The Unscripted SEO Interview Podcast

Flynn Zaiger on SEO Agency Evolution

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SEO Agency Evolution: From Content Mills to Business Consultants

Guest: Flynn Zaiger, Founder & CEO of Online Optimism
Host: Jeremy Rivera, Unscripted Podcast

Read the full detailed recap blogpost of the interview

Key Takeaways

Bottom Line Up Front: Modern SEO agencies must evolve beyond traditional tactics to become true business consultants who understand conversion funnels, sales processes, and cross-channel marketing strategies to survive the AI disruption.

Guest Background
  • Flynn Zaiger runs Online Optimism, a 13-year-old SEO agency
  • Started solo in New Orleans, now 20 employees with Flynn based in NYC
  • Specializes in healthcare and higher education but maintains diverse client portfolio
  • Built through word-of-mouth and referrals rather than niche specialization
    • Core Discussion Points
    The Conversion-First Approach
    • SEO agencies must examine client conversion processes before focusing on traffic
    • Many agencies skip analyzing what happens after the click
    • Success metrics should tie to business growth, not just rankings or traffic
    • Example: 50% of local service forms never get responses, only 4-5% get same-day replies
      • Content Strategy in the AI Era
      • Traditional "good, engaging content" worked from 2012-2024
      • AI tools have "pilfered" most existing content, making differentiation harder
      • #1 rankings becoming vanity metrics unless tied to actual conversions
      • Focus shifting to multimedia content (video) and unique, unscalable content
        • Link Building Evolution
        • Moving from quantity-focused to quality, niche-relevant link building
        • Treating link building more like digital PR
        • Diversifying to forums, Reddit, and community platforms
        • Authority and trust signals remain paramount (Vatican CBD example)
        • Distance from authority sites still matters significantly
          • The New SEO Landscape
          • SEO agencies forced to become more generalist and flexible
          • Scope of services becoming blurrier as tactics multiply
          • Need for cross-channel thinking: email, social, video, forums
          • In-house teams have advantages due to broader access and integration
            • Platform Diversification Strategy
            • Create content for LinkedIn Pulse, Substack, Medium, SlideShare
            • Build presence on Reddit, forums, and emerging platforms
            • "Create once, distribute forever" across multiple channels
            • Focus on platforms with actual audiences, not just DR scores
              • Actionable Advice
              Primary Recommendation: Invest in Reddit
              • Create brand accounts and subreddits
              • Claim profiles early before competitors
              • Engage authentically in relevant communities
              • Long-term play as Google currently rewards Reddit content
              • Use multiple accounts (personal vs. professional) as allowed by ToS
                • Secondary Strategies
                • Audit your conversion funnel before optimizing for more traffic
                • Understand client sales processes through demos and CRM access
                • Create FAQ content for zero-search-volume questions that AI might answer
                • Build relationships in your industry for natural link opportunities
                • Think like a business consultant, not just an SEO tactician
                  • Industry Insights
                  • AI Overview Impact: LLMs are "drunk" and need guidance, making on-site FAQs more important
                  • Google's Vulnerability: Compared to Sears missing the Amazon opportunity
                  • Agency Challenges: Pricing pressure from AI tools, need for service diversification
                  • Future Outlook: Google optimization may be less relevant in 10-15 years
                    • Notable Quotes

                    "At the end of the day, you need a human to make a decision."

                    "Your client is rarely going to measure you just on organic search traffic. They're going to measure you on are you helping to grow the business."

                    "I think what still works long-term is the unscalable strategy."

                    Connect with Flynn Zaiger:

                    • Company: Online Optimism
                    • Reddit: @online-optimism
                      • ...more
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                      The Unscripted SEO Interview PodcastBy Jeremy Rivera