Mike Livermore speaks with ICA4 Fellow Jakub Growiec, Professor of Economics and Finance at the Warsaw School of Economics. Growiec’s work focuses on the world economy, economic growth, and the interaction between economics and technology.
The podcast begins with Growiec explaining his interest in economics, and the motivations that led him to tailor his work to become more accessible to the general public (:45 – 3:30). He then speaks about the idea of “instrumental convergence,” and why he believes it is an important component in the understanding of intelligence. Growiec explains how the four instrumental goals of artificial intelligence — self-preservation, efficiency, creativity, and resources — can be understood in the context of biological life. Using Nick Bostrom’s “paperclip maximizer” thought experiment, Growiec explains the relationship between general goals and instrumental goals, and hypothesizes about whether we are, in fact, living in a paperclip maximizer scenario and simply do not know it yet (3:35 – 14:02). Shifting focus, Growiec provides his specific definitions of hardware and software, definitions which are much broader than normal, and the relationship between those two things and societal revolution and advancement. Growiec locates these terms within the traditional dichotomy of management (hardware) and labor (software), and explains how advancements in either field have propelled human development. This leads to a discussion of the relationship between these advances in technological development and institutions and policy. Expanding on the difference between hardware and software, Livermore introduces the concept of rivalry, with Growiec explaining how the concept functions within the context of both software and hardware revolutions (14:05 – 35:32). Continuing the conversation on the impact of the software revolution we are currently experiencing, Livermore and Growiec discuss GDP, its limits, and some potential alternatives that we might use to measure economic growth. This part of the conversation touches on a variety of topics, including the contribution of video games to happiness, whether that can be measured via GDP, and the influence Napster and other P2P services had on IP law (35:40 – 49:35). Livermore then raises questions about artificial intelligence and inequality, leading Growiec to speak about those workers who have had their jobs overtaken by automation, and how increased automation will lead to further inequality. Growiec believes that governments will respond too slowly to this reality, but Livermore suggests that governments may incorporate automation as a means to combat some of its more negative aspects (49:39 – 1:08:25).
The Intercontinental Academia (ICA) is a global network of future research leaders sponsored by the University-Based Institutes of Advanced Studies. The ICA4 explores the complementarities between artificial intelligence and neuro/cognitive-science.