And, uh, fourth example is theaters.

So like where you would see plays and whatnot. So as you can kind of tell there's a bit of variation between these examples, but they all kind of have a same kind of, um, feel and used to 'em. Um, a one is one of the, each of these different groups have a bit different, um, fire and life safety implication, and.

Uh, I believe that a one has some of the more stricter requirements and then it kind of, uh, decreases in fire and life safety severity as we go down to a five. So I misspoke before there's five group, a occupancies moving on to a two or group a two definition reads group. A two occupancy includes assembly uses intended for food and.

or consumption, including, but not limited two banquet halls, casino, gaming areas, nightclubs, restaurant cafeterias, or similar dining facilities, including associated commercial kitchens in taverns or bars. Moving on to group a three. I think that in my experience group, a three is the widest category and the one that I've seen the most in my design practice.

Uh, usually there are a lot of like accessory. There are a lot of accessory, uh, assembly, occupancy usage, and we could talk about some specific instances and how, you know, if it's assembly or not. If it's very closer on the threshold, say you're looking at a conference room or something. Uh, we'll talk about that later.

But. A three occupancies are a bit of a catchall. The definition says group a three occupancy includes assembly uses intended for worship recreation or Mo or amusement. And other assembly uses not classified elsewhere in group a including, but not limited two. And there's more. Examples here than any of the other groups, but arcades art galleries, bowling alleys, community halls, courtrooms dance halls, exhibition halls, funeral parlors, gymnasiums, indoor swimming pools, indoor tennis courts, lecture halls, libraries, museums, places of religious worship pool and billiard parlors, pool halls waiting areas in transportation terminal.

This seems like a bit of a dust bin category. And it is. So if you are unsure, if you have a accessory use of a business in a business occupancy or in another occupancy, uh, and you believe it's assembly likely it is a, a three. We'll go through group a four and a five a little quicker, cuz I don't see them as much maybe.

Uh, I guess it depends on which occupancies you work on the most, but uh, I think group a one through a three are a bit more common group. A four group, a four occupancy includes assembly uses intended for viewing of indoor sporting events and activities with spectator seating, including but not limited to arenas, skating, rinks, swimming pools and tennis courts.

So this is a kind of, uh, open air or indoor, uh, sports activity. Um, maybe you could also consider like a basketball court, indoor basketball court, this kind of assembly occupancy group group, a five group, a five occupancy includes assembly uses intended for participation in a viewing outdoor activities, including, but not limited to.

Amusement park structures, bleachers, grandstands, and stadiums never had the opportunity to design a stadium, uh, or amusement park structure. But imagine that would be, uh, very difficult unless that's something that you did, uh, super frequently. So we just went over the five different types of assembly groups and what an assembly occupancy is.

But now I want to talk about some of the different fire protection features. We'll see how far we get. But first off, I want to talk about fire suppression systems. So chapter 9 0 3, which is automatic sprinkler systems, uh, speaks about occupancy, specific fire suppression requirements. So there a variety of different qualifying factors in the building code that might require you to have a sprinkler system.

But, uh, a large assembly occupancy is a very fast way to ensure that you're going to need a fire suppression system. So I won't talk about all of the different sections that are speaking to the requirements in regard to assembly occupancies and sprinkler systems. But there are a common couple of features for a building to have with an assembly occupancy that would trigger a fire expression system being require.

So let's just take a look at the most severe one, which is for a two occupancy in specific we're looking at section 9 0 3 0.2 0.1 0.2. This section states an automatic sprinkler system shall be provided for areas containing group a two occupancies in intervening floors of the building where one of the following conditions.

So, this is a great place for you to go check. Somebody brings you an architect, brings you a floor plan for a building, and it's a, uh, community center or a, uh, place that has, um, a large assembly space. And you want to determine if a sprinkler system is needed. Check. If you have a large assembly space categorize that use on occupancy and then come to section 9 0 3 and find which specific occupancy, uh, requirements that you might be meeting.

The first qualifying factor is fire area. And it says if the fire area exceeds 5,000 square feet, so. This is not that dramatic of a requirement for a large assembly space. If you're dealing with a building that is, you know, I've worked on a large theater recently with, uh, you know, a stage and day big open seating area.

That's more than 40,000 square feet. So, um, it is not uncommon for these assembly spaces to be rather large. Um, so if your fire area, if your largest fire area in your, a two occupancy exceeds 5,000 square feet, then you need a sprinkler system. The second requirement is the fire area has an occupant load of a hundred or more.

So we haven't talked about some of the life safety features yet, but. Um, it's very easy to get an occupant load of a hundred people for a lot of these assembly occupancies. Um, we could talk about life safety features specifically, but, um, there are instances in which, uh, you can get 15 or seven, uh, square feet per person, uh, net.

Uh, and so that adds up very fast. The third provision is the fire area is located on the floor other than the level of exit discharge serving such occupancies. So that might be a really. Easy qualification to meet. If you have a two story building without, you know, some, uh, level of exit discharge, then you need a sprinkler system.

So you can see that these barn and lay safety requirements, uh, they activate very quickly for these type of buildings. So as we talk about these common thresholds that might require, add additional fire and life safety equipment, Uh, occupant load is a huge factor. Uh, common occupant load factors, which are impactful are a hundred, 300, 500 and a thousand.

So if you just kind of have those round numbers in your head where you see an occupant load, exceeding those different thresholds have in your mind that there is a very good chance that there are additional fire protection and life safety requirements to be had. If you see these factors. Let's move on to fire alarm looking in section 9 0 7 of the 2015 edition of the international building code.

We're looking specifically at group a occupancies, and that is section 9 0 7 0.2 0.1 group a. This is the requirement for a fire alarm system. It says a manual fire alarm system that activates occupant notification in accordance with 9 0 7 0.5 shall be installed in group a occupancies where the occupant load due to the assembly occupancy is more than 300 is 300 or more.

Then it goes on to say group a occupancies, not separated from one another in accordance to a 9 0 7 0.3 point 10 shall be considered a single occupancy for the purposes. Applying to this section portions of group E occupancies occupied for assembly purposes shall be provided with a fire alarm system as required for group E occupancies.

Then there's an exception for the omission of manual fire alarm boxes. If your building has a automatic sprinkler system stall installed in accordance with section 9 0 3 0.3 0.1 0.1. And the, and it says, and the occupant notification appliances will activate throughout the notification zones upon sprinkler water flow.

That is a very long drawn out way to say, if you got 300 or more people, because if you're assembly occupancy, you need a fire alarm system. And it has to be a manual fire alarm system. Unless you have a sprinkler system that activates your fire alarm. Here's the big kicker for fire alarm systems and assembly occupancies.

Uh, and it's the next section down, which is 9 0 7 0.2 0.1 0.1 system initiation in group, a occupancies with an occupant load of a thousand or more. And it says activation in the fire alarm in group a occupancies with an occupant load of a thousand or more shall initiate a signal using an emergency voice alarm communication system in accordance with 9 0 7 0.5 0.2 point.

So this means you need a voice evacuation system. If your building has an occupant load of a thousand or more, this is a big deal. This takes your fire alarm system from just your standard horn STR system to voice, which it can be as much as like 10 times more for the cost of your fire alarm system, depending on all the features you need.

