Fixing Faxes

September has been exceptionally busy and we need a week to catch our breaths. See you next week!

Show Notes

To fundraise or not, that is the question in this episode. Angela walks through the decision making process around whether Clinnect should go after institutional money or to bootstrap. Listen to find out what she decided.

Find Us Online

Angela Hapke - @angelahapke - https://www.clinnect.ca

Jonathan Bowers - @thejonotron - https://www.twostoryrobot.com

Credits

Produced by Jonathan Bowers and Angela Hapke

Music by Andrew Codeman (CC BY 3.0)

Transcript

[00:00:00]Angela:  it's a cute chair. Not a ergonomic chair.

[00:00:04] Jonathan: Oh, ergonomics. I, so I've come to the conclusion that money should not be spared on shoes, mattresses and chairs.

[00:00:18] Angela: I'm with you on shoes and mattresses... chairs, I'm not sold.

[00:00:26]Jonathan:  we have, their, their retail is like $1,200. The chairs at the office. Yeah. They don't, I don't get them for retail. I

[00:00:35] Angela: I would

[00:00:37] Jonathan: know, but still they're like 400 bucks, $450 for the chairs.

[00:00:41] Angela: expensive.

[00:00:43] Jonathan: They're pretty pricey, but they are there. They're very, very comfortable.

[00:00:47]I needed something where the, The, the arms could move up and down. Cause I like that that's important to me. And then it's just like a proper arrogance and you can pick and choose the color.

[00:00:57] So I've got orange back

[00:00:59] Angela: Oh, and a blue bottom

[00:01:01] Jonathan: I believe seat and it works pretty good. And then, and then I have an in, at a furniture supply company and she said, no, don't those ones are good, but these ones are way better. And the

[00:01:11] Angela: like $20 more.

[00:01:13] Jonathan: Yeah, her price was a little bit more. And now we've got all sorts of colours.

[00:01:15] So Paige's is yellow and gray and mine is red and gray. Yeah.

[00:01:20] Angela: Okay, you guys

[00:01:22] Jonathan: I like, I just, it here's a pet peeve of mine, corporate gear that is all black, like hoodies, all black hoodies, like, and then just, here's the standard chair. It's gotta be black. Why can't people have a little bit of expression. So we pick the chairs that are, uh, uh, uh, let us pick the fabric,

[00:01:44]Angela: That's cool.

Introduction

[00:01:44] You're listening to Fixing Faxes a podcast on the journey of building a digital health startup with your host myself, Angela Hapke.

[00:01:54] Jonathan: And I'm Jonathan Bowers and I've started Zach in daycare. Yeah.

[00:02:03] Angela: How are you feeling? How's Julie feeling?

[00:02:06] Jonathan: Uh, it's pretty scary. We were just doing transition. So every, every day, this week I'm going with him for an hour and being with

[00:02:15] Angela: Yep.

[00:02:16] Jonathan: week, just gets gradually, uh, longer. And I'm, I'm not

[00:02:20] Angela: And then you

[00:02:21] Jonathan: And then we start on the, the first, uh, that, uh, the eighth or whatever that first day in September is.

[00:02:28] Oh, it's scary. It's scary. And, and then, then yesterday

[00:02:37] we get a call. Okay. So one of the other, uh, families, has to self isolate. This may have been in contact with COVID and I was like, okay, well, this is the new reality, I

[00:02:47] Angela: This is your new reality. This is a hard moment in life in an especially hard time. Oh,

[00:02:55]Jonathan: He's doing quite well. He, we went the first day. He cried when we went in there. So one of the, one of the strange things that we've noticed about the pandemic and our, trying to follow the rules, so we don't go anywhere, but like, we don't go into buildings, we don't go places and we don't take Zach

[00:03:13] Angela: of course. Yeah.

[00:03:15] Jonathan: And so I can't remember where we went once and he was really afraid to go inside a door. He, he looked at this new space and he didn't want to go inside. And we thought, Oh, this is, this is cause he's deconditioned to going places. And then kind of the same thing at, at

[00:03:29] Angela: Oh, sugar.

[00:03:31] Jonathan: he was. Um, he was okay.

[00:03:34] Kind of going in, but he didn't want to be inside the room and it was a little bit overwhelming and he cried a bit and, uh, he, he calmed down fairly quickly. Um, and then he cried again when one of the when, one of the girls that was there, kind of ran ran at him. He didn't like that very much. but he got used to it and yesterday we just spent the hour or outside

[00:03:53] Angela: Yeah. Lovely.

[00:03:54] Jonathan: that was, that was really fun. Um, yeah, I think, I think he's going to be okay. He's going to be okay. I know he's going to be, yeah. Okay. Um, but it's, it's hard.

[00:04:04] Angela: It was about, um, two years ago, right around now is when we drop, started dropping off Nora for the first time. The first time that the actual drop-off happened , I wanted to be the one that did it, I'm going to drop off the girls.

[00:04:22]and then I just sat out in my car and cried. Both times, like I was like, so adamant that I was going to be the one that did it. And then I sat out in my car and cried and cried and cried and then phoned Brad both times like, Oh,

[00:04:39] Jonathan: it's hard. So I've been taking him because, um, cause I worked from home and I'm like, it's just. You know, five minute drive away. So it makes sense for me to be dropping him off and picking him up. And Julie works kind of across town, um, in our minds, she had planned on being the one to take them through transition

[00:04:56] Angela: Of course. Yeah.

[00:04:57] Jonathan: but they said like, no, it needs to be one parent for the whole, the whole two weeks. And so we decided it makes the most sense for me to get familiar with it because I'm going to be do to dropping things off. So it was, yeah, it was really hard.

[00:05:10] Cause you know, she was kind of geared up to

[00:05:13] Angela: she was ready. She was

[00:05:14] Jonathan: to go and do it and now she doesn't get to and I'm, I'm the one doing it. So, um,

[00:05:19]Angela: it's

[00:05:19] okay. If you sit in your car and cry after,

[00:05:23] Jonathan: I, yeah, I I'm, I am a more emotional about this than I expected to be

[00:05:29] Angela: and it slaps you in the side of the face and you don't expect it and you're just like what?

[00:05:33]And good for you for taking time off right now. I think for too often, we don't take time off in these. ...

Show Notes

After taking a few weeks off of recording Jonathan and Angela discuss everything from Star Wars to passwords to what keeps Angela up at night. There are some bloopers to keep it real and difficult conversations about balancing the users wants with the integrity of system. Angela and Jonathan deep dive into conversation to talk through a difficult product feature decision. In this episode listeners get a peek into real conversations behind the scenes of building a digital health product.

