Today on Ascend: The Great Books Podcast, we are joined by Dcn. Garlick, Dr. Frank Grabowski, Thomas Lackey, and Dr. Joey Spencer to discuss the first part of Plato’s Euthyphro—a dialogue on piety.
Dr. Spencer is the diocesan Archivist for the Diocese of Tulsa, a tutor in Theology, and an expert in the theology of angels and demons.
We discuss the context of the dialogue and move into conversations on piety as a political problem, the role of imitating the divine in Greek religion, an introduction to Plato’s Ideas and its reception into Christianity, and even a brief aside on how angels understand Plato’s Ideas.
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From the guide:
Why should you read the Euthyphro?
The Euthyphro is fundamentally “a dialogue about piety,” as Dcn. Harrison Garlick describes it, serving as an exploration of what piety truly means through a conversation between Socrates and Euthyphro. Dr. Frank Grabowski emphasizes its value as “a wonderful introduction to Platonic philosophy, Platonic literature,” highlighting how it features Socrates as the central figure and showcases “the Socratic method” in a clear and engaging way. Moments of “Socratic irony” are also evident, adding depth to understanding Socrates' approach, while the dialogue introduces Plato's search for the Ideas.
The dialogue is short and more straightforward, which makes it more ideal for first time readers than say the Republic or the Symposium. Its accessibility lies in its simplicity and a layered narrative, allowing readers to engage at their own intellectual level—focusing initially on key dilemmas but discovering more upon rereading—as Dcn. Harrison Garlick notes that “like most of Plato's narratives, the dialogues... bring layers... you can kind of grow with the text." For many, it's the first Platonic work encountered, often bundled with the Apology, Crito, and Phaedo as depictions of Socrates' last days.
What is the historical context for the Euthyphro?
The dramatic date of the Euthyphro is right before Socrates’ trial and execution in 399 BC. The composition date is estimated at 380 BC, but all composition dates should be accepted lightly. The dialogue takes place outside of the King Archon's court, a remnant of Athens' monarchical past, where a judge adjudicates on religious matters. Plato offers a conversation about piety, within its political context, right before his master is tried and condemned for his impiety. As moderns, we do not see piety as a political virtue, but for the Greeks, piety a virtue of cohesion—it bound together the family, the polis, and the gods into one cosmic whole. It is this three-tiered piety that animated the Iliad, Aeschylus’ Oresteia, and Sophocles’ Antigone. King Archon’s court is significant, because it underscores piety as a “political problem.” Impiety can destabilize the polis. Dr. Spencer suggests that Euthyphro sees Socrates as “being out of place,” which can be read as a euphemism for impiety or religious pollution, i.e., Socrates is the pollution of Athens. The question, however, is what is piety?
What is the first definition of piety and why does it fail Socrates’ question?
Euthyphro first defines piety as “to do what I am doing now, to prosecute the wrongdoer, be it about murder or temple robbery or anything else, whether the wrongdoer is your father or your mother or anyone else, not to prosecute is impious” (5d). He cites his prosecution of his father for a servant’s negligent death as an example, claiming it aligns with divine justice. This fails Socrates’ question because, as Dcn. Harrison Garlick notes, “He's been asked for a definition, and he gives an answer that is categorically wrong. It's not even the right type of answer. He says, well, piety is what I am doing.” Socrates seeks the universal essence or form of piety, not a specific instance. At 6D, Socrates critiques this, stating Euthyphro provided an example, not the idea of piety that defines all pious acts, rendering the definition inadequate for identifying piety’s essential nature across contexts.
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