So this is a very big deal for you to determine as early as possible in the cycle of the. Not only does it have a huge cost implication, but it has a huge design implication because there are, uh, more devices to coordinate and, uh, more equipment to locate for these systems. So those are a couple of the big fire systems that might required.

Um, looks like next time we will get into some more of the fire and line safety features for assembly occupancies. And we can take a look at some of the other common features of assembly occupancies, like some of the other specific code sections that are commonly applicable. Like for instance, section four 10 in the, in chapter four, which is stages platforms and technical production areas.

And commercial kitchen equipment, like we talked about when describing the groups, but we will see you next time on fire code tech. Thank you for listen. Thanks for listening. Everybody. Be sure to share the episode with a friend, if you enjoyed it, don't forget that fire protection and life safety is serious business.

The views and opinions expressed on this podcast are by no means a professional consultation or a codes and standards interpretation. Be sure to contact a licensed professional. If you are getting involved with fire protection and or life safety. Thanks again. And we'll see you next time.

On episode 46 of Fire Code Tech we are interviewing a professional that has a tremendous drive and personal story about her journey in fire and life safety. Tune in to hear about how Jeyra has cultivated personal and professional relationships, great tips for any professional. Also we break down tips and tricks for learning fire protection if English is not your first language.

Another Podcast appearance by Jeyra

https://www.gladiatrixpodcast.com/being-resilient-with-jeyra-rivera/

Transcription

Hello, all welcome to the show. I'm Gus Gagliardi, and this is fire code tech on fire code tech. We interview fire protection professionals from all different careers and backgrounds in order to provide insight and a resource for those in the field. My goal is to help you become a more informed fire protection.

Professional fire code tech has interviews with engineers and researchers, fire marshals, and insurance professionals, and highlights topics like codes and standards, engineering systems, professional development, and trending topics in the industry. So if you're someone who wants to know more about fire protection or the fascinating stories of those who are in the field, you're in the right place.

Welcome to episode 46 of fire code tech. On today's episode, we're talking with JIRA Rivi in our episode today with JRA. We talk about plenty of professional development, tips and tricks, and lots of interesting information about the burgeoning new career of Jada today's episode is an inspiring story about how you can too make a transition into fire and life safety.

And what are the resources that you need to be successful in your career? we dive deep into professional development topics and pull out some real gems, like how to stay competitive as somebody who is just getting into the field and might be stranded in a remote work situation. JRA talks about her superpower, which is finding and cultivating mentor relationships.

If you're looking for some interesting information on how to stay competitive, or you just want to hear an inspiring story of a young professional who is going places you're gonna love this episode. Don't forget to hit subscribe wherever you're listening to your podcasts and give us a five star view.

If you wouldn't mind on Google play apple podcast, Spotify, or wherever you get your info also do follow us on LinkedIn. That's where we post most frequently, and you can find out about all the different, uh, life safety and fire information that we post about. Jada, thank you so much for coming on the podcast.

Welcome to fire code tech. Thank you so much for having me very excited to be here with you today. Awesome. Well, I love starting these interviews with a little bit of your background and to get the listeners acquainted with, uh, about your story and just how you kind of professionally got started. Of course.

So, um, like you mentioned, my name is JRA. I am a fire protection engineer at Smith. And I pivoted actually from mechanical engineering to fire protection. Um, so yeah, that's pretty much how an kind of a elevator pitch version of my career. And I guess as we go, we're gonna, you know, keep elaborating about my history and like my story and how I evolve as an engineer

Sure, sure. So, uh, I understand that you recently. Um, just completed schooling and, you know, kind of, uh, finish your program and had some internships. Would you tell me a little bit about your college experience and, you know, uh, kind of like what classes and stuff you enjoyed? Yes. So my college experience, I started in Puerto Rico, my bachelor's degree in mechanical engineering.

Um, I went there for 2014 to 2017. Then I came to the states cuz I was visiting at the time. Um, I got stuck in Chicago, um, for, um, a hurricane that destroyed back home in Puerto Rico. Um, so yeah, I ended up transferring schools, um, at the spring 2018 due to that. So, yeah. Then from there, my mentor, Nancy koha at the time was my hiring manager.

She hired me as an intern. And from there, I kind of started doubling into designing architectural engineering. Wow. That's really impressive. Yeah. I was so shocked. I listened to that, uh, podcast, uh, the episode's called do the thing that scares you. And you're speaking about how you didn't hear from your family for weeks after that hurricane happened.

And I was like, oh my gosh, like, I'm sure everybody who was listening to that had the same feeling of, I can't imagine the terror of, you know, not knowing if your family was okay during. during that hurricane. That sounds so emotional. Yeah, it, it was a lot at the time. And ironically, I was like three weeks shy from turning 21.

So I feel like I jumped straight into adulthood with that. Um, it was very, I think one of the most scary things that I've gone through so far, there's not knowing my family was even alive. Yeah. Oh my gosh. That's terrifying. But, um, Yeah. So, uh, speak a little bit about your experience once you, you know, kind of, uh, got through college and, you know, you're, you're going on this internship, uh, what kinda work are you doing?

Um, as a architectural engineer, you know, like what does that look. um, you mean as of today or when I was dabbling with like the internship in school? Oh yeah. Just like, uh, kind of, uh, still, um, looking at that early on part of your career where you're in the internship in school. Okay, perfect. Yes. So I was going to school full time and well, before deciding to transfer schools, I should say I was working full time for that E D firm that I was hired, um, as an.

Um, Nancy asked me, I started in October and then by December she asked me if I, you know, if I should, I should consider transferring schools to Chicago and I could work part-time um, in the company. So I was like, okay. I mean, I'm fine with it, but I don't even know how the process will go when it comes to the college applic.

so she actually was the one that helped me through that process, cuz her oldest daughter was also applying, um, to college at the time. Um, so yeah, I transferred school. I was working, um, while I was going to school as well. Honestly, I looking back, I don't know how I did it. Um, I guess it's part of living in the state of Fireflight.

Um, it kind of pushes you to do things that either I make it work or I make it. Yeah. Um, I think that's, that was kind of my grid for the past almost four years. wow. But it was, oh, go ahead. Sorry. Oh, no, I just was saying, wow, sorry. It sound like it was loud on to you. I didn't mean to loud. Wow. Into the microphone.

no, you're fine. Um, but yeah, that's pretty much how I did it. Um, in between it was good looking back because I, I. That I could pay more attention as I was learning and practice. And on my inners, I was learning how to use rev. I was learning how to do low calculations, how the thing works. Like how plumbing fixtures work, like what is, you know, GPS?

Why do I care about GPM? So I started learning all that in practice. So when I went to school, having the technical background was like, oh, things are clicking easier. And I was able to pay extra attention to the classes that I knew. I was like very interested in like Thermo, he transferred H B a C you know, there were, um, fluid mechanics.

So I was able to kind of recognize that from the get go. Yeah. I heard you say in that podcast episode that you considered yourself a lifetime learner. I love that sentiment. Would you talk about how. That has been something that has been rewarding in your career and, and why you feel that way? Absolutely.

