Consider supporting Fire Philosophy if our conversations with Steven Heine, Agnes Callard, Stephen Batchelor, Joanna Klink, Karen King, and now Michelle Huneven have brought value and insight into your life’s journey.
➡️ You can find Bug Hollow here.
Dale is also a huge fan of Michelle’s book Blame:
To understand the full context of the quotations below, we highly encourage you to listen to our whole conversation with Michelle Huneven in the video above.
You just have to keep going. You need to buy clothes. You need to buy a cage for your bird. You need to buy a fishbowl for the two fish you rescued from the debris soaked pond.
And I think that one of the problems is, I think the body gives you a grace period. And then when you're ready, you can start to feel stuff. And what happens is that you go to make a dish and you think, oh, I need some sumac, I've got sumac. And, no, I don't have sumac. It burnt. Or you think, oh, I had that nice little shovel. No, I don't have that shovel. It burnt.
I see a homeless man, I tear up, I see a dog with three legs I tear up. But I don't mind that; I like being so tender to the world or so raw to the world.
Their suddenly being gone and so sudden like you're the change in your life. I think that's a definition of grief. I think my experience of grief is that you have to think everything you possibly can about that person or that place before grief is done with you.
It's like grief has you by the scruff of the neck and it's you lost this, you lost that. This is gone. That's gone. And I'm not sure it ever completely, lets go. I'm still grieving people that died many years ago, 20 years ago, 30 years ago, more.
So it's not even, how do you be a good person in this world? It's how do you just live in this world? But I think that the more comfortable you are with this difficult world is how spiritual you are in a way. How do you find a way to live? And I think that every single one of my characters grapples with it.
I wondered how do you know if you're a good person or if you're claimed by darkness? And I think that's something that I've always been interested in. How do you know if you're a good person?
What I learned was that I'm full of characters. I've got a river of themes and interests and characters up there that I just need to tap in a kind of free associative way but it established that relationship that wasn't there. I went from having no ideas to having a lot of ideas.
But another huge difference that I finally came to discover is that the difference between thinking that your life is just in this channel and it's just happening and realizing that imagination can really extend those boundaries and send you off in directions that you might not otherwise have realized were possible.
It matters to you what kind of shovel you're using in the garden, and for most people, they couldn't care less. But for you, the way you do everything, what you read and eat and cook and tend your garden and take care of your chickens and travel and write, all of these are made to be beautiful, and aesthetically real in your life.
I've always seen style as the way you finess your limitations. You butt-up against your limitations, and then you have to finesse it. Look at Leonard Cohen, somebody one time said he mastered the notes of A and B, he does not have great singing range. And yet, he's a total genius. People might disagree with me, but I think that he's fantastic, but he does have limitations. And yet how he finesse them is his style, is his signature style.
And I think as a writer, you're writing always just up against your own limitations. You're writing at the edge of your vision, and you think as you get to be a better writer, that you have more access. But that just keeps going. You're always out of reach of what, at least I am, of what I can actually do.
If you believe in God, God is creating God's self. That's standard process theology in a way, I think, I really do believe that every act of living is creative and that probably results in what you’re calling style. In a funny way, I resist it because you make me sound like a yuppie who just lives the beautiful life and buys the most beautiful things.
And now that you, say it that way, I realize all of my life I've been a rebel against style, very careful not to be stylish, but that of course is a style that's very particular of somebody who's always revolting on the edges. But in Nietzsche's sense I think it means very much how you described it, and that was really wonderful.
That you are out on the edges of your limitations and you're out on the edges of your imagination. You've got these choices to make, and there they are. Why not make them? And why not carve something unique?
To make my character Sybil, the mother, a complex a character I had to eliminate a hundred other complexities in a way. I tried to fit them all in, but you really have to simplify in order to get them on the page because they contain multitudes.
I've always felt like fiction will answer those questions that you'd rather not live. For example, what happens when you live next door to a bad boyfriend that you broke up with in the worst possible way? Then you get Wuthering Heights.
I was raised on books, which is probably why I write books. My question, how do people live in this world was a question that I posed every time I opened a book. More or less unconsciously, but I was trying to figure out how to be a human being.
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