Fringe Legal

In this episode of Fringe Legal, recorded live from ILTACON 2024 in Nashville, Tennessee, Ab sits down with JoeySeeber, CEO of Level Legal.

Joey discusses the journey and growth of Level Legal over 15 years, starting during the Great Recession. The conversation delves into various aspects of building a business for longevity, maintaining a startup mindset in a small company, and delivering services in a human-centric way.

Joey shares insights on their framework and principles for doing business, client feedback, handling competition, and the role of technology in enhancing efficiency.

Read the episode takeaways at: https://www.fringelegal.com/balancing-technology-and-human-connection-in-legal-services-with-joey-seeber

In this episode of the Fringe Legal podcast, host Ab interviews Stefan Ciesla, the co-founder and CEO of Ayora ai, a startup that focuses on helping law firms manage their revenues and improve the revenue management skills of fee earners such as attorneys and lawyers.

Steven discusses the problem Ayora is solving in the legal industry and the role of lawyers as revenue managers. He explains that fee earners often have to make revenue management decisions throughout a matter's lifecycle, but they may not have the necessary skills or focus on revenue management. Ayora's smart lockup assistant helps fee earners by scanning a firm's data related to matters and providing recommendations on monitoring scope, estimates, budgets, resourcing, