KNOW THYSELF. Today, we have the second part of the excellent conversation on First Alcibiades with Dcn. Garlick, Alec Bianco, and Athenian Stranger. The conversation starts at 124(b)!

First Alcibiades is one of the BEST PLACES you could start with Plato.

Check out thegreatbookspodcast.com for our reading schedule and more!

Check out our WRITTEN GUIDE to First Alcibiades.

From the guide:

14. What does Socrates teach Alcibiades about the body (129b)?

Plato teaches that the body is subordinate to the soul, viewing it as a possession rather than the essence of man. If one is to “know thyself” then one must know what the “self” is. Dcn. Garlick contrasts this with the Christian tradition’s composite view of man as body and soul, influenced by Aristotle and Aquinas, yet argues Plato’s stance merits seriously consideration. Dcn. Garlick argues that Plato seems to intuit the Christian teaching of man in his glorified state. For example, in the Christian tradition, there is never a time you are just a body—but there will be a time you are just a soul (after death and before the general resurrection). Moreover, even after you are united with your body for all eternity in heaven, the body, in Catholic thought, does not mediate the glory of God to the soul; rather, the soul receives God directly—not only does glorified man not use a body to know God but his body would be a hinderance, as he would then hold in his soul his thought of God and not God himself. In contrast, Aristotle seems right that our knowledge in this life comes through our senses, but this is not true in heaven—the latter is much more Platonic.

As such, though Plato does not see man as essentially soul and body, his philosophical insights into who man is and why he is a soul should be taken seriously by any Christian who wants to understand his or her own tradition better. Alec stresses that Socrates downplaying the body here also has a pedagogical purpose in humbling Alcibiades’ pride, which is very much rooted in his body and appearance. Athenian Stranger comments that First Alcibiades is the first discovering of “the self,” the soul; and, moreover, that an antecedent to this discovery is seen in Odysseus speaking to his own thumos in the Odyssey. Moreover, Athenian Stranger offers the trenchant observation that while a person may never be a body without a soul, that is how many people live—a life dedicated to the lower appetites, the pleasure of the body.

15.      What is the mirror of the soul (132d)?

The eyes of lover are a mirror for the soul. The idea that we must look into the eyes of one who loves us to see ourselves is presented by Socrates as a profound method for self-knowledge. Dcn. Garlick explains: “if the body is going to know itself, what do you do? Well, I look into a mirror… clearly what we need then is a mirror to our soul… the first… mirror of the soul is the eyes of the lover, the one who loves you.” As Dcn. Garlick suggests, the dynamic goes beyond that of student-teacher and extends to other relations, like husband-wife and parent-child. Another profound aspect of this Platonic teacher is that it makes the pursuit of virtue, wisdom, and the good life a communal one. It is a stark contrast from Descartes’ solitary introspection. We are social creatures—even in our pursuit of wisdom and ultimately of the divine.

Athenian Stranger comments on the role of eros in philosophy and how it works on two planes: the eros between lovers, and the eros between the philosopher and wisdom. On the eyes of the lover as a mirror, Athenian Stranger shares a passage from the poetry of A.E. Houseman that echoes this Platonic sentiment: “look not in my eyes for fear they mirror true the sight I see. And there you find your face to clear and love it and be lost like me.” Dcn. Garlick holds that the lessons in First Alcibiades help comment on Diotima’s ladder of love in the Symposium, especially in how the body of the beloved can help stir self-reflection in the lover.

Find more on our Patreon page!