I, I always joke that I will never strive to be the smartest person in the room. Um, but I wanna know who the smart person is. So I feel like that curiosity, it kind of translates to how I see every oh, but how this works, but oh, or who knows this, that, uh, this question, like who can. I feel like I've always been like that.

And I don't know it the way that it, it paid off, I would say, I mean, I was able to pivot careers of being able to like transfer schools. I've been like a lot of doors have been, um, open for me just because of my willingness to keep learning and to. I don't know, to have that interest in just always knowing more.

There's no such thing as knowing everything. And I will be scared if someone claims that, honestly. Yeah. You don't wanna be, honestly, sometimes it's not even a good idea to try to be the smartest person in the room, in the room or the, you know, unfortunately I see a lot of times and people who are the, the smartest and most technical engineers, uh, oftentimes.

Might struggle with the emotional intelligence piece or with the, you know, social interaction piece. Uh, heard a funny joke about engineers the other day. And it was, uh, how do you know who's the extroverted engineer and, uh, the punch line is, um, they'll stare at your feet, not theirs. Uh, that is so funny.

so, uh, yeah, I don't know. Um, I think that you. it's a weird thing being, uh, an engineer or working with technically competent people is, you know, a lot of people are technically competent, but I think the it's really hard to be, um, good with networking, good with seeking out a mentor and kind of leaning into, to learning.

So I'm happy to hear that those are big themes in your career. Oh, thank you. so. Uh, you know, for, for the people who are listening, uh, the way we met was, uh, you know, you had reached out, uh, because you were going through, uh, a career change, you know, uh, speak, speak a little bit about that career change and you know, how you made the transition to fire and life safety J cause I think it's, it's pretty fascinat.

Yeah. So, uh, like you've mentioned everything started, cuz I was kind of researching about fire protection cuz I was in the midst of pivoting careers. Um, so everything kind of, it kind of started to put together in 2021, but this kind of started at the beginning of 2020. Um, I was being interviewed for an ownership position at Smith group.

That's the company that I'm working on. Right. Um, actually Nancy again was interviewing me, which is kind of very full circle. There's like a bunch of full circle moments in my career, I would say. Um, so yeah, she interviewed me and there were like three people, it was her, another, the mechanical engineer and a fire protection engineer.

Um, so yeah, and then like the interview went and at the end she mentioned like, oh, you should consider, um, looking into fire, protect. because it's, you know, it's a very small niche and I think you'll be a good fit. And I'm like, what is fire protection? So , I started researching and I'm like, oh, this seems very interesting.

And I'm curious to learn more. So I started also looking within the presentation. There's like a bunch of presentations that happen across our company on a very frequent basis where engineers and architects kind. Discuss the projects that they've been involved in, like the challenges and so on, so forth.

So seeing the fire projection engineers discussing like these very cool projects, like with this level high level of complexity and kind of recognizing that as fire projection engineers, you don't have the same issues nor come with the same solutions. Um, to me it's very fascinat. So that's kind of how it started.

And as I was doing my internship, even though it was only mechanical and I was doing mechanical and plumbing, I made the approach to the fire protection engineer. Um, Steven Barrett, which funny he's my boss now. Um, so yeah, I reached out to him and I'm like, um, I'm interested in learning a little bit, um, more about what you.

And he kind of started assigning little tasks about life safety here and there, but nothing too formal at that time. So then on my, it was spring 2021. I asked him to mentor me, um, because I was serious about making the change. I was like, okay, I'm pretty sure that I wanna make the change. I don't know how I'm gonna do it, but you know, Steven, at the time he also has, uh, mechanical engineer.

Background and bachelor, and he also pivoted to fire protection engineering. So my train of thought was that okay if he did it, I can do it as well. And I wanna know how he did it. So that's kind of my idea of asking him to mentor me. Came from, and, you know, he started and he gave me like a bunch of resources, which I find that was very nice of him.

He made me like a huge list of like resources, webinars, like in FBA, like a bunch of like UL webinars, a bunch of things that I could kind of start learning and familiarizing with. Um, so that's pretty much how things kind of unfolded up until the point where it's like, oh, okay, we have a, uh, we need fire projection engineers.

And I think, you know, this will work and, you know, the opportunity came and I'm like, let's do it. And that's when I started kind of researching more into the practice of fire protection engineering and I'm like, I love podcast. So let me find a fire protection podcast. And I found. And it was very interesting to me, cuz I already knew that as fire protection engineers, you are holistically solving a bunch of problems.

Like life safety, fire, alarm smoke, like smoke, uh, modeling, fire modeling. There's so many things that you're solving and working with as a fire protection engineer. I don't know, I just, I could be talking all day, but it was very fascinating. And that's why I reached out to you. I'm like, oh my God, you're discussing this topics, please.

I wanna know more well, yeah, that's so many great points. I love that. You're talking about how, you know, uh, my, you know, you're saying that you have a mentor that. Originally a mechanical engineer, you know, turned fire protection engineer, and then that's kind of who you approach for a me and your pursuit of the discipline.

Uh, I think that's awesome. One of my biggest mentors in my life and fire protection engineering was originally a mechanical engineer and she. Made the move to, to be the fire protection engineer. And so I think that's so funny. That's such a big, common, uh, thing in the industry where the engineers of different disciplines or backgrounds kind of fumble their way into fire and life safety.

But I was so impressed when you reached out and, um, we had a conversation over the phone and you were so well prepared. You went through a list of like maybe six or seven. Uh, really awesome questions about, you know, how to find resources, you know, what are competitive ways to advance in your career? Uh, you, you know, is, you know, the benefits, the pros and cons of, uh, higher education.

I mean, you basically had kind of fleshed out. How do I make the biggest bang for my career? And you were going to somebody and reaching out and trying to find those answers. And I was just kind of blown away by, uh, your ability to, to do that. I mean, usually. Nobody does that. And then they certainly don't do it in a nice way.

They might barrage you on LinkedIn with like one word kind of questions or inquiries, but you know, you did it so politely and so succinctly and, and gracious and thoughtful of the time. And I was just like, wow, I'm so impressed by this person. So I was just like, kind of blown away when you reached out.

That is so NA thank you. I, I feel like I strongly believe, I should say. Networking should be genuine relationships rather than, oh, I see that you, for example, I see that you're a fire protection engineer. Oh yeah. Please. Let me just connect in. Please gimme a job. Like I don't, I don't think that's how it should go.

I strongly believe that they should be relationships developed within people and over time there's like, okay, something happens and it's like, oh, I know this person that can help me out. You know, vice versa. So yeah, I cannot see relationship like, like that way. So, but I appreciate that. You tell me that cuz I, I don't know.

It comes very natural to me, so I wouldn't think that that's not as common. Yeah. I think that's a superpower. That's probably your superpower and you don't even know it, but I think that's one of the, you know, I have. Sisters-in-law in, in college. And I always am trying to tell them, you know, uh, to, to use LinkedIn, to use network here, networking, to use mentorship and to reach out to people that you, you know, wanna learn how to do what they're doing, cuz most people who are passionate professionals or, you know, really care about what they're doing, they want to help people out, you know, They wanna see people who are willing to do the hard work, willing to, uh, take the advice and do good things and, and go out and, and conquer and be awesome.