Password hygiene is a topic that we discuss a lot in this episode, there are some great articles if listeners wanted to dive into that information. Here are some articles:

Cisco Mag

F-Secure Blog

Password managers are a great way to use unique passwords as Jonathan mentions in this episode. Examples of password managers are 1Password and LastPass.

Find Us Online

Angela Hapke - @angelahapke - https://www.clinnect.ca

Jonathan Bowers - @thejonotron - https://www.twostoryrobot.com

Credits

Produced by Jonathan Bowers and Angela Hapke

Music by Andrew Codeman (CC BY 3.0)

Transcript

[00:00:00] Jonathan: oh yeah, we got change to not Thursday.

[00:00:03] Angela: It's like perfect timing.

[00:00:06] Jonathan: changed the lawnmower now it's a different kind of lawnmower.

[00:00:08] Angela: louder.

[00:00:11]Jonathan: Uh, hi, I'm Jonathan Bowers is wait, I'm doing the intro.

[00:00:17] Angela: Oh, no. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay.

[00:00:20]Intro

Jonathan: Hi, you're listening to fixing faxes. And I'm your host Jonathan Bowers

[00:00:26] Angela: and I'm Angela Hapke. And so I haven't watched any of the Star Wars movies.

[00:00:37] Jonathan: at all?

[00:00:39] Angela: Ever at all. So I've watched bits. Like you, you always see clips of them or maybe bits and pieces, but I've never seen a full Star Wars movie.

[00:00:50] Jonathan: At all? And you are, you are, you are a member of society?

[00:00:56] Angela: Okay!

[00:01:01] Jonathan: Did, how does, how did you manage to avoid watching any Star Wars

[00:01:05] Angela: I'm not even sure. To be honest. I, I I'm unsure of how this has all came about. And I'm one of those people that don't want to jump in in the middle. So I always felt like I had to watch the previous ones before I could watch the new ones. And because of that, I've just never put in the effort.

[00:01:23] Jonathan: It is a lot. It's a,

[00:01:24] Angela: It's and it's an effort,

[00:01:26] Jonathan: it's a saga.

[00:01:28] Angela: I've started watching the Mandalorian.

[00:01:31] Jonathan: Oh, good for you. Do you like it?

[00:01:34] Angela: I really like it.

[00:01:36] Jonathan: It's really good.

[00:01:37] Angela: is, only, I'm only on episode three, I think three or four. And, um, I really like it.

[00:01:47] Jonathan: Why do you like it?

[00:01:49] Angela: Oh my goodness. Well, it was. I don't know. I like it. It feels like an old, like, it feels like a Western,

[00:01:58] Jonathan: It is, it is a

[00:01:59] Angela: right yet to set in some time. And, um, I don't know. There's something charming about

[00:02:13] wait, are you a big fan

[00:02:16] Jonathan: I'm a big fan.

[00:02:17] Angela: or a big fan? Okay.

[00:02:19] Jonathan: I mean, I wouldn't say I'm a big fan. I would say.

[00:02:22] I'm a pretty big fan. Yeah. I really like, I like star Wars. I like, uh, I've played some of the video games. Um, I have a board game, this like cool X-Wing game. That's that's quite fun. I bought just, just before COVID and now I have no one to play with. Um, Zach's too little and it's not Julie's kind of game.

[00:02:35] Okay. Um, yeah, I'm a fan.

[00:02:38] Angela: So I find fans always have an order that they suggest that other people watch the movies in.

[00:02:47]Jonathan: I, I, my belief is to watch it and it's how I think I want to watch it with Zach when he's old enough is, uh, four or five, six. one two, three,

[00:02:57]Rogue One, uh, then four, five, six, again. Yeah, that's seven, eight, nine. Then you can go back and watch Solo and whatever the other one was.

[00:03:08] Angela: Okay. So I think I'll just watch them in release date order.

[00:03:13] I think I might watch it with Alex. I think she's old enough to watch all of those.

[00:03:18] Yeah.

[00:03:19] Jonathan: You never, you never not old enough. Yeah. Yep, two.

[00:03:25]Password Resets

[00:03:25] Angela: But that's uh, what are we going to talk about

[00:03:29] Jonathan: I have no idea. Honestly, I have no clue. Um, I would like to get to some community stuff at some point and some interviews or some guests, but, um, we can just talk about like, what's going on in product land. Uh, we can talk about password resets.

[00:03:47] Angela: Password resets.

[00:03:50]Jonathan: so , uh, it was hard to read your emotions in that meeting just now that we had, when we were talking about password resets. so I wasn't sure if you were upset, if you were disappointed, um, in like the way that product has been built, if you were disappointed in users,

[00:04:03] Angela: God, you're going down a rabbit hole, Jonathan.

[00:04:05] Jonathan: Yeah, no, it's just, it was very difficult to read you to read you on the video call. Like w there was very little, uh, body language to go off of. Um, and I was, I was watching, like, I flipped to, like, I often just flip to like see everyone mode so that I can, like, I just find that better.

[00:04:20] Angela: Oh, I like the gallery view better on

[00:04:21] Jonathan: yeah. Gallery view. Thank you. And, uh, yeah, you just, you were just seemed like maybe something was going on. I thought I'd check in.

[00:04:30] Angela: this is so funny. my nonverbal can be quite loud sometimes.

[00:04:34] Jonathan: Sometimes.

[00:04:35] Angela: Yup. And I think when it's not, people tend to be like, What's up. What's going on,

[00:04:43] Jonathan: The silence is just as

[00:04:45] Angela: Okay. No, no. I think for me what i...

Show Notes

We've deliberately chosen to design privacy into Clinnect. This means using cryptography to ensure that only the intended recipient is able to view patient data. In fact, as builders of the software, we can't even see the patient data.

For the curious, Chris suggests these articles to better understand cryptography:

• Crypto101 is a great book for learning cryptography basics. It’s very long but thorough and free: https://www.crypto101.io/
• The API we use to do this securely in the browser is the WebCrypto API: https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/Web_Crypto_API
• Two of the models we based our cryptography on were the Firefox sync model and the Lastpass model. Breakdown on those here: https://hacks.mozilla.org/2018/11/firefox-sync-privacy/ & https://enterprise.lastpass.com/wp-content/uploads/LastPass-Technical-Whitepaper-3.pdf

We highly recommend using a password manager like Last Pass to keep yourself safer on the internet. Many are free, including Last Pass.

Fact Check

The LifeLabs hack was one of the largest data breaches in Canadian history. An estimated 15 million Canadians were affected.

Find Us Online

Angela Hapke - @angelahapke - https://www.clinnect.ca

Jonathan Bowers - @thejonotron - https://www.twostoryrobot.com

Chris Foster - @chrisfosterelli - https://fosterelli.co/

Credits

Produced by Jonathan Bowers and Angela Hapke

Music by Andrew Codeman (CC BY 3.0)

Transcript

Jonathan:  Check this out, Chris. So we've got these new pop filters. This is it. Without the pop filter, Peter Piper picked a Peck of pickled peppers.

[00:00:09] And with the pop filter, Peter Piper picked a Peck of pickled peppers

[00:00:15] Chris: So much better.

[00:00:16] Angela: Isn't

[00:00:17] Jonathan: then better.

[00:00:17] Chris: I feel a little bit like the black sheep, because I am I'm that person who joins the podcasts and does not have a high quality bike. And I know as a listener, whenever I hear that, I'm like, Ugggg!

[00:00:30] Angela: Do you? Because I'm more like, Oh, thank God. Not everybody has everything in their house.

[00:00:38] Chris: I usually just skip podcasts that, that are guests like me.

[00:00:45]Introduction

[00:00:45]

[00:00:45] Jonathan:  Hi, I'm Jonathan Bowers

[00:00:49]Angela: and I'm Angela Hapke. And I went camping for the first time with my family. Last weekend, we bought a

[00:00:57] new tent trailer

[00:00:58] Jonathan: the first time ever.

[00:01:00] Angela: with all four of us. Yup.

[00:01:02] Jonathan: Oh, wow.

[00:01:03] Angela: Yeah.

[00:01:04] Jonathan: anyone get any sleep?

[00:01:05]Angela: So we bought it a popup trailer and Brad and Alex were on one side and Nora and I were on the other side. One half of the trailer got sleep. It was not my side.

[00:01:19] Oh, I promptly when I got home ordered memory foam, like two inch memory foam toppers for the mattresses, because both Nora and I were like, Oh, heck no, we're not doing that.

[00:01:34] we joke that our children are like drunk octopuses, trying to search for their keys when they're sleeping at night. Like that's a bit how Nora is. So yeah, it was a lot of like toe kicks to the kidneys and moving around and yeah, it was tough.

[00:01:51] Today we have a guest, uh, the chief technology officer at Two Story Robot. Can you introduce yourself?

[00:01:58]Chris: Hi, my name is Chris Foster. I'm like you said, the chief technology officer at Two Story Robot. I have been building web applications for about a decade now. Um, and before that I was into computer security, pretty heavily. I have a degree in computer science with a specialization in software engineering, as well as a graduate degree in computational neuroscience and artificial intelligence.

[00:02:29] Angela: Oh my goodness. A lot of those words didn't make sense to me, but that's

[00:02:36] okay.

[00:02:36] Jonathan: you said, computational neuroscience, that's an obscure term that. So what, what does that mean?

[00:02:41] Chris: yeah. We use machine learning models to better understand how language is processed in the human brain.

[00:02:47]Jonathan: How did you do that?

[00:02:48]Chris: We put some people in a very uncomfortable machine. It's called a EEG machine. So. They put a whole bunch of goop in your hair and sensors. And then we make you sit in a dark room or of what feels like a very long time staring at symbols on a screen, as you learn to map those to English words. Uh, we tried to replicate sort of replicate an experiment that was done with a much, much more expensive machine.

[00:03:12] And then we showed that you don't necessarily need the $1.5 Million machine and said, you can do it. Uh, with something that's more in the range of $60,000. We did it while trying to learn kind of a language that we made up, which was something that was new too.

[00:03:25]Jonathan: That's cool.

[00:03:25] Angela: That is cool.

[00:03:27] Chris: it was a fun project, but yeah, I definitely nothing like graduate studies to also make you feel like you have no idea about computational neuroscience, more questions than answers at the end of it, it often feels like.

[00:03:39]Jonathan: You've expanded your knowledge a bit, but you've also expanded that surface area of things, you know, that you have no idea about. Um, which I like, I like that feeling. I like knowing that there's all this world of things that I don't know, uh, it feels like a better place than not knowing that that stuff exists.

[00:03:55]Um, It's it's something that I talk. So I talk about this with the team every now and again. And I like my goal for our team is not to not to expand the circle of knowledge of things they know. It's to expand the circle of knowledge of things they know they don't know because that stuff you can go and learn.

[00:04:18]you don't need to know all that, all that stuff. You need to know that it exists and that you can go and find it.

[00:04:23] Angela: I think you're right. And I think that's probably a good segue into what we're talking about today. Ah,

[00:04:29] Chris: It is because computer science follows a very similar learning curve. I think.

[00:04:33]Angela: As the...

Show Notes

At the beginning of the episode Jonathan talks about watching Hamilton, which was recently released on Disney+. Here is a link to the streaming service and the filmed version of the original broadway.

This episode delves into the design sprint that Two Story Robot led Clinnect through, we talk about the ups and downs and how valuable it was. Check out the blog post about design sprints and the design sprint we did with Clinnect.

Find Us Online

Angela Hapke - @angelahapke - https://www.clinnect.ca

Jonathan Bowers - @thejonotron - https://www.twostoryrobot.com

Credits

Produced by Jonathan Bowers and Angela Hapke

Music by Andrew Codeman (CC BY 3.0)

Transcript

Jonathan:  Can you do this? I can't do it just a second. I can get it.

[00:00:04] Angela: sounded like a drip.

[00:00:09]Jonathan: Yeah. It's, I'm not very, I'm not very good at.

[00:00:12]Intro

[00:00:12] Hi, I'm Jonathan Bowers.

[00:00:17] Angela: And I'm Angela Hapke and you're listening to Fixing Faxes.

[00:00:21]Jonathan: And I watched Hamilton this

[00:00:24] Angela: was it?

[00:00:26] Jonathan: so good.

[00:00:27] Angela: watched it yet.

[00:00:28] Jonathan: so good. It's it's so we've read a little bit about shaming for people who don't like it. Um, which I think is a little unfair. I mean, I enjoyed it a lot cause I like, I liked the style of music and it's really neat to see that in a musical also, we would never go see Hamilton.

[00:00:49] Like, there's just no opportunity for us to go to Chicago or New York or London,

[00:00:53] Angela: And especially right now.

[00:00:55] Jonathan: Yeah. So it was really cool to watch. We had to watch it over two nights. Um, just cause it's, it's quite long, it's like two hours and 40 minutes. Um, but I didn't know. I didn't know that it was pretty much all rap and R and B and um, yeah, like it was really,

[00:01:09] it was really cool.

[00:01:10] Angela: well, I didn't know that either Brad will love it. I'm

[00:01:14] Jonathan: It's so great. It's I really enjoyed it. It's very fast. It's hard to follow in ways because it's one it's like, it's just very quick. So you gotta, like, you have to be paying attention and it's a lot of American history, which I'm not, I don't, I don't know. I don't have any of the background knowledge for anyways

[00:01:32] um, but it was still, it was, it was really cool. I really, I really enjoyed it.

[00:01:35] Angela: Okay. I'm definitely going to check it out.

[00:01:37]Jonathan:  one of the YouTube videos I watched said that if, if it was paced the same as a, a regular Broadway musical, it would have taken six hours because of how many words they cram into two hours and 40 minutes.

[00:01:51] Yeah. It's very

[00:01:53] Angela: Wow.

[00:01:54] That's very cool.

[00:01:55]We Launched The Podcast

[00:01:55] Jonathan: We launched the podcast too, that has come out. Um, I've listened to it. I've listened to it a bunch of times. Cause I edited it edited. I listened to it a bunch of times because I edited it and then I listened to it when it came out and I've since listened to episode five, which we recorded last week with our new mics.

[00:02:16] And I hate, I hate the first four episodes. I don't like that. Uh, I don't like the way they

[00:02:22] Angela: of course not. Well, of course not,

[00:02:23] Jonathan: but we have four, I think four five star reviews. Yeah. There's well, one from your husband.

[00:02:32] Angela: I was like beyond my husband.

[00:02:34] Jonathan: Yeah, I think there's, I think there's some other ones, because if I look at the average yeah, we've got an average of four stars and then that one, one star review that they didn't leave.

[00:02:45] Yeah. They didn't leave a comment, your husbands and then some other five star reviews. Um, but have you heard any, have you got any, any feedback from people.

[00:02:51] Angela: Um, yeah, so I, I. Put it on my Facebook, like, just like, Hey, we're we're doing this. Wow. I, so heartwarmed by everybody. And people I haven't talked to in years, like sometimes decades that, um, have gone, like have saw the post gone and listened to it and then come back to the post to write me something.

[00:03:19] Jonathan: That's

[00:03:19] Angela: so lovely and

[00:03:22] Jonathan: creeping on your Facebook a little bit. I was a little jealous of how many people were commenting on your, on your post about it. Cause no, one's no, one's commented on mine at all. Uh, that's fine.

[00:03:34] Angela: it is like, honestly, there's a lot of my mom's friends that are going.

[00:03:38] Jonathan: Oh,

[00:03:41] Angela: Yay. Thank you. Friends of mum.

[00:03:44] Jonathan: that's great. Everyone's everyone's dream is for their, uh, for their friend's daughter to become a podcast host. I think

[00:03:52] Angela: Yeah, right.

[00:03:53] Jonathan: it's just a proud, just a moment of pride. That's so great. I love it.

[00:03:57] Angela: It's been really cool. And then like just the engagement factor around that has been really, really fun. Um, so it's, I mean, mostly the people that are listening, um, as of today are really just friends and family.

[00:04:10] Jonathan: Yeah. It's not a lot of, not a huge audience at the

[00:04:13] moment. Um,

[00:04:15] Angela: so, thank you. If you're listening to this and you've made it to episode, whatever this is six

[00:04:20] Jonathan: Episode six, if you're just joining us though now, because he couldn't deal with the poor audio quality. Uh, we get it.

[00:04:30] Angela: I'm glad you rejoined us. Ah, yes. So we we've launched the podcast. We've got some reviews, some listens more, probably more downloads than I thought we would have.

[00:04:43] Jonathan: Um,

[00:04:45] Angela: Or did you, or

[00:04:46] Jonathan: I was kind of hoping for a bit more. We have a, I went in this morning, we have a hundred total downloads across both the team, the teaser, and the first episode, I think there's, uh, like 30 or 40 downloads for episode two. And, um, yes, 60 or 70 downloads for the teaser. Um, but it's, it's interesting.

[00:05:04] The pattern is different. The, the pattern is more ...

Show Notes

In this episode we talk about different grants, contributions, tax incentives, and non-equity financing that there is available in Canada, specifically British Columbia and how it has helped our businesses. Here is a list of the grants/programs/incentives that we discuss and links to find out more information:

NRC-IRAP - Industrial Research Assistance Program

Youth employment grants through IRAP- Youth Employment, Venture for Canada, & New Ventures BC & Innovate BC.

SRED (Scientific Research and Experimental Development) Tax program The company Angela mentions in the episode which specializes in SRED claims is Infinity SRED

There are many contests & competitions to apply for, if you are interested in more information we suggest starting to take a look at organizations that support the type of contest/competition you might be interested in.

Incentives and contributions are great, we have used them along the way when they fit with work we were already undertaking. Just remember, it is better to focus on your product and less on distractions.

Fact Check

Jonathan mentions he is into a new marble league, if you are interested in checking it out it is in fact called Jelle's Marble Runs and can be found on YouTube.

Find Us Online

Angela Hapke - @angelahapke - https://www.clinnect.ca

Jonathan Bowers - @thejonotron - https://www.twostoryrobot.com

Credits

Produced by Jonathan Bowers and Angela Hapke

Music by Andrew Codeman (CC BY 3.0)

Transcript

Jonathan: When you move, when you move the arm, it makes this like sound like, check this out. Like when you hear that, Oh, whoops.

[00:00:10] Angela: Totally.

[00:00:10] Introduction

You are listening to Fixing Faxes, a podcast on the journey of building a digital health startup with your hosts, myself. Angela Hapke

[00:00:22] Jonathan: And I'm Jonathan Bowers and we have been infatuated with Marble League.

[00:00:30] Angela: I don't know what this

[00:00:30]Jonathan: it is the best sports to watch while there is no sports. Although the risk sports now, I actually discovered it last year, but I didn't watch it until, COVID times.

[00:00:38] Cause I didn't think Julie would enjoy it, but she really likes it. So imagine, imagine, imagine the Olympics, but if if the athletes were marbles. Yeah. So they, they like set up these, these courses and they put marbles at the top and the marbles just there's a machine that like releases them at the same time and the marbles go racing down the track.

[00:01:00] Angela: Okay.

[00:01:01]Jonathan:  but, but they have teams, so they have teams that are named.

[00:01:04] So I'm a fan of the O'Rangers. They're the orange team. And Julie likes the Misty maniacs because they look like, or know the minty. minty maniacs. They're minty colored. Cause she likes mint and it is phenomenally exciting to watch and you get very emotionally involved in it.

[00:01:22] If you pick a team it's so much fun. Yeah. And there's like there's drama

[00:01:29] Angela: I'm so confused about like, given, okay. So, Oh, there's so many questions I have. Where do I start? Given the race? Like the track or the course?

[00:01:44] Does a team pick a certain marble.

[00:01:48] Jonathan: Yes. So some of them, some of them are, like there's some, some events that require the whole team. Like there's, um, there's a, a push event. Like it's a strength event and they all raced down and they have to push this thing along the track. And the further it goes the higher your rankings are.

[00:02:03] Um, but then there's ones that are just, Like you're competing with all the other teams. And so there's just one marble and all the marbles have names. Yeah, they do. my favorite team names is team Momo and I don't understand marbles at all, but there's a team called team Momo.

[00:02:16] And one of the, the team captain, his name is Momo. but then there's Mo Momo. There's another marble on team. Momo. It's super fun.

[00:02:25] Angela: so captains are real people?

[00:02:29]Jonathan: No everyone is marbles. they're all marbles. The referees are marbles. There's a whole like stadium of marbles, I that cheer and they hold up a little marble signs

[00:02:36]Angela: And what, sorry, what is it called again?

[00:02:40]Jonathan: It's it's called, Jelle Marble League. I think it's the name of the person who created Jelle's Marble League.

[00:02:51] Angela: I want to say that I'm going to go check this out, but I'm really not sure that I'm going to

[00:02:55] go check this out. Do you think my daughter would think this is funny too?

[00:02:59] Jonathan: I think so. I think if you watched it with her

[00:03:01] Angela: Like there's no bad words in it.

[00:03:03] Jonathan: no, it's

[00:03:04] Angela: Okay.

[00:03:05] Jonathan: Um, You need to pick a team though, like go from the opening ceremonies. There's an opening ceremonies. Pick it. Yeah. There's an opening ceremonies. Pick a team, like decide on just some random team and that's the team you're going to

[00:03:17] Angela: You got to stick with

[00:03:18] Jonathan: It's awesome. Like, there'll be a, there'll be a moment where your team like comes back from the, from the back of the pack and overtakes, and you're going to cheer. I promise you you're going to cheer. So I think, I didn't think Julie would think this was funny or fun or anything, but she really likes it.

[00:03:32] And, uh, we've been watching John Oliver and he he's sponsored the whole season. Yeah. So it's, it's a marble league presented by the, uh, Yeah, John Oliver, and every, every episode, a $5,000 donation gets made to a food bank in the name of one of the marble teams that wins

[00:03:54] Angela: I love it. That's actually quite cute.

[00:03:56]Grants and Goverment Funding

[00:03:56] Jonathan: Yeah. It's super fun. Love to see how we transition out of marbles into something.

[00:04:00] Angela: Oh, Lordy.

[00:04:01] Well, so today's episode might put you to sleep. We're ...

Show Notes

We talk about being a social enterprise, how long the journey can take for start-ups, and Angela reports back on the pricing exercise that she undertook to find the "right" price for Clinnect. Starting out initially as a government funded project, this company had a few roadblocks to overcome in becoming an incorporated for profit business; along with the typical issues to overcome like sustainability, scalability, and revenue.

Healthcare issues are complex and Clinnect had to learn to focus on issues, we delve into the pros and cons of trying to find a niche product to address a narrow, but important, issue.

Find Us Online

Angela Hapke - @angelahapke - https://www.clinnect.ca

Jonathan Bowers - @thejonotron - https://www.twostoryrobot.com

Credits

Produced by Jonathan Bowers and Angela Hapke

Music by Andrew Codeman (CC BY 3.0)

Transcript

Jonathan: Wait, I want to get one of those. Um, I think, do you think in the audio world they use those, those clacker things like in the movies, those, um,

[00:00:07] Angela: It's called the castanet.

[00:00:09] Jonathan: it's called a castanet? You know the word for that?

[00:00:12] Angela: Like the clackers like that.

[00:00:14] Jonathan: No, no, no, no. The thing at the beginning of a movie where they go, you know, act one or scene four, take three.

[00:00:19] And they

[00:00:20] Angela: Oh, I don't know what those are.

[00:00:21] Jonathan: Uh, I think

[00:00:22] Angela: Sorry. I couldn't see you when you were, when you were saying it. And that's

[00:00:27] Jonathan: a castanet are those tiny little symbols on your fingers, or that we should get one of those cat little castanets

[00:00:35] Angela: I have. I have some, because my, um, my daughter uses them for music class.

[00:00:42]Introduction

[00:00:46] Hi, I'm Angela Hapke.

[00:00:47]Jonathan: and I'm Jonathan Bowers and you're listening to Fixing Faxes, building a digital health startup

[00:00:53] Angela: and we just got some new mics.

[00:00:55] Jonathan: New Mics! Uh, This is episode five. We've recorded the first four episodes on our headphones. No, what are these called?

[00:01:05] Angela: headphones

[00:01:06] Jonathan: No, these aren't, these aren't

[00:01:07] headphones.

[00:01:08] Angela: like the standard headphones that you get with your Apple iPhone.

[00:01:12]Jonathan: Right?

[00:01:12]but now we've got these great new, uh, very cheap, the cheapest ones. We could find Audio-Technica 2005USBs as recommended by basically every podcast blog I could find. Um, but they were sold out.

[00:01:27] Angela: Well, and I didn't do any research. You did all the research and you, I just said, tell me which ones to buy.

[00:01:33] Jonathan: Yes, but you found where to buy them because they're sold out everywhere.

[00:01:38] Angela: I know, I know the weird places to buy things.

[00:01:43] Jonathan: So that was helpful because I was starting to panic that we were going to have to buy $300 microphones instead of a hundred dollar microphones.

[00:01:50] Angela: well, the package was $200.

[00:01:53] Jonathan: Yeah. Yeah. Well, it comes with the, it comes with the boom arm and the monitoring headphones. Um, the Princess Lea headphones. They, they hurt my, hurt my ears just a little bit. Cause I like, do you notice

[00:02:07] Angela: The glasses. yeah, they dig into your head.

[00:02:10]Jonathan:  I've been wearing them a lot the

[00:02:12] Angela: Oh, have you,

[00:02:13] Jonathan: doing all my Zoom meetings like this with the microphone.

[00:02:16] Angela: Is everybody commenting on the quality?

[00:02:18] Jonathan: loves it. Uh, Yeah, everyone is saying Wow it sounds so good. And now Chris wants to get a microphone. He's he's got microphone envy.

[00:02:27] Angela: That's definitely a thing in, in, and Zoom COVID days. Microphone and camera envy.

