Claire speaks to Barkandji woman, researcher, storyteller and writer Zena Cumpston about the new exhibition Emu Sky at the University of Melbourne, which shines a light on knowledge systems informed by careful observation and scientific methodologies and understanding that have been a fundamental part of the how Aboriginal peoples thrive and shaped this continent continuously for over 65 000 years and counting (see https://emusky.culturalcommons.edu.au); and Stu talks about what happens in hypnagogia and hypnopompia, the states of falling asleep and waking up, when people can experience dreamlike hallucinations.