You know, we all want the field to have great people in it. And fire protection is in constant need of passionate, uh, professionals who care about, uh, fire and life safety and progressing the field. So I think it's, uh, just as invigorating. The person who gets to help out, you know, but agree with what you're saying.

You. Um, approaching people for me, mentorship is the two way street. You know, you have to kind of cultivate that rapport and relationship and, and be able to, uh, facilitate it from both sides instead of just viewing it as transactional. And I get what I need out of this relationship and, you know, then I move along or whatever.

So it's more fruitful in that way that you're talking about where you view it as a, like, Like, you know, uh, more of a friendship or, you know, you're not just taking. Right. Yeah. It's like, okay, I'm, I'm taking knowledge, but hopefully there's something that I can contribute to the conversation as well to make it too way.

You inspired me. I wanted to say that, that you inspire me by, you know, cuz uh, it took me so long for me to be able to do that, to reach out to people when I was so terrified. Um, when I first started reaching out to people for the podcast, I was just like, oh my gosh, like I'm just bothering this person. I feel so weird.

I feel like I wanna crawl outta my skin, uh, asking people to come on the podcast. So, uh, I think that's, that's why I'm saying it's a superpower and you should lean into that because it's really cool. And, and, uh, there's so many neat things that you can learn and ways to leverage that to grow in your, in your career.

So that's awesome. Thank you. Thank you. So we spoke a little bit about, um, you know, networking and mentoring and a little bit on the, the front side of your career. But so I wanna know about, so when you started learning about fire protection, you know, you mentioned a couple of good resources, but where did you go to start really learning about the profession and kind of figuring out, uh, what it means to be a fire protection?

Um, the simple answer, my mentor, Steven Barrett. I feel that that was my starting point when it comes to what a fire protection engineer is. Um, he was my, my first, my starting point. And from there, he kind of offered a bunch of resources that I could kind of start, like I've mentioned kind of learning. and just seeing in practice.

I, I, I'm lucky to have, um, across offices, we have a huge team of fire protection engineers, and I find that those are my peers and my seniors are my best resources at hand. Then, you know, when it comes to the practice and interpretation and whenever I have questions along the way, also, of course you need your N FBA, you know, um, knowledge, your Colia I've been since my.

Background is in mechanical. I've been taking an FBA life courses. Um, just for me to kind. Understand a little bit better. Um, the code and interpreting the code, um, like at web betters as well, YouTube, like I have a whole playlist of our protection engineer interviews. I have podcasts like yours. um, I, I don't know.

I love learning. that's awesome. I think that's so great. You know, somebody it's really surprising. Uh, I think. Something that will help anybody, you know, progress and, and stay relevant in your career. Is that, uh, pension to keep learning and to, to be curious, I think that it's something that has paid a lot of dividends in my career, so I think that's awesome.

Um, yeah, I wanted to ask about, uh, have you had any involvement in like professional societies or. You know, uh, anything like that for fire protection or any other professional pursuits? Yes. Um, I think looking back now that you've mentioned my, you know, the emotional intelligence, what I've learned about my soft skills it's because of fire engagement with professional organizations, like I've been involved with, um, engineering related organizations since I was a freshman in college.

So I feel like that kind of. My self skills, you know, self skills, skill set. And so to answer the question I've been involved with, like, um, NSPE national professional, um, societal professional engineers, um, NSBA um, also a member now, um, Ashray, that's for mechanical and as the studies, um, for forming as well.

So I think involving, I am involved in a couple of, um, professional. Organizations outside of of course work yeah. That's good stuff. Those sounds like you're I love that you have ver remained involved with some different disciplines. I think that it's probably gonna be. Uh, a good resource for you always in your career that you had that experience as in mechanical, because you know, there are plenty of people who are engineers who have more generalist kind of roles, you know, they do a little bit of everything.

So it's a real benefit that you have that background where you've seen a little bit of design for mechanical and plumbing. I think that's. Yes, it it's, it plays to my advantage, like, and I can say it from like very early on that I'm right now in my career. It's like, oh, I, I can understand how things kind of combine holistically and within the me MEP design.

So it's, it's pretty awesome. Like you eventually definitely has advantage. Yeah. Yeah. So. I, you know, in, in listening to your, your other podcasts and, you know, taking a look at your LinkedIn, I've noticed that you have a big focus on, you know, equity and diversity and inclusion. I'd love to talk about what you see as places where fire protection.

Can, uh, be better in this regard, you know, where do you see opportunities in that space for fire protection, fire and life safety? Um, I feel like there's a, a good space to, you know, help and increase these numbers when it comes to, um, diversity, equity and inclusion. Um, if I go to the macro as engineering, there's only 2% of the workforce are Latina.

As engineer. So of course, if it's only 2% of engineering, like it has to be like way less when it comes to like different niches. Right. So I feel like the best thing and something that I'm doing, um, as well is to put the word out there about what is in this case, fire protection engineering, what is life safety engineering?

Like what, why is important? Like, what even is it like, what do we do? I. The best thing that we can do at this moment is to put the word out there about our profession and about what we do. Cause once people know better, at least they have options to do better. Yeah. I think that's a great point. I think that, uh, the industry is really struggling to, uh, figure out how we get the word out.

What a good thing fire protection is, and you know, how much opportunity there is. And, you know, it kind of astounds me of, uh, the disparity in engineers, uh, between, uh, even just men and women let alone, um, you know, people of, uh, You know, a diverse range of yeah. People of backgrounds. Yeah. People of color typically.

Yeah. Yeah. And so to me, I'm just like, how do we get the word out in general about the industry and how do we make it more inclusive and bring people in, but it's, uh, I think, uh, there's so much opportunity and I just wanna let people know that, you know, it's a good field to, to be in. Um, I don't know, maybe that's some touchy feely stuff, but no, I feel like for honestly, what you're doing right here is this is great.

Like. If you think about it, like, because we've met because I, I heard about your, I started listening to your podcast and I started learning about what is fire protection engineering. And it is kind of a full circle moment. So in a way you're also contributing, cause I am a Latina, who's stepping into fire protection engineering and you know, this is the, to me, I'm a grassroot type of person.

And in my eyes, this is how change happens when you, like, you only need to impact one person's life to create. Yeah, I think it's, it is important. You know, we do really interesting and meaningful work and, um, I think we just need to lower that, uh, barrier for access for people to, to get the knowledge and to be curious and to, to pursue the field.

So I appreciate you saying that, that. That, uh, is meaningful to me. Uh it's uh, feels good to hear that. It's always, uh, sometimes you feel like you're doing these interviews kind of in a vacuum, cuz you know, I get to speak to these great people and then I release it and then it's out into the wind and it's gone and then it's on to the next week.

What's the next topic? right. It always is so nice. Sometimes people will reach out and say nice things and it makes my day, but it's uh, and that's enough of a reward. It feels good, but. Anyways enough self gratification, but , it's always good. Pat yourself on the shoulder is always good. well share. I've been so excited to hear, you know, kind of where you've been.

And, um, you know, now, uh, you've talked a little bit about what you're doing now. Um, you know, you don't have to speak any specifics, but I'd love to hear about some of the project work you're involved with now. And you could talk, you know, real broadly about occupancy types or general building types. You don't have to get into specifics about specific projects, but I'd love to hear about what kind of projects you're involved with now.