[00:02:35] Jonathan: I, uh, we had a client meeting this morning and, uh, cause you can see the boom and the mic in the video call. And he says, Hey, what's that? I told them about the podcast and he holds up his really expensive microphone and say, well, let's. Let's compare. This is not, that's not

[00:02:51] Angela: You're like, no. How about not?

[00:02:54] Jonathan: he's got one of those pop filters and I think it's like a really cool condenser mic.

[00:02:58] It is just sitting on his desk though. So he doesn't have the arm,

[00:03:02] Angela: see, I don't know. This arm is like I'm that's most of what I love about this.

[00:03:09] Pricing Revisited

Jonathan: Uh, you know, what we need to talk about so speaking of the prices of things, so this being $200 and us thinking about, um, wanting to buy cheap. So this felt like the right amount of money to spend for where we are at in terms of our journey as podcasters. Um, but in the, in, uh, I think episode three,

[00:03:29] Angela: I think it's episode three.

[00:03:30] Jonathan: gave you some homework to go and use the Van Westendorp.

[00:03:35] Pricing meter or price, price, sensitivity,

[00:03:39] Angela: Price sensitivity meter.

[00:03:41]Jonathan: Which is basically four questions that help you understand the pricing of a product. What are the results?

[00:03:48] Angela: Okay. Uh, so, so we made the survey and I put it in linked it in an email, and then I just use my, my personal contact list and sent it out to a bunch of primary care providers and specialists that I know that I would hope that I could kind of ask a personal favor to

[00:04:04] um, I sent it out to about 30 people, uh, nine or 10 of them got back to us. And there was some big trends showing up. So what you, what you have to understand is the four questions really kind of give you an idea of like the absolute basement. I wouldn't buy this because it's, it would be so cheap that it doesn't have any value all the way up to ,this is way too expensive for what I think the product is. So those are two questions and then the other two questions help kind of narrow in the, the, the sweet spot. So, um, just, , like what would you pay that's I, I think they use the word bargain and then what would you pay? And the, they use the word expensive.

[00:04:44]And so what we did is we took all the responses, we plotted them on the sensitivity meter and before I say what the, it came out to be, I think last ...

Show Notes

This episode finally delves into who Jonathan and Angela are, a bit of our backgrounds and how we both took very different paths to get to where we are. We give shout outs to our team, mentors, friends, and family.

We talk in this episode about non-medical fabric masks and we wanted to give a shout out to Sew the Curve Kamloops. We also mention a local company Desert Lily Clothing that made the custom masks for Two Story Robot.

Find Us Online

Angela Hapke - @angelahapke - https://www.clinnect.ca

Jonathan Bowers - @thejonotron - https://www.twostoryrobot.com

Credits

Produced by Jonathan Bowers and Angela Hapke

Music by Andrew Codeman (CC BY 3.0)

Transcript

[00:00:00] Angela: Just buy a mic.

[00:00:00] Jonathan: You're just going to buy a mic anyways.

[00:00:03] Angela: Why not?

[00:00:03] Jonathan: Okay. Well tell me if you do, and then I will also buy the mic and

[00:00:06] Angela: Well, okay. I don't want to make you buy a mic,

[00:00:09] Jonathan: Well, no, no, no. Cause I, I will, um, I kind of want to

[00:00:12] Angela: Let's just buy my mics then

[00:00:15]Intro

[00:00:15] Jonathan: Hi, I'm Jonathan Bowers. I'm the CEO of Two Story Robot and we're helping Angela build a digital health startup. And we had a bunch of masks, custom made masks that I delivered to my team yesterday. Yeah, it was super fun.

[00:00:34] Angela: do people like them.

[00:00:35] Jonathan: Yes. Uh, Lindsey posted a picture of her wearing our branded mask, the branded hat, some chainmail, and a sword to vanquish COVID

[00:00:50]Angela:  that's awesome.

[00:00:52] Jonathan: I'm excited We made a, I think there's like 35 or so. Um, so we're distributing everyone on the team gets one, it's the Olsen

[00:01:01] Angela: The Olsen mask

[00:01:02] Jonathan: got. Uh, I had her use some scrap fabric, whatever scraps she had for

[00:01:07] Angela: well, that one has hello,

[00:01:08] Jonathan: This one is Hello Kitty.

[00:01:10] Angela: That's cute. That's perfect.

[00:01:12] That's super fun.

[00:01:13] Jonathan: Yeah, it's super fun. We're going to sell them, sell the extras, mark them up a whole bunch and give a, give the profits to charity.

[00:01:21] Angela: That's great. Awesome.

[00:01:23] Hi, my name is Angela Hapke and I am the CEO of Central Referral Solutions. The company that has launched Clinnect the digital health product, um, that Two Story Robot is helping us with. And speaking of masks I made masks for. Sew the Curve Kamloops, which is a grassroots organization that made over 10,000 masks for, our geographic area around Kamloops and, um, not just mass, they made scrub caps and, um, bags.

[00:01:58] So like healthcare workers could put their, their scrubs in their clothes, in a bag that had like a drawstring. So they could just dump them in the washer when they got home and things like that. But it was really, really cool in the beginning of COVID to be part of something that was, um, that was really.

[00:02:14] Making an impact like that. So I think I ended up making about, I want to say about 40 scrub caps and about 25 masks.

[00:02:26] Jonathan: Yeah, the, uh, we hired a business out of the Sew the Curve to make our masks, somebody new who is just starting a business for the first time. Um, and she, you know, she wanted a Desert Lily Clothing.

[00:02:39]She is going to make children's clothing, but then became really active on the Sew The Curve. And so we reached out to her and she was super excited about it. So yeah. Yeah, that's fine.

[00:02:49] Angela: Hence the Hello Kitty uh, scrap fabric

[00:02:51]yup. There we go. Somebody we can talk about today.

[00:02:57]Getting to Know Each Other

[00:02:57] Jonathan: Well, I wanted to, I wanted to get to know Angela. I already know Angela.

[00:03:03] Angela: But do we like, so this is an interesting part is so we've known each other for a few years now. and I feel like, um, we know each other from like the last five years of our career, but I don't actually know the Jonathan pre.

[00:03:20] Pre age 30 or something like that.

[00:03:23] Jonathan: How old do you think I am?

[00:03:24] Angela: I know exactly how old you are, because you're the same age as me.

[00:03:27] Jonathan: Oh, am I?

[00:03:28] Angela: Well, you're a few months older

[00:03:30] Jonathan: Oh, okay. When's your birthday? What? In December. Oh, so you haven't,

[00:03:35] Angela: I

[00:03:36] Jonathan: you haven't

[00:03:36] Angela: the big four. Oh

[00:03:38] yeah, but I mean, you turned 40 during COVID.

