Foreign Policy ProvCast

In this episode, Rebeccah Heinrichs of the Hudson Institute talks with Mark Melton about the fall of Afghanistan. She describes what went wrong in Afghanistan, the problems of nation-building, whether the "forever war" is over, and how the United States military had been conducting counter-terrorism operations in Afghanistan. They also discuss why Joe Biden's withdrawal was a debacle and problems with the "over the horizon" strategy to stop terrorism now that the US military is gone. Heinrichs also makes the case that the US should not have abandoned Bagram Air Base near Kabul and explains why this has led to tragedy. She analyzes how the US withdrawal from Afghanistan affects America's geopolitical strategy, particularly its competition with China. Finally, she offers some lessons Americans should learn from Afghanistan.

For the July 4th weekend, Eric Patterson and Mark Melton discuss what C.S. Lewis teaches Christians about patriotism and "love of home," particularly in The Four Loves. They review how Lewis served his country in both the First World War and the Second World War, which demonstrates that he writes from experience when he writes about patriotism and sacrifice. And while Lewis argues that the "love of home" is the best type of patriotism, he warns against someone loving his or her country because of its history, as this can lead to a puffed-up vision that is easily debunked unless the study of history is done carefully and seriously. So Patterson and Melton discuss how Christians should understand history by recognizing mankind's sinfulness and God's common grace. Melton also argues that, if Christians' love of home or country is rooted in neighborly love, they should love their neighbors both near and far. This requires understanding local issues and participating in local politics. Patterson adds that this focus on the local community can include volunteering in various organizations. Suggested Readings: "For God and Country, Part 1: Christian Patriotism," by Mark Melton: https://providencemag.com/2019/01/for-god-country-part-1-christian-patriotism/ "For God and Country, Part 2: Not Necessarily the Nation-State," by Mark Melton: https://providencemag.com/2019/01/for-god-country-part-2-not-necessarily-nation-state/ "Immortal Memory: What Scotland's Robert Burns Can Teach Us about Nationalism," by Mark Melton: https://providencemag.com/2019/01/immortal-memory-scotland-robert-burns-nationalism/ "From the Trenches to the Shire and Narnia: Review of Loconte's A Hobbit, a Wardrobe, and a Great War," by Mark Melton: https://providencemag.com/2019/04/trenches-shire-narnia-book-review-joseph-loconte-a-hobbit-a-wardrobe-and-a-great-war-c-s-lewis-j-r-r-tolkien/ "Flawed Historical Narratives about American Figures Color Our Pursuit of Justice," by Grayson Logue: https://providencemag.com/2020/09/flawed-historical-narratives-american-figures-pursuit-justice-1776-commission-1619-project/ A transcript is forthcoming.

Samuel Goldman (PhD, Harvard) talks about his latest book, After Nationalism: Being American in an Age of Division, with Mark Melton, who recently reviewed it in National Review. Even though some on the right have argued that the United States needs to return to a strong common national identity to survive, Goldman argues that America has normally not had this type of cohesion for most of its history. Instead, the Second World War and Cold War created a brief period when creedal nationalism became the dominant vision, but after a couple of decades this vision began to fracture. During the conversation, Goldman explains the history of America's national identities by focusing on three that are present today—covenantal, crucible, and creedal—and why all three failed. He and Melton also cover how times of war allowed the government to coerce Americans into adopting a single cohesive identity. For instance, despite being an American born in Missouri, Reinhold Niebuhr's formal education was fully in German until he began his Master's degree at Yale Divinity School. But after the First World War this type of culture could not endure. (Niebuhr's undergraduate college in Illinois did not print a catalog in English until 1917.) Goldman responds to critics of the book who say America must revive an Anglo-American or Anglo-Protestant vision (a type of covenantal nationalism) to have a future. Others who want to revive a common national identity also say identity politics is one of the greatest threats to America, which Goldman addresses. Many have also argued that the United States needs to teach history better to prevent disunity, including six former education secretaries who signed a Wall Street Journal op-ed in March 2021. Goldman explains why this type of program will fail just as other similar attempts have failed. According to him, understanding history can only tell Americans who they were, not who they are. Instead of promoting a common national identity, Goldman supports increased localism and federalism, which he describes further. Goldman is an associate professor of political science at George Washington University, and Mark Melton is managing editor of Providence. A rough transcript is forthcoming, which will be available here: https://providencemag.com/podcast/foreign-policy-provcast-ep-64-america-after-nationalism-samuel-goldman-podcast/ To purchase After Nationalism, click here: https://www.amazon.com/Nationalism-Radical-Conservatisms-Samuel-Goldman/dp/0812251644 To read Melton's review in National Review, click here: https://www.nationalreview.com/2021/06/book-review-after-nationalism-sympathy-for-nationalists-but-little-hope/ Featured Image: A flag over the Vicksburg Bridge (carrying I-20) and the Old Vicksburg Bridge, which cross the Mississippi River in Mark Melton's hometown. Source: Unsplash.

