In this episode of Firm Factor, we examine the $11.5 million discrimination judgment against the Society for Human Resource Management (SHRM) and what it signals for organizations navigating compliance, accountability, and brand risk. Joined by new co-host Darin Fenn, we discuss how reputational trust can erode quickly when customer experience and ethical standards are deprioritized.

We also explore the growing use of AI in customer-facing roles, particularly in the legal industry, and question whether efficiency gains are worth the loss of human judgment and empathy. The episode closes with a clear takeaway: technology can support great service, but it cannot replace the people who make it meaningful.

Takeaways:

• Darin joins us as co-host, bringing a wealth of experience in business growth.
• We discuss the shocking $11.5 million judgment against SHRM for racial discrimination.
• Trust in businesses can be lost quickly, often due to one negative review or incident.
• AI in customer service has mixed reviews, with many preferring human interaction.
• The legal industry is facing challenges as AI tools become more integrated into daily tasks.
• Human judgment is crucial in overseeing AI outputs to avoid errors in legal practice.

Links referenced in this episode:

• legalrev.com
• thyme.org

Companies mentioned in this episode:

• Apple
• Legal Rev
• Hemet Law
• SHRM
• Klarna
• Clio
• ABC Legal
• Gusto
• Zenefits
• Semrush
• Adobe

Happy Thanksgiving, everyone! We’re kicking things off with some exciting news about our new podcast studio. We’ve spruced things up around here, and it’s looking real nice. Since it’s the holiday season, we decided to do something special. Today, John is chatting with one of the associate attorneys from Hemmat Law to dive into what recruiting looks like at a firm that people actually want to be a part of.

For those who’ve been following us, you might have noticed that we’ve been recording in a more basic setup for a while now. But we’ve leveled up big time! We revamped everything, from the decor to our comfy new chairs, making it all look super inviting. It’s a fresh start, just in time for the holiday season. Speaking of the holidays, we decided to do something unique for our listeners today. We’re diving into a conversation with an associate attorney from Hemmat Law. They’re going to shed some light on what it’s like to be part of a law firm that’s not only reputable but also a really desirable place to work. It’s a fascinating glimpse into the recruiting process at Hemmat Law, where they’ve had a stellar summer and are looking to build on that success. So, settle in as we explore what makes this firm stand out in the legal world and why it’s a great place for new talent to grow their careers.

Takeaways:

• We just revamped our podcast studio, making it look fresh and welcoming for everyone.
• It's Thanksgiving, and we wanted to share something special with our listeners today.
• I chatted with an associate attorney from Hemmat Law about their recruitment process.
• Hemmat Law had a great summer, which reflects well on their work environment.
• The new chairs in the studio are actually really comfortable and make a big difference.
• We aim to give insights into what makes a law firm a desirable place to work.

Companies mentioned in this episode:

• Thyme Media
• Hemmat Law

Hemmat Law is a family law firm based in Seattle that's been on a wild ride of growth. We talk about how we started small, just two people, and now we've expanded to a team of 30, making big moves in family law litigation. The main takeaway here is that enjoying your work can really set you apart in this game. We dive into the story behind Hemmat Law, explaining what it is and how we got to where we are today. It's all about making a difference in people's lives and having fun while doing it.

Takeaways:

• Hemmat Law has grown rapidly from a two-person team to a thirty-person firm in just a few years. This growth is primarily in family law litigation, a field they find crucial and fulfilling.
• The firm's success isn't due to a secret sauce; it's about hard work, efficiency, and a strong focus on client service in family law, which drives their business model.
• Hiring the right people is key to Hemmat Law's culture. They prioritize finding team members who are both competent and enjoyable to work with, ensuring a healthy workplace.
• The importance of a strong online presence is emphasized; their website is designed to attract clients by being visually appealing and user-friendly.
• Hemmat Law aims to educate the public about legal matters through a planned YouTube channel, hoping to provide valuable content and establish themselves as a leading authority in family law.
• Their business model focuses on serving high net worth clients by providing fast services, demonstrating that speed is often more valuable than traditional notions of quality in legal services.