[00:03:43] Jonathan: Yeah, it was, uh, not the birthday I wanted, but it was still, it was still enjoyable. It was still fun.

[00:03:49]Angela: Brad and I will be married 10 years. This December, I will turn 40 this December Yeah, we had plans to go to France. I really lovely trip. And none of that's going to happen now. So no I'm adjusting expectations as is everyone right now with life.

[00:04:11] So, yeah. So, so how do we segue into the, who are we?

[00:04:17] Jonathan: talk about it. Who, who, who is Angela?

[00:04:20] Angela: how far do you want me to go back?

[00:04:21]Jonathan: well, I was thinking about this. We met, um, when I was working at FreshGrade. Um, I was, one of the first employees and I can't remember how big the team was at that point, but you, knew one of the founders, Steve, Steve Wandler, or you knew Steve from some other thing and you were doing some kind of project through your MBA.

[00:04:44] And I remember that, but I don't remember much about it. I just remember that. That's what you were there doing. And then, I dunno, you went and finished the MBA. I went and did some stuff. And then, and then you were back in Kamloops and you came, I think you came through, um, the innovation center. And I think that's how we got reintroduced.

[00:05:04] Angela: I think that was I actually, I think it was Steve again. So Clinnect is, is a long journey. Forget about overnight successes. Long journey has been about three years in the making. We started off as a government project. Um, and we thought we kind of landed on something really interesting.

[00:05:24] And I wondered if we couldn't make it some kind...

Show Notes

Pricing a new product is hard to do and requires that you step outside your comfort zone. We talk about freemium and why we don't want to build a free product. How we might figure out a good price. And the 4 Ps of marketing.

Warning. We say "pee" and "poop".

Fact Check

We discuss the"P's of Marketing", despite both having an MBA we cannot remember which they are. The term we are discussing is Marketing Mix, which is the 4 P's of marketing: Product, Price, Place, and Promotion. Developed by E. Jerome McCarthy in the 1960's, and has been a staple of any University Marketing class.

The term "Freemium" is used a lot in this episode, a good introductory read on the topic done by the Harvard Business Review. It is a concept introduced in the 1980's but gained popularity around 2010. Clinnect briefly considered this route with the product until we realized the product was too valuable with the minimum feature set to be a free product.

In this episode we delve into definitions around patient referral intakes, such as central intake vs pooled referrals vs directories, etc. The Canadian Medical Association uses a policy statement to define the use, however it does not take into account the use of algorithms, which Clinnect has now introduced this into landscape.

The pricing strategy exercise that we discuss at the end is the Van Westendorp Pricing Model. The exercise includes surveying potential customers to see where the "sweet spot" for pricing is, the questions are worded well to incite the right responses, yet you have the flexibility to tailor to your product. The final results are in as of the time this episode airs, but you will have to wait a couple episodes to find out!

Find Us Online

Angela Hapke - @angelahapke - https://www.clinnect.ca

Jonathan Bowers - @thejonotron - https://www.twostoryrobot.com

Credits

Produced by Jonathan Bowers and Angela Hapke

Music by Andrew Codeman (CC BY 3.0)

Transcript

[00:00:00] Jonathan: So I'm wearing, um, Hokas. I don't know if you're familiar with the brand of shoe.

[00:00:05] Angela: Nope, but they look very nice Jonathan.

[00:00:07] Jonathan: They have, they have these really thick, thick sole, I just don't wear them running very much. So they're just kind of sitting around and I thought, Oh, these shoes are good. Like they're good shoes.

[00:00:17] Angela: are good podcasting shoes.

[00:00:18] Jonathan: Yeah. So they're my podcasting shoes, I put them on before we record a podcast in case I need to stand. Hi, my name is Jonathan Bowers. I am the CEO of Two Story Robot, a software development company, helping Angela and CRS built a product. And my son just pooped in a potty for the first time.

[00:00:37] Angela: That's amazing.

[00:00:40] Jonathan: willingly. Well, so not willingly.

[00:00:43] He. Just before bath uh bath time is like my routine with him. So we go in the tub and he's bathing and he's kind of squatting in the tub playing around and he's pooped in the tub, three or four times. And I try not to make a big deal out of it, but when I do, I often like just kind of yell and it scares them a bit. So I tried not to do that when he started to grunt, as he was squatting down in the toilet, like, Oh, okay, let's get out, do a quick, dry off.

[00:01:10] And then we put him, put him on the potty and he sits there and plays with his toes and plays with the handle and and out comes, a poop.

[00:01:17] Angela: And Jonathan, how old is Zack?

[00:01:19] Jonathan: He's 17 months old now.

[00:01:22]it's pretty fun.

[00:01:22] Angela: so happy for you.

[00:01:27] I am.

[00:01:27]Hi, I'm Angela Hapke and I am the CEO of Central Referral Solutions. The company that has launched Clinnect and I cleaned poop out of my almost three year olds pants, five times in the last few days.

[00:01:46] Jonathan: Oh my goodness. Is this a regression? Is this some kind of anxiety induced thing because of some change in school or is it

[00:01:55] Angela: yeah, you don't, you don't know my daughter is pure, "I don't give an F. I am way too busy. Digging for worms and playing and in the sandbox to worry about the poop I've just had in my pants. " But then she's upset with herself afterwards. So we do have progress. The shame is there. Oh yeah. So we just want her to not feel that and just go poo on the potty

[00:02:31] Jonathan: So tell me, tell me, uh, how can I, how can I segue

[00:02:36] Angela: are we segueing from peeing

[00:02:38] Jonathan: and pooing pants?

[00:02:40] Into pricing. the three P's pee, poo, and pricing.

[00:02:45] Angela: I'm very sure I learned that in my MBA.

[00:02:47]Jonathan:  I think it's product, um, product pricing and position no, position pricing and p-p-p-p . So tell me about pricing. So you originally originally Clinnect, maybe not originally, but one of the ideas was that Clinnect was going to, there was going to be some free aspect of, of Clinnect

[00:03:09]Pricing

[00:03:09] Angela: Definitely! We were about, um, just over a year ago. We were discussing this. And at that time, the whole freemium idea was, um, I don't want to say it was hot because it was a little bit old by then, but it was definitely something that was well understood and well used in the, in the, in the tech industry was the whole freemium idea.

[00:03:35] So we wanted to take that idea and shifted over to, um, healthcare software, which isn't really done except in more like the, the consumer, um, models.

[00:03:46]Then I had a few conversations with a few people about this. And while, you know, we had floated it by the, the users, the future potential users and they were all for it. but I had like a conversation with a, a bit of a mentor of mine and he had very strong opinions about freemium products and, um, he kind of just said to me, Angela, Why would you ever give anything away for free?