Mark Melton speaks with Paul D. Miller about his recent book "Just War and Ordered Liberty" (Cambridge University Press, January 2021, available here: https://www.amazon.com/Just-Ordered-Liberty-Paul-Miller-ebook/dp/B08QD19SB8/ref=tmm_kin_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=&sr). Miller explains how just war thinking has shifted over the centuries—from Augustinian, Westphalian, and now Liberal traditions. They also cover how Miller's view of just war would allow for the defense of ordered liberty to serve as a just cause for war, whereas proponents of a Westphalian view of sovereignty would say such a war is wrong. Miller also explains how Liberal ideas about sovereignty compare to the notion of responsibility to protect (R2P), which has its roots in the Augustinian just war tradition. In the book, Miller writes at length about "jus post bellum," or justice after war, so in the podcast he and Melton cover this topic and why this category is helpful, even though some proponents of the just war tradition do not use it. Finally, Miller talks about foreign policy implications of his ideas—particularly on whether Americans would be willing to do what is necessary to secure ordered liberty in another country after the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, what countries must consider if war with North Korea becomes necessary, the problems drones can present for ethicists considering the "Forever War," and what the just war tradition might say about cyberattacks. For further reading be sure to see Miller's articles about Augustinian Liberalism—"Augustinian Liberalism: A Symposium" and "Augustine of Hippo, Christian Democrat" (available here: https://providencemag.com/2019/09/augustinian-liberalism-symposium/ and https://providencemag.com/2019/09/augustine-of-hippo-christian-democrat/). Also, be sure to buy and read his book, which also responds to critics who say this liberal view would lead to imperialism. Listeners can purchase the book here: https://www.amazon.com/Just-Ordered-Liberty-Paul-Miller-ebook/dp/B08QD19SB8/ref=tmm_kin_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=&sr Paul D. Miller is a professor in the practice of international affairs at Georgetown University's School of Foreign Service, a contributing editor of Providence, a research fellow with the Ethics & Religious Liberty Commission, and a senior fellow with the Atlantic Council.

Steven Howard, advocacy director at In Defense of Christians (IDC), speaks with Mark Melton about the 2021 annual report from the US Commission on International Religious Freedom (USCIRF). In particular, they cover what the IDC thinks USCIRF got right and how they missed the mark. Howard also analyzes the religious freedom situation in Turkey, Syria, Iraq, and Egypt. To read the report, click here: https://www.uscirf.gov/sites/default/files/2021-04/2021%20Annual%20Report_0.pdf In Defense of Christians also hosted an event to discuss this report in more detail, which can be found here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q4NLiY8pJok For the podcast episode with Nadine Maenza, commissioner on the US Commission on International Religious Freedom, click here: https://providencemag.com/podcast/ep-55-religious-freedom-middle-east-genocide-yazidis/

Providence executive editor Marc LiVecche spoke with contributing editor and Georgetown professor Paul Miller about President Joe Biden's plans to withdraw all remaining US military personnel from Afghanistan by September 11, 2021. While opposed to the withdrawal itself, Paul has no illusions about the mistakes made in Afghanistan. At the same time, he is cognizant of the goods that were achieved and laments the risks that a US pullout poses to the ability of those goods to endure. He reflects on the human costs of the war, its impact on US foreign policy, and offers a nuanced vision for how American Christians should think about it. This podcast originated as a Zoom conversation and has not been edited. Listeners can watch the video and read the transcript here: https://providencemag.com/video/americas-withdrawal-afghanistan-joe-biden/ Here are some of the resources mentioned in the discussion: "A Christian Declaration on American Foreign Policy" by Paul Miller: https://providencemag.com/2016/09/christian-declaration-american-foreign-policy/​ "Fight to Win: A Lesson from the Great War" Marc LiVecche: https://providencemag.com/2020/11/fight-win-lesson-great-war/