Links referenced in this episode:

• legalrev.com
• The Hemmat Law Group

Companies mentioned in this episode:

• Hemmat Law
• Legal Rev
• Clio
• Lemonade

Today, we're diving into some common misconceptions about legal marketing that can really mess up a law firm's game. We kick things off by discussing how many firms think they need to be on every social media platform to reach clients, but that's not always the way to go. Instead, we talk about focusing on just one or two platforms where your ideal clients actually hang out. We also explore how good branding can lead to charging higher fees and why just having traffic on your website doesn't guarantee new clients. It's all about creating a solid experience for visitors and following through on the promises you make. So, let’s clear up the confusion and get your marketing strategy on point!

In this podcast episode, we take a closer look at the misconceptions that often cloud the marketing and branding strategies of law firms. We start by addressing the common belief that firms need to be visible on all social media platforms. We explain that spreading resources too thin can dilute efforts and suggest that focusing on one or two platforms where clients are active is a more effective strategy. This targeted approach not only saves time but also leads to more meaningful interactions with potential clients.

The conversation then shifts to the evolution of SEO practices. We clarify that while keywords still play a role, the way people search has changed dramatically. Clients are now asking more nuanced questions, and firms must pivot their content strategies to provide answers that reflect this new search behavior. This means creating informative and relevant content that speaks directly to potential clients’ needs. Furthermore, we discuss the significance of branding and how a strong, trust-based brand can justify charging premium rates for legal services. This long-term view of brand equity is essential for firms aiming to thrive in a competitive environment.

Ultimately, the episode serves as a call to action for law firms to reassess their marketing strategies. We offer practical insights and tools to help improve online visibility and client engagement, reminding listeners that the goal is not just to increase traffic, but to convert that traffic into loyal clients. Building a reputable brand and maintaining trust is the foundation of sustainable success in the legal industry.

Takeaways:

• Hemmat Law charges above market because their strong brand presence builds trust among clients.
• It's essential to focus on one or two social media platforms that your clients actually use.
• SEO has evolved beyond just keywords; quality content answering user questions is now crucial.
• More website traffic doesn't guarantee more clients; optimizing user experience is key for conversions.
• Brand equity allows firms to charge higher fees based on trust and service quality, not just marketing spend.
• Google Local Service Ads can be useful, but they lack the optimization potential of traditional PPC campaigns.

Links referenced in this episode:

• legalrev.com
• clio.com
• metricool.com

Companies mentioned in this episode:

• Hemmat Law
• Metricool
• Legal Rep
• LegalRev
• Clio

Everyone’s talking about AI, but few actually understand how it works.

In this episode, we break down what large language models (LLMs) really are, how they function, and why it matters for the legal industry. We explain how these tools aren’t reasoning like humans. They’re predicting text based on patterns in massive datasets. That’s why they can sound confident while still getting things completely wrong. From hallucinations to context windows, we unpack the limits that make AI both powerful and unreliable, and how those limits impact law firms using AI for intake, research, and content creation. We also explore how to use AI responsibly, from building intake support systems to optimizing your firm’s online presence for visibility and trust in a post-Google world. AI won’t replace lawyers, but lawyers who understand AI will replace those who don’t.

• LLMs are predictive, not reasoning tools.
• AI can organize and summarize but can’t think critically.
• Hallucinations happen when pattern recognition goes too far.
• Infrastructure and human oversight are non-negotiable for AI success.
• Digital presence and authority still matter — maybe more than ever.

• Google • OpenAI • Anthropic • Oracle • LegalRev • Morgan & Morgan • Westlaw • LexisNexis • Hemmat Law • Perplexity • ChatGPT

Consultations can make or break your client intake strategy. In this episode, we explore why charging for them isn’t just about revenue — it’s about setting boundaries, defining your value, and attracting clients who truly respect your time and expertise.