Yeah. Um, as of now, I'm mostly engaged with healthcare, um, and offices and business occupa. That's pretty much what I've been involved in. I've been doing fire protection, but I've been more involved into the live safety, which I, I really find fascinating. Um, just not only because of the complexity, of course, but of the LA to me, there's a lot of complexities in English is not my first language.

So there's not only the layer of the technical complexity, but also the language in my case, which I find very interest. Wow. So, yeah, , that's quite, I didn't even think about that as a, I mean, it's hard enough to read these code books. If English is your first language, I mean, they're so dry and, you know, formal most of the time about how they're describing these things and they can be kind of confusing requirements or not real clear requirements.

And so I'd never even thought about, you know, what if the English is not your first language. How much harder does that make these, these random code interpretations? We actually, we found a solution meeting me and Steven, cause I brought that to his attention. I'm like, I think that I'm struggling a lot with the language, like the language barrier being a huge thing.

And he proposed like, is there like an FPH handbook in Spanish? And I'm like, I have no idea. And there it is. So yeah, I have a Spanish and a CA co compliance. Yeah. I have a couple . Oh, nice. Yeah, that's a good tip. That's a good tip. I love hearing about that. Maybe that's a good tip for other people too, who might be having that same issue.

You know, I, uh, I don't know if you've heard it, but there is another Spanish speaking fire alarm podcast, uh, that I've seen out there too. And, you know, I was like, man, I wish I could speak Spanish. I would love to talk with these people about fire and life safety, but, uh, I'd follow 'em on LinkedIn or had to find it and throw it in the show notes.

But, um, yeah, you said you'd heard. Yes. Yeah. I think I've heard, um, an episode, you know, scrambling on the Spotify world. so, yeah, I, um, did I? No. No, this is another thing. Nevermind. This is another thing. Sorry. I was like, wait. Okay. I'm thinking I, no worries. I'll find it. I'll find it and throw it in the show notes for anybody who's interested, but, uh, yeah, no.

Yeah. It's, it's awesome that some people are starting to, to get out there and get into it. Well, that sounds really fascinating that you've been involved in healthcare work. That's some of the most, uh, kind of challenging some of the most challenging fire line safety work. There is out. Hospitals and healthcare is so nuanced and complex when it comes to fire protection.

It's really challenging. I love it. I love it. I like it so much. I, I find it very fascinating. How, I don't know. I tend to see problems and solutions, almost like pieces of a puzzle and almost in my head like, oh, how do you rotate the piece to make it. So to me, kind of, you know, navigating healthcare and like life safety and all, you know, one on one and how that works is very interesting.

How, again, you don't have the same solution. Or the, you know, you can have the same exact problem and you will find like different solutions every time because the constraints are different. Yeah. It's definitely strange. You think you'd run out of, of, uh, different problems, but it's always something new.

It's almost never the same thing over and over again. It always feels like you're struggling with some new little snippet. Uh, you know, random sprinkler, uh, application or, uh, fire alarm interface for this week, I was dealing with, uh, coiling smoke doors for, uh, opening protections for elevators. And I'm like, oh my gosh, never had to deal with this before.

What is UL? 1784. What is an FPA? 80. You know, I, I, I've never had to deal with this. Why, you know, do we really need this where's this at, in the building code, you know? And just, uh, you know, I've been doing this for coming up on six years and it's still encountering those new problems. So, um, it's really fun to just be kind of challenged like that.

Yes, it it's. It's very interesting. I agree with you. I don't know. I, the more that I kind of start doubling into it, the more curious, um, that I am, the more fascinated that I am with the profession and I kind of can confirming like, oh, I, I made the right move here. Um, it doesn't feel like work for the most part.

And you know, there's a lot of learning that happens on my free time. Because again, I do recognize that I come from a different back. So, and it really doesn't feel like work. So yeah, that kind of keeps confirming that I made the right choice here. that's awesome. Well, yeah, that extra work is gonna pay off.

I know for out, I know without a doubt, I know it is already paying off for you, so that's a good deal. But so I wanted to talk about, you know, so we've talked about where you've been, we talked about, you know, what you're working on now. Uh, where do you see, like, what are your big and bold dreams for what you wanna do in the next five years?

And, and, you know, in line with kind of, uh, becoming a better FPE and professional, you know, what, what's your five years, uh, plan kinda look like for J. It is interesting. Cause if you would've asked me that question a year ago, I would've told you like step by step my next five years. Um, now I see it more of like, you know, life doesn't have to be that strict.

Um, the only thing that for sure, I know I will be, I will become a professional engineer within the next five. Um, and you know, the rest, I will keep showing up as my best as I've been doing this whole time and just see where, you know, it gets me so far. I can't complain. , that's a good way to take it. It's hard to, it's good to have some goals, but it's hard to be too set on any one thing of life is pretty wild.

I understand what you're saying. I don't know. I feel like I've always kind of had like, oh, what's next two, three years, but then life always kind of has its own decision. So yes, that's a good thing, but yeah. So have you taken your, your Fe yet or have you gotten, I'm taking, I'm taking it, um, within the next two months.

Oh my goodness. So you're in the think of it then? Yes I am. which one are you taking? Are you taking the other disciplines? Are you taking the mechanical one? Oh, I'm taking other disciplines. Yeah. Uh, I'm going through other disciplines. that's a good idea. I think that the mechanical one's supposed to be much harder.

I took other disciplines and passed other disciplines and, you know, surprisingly there was like a, there was one fire alarm question in there. It was like a battery calc question. And I was like, wow, I really did not expect anything to do with fire protection in this exam. So there actually ended being something in.

Oh, that's good to know though. Thank you. yeah, yeah. Yeah. That's awesome. Well, that's exciting. It's good. Uh, good to get that FY out of the way as, as close as you can to school, because it feels like that that stuff, uh, starts to go, even though you could probably still pick it up, if you crank out enough practice problems.

Exactly. um, yeah. So as somebody who has. Really excelled in, um, kind of seeking out professional development and just learning and growing. Uh, what kind of advice would you give to, um, a professional that's maybe, you know, in a similar situation in their career? JRA uh, so I would start with being proactive.

Try, um, try your best to be reliable. Also, you need to understand and recognize that at this stage, you really know nothing. And you know, that is totally okay. That is expected. Um, definitely ask a bunch of questions, communicate effectively and very clearly and understand, um, to the point, what are the expectations of the tasks that you are being assigned?

For example, I feel like, yeah, you're not expected to know the answers and you're definitely gonna make mistakes, but at least that you're being proactive. It's, you know, you're showing up already and it shows interest. So I would say being proactive, ask questions and something that, um, Steve tells me a lot is that I am building my knowledge, um, break by.

So, yeah, just build that toolkit on a break by break basis. that's a great piece of advice. I love that I've been, I've been, uh, in the process of onboarding, uh, new staff at my company and. And she's just, I can just see it, you know, every week there's a different brick that, you know, or set of bricks that have been laid down with whatever it is, Revit or, you know, fire suppression system components, or, you know, general construction terms and, you know, project deliverables and what that means.

And so it's, I think it's easy to be disheartened by how much stuff there is to learn, but you just gotta remember that. It just takes time and you gotta, you gotta build that knowledge brick by brick. It is a daily practice though. Cause as, as high achievers, sometimes it gets hard to not have unrealistic expectations, which is that's when it's perfect timing to have mentors to call you out in those type of scenarios.

yeah, I remember. And it's, and it's unfortunate too, that when you're in like that early part of your career, You know, you're just like, you're like, I just really wanna know this answer now. Like, can I know now, like, can I understand it now? And then it just is, so it just doesn't come easy. And then, you know, it's just, it's kind of interesting.

The, the more you keep learning, it just kind of starts to, you start to retain that knowledge just faster and faster and faster. And then the next thing you. That thing that you dreaded, maybe it was doing a fire riser detail your first time, and you didn't, you know, had struggled with all the parts and pieces and couldn't understand why some of it was code required.

And now that's, you know, just easy or wrote task and you don't even worry about it. So it's weird how that, that change happens slowly. And then by the time it happens, you don't even realize it. And you're on to the next. Yes, a hundred percent. It, I was actually thinking about that this week, cuz it's like, wow.

Like four months ago. I really did not know anything. And now it's like, Ooh, I know a couple of things that I did not know, like back in September. So it's been pretty cool to kind of look back and see how much I've learned so far. That's awesome. I like that. So I always like to, in the episode with a couple of different professional development topics, and it's kind of been a theme throughout our entire conversation.

Just a couple things here to round out the interview. Uh, first one is, um, what do you see as a meaningful trend in fire and life safety? Um, we talked about a couple of things of macro level, what we're seeing in the industry off air before the, the podcast started. But I'd love to hear your thoughts on that.

So from. I feel like right now, I am a fly on the wall when it comes to these conversations. But what I've noticed is there's a lot of conversations when it comes to fire modeling and EG Eagers modeling. I feel like that's going, if it's not already, it's going to be a trend. I feel like once AI keeps evolving where still we're not gonna keep leveraging on those tools to, even though it's not.

It's always a good practice, you know, it's safety. So we should be as accurate as possible. So I would say, yeah, um, fire modeling. Ooh, that's cool. I like that. I wish I knew how to fire model. I haven't the firm I work for now. Doesn't do much performance based design, but I think it's so, uh, interesting. I would love to.

Love to learn about that subject. I think you're, I think you're right about how it's, uh, on the uptick in my company. Um, we have an expert in, um, about in fire modeling and he's, um, right now kind of starting to train. The younger crowd and of course I'm into that pool. So I'm very excited to start learning about power modeling.

I'm not gonna lie to you. you're gonna have to tell me how it goes. That sounds really interesting. Yeah. It's kind of like that, uh, really neat kind of like computer programming, nerdy stuff that like you always see in magazines, they got cool diagrams of like zone modeling and CFD and stuff. And so. I've always had a real fascination with that.

That's neat. You'll have to tell me how it goes. Yes, I will. but, um, so we talked already about, you know, you said that your, your biggest resources been your mentor, but, um, in learning, uh, you know, what's helped you the most, has it been those code books that are in Spanish or, you know, how, what has been your thoughts on those training courses?

From NFPA. Um, so I took the first one. I, it was a one on one on the life safety one, and it was amazing. It was worth every single thing. I would encourage everyone. Who's interested in learning more about, um, you know, the handbooks to, you know, enroll and take these courses. Cause it was a lot of things clicked for me after, you know, I finished that.

I would say YouTube as well. I've learned a bunch of things from YouTube. Um, there's lot of UL webinars that are for free. Um, I also think that NH PA also offers some, um, webinars that are free, but I'm not entirely sure. Um, LinkedIn as well. I know that Linda, um, part of it, I've watched a couple of. and the reps also have like a bunch of good resources.

Um, when it comes like I've seen fire pumps, videos, acting like fire alarm, like there's like a bunch of free resources that you can start learning from. If you're interested, um, about the, the profession in the field. Yeah, I think that that's a good point. Uh, there's a lot of, a lot of professional societies, like American fire alarm association and national fire sprinkler association and, uh, like, uh, American fire sprinkler association, like they'll host a couple of free webinars, even though, uh, the, probably the lion share of them are paid for.

Um, they'll still like, even in FPA, we'll have free webinars. I forget. Uh, they had a really good one about, uh, warehouse fire protection last year. I remember attending. And so also, uh, you know, there are other life safety podcasts out there, fire and life safety podcasts, like, um, N FPA and ICC have podcasts.

Uh, so yeah, there's a lot of good resources out there for fire protection professionals or at least if you, if you're willing to dig a little bit they're out there. Right. But, um, it's hard to know. Yes. I feel like these type of efforts, like you putting information out there and, um, you know, other people also putting themselves and their knowledge out there will, is definitely contributing into this conversation and into making change happen.

Yeah, I sure hope so. I mean, uh, a lot of the reason why I started this, uh, endeavor was too, cuz I just, when I started, I was like a, a year in and I was like, well, I kind of get the basics, but I really don't understand the big picture. And it's kind, uh, it's kind of really bugging me that I don't get the big picture and I wanna know now and so.

This has been my way of trying to talk to people from a variety of backgrounds and, uh, and you know, what we do, and also outside of we, what we do. And so I hope, I hope somebody finds it interesting and, you know, can, can help try to facilitate that discussion around, um, different resources and let people know.

where they can go find other good stuff because, uh, yeah, that's the goal. But, um, anyways, JIRA, I think that, uh, mostly does it for, um, the questions that I had prepared, but, um, is there anything that you would like to talk about in conclusion or anything that you would like to ask me? Not to put you on the spot?

Actually I'm very interested about is a question about you. Like, how do you see kind of things moving? Because before we started recording, we were talking about working remote and the adjustment, like mm-hmm how do you see yourself kind of moving forward with this type of. Environment or like the adjustment, I don't know.

Yeah. How do you see yourself moving forward? Yeah. Yeah. I think that working remotely has just become something that companies, uh, who really wanna grow and stay competitive in the industry. They're gonna have to. Wrap their heads around it, right? Because if you want to be competitive on, uh, you know, a national or an international perspective, uh, you are going to need to embrace some level of remote work in order to attract talent.

So, uh, for me, I, uh, I like the hybrid system, you know, maybe the majority of the week you're in the office, but you have the option or the ability to, uh, work remotely. And, you know, uh, have that flexibility. I think that is a fabulous benefit for, uh, workers, for people to who have lives, or maybe you have sick kids or you have to a repair person needs to come to your, uh, house or apartment.

And so I think that there. It's not going away remote. Work's not going away. Um, I think it's here to stay. So it's interesting. I think there's pros and cons it like a little bit of what we talked about, um, before the pod got started, you know, um, there's inherent efficiencies and inefficiencies to, uh, work in remote or working in the office.

So, uh, yeah, I think it's a, it's a kind of a double edged sword. There's good things. And there's bad things about. Yeah, actually, this made me think about another question, sorry. Sure. So since, you know, a lot of us are starting our careers for the most part remotely, what advice would you give? Ooh. Yeah, that's a good question.

I think, you know, I think fostering that mentor relationship remotely is a lot harder because in person people can kind of stop by or see when you're floundering. But remotely, it is a lot harder for people to, you know, kind of engage and, you know, be connected with. That, uh, mentor mentee kind of a relationship to build that rapport.