On March 5, 1946—75 years ago—Winston Churchill delivered the "Sinews of Peace" at Westminster College in Fulton, Missouri. The terms "special relationship" to describe US-UK relations and "Iron Curtain" both become household terms after the speech, and some, particularly Russian historians, point to this moment as the official start to the Cold War. At the time, Churchill was serving as leader of the opposition in Parliament after losing the UK general election in 1945. The world was recovering from the Second World War and ready for peace. Many in the United States and elsewhere were optimistic about future relations with the Soviet Union, an American and British ally just a few months before, and the possible peace that might come from the United Nations, whose Security Council started its first session in London in January 1946. Yet the former and future prime minister delivered a startling message to Americans who were largely unprepared to countenance the prospect of a looming, decades-long conflict against communism after winning the war against fascism. Though the American public was not ready for Churchill's message, at least some in the US government were. "The Sources of Soviet Conduct" (or "The Long Telegram") by George F. Kennan, the deputy chief of mission of the United States to the Soviet Union, arrived secretly to the State Department in Washington, DC, in February 1946. In July 1947 under the pseudonym "Mr. X," Foreign Affairs published this memo describing the need to contain the USSR. Many Americans disliked and criticized the speech. For instance, Christianity and Crisis editor and founder Reinhold Niebuhr called it "ill-timed and ill-advised" in the only reference his journal made to it in 1946. He and others in the publication were discussing the possibility of US-USSR cooperation or alliance, and how the new United Nations might benefit global order with "world government." Niebuhr blamed Churchill for unwisely heightening tensions and undermining a "creative solution" to the "atomic bomb problem." Yet Churchill better understood what the Soviets had already done in Eastern Europe. The problem was not the speech, but the Soviet actions the speech exposed. While many Americans dreamed of an alliance with Moscow and "Uncle Joe" (the friendly image of Joseph Stalin in Western media), they forgot that the Soviet Union had a vote on whether they wanted to be an ally or adversary. In this episode of the Foreign Policy ProvCast, Joseph Loconte and Mark Melton discuss the "Sinews of Peace," the post-World War II situation in Eastern Europe, why the American public and media disliked Churchill's message, what President Harry Truman knew about the speech beforehand, whether or not the future special relationship between the US and UK was obvious in March 1946, and the speech's legacy. Loconte also co-wrote an article with Nile Gardiner about the "Sinews of Peace" for National Review, which can be read here: https://www.nationalreview.com/2021/03/churchills-prophetic-warning-an-iron-curtain-has-descended/

In this Advent Special of the Foreign Policy ProvCast, Mark Melton speaks with Walter Russell Mead about his annual Yule Blog series, which begins on Christmas Eve and runs through Epiphany on January 6. Mead explains that he originally created the Yule Blog several years ago because Americans have forgotten so much about the holiday's religious grounding and message. While the series covers a range of topics over 14 days, Melton and Mead focus on two: first, Mead analyzes the role of Mary in the New Testament and the early church; then he talks about what Jesus' Jewish identity and love of his people means for Christians' love of their country and home, and what it means that Jesus was able to reach out to people from other nations while still loving his own. They conclude by offering a message of what Christmas means in a year that the COVID-19 pandemic has scarred. Particularly, Mead explains that this year, when many are celebrating the holiday away from family, the separation should remind us that the heart of the Christmas holiday isn't about those gatherings or events, but about the birth of Jesus Christ. "So what we're going to live through this year, is Christmas stripped down to the basics, and that may be a way to get in touch as never before with this eruption of meaning into a dark history." To read the Yule Blog over the Twelve Days of Christmas, be sure to visit the website here: https://providencemag.com/category/the-yule-blog/ Walter Russell Mead is a professor of Foreign Affairs and Humanities at Bard College, the Distinguished Scholar in American Strategy and Statesmanship for the Hudson Institute. Global view columnist at the Wall Street Journal. Mark Melton is the managing editor of Providence.

In this episode of the Foreign Policy ProvCast, Mark Melton and Marc LiVecche bring back the "Dark Ops," Providence's podcast movie reviews. They discuss the Netflix series The Liberator, which came out on Veterans Day last month. It's an animated series with four episodes and is based on a book by Alex Kershaw. The miniseries tells the story of Felix Sparks and the 157th Infantry Regiment as they campaign in Italy before landing in Provence, France, and then into Germany. In total, Sparks served 511 days in combat, and after World War II became a brigadier general and the ground commander for the Colorado Army Guard. He also served on the Colorado Supreme Court. Amongst other topics, Melton and LiVecche cover whether the animation helps or hurts the storytelling, how the miniseries covers racism, the history behind the Battle of Aschaffenburg and the Dachau massacre, and what courage looks like. They conclude by explaining why movies and shows about the Second World War are still important.

Starting on September 27, the war between Azerbaijan and Republic of Artsakh resumed. Also known as Nagorno-Karabakh, Artsakh is a region within Azerbaijan that is predominately Armenian, and since 1994 has been controlled by Armenians. The war ended on November 10 with the Armenians of Artsakh losing most of the territory it had controlled. In this episode, Robert Nicholson of the Philos Project talks with Mark Melton about why this war happened, how Turkey was involved, what the Armenians are losing, what the US government should do next, why the world didn't help Artsakh, and what may happen to Armenian Prime Minister Nikol Pashinyan now. Melton and Nicholson also cover how this conflict fits into region's geopolitics and how this all affects the United States. Finally, they discuss what Recep Tayyip Erdoğan may do next, particularly in Cyprus, and what the Biden administration should do more broadly in the Middle East, especially with the Arab–Israeli peace movement.