We break down how consult fees can filter out tire-kickers, boost conversion rates, and help your team focus on clients ready to engage. You’ll also learn how same-day consultations and strong intake systems can build trust faster and improve overall client experience.

From pricing psychology to brand authority, this conversation dives into how law firms can move beyond volume-based thinking and start optimizing for the right clients. Whether you practice family law, estate planning, or business law, these lessons apply across the board: clarity, confidence, and client value win every time.

• Charging for consults filters serious clients and saves time.
• Define your ideal client profile to guide your intake strategy.
• Same-day consults can meaningfully increase conversion rates.
• Confident pricing builds brand authority and client trust.
• A responsive, intentional intake process drives firm growth.

• LegalRev
• Hemmat Law
• Clio
• Smith.ai is the customer service AI platform John uses for live receptionist support and client intake.

John just got back from ClioCon 2025, and he’s got some serious insights to share about the event. The main thing? Clio is making big moves into the enterprise world with products like Managed AI, designed to streamline processes for law firms. But there’s a catch — while the tech sounds impressive, John raises concerns about reliability and the risk of errors multiplying across practices.

He also dives into Clio’s new Buy Now, Pay Later option, which could reshape how clients pay for legal services, making access to representation more affordable. We’re breaking down all these developments and what they mean for law firms, so stick around!

The conversation kicks off with Rebecca and John unpacking John’s experience at ClioCon 2025. They explore the major product launches, highlighting Clio’s acquisition of Sharedo, an enterprise case management platform for larger firms. John notes how this marks a clear shift from Clio’s traditional small-firm focus. They also discuss the debut of Managed AI and Clio’s hints at expanding into legal research — potentially competing with Thomson Reuters and LexisNexis — though the details remain early-stage.

Despite the excitement, John expresses mild disappointment that this year’s conference repeated many of last year’s AI talking points without offering new, practical insights for practitioners. He stresses that law firms must learn to use these tools wisely rather than chase every shiny new tech feature.

Takeaways:

• Clio’s new enterprise focus was evident through the Sharedo acquisition and Managed AI rollout.
• The Buy Now, Pay Later option (via Affirm) could make client onboarding easier.
• AI’s potential is enormous, but uncritical reliance could introduce malpractice risks.
• Clio’s move into legal research hints at bigger ambitions, though outcomes are still uncertain.
• While AI innovation continues rapidly, firms must balance adoption with careful oversight.

Companies mentioned:

• Hemmat Law Group
• Clio
• Sharedo
• Affirm
• Thomson Reuters
• LexisNexis

Today, we're diving into some common misconceptions about legal marketing. A key takeaway is that just being on every social media platform isn’t the way to go. We talk about how focusing on one or two platforms where your clients hang out can be way more effective. Plus, we discuss the importance of having a solid website that converts visitors into clients, not just a lot of traffic. We also tackle the idea that more traffic equals more clients, which isn’t always true if your site isn’t set up right. Stick around as we break down these topics and share some practical insights for law firms looking to up their marketing game.

The discussion dives into the reality of legal marketing misconceptions, especially for law firms looking to up their game. We kick things off by tackling the myth that being on every social media platform is essential to reach clients. It's a common belief, but we share insights on how focusing on just one or two platforms where your ideal clients hang out can yield better results. We emphasize the importance of consistency and quality content over spreading resources too thin across multiple platforms. Our conversation then shifts to SEO, where we clarify that it’s not just about keywords anymore; it’s about answering the questions potential clients are asking online. We talk about how the landscape of searches has evolved, and how law firms need to adapt their content strategies accordingly. The takeaways? Be smart about your marketing efforts, target the right audience, and focus on creating valuable content that resonates with clients.