So I think my piece of advice would be to really lean into finding somebody who has the ability to mentor. Uh, not everybody kind of has that disposition or inclination to want to take on somebody and really teach them a. Uh, some people are just more naturally geared for that. So seek out that person that you see has some proclivity for teaching and learning, and really try to engage that person.

And don't wait for them to. To, to ask you how you're doing, or if you have it all figured out that like you were saying earlier, be proactive, engage, engage your mentor, engage your network for solving problems and, you know, really focus in on, uh, getting the task done. And, and, you know, don't wait, don't be a hand fed bear.

Don't wait for people to bring you work, go, you know, knock on their door and say, Hey, what can I do? You know, what, how can I, how can I create value? So I think that would be my advice. Thank you. thank you. I appreciate it a lot. yeah, no worries. Awesome. Well, JIRA, I just want to thank you so much for coming on the podcast.

I'm really excited to see what you're gonna do in your career. I know it's gonna be big things, but yeah. Thank you for coming on the podcast. Thank you so much for having me guys it's being a pleasure. I hope we keep in touch and keep chatting. without a doubt. Thanks for listening. Everybody. Be sure to share the episode with a friend, if you enjoyed it, don't forget that fire protection and life safety is serious business.

The views and opinions expressed on this podcast are by no means a professional consultation or a codes and standards interpretation. Be sure to contact a licensed professional. If you are getting involved with fire protection and or life safety. Thanks again. And we'll see you next time.

In episode we are talking fire protection system ITM! We get into codes and standards, impairment plans, and key critical definitions for the subject.

Transcription

Hello. Welcome to the solo cast of fire code tech in these episodes. It's just gonna be me, your host, Gus Gagliardi. There's gonna be a range of topics, but I'm gonna talk about specific technologies, installation, standards, codes, and how they work as well as some other interesting topics that don't neatly fit inside of the context of a normal interview.

Hello, all welcome to episode 28 at the solo cast of fire code. Our topic for today is inspection, testing and maintenance. We're gonna take a broad overview of ITM, inspection, testing, and maintenance, and go through the codes and standards. Uh, talk about impairment plans and also, you know, just describe the importance of this task.

I know it's not a very glamorous thing in fire and life safety, which is our already hyper niche and something that is often overlooked, but it is extremely important. And there. There's a lot of room for growth and inspection, testing and maintenance. So I want to talk about this topic. This episode is gonna be really broad.

Um, we're gonna focus on N FPA 25, which is the, uh, inspection testing and maintenance standard for water based systems. And so we're gonna keep it high level and. Episodes down the line. We're gonna talk more closely about specific systems. Do me a favor and hit that subscribe button wherever you listen to podcast.

Also, if you could give us a five star review on either YouTube or apple podcast, that is a huge help to the algorithm. Thanks for listening in. Let's get into the show. Let's start out with some very basic inform. I want to come back to the codes and standards around inspection, testing, and maintenance, but for the purpose of definitions in setting the table, I just wanna bring up the piece of information that in FPA 25 is the standard for inspection, testing, and maintenance of water based fire protection systems.

That being said, I'm going to go over some key definitions in NFPA 25 in order to preface our discuss. First, what is inspection, testing, and maintenance? I think these terms get confused a lot. So I want to keep the audience appraised of what these are in case you haven't taken the trouble to go specifically, look at how these are defined.

You may know notionally what these are, but I found it kind of interesting to read these definitions and see the more formal. Description of what these terms mean, inspection a visual examination of a system or portion thereof to verify that it appears to be in operating condition and is free of physical damage.

So inspection is visual. Um, we're gonna talk later on in the episode about, um, some of the frequencies or kind of what these procedures look like, but inspection is a visual. Um, you may have heard me speak about in other, uh, fire code tech episodes, the standard for remote inspection. Um, that is, uh, nine 15.

I believe this is not, uh, remote testing or remote maintenance. This is remote inspection. So that is, uh, just to illustrate how it's important to understand the difference between these, uh, terms. Testing a procedure used to determine the operational status of a component or system by conducting periodic physical checks, such as water flow tests, fire pump tests, alarm tests, and trip tests of a dry pipe, deluge or reaction valves.

So testing, I feel like is the one that everybody thinks. That, you know, a test or ability to testing is functional performance of the fire protection system. So it's a main drain test. So you're opening the valve, you know, in order to gauge some performance metrics for the fire protection system, it's pulling the pole station in order to verify operation test is I feel like the, I don't, it's not a good word, but the, the visually engaging one or.

You know, kind of more exciting one out of the ITM group. And then the last one is maintenance in water based fire protection systems work, perform to keep equipment operable. So these are, uh, regular routine. Things that you can do mechanically or electrically to these systems in order to verify that they are going to stay in use an example of a maintenance item could be a replacement of sprinkler heads or, you know, checking low point drains or drum drips.

So here's another definition I thought was interesting and a good piece of info for the beginning of the pod inspection testing and maintenance service. This is a definition that kind of describes a broader overall program for how these different pieces of, uh, care for fire protection systems get incorporated.

Service program provided by a qualified contractor or qualified personnel property owners representative in which all components unique to the property systems are inspected and tested at the required times and necessary maintenance is provided. So this is interesting because it sets the table for, you know, our discussion of who is responsible for these, um, inspection testing and maintenance items.

In chapter four of NFPA, 25 as more specifically section 4.1 0.1. Uh, we find the answer to this question who is responsible for the. Inspection testing and maintenance of fire protection systems. Uh, it says 4.1 0.1, the property owner or designated representative shall be responsible for properly maintaining a water based fire suppression system.

Furthermore, we go on to talk about that. Not only are these designated representatives responsible, but these tasks must be performed by a qualified professional or person. So this can oftentimes be a suppression or fire alarm contracting firm. Um, and they might perform these services on behalf of the building owner.

Or if you get a much larger facility like a hospital or a college campus, you might have staff who are, um, capable of performing these tasks and providing the, the records of these things taking place. So that might be, uh, a generalist, um, staff person for a university or healthcare campus. So now that we've kind of defined what is inspection, testing, and maintenance and who is responsible for this activity?

Uh, let's talk about. The codes and standards around the subject, just as a preface. You know, I know I talked about this in, uh, more than a couple episodes, but all codes and standards are available for free online. If you're looking for the international family of codes, you can go to I's website and, uh, login log into a free account there, and look at the, all the international building codes.

Or you could take a look at sites like up codes who have. Free services as well to look at building and fire codes. And then if you want to take a look at any N a PA standard, you would like, you can sign up for a free account and take a look at those standards, um, online as well. So all these documents are available to you.

And so I, I talk a lot about codes and standards, but I just wanted to reiterate the, uh, availability of these documents. So the codes portion of our discussion, uh, you know, centers around chapter nine for fire protection systems and more specifically section 9 0 1 and in 9 0 1 0.6 0.1, which is titled standard.

It says, uh, fire protection systems shall be inspected, tested and maintained in, in accordance with the reference standards listed in table 9 0 1 0.6 0.1. And so if you look at the individual chapters, there will be, you know, different criteria for, uh, monitoring and installation. And, but the maintenance portion of the fire protection systems is located in section 9 0 1, which I found a bit interesting.