[00:04:13] Like, could you at least just charge 30 bucks a month for it? Why would you ever just give it away for free? I just think that model's so ridiculous. I kind of hit me a little hard because I was like, wow. Geez, everybody's doing it. That's what I thought we would do too. But it got me thinking in and about the users that I, that I have. And, um, it did make a lot of sense. I was like, yeah, honestly, to my customers, what is 20 bucks a month to them? You know, it's a few Starbucks coffees.

[00:04:46] Jonathan: Well, and I think, I think also if they're not, if they don't see the value in it enough to give up the 20 bucks. ...

Show Notes

In the intro Jonathan discusses the fall detection used in his Apple watch, if you are interested in learning more about this feature or how to turn it on then check out this link:

https://support.apple.com/en-ca/guide/watch/apd34c409704/watchos

Since recording this episode Angela has actually achieved the 10,000 step mark many times according to her Suunto 3 watch. She is still trying to get evening walks in.

Fact Check

Surprisingly Angela does not spew random statistics this episode, so there was not much to fact check.

Find Us Online

Angela Hapke - @angelahapke - https://www.clinnect.ca

Jonathan Bowers - @thejonotron - https://www.twostoryrobot.com

Credits

Produced by Jonathan Bowers and Angela Hapke

Music by Andrew Codeman (CC BY 3.0)

Transcript

[00:00:00] Angela: This is fun.

[00:00:03] Jonathan: That's how you that's. I think that's, um, like journalist broadcaster thing. Like you just put your face right in the mic and just click your tongue.

[00:00:14] Angela: You have no idea.

[00:00:16]Jonathan: I honestly have no idea.

[00:00:17] Angela: Yeah, I know. You can tell

[00:00:20]Introduction

[00:00:20]Jonathan: Hi, I'm Jonathan Bowers. I am a software developer and uh, Oh, I, uh, I fell down the stairs.

[00:00:28]I had Zach in my hand and it scared me

[00:00:30] Angela: He's okay?

[00:00:31] Jonathan: He's okay. Everyone's okay. I have a little bit of rug burn on my, uh, on my elbow, but I'm fine. Just a little bit of a bruised ego. And I don't understand how I've slipped down the stairs. Like I'm pretty cautious, not cautious, but like I don't, I don't fall down the stairs ever.

[00:00:46] Like the first time I've done that.

[00:00:48] Angela: That's why it's called an accident.

[00:00:50] Jonathan: Yeah, I guess. So anyways, I was impressed with the Apple Watch's ability to detect the fall and it suggested that I call 911

[00:00:57] Angela: I love that. why don't we have Apple watches on all our old people?

[00:01:01] Jonathan: I don't know.

[00:01:02] Super cool.

[00:01:03] Angela: That is cool.

[00:01:05]So my name is Angela Hapke, and I am the CEO of Central Referral Solutions and speaking about smartwatches, I got Suunto Watch for Mother's Day and I am yet to hit 10,000 steps a day

[00:01:24]You have to go for walks in the evening. You have to deliberately go and get steps.

[00:01:29] Jonathan, I do. I go for freaking walks in the evening. It just, it adds about like three or 4,000 steps, but I'm just still not getting enough.

[00:01:44]Jonathan:  I had one day when I was legitimately less than 500 steps for the entire day. I think I was sick.

[00:01:53] Angela: I was going to say, were you in bed all day?

[00:01:55] Jonathan: I was in bed all day.

[00:01:56] Angela: Yeah. That's why he was sick.

[00:01:59] Jonathan: I thought, for sure, just casual, like just ambient walking. I would have picked up some extras more than 500 steps, but Nope.

[00:02:08] Angela: that's. That's amazing.

[00:02:11] Jonathan: Ambient walking.

[00:02:12] Angela: Ambient walking.

[00:02:14]Clinnect is launched

[00:02:14] Jonathan: Okay so we've launched Clinnect uh how do you spell how do you spell that how do you spell Clinnect ?

[00:02:21] Angela: C L I nope

[00:02:25] Jonathan: That's right.

[00:02:26] Angela: it is sorry. I'm like my brain somewhere else. And I thought, uh,

[00:02:31] C L I N N E C T

[00:02:35] Jonathan: Clinnect it's like clinic and connect smushed together.

[00:02:39] Angela: You got it.

[00:02:40]We launched it last week.

[00:02:43] Jonathan: Not a full launch, a soft launch.

[00:02:46] Angela: Sure a product like ours, I'm not sure launches largely easily. It's it is more of a, it is more of an iterative launch. So we just, we brought on her first umm users on Friday so many, many years ago, I I've, I've dreamed about this.

[00:03:09] Like I have dreamed about this for many years. I've dreamt about being the CEO of a startup, launching a product. And when I dreamed about this, the images that were in my mind were. We, you know, we would, I would be in an office with a team and there would be high fives that day champagne, and we would be celebrating.

[00:03:40] And I launched on Friday sitting alone in my basement.

[00:03:49] And there was nobody, but we need high five because way too early in the day to drink shopping by myself. So,

[00:04:00] Jonathan: That sounds like that makes me sad.

[00:04:04] Angela: but it's actually, so. It didn't make me sad because at the end of the day is still like, the dream is still there. Like the idea, we still did something incredible and amazing, but I think it's also indicative of many things I've been reflecting on recently. Around this, this dream and what I thought that it looked like 10 years ago and what it actually looks like in reality now is I always thought I would have time to lean into these amazing pieces of the business, uh, and take my time and be thoughtful and meaningful around all these decisions and put effort and just all this additional time.

[00:04:54] Leading up to the launch. I had my kids home 24 seven. There was no additional extra time or energy because I was exhausted to lean into these things. Like I was sure I was going to have this beautiful marketing website up to showcase the product and launch it. And I thought, Oh, I'm going to be so meaningful.

[00:05:20] And the people that I reach out to and talk about this with, and it just, there was, there's just no time. And, and COVID like, talk about a time to launch a product. This is crazy. And so all those things. And so as soon as I let go of that ridiculous dream that I had 10 years ago and went well, that was nice.

[00:05:42] That was cute. That you had that dream and that was a fun thing to focus on and it allowed you to get here. Reality looks very different and that's okay because at the end of the day, we're still doing what we said that we would do. And it's still important.

[00:05:57]What does Clinnect Actually Do?

[00:05:57]Jonathan: What's the thing that we're doing. What does Clinnect do? It's in healthcare, but what is ultimately boil it down to a couple of sentences or a short paragraph? What is Clinnect?

[00:06:12]Angela:  Clinnect was built out of ...