We further explore the notion that more traffic equals more clients, debunking this myth with some serious reality checks. Simply put, attracting visitors to your website is just the first step; if your site isn’t user-friendly or doesn’t convert traffic effectively, you’re missing the mark. We stress the importance of having a seamless user experience and clear calls to action to convert visitors into clients. The episode wraps with actionable advice: get honest feedback on your website from trusted sources to identify areas for improvement, and remember that brand equity is built over time through consistent messaging and reliable service. Ultimately, it’s about understanding the metrics that matter and ensuring that your marketing strategies align with your firm's values and goals.

Takeaways:

• Staying one step ahead of the law is key for any legal practice, especially in marketing.
• Don't try to be on every social media platform; focus on where your clients are.
• SEO has evolved; it's not just about keywords but answering the right questions.
• Traffic to your website is great, but it doesn't guarantee client conversions without optimization.

Links referenced in this episode:

• legalrev.com
• clio.com

Companies mentioned in this episode:

• Metricool
• LegalRev
• Clio

We're diving into the world of legal marketing myths today. We're setting the record straight on what actually works and what doesn't in attracting clients. A big takeaway is that many lawyers believe if they’re good, clients will just find them. But that’s not the case. We're exploring common misconceptions and the surprising facts that can really move the needle for law firms. So, if you're ready to bust some myths and get real about your marketing strategy, stick around.

Marketing and legal operations myths are front and center in this episode. We tackle common misconceptions that lawyers might have about how marketing actually works in the legal field. Starting with the idea that most people choose the first lawyer they find online, we reveal that over 70% of legal consumers do just that. This statistic opens up a discussion on the importance of being visible and having a solid online presence. We also dive into the notion that clients prioritize impressive credentials. Contrary to popular belief, responsiveness and reviews often matter more to clients than just flashy degrees or accolades. This conversation sheds light on how perceptions can skew decision-making and how understanding the real driving factors behind client choices can change the game for law firms. By debunking these myths, we aim to steer attorneys toward smarter marketing strategies that actually resonate with potential clients, paving the way for better engagement and business growth.

Takeaways:

• Understanding marketing myths can help lawyers prioritize their efforts effectively and avoid missing opportunities.
• Most clients do not choose lawyers solely based on credentials; responsiveness and reviews are far more important.
• Over 70% of legal consumers will contact the first law firm they find in search results.
• Clients often do not trust five-star reviews; a mix of ratings can enhance credibility.
• Video content can significantly boost conversions, making it essential for law firms to engage audiences.
• Referrals are not the most reliable source of clients; a strong online presence is increasingly crucial.

Companies mentioned in this episode:

• Hemmat Law Group
• LegalRev
• Super Lawyers
• Mockingbird Marketing
• Google
• Avvo
• Scorpion Marketing
• Thomson Reuters

We dive into the world of Hemmat Law, a family law firm based in Seattle, Washington, that has experienced explosive growth, now boasting a team of 30 after starting with just two. The main takeaway here is that there's no secret sauce to their success; it’s all about hard work and a clear vision. John shares his journey from a part-time legal assistant to COO, emphasizing that their approach isn't about being extraordinary but rather about being effective and efficient. We also chat about the importance of a solid website and how it plays a crucial role in client perception and engagement. So, if you’re looking to understand what drives a law firm's growth and how to create a winning culture, this episode’s got the goods.

Takeaways:

• Hemmat Law is a family law firm based in Seattle, and it grew rapidly over the years.
• The firm emphasizes its ability to respond quickly to clients, which is crucial in family law cases.
• Hiring the right people is key to the firm's culture and success, as they prioritize team dynamics.
• The team at Hemmat Law focuses on solving problems and improving clients' futures rather than just arguing about the past.
• They believe in investing in a strong online presence, as their website is crucial for attracting clients.
• The goal of Hemmat Law is to expand and open offices in every state, serving more clients effectively.

Links referenced in this episode:

• legalrev
• hemmatlaw

Companies mentioned in this episode:

• Hemmat Law
• Legal Rev
• Clio