There is different criteria in here for impairments and. Kind of general fine life safety features, um, in 9 0 1, which is titled general makes a lot of sense. So the requirements for ITM stem from, uh, 9 0 1 0.6 0.1 in the building code for your reference. And then furthermore, we can talk about, you know, what systems have explicit criteria in the building code to be.

You know, inspected, tested, and maintained. So these are a couple of the systems and they're explicit listings in the building code. So for portable fire extinguishers, we have N FPA 10. We'll tell you how to perform ITM tasks. And then carbon dioxide systems is N FPA 12 Halan 1301 fire extinguishing systems will be an F P 12.

Dry Kim and wet Kim extinguishing systems. That's N FPA 17 and 17, a water based fire protection systems. So I feel like the lion share of ITM tasks, you know, NFP 10 is a big one, but the two behemoth are N FPA 25 for water based systems and NFPA 72 for fire alarm systems. And then. I'd never heard of this standard before.

Uh, but for smoke and heat vents, we have N FPA 2 0 4 water. Miss systems is N FPA seven 50. And from our discussion last week, over clean agent systems, we have NFPA 2001 for ITM tasks for clean agent extinguishing systems. Additionally section 9 0 1 discusses, kind of the wound to tomb. Implications for inspection, testing and maintenance for fire protection systems.

And so we have discussion of initial aha compliance. And then also towards the end of the chapter, we discussed what the end of the life cycle of the fire protection system might look like with removing, uh, you know, the services or monitoring or some of these different. Parts and pieces of fire protection systems.

And then in between that is, you know, when you schedule these different, uh, testing, um, and maintenance items, there could be interruptions to the service of the fire protection system. This is important because you are disabling, uh, potentially disabling the ability of the fire protection system to do what is designed to do.

Which, uh, prevents, which provides a scenario in which we are, uh, removing a critical infrastructure piece of the building for the fine life safety. So we have to have specific plans and procedures in place for when these things happen so that if there were a fire and we did not have the sprinkler system say for instance, in service, um, the building would be.

Hindered in its, um, designed capability to promote life safety. So we have to be very intentional about these disruptions. These conditions are called an impairment. And so I want to go over the definition of what an impairment is. So that we can discuss it further. Impairment is defined in NFPA 25 as a condition where fire protection system or unit or portion thereof is out of order.

And in a condition can result in fire protection system or unit not functioning during a fire event, there are explicit policies and procedures and building code and an, an FPA 25 for what to do in case of an impair. I want to go over these because there are plenty of situations in which a building owner, uh, might need to be appraised of what these procedures look like.

And if they have major work going on in their facility, construction, or, uh, major rehaul and refurbishment of a fire protection system, you're going to need an impairment plan. Oftentimes a contractor will be able to provide. Or the maintaining company will be able to provide an impairment plan, but, uh, it's your job as a fire and line safety professional to know about the existence of impairment plans and some of the details that are important for these plans.

So what the codes have to say about impairment plans are, uh, in section 9 0 1 0.7 0.4 pre-planned impairment programs. So there's two types of impairments. Emergency planned impairments. So this one is, you know, in reference to the impairment that you're planning for, say you have some scheduled testing or maintenance.

Um, these are the details that you need to provide in your impairment program slash plan. Pre-planned impairment shall be authorized by the impairment coordinator. So that is an individual who is in charge of the impairment and kind of has the authority to, uh, guide these programs through. And then a section goes on to say, before authorization is given a designated individual, shall be responsible for verifying that all the following procedures have been implement.

Number one says the extent and expected duration of the impairment have been determined. Number two is areas or buildings involved have been inspected and the increased risk determined. So I think that's important note, if you don't know how long these impairments are gonna take. And you just start disabling fire protection systems, uh, with disregard for the impact to the facility or the overall life safety you're gonna have.

You could very easily have a situation in which you need a fire watch, or there's an extended outage in a fire protection system, which is not a good deal. Number three says recommendations have been submitted to management or the building owner slash manager. The fire department has been notified.

That's a really good one. Anytime you ever do commissioning or testing, uh, as a professional who may be help running the show, um, everybody needs a reminder to let the fire department know you don't want the fire department to be showing up, uh, very likely finding your operation and, uh, providing a lot of distress for everybody involved.

Number five is the insurance carrier, the alarm company, the building owner, and other authorities having jurisdiction have been notified. This might be important because you have a large insurance carrier like FM global or a, uh, other like a Excel gaps. Um, they might have specific details for their impairment plan that they require for you to do any of this work.

I believe FM has their own data sheet on impairment plans or ITM for sure. Number six is the supervisors in the areas have been affected, have been notified. Uh, seven is a tag impairment system has been implemented. So it's interesting that impairment plans have a really. Interesting signaling system. So like tags on the system and signage on doors and areas that are affected.

So not only are you notifying the people who are knowledgeable, but you also notifying people that could be walking into the space and not understanding what the, uh, you know, hazard could be. And then number eight is necessary. Tools and materials have been assembled on the impairment. So we've talked a lot about NFPA 25, but uh, to further our discussion, I know we got sidetracked on impairments, but to further our discussion on, uh, codes and standards for inspection testing and maintenance, NFPA 25 is, uh, the, really the, the main like document for inspection, testing, and maintenance for water based systems.

And it has a lot of great information. It will tell you the. Frequencies and a further description of the tests involved for water based systems. It is broken down in the first two chapters. The first three chapters are the same as all NPA documents, administration, reference, publication, and definitions.

Uh, then you get into a chapter four, which is general requirements, and then the, the standard is broken down into system categories. I'll just go through the systems, just so that you will have some idea of all the systems that are covered in N FPA 25 sprinklers, standpipes, and hone systems, private fire service mains.

So that's, uh, underground fire protection, piping chapter eight, fire pumps, chapter nine, water storage tanks, chapter 10, water spray, fixed systems, chapter 11 foam systems. 12 water, miss systems, 13 common components valves. So there are system specific pieces. And then there are chapter 13 is kind of the grab bag of valves and components, fittings, et cetera.

And then chapter 14 is internal piping and condition obstruction investigation. There is special. Inspections for internally inspecting, uh, fire protection piping. I think that it depends on the system, but commonly I've seen the interval at about five year instruction, obstruction inspections for the evolving chapter 15 is impairment.

So there's a lot of great information about impairments and impairment plans. In chapter 15. I know we talked about some of the building code stipulations for impairments. There is a wealth of knowledge about impairments in chapter 15. And then chapter 16 is special requirements from other NPA documents.

I think that's gonna be it for this session about inspection, testing and maintenance. I hope that wasn't too broad to be useful. Uh, next time we'll dive in deep on sprinkler systems or fire alarm systems and their respective more detailed maintenance items. Thank you all for listening, and I hope you tune in next time.

Thanks for listening everybody. Be sure to share the episode with a friend, if you enjoyed it, don't forget that fire protection and life safety is serious business. The views and opinions expressed on this podcast are by no means a professional consultation or a codes and standards interpretation. Be sure to contact a licensed professional, if you are getting involved with fire protection and or life safety.

Thanks again. And we'll see you next time.