David and Natalie discuss spiritual abuse, how it impacts people and some of the ways people experience healing.

David Hayward served the church for about 30 years, then left the ministry in 2010. 

He’s been running the nakedpastor blog since 2005 where he posts his provocative cartoons and articles, as well as his artwork.

He launched an online community called The Lasting Supper, a place for people to change without being judged or instructed, and where they can learn to become spiritually independent.

He’s been cartooning, making art, writing, and speaking around his core passions: personal authentic freedom, the power to change our own lives, community, and the creative spirit to make our world a better place. 

He and his wife live in eastern Canada. They have three adult children.



Natalie Kember offers therapy to Michigan residents who are seeking freedom from spiritual abuse and religious trauma histories.



Reclamation Collective Therapist Directory - Find a therapist in your area who understands religious trauma and spiritual abuse


National Hotline for Mental Health Support in the United States 

Amy Fritz is the founder and host of the Untangled Faith Podcast where she provides information and encouragement for those who have been hurt or disillusioned in their Christian faith. She loves to write and advocate for healthy faith communities. You can find Amy here: Untangled Faith Podcast or here: Untangled Faith Podcast (@untangledfaith) • Instagram photos and videos

Amy explores the way spiritual abuse can manifest in the workplace and her personal experience she lived with her husband working at Ramsey Solutions, Dave Ramsey's company that's based in Tennessee.

Natalie is a therapist in private practice in Michigan who works with those seeking freedom from spiritual abuse and religious trauma. Her information can be found here


Bob Smeita's article called "Is Dave Ramsey's empire the best place to work in America? Say no and you're out"
Ramsey Solution's response to the article

Looking for a religious trauma/spiritual abuse therapist?
Reclamation Collective's Therapist Directory can be a helpful resource 

Del Belcher joins me today on this episode to discuss the work he's doing on TikTok around deconstruction. We talk about how spiritual abuse can lead to an experience of deconstruction, or questioning, of ones faith.

To check out Del's work you can find him on TikTok at: @_delbelcher

Natalie can be found at her website or Instagram: @freedom.from.spiritualabuse

If you're looking for a therapist to help you with religious trauma and/or spiritual abuse check out the Reclamation Collective's Directory.

*If you are finding yourself in the midst of a mental health crisis or emergency call 911 or go to your nearest emergency services. If you are in the United States you can call or text 988 for crisis support. 

Today Cait and I discuss her personal story of growing up in a household that practiced "Christian patriarchy," what that looked like and how it impacted her as she grew. 

Interested in learning more about my work?  My website is a good place to start or find me on Instagram @Freedom.From.SpiritualAbuse

Are you looking for a therapist who understands religious trauma?
Check out the Reclamation Collective's Directory: here.

Cait West is a writer and editor in Grand Rapids, Michigan. She serves on the editorial board for Tears of Eden, a nonprofit providing resources for survivors of spiritual abuse, and has a memoir on escaping the Christian patriarchy movement coming out in 2024.

*Disclaimer* The information in this podcast episode is for educational purposes only and is not clinical mental health advice. If you are in crisis and in need of immediate support you can connect with someone here.

Interested in learning more about my work?  My website is a good place to start or find me on Instagram @Freedom.From.SpiritualAbuse

Are you looking for a therapist who understands religious trauma?
Check out the Reclamation Collective's Directory:

My guest today, Stephanie Gardner Wright can be found on her website and also on Instagram @StephanieGardnerWright

*Disclaimer* The information in this podcast episode is for educational purposes only and is not clinical mental health advice. If you are in crisis and in need of immediate support you can connect with someone here. 

Interested in learning more about my work? My website  (here) is a good place to start, or find me on Instagram @Freedom.From.SpiritualAbuse

Looking for a therapist who understands religious trauma? Check out the Reclamation Collective: https://www.reclamationcollective.com/find-a-therapist

My guest today, Rachel Ann Dine, can be found at her website (here) or on Instagram @DineInPsychology. Check out her YouTube Channel (here) for more on the great work she does surrounding high control groups.

The transcript for today's episode is available here.

*Disclaimer* The information in this podcast episode is not clinical mental health advice. Instead, it is for educational purposes only. 

Welcome to Freedom from Spiritual Abuse the Podcast. This brief introduction introduces the concepts of spiritual abuse, religious trauma and how it can impact people. It shares the importance of having these tough conversations so those suffering can find hope for freedom and to prevent others from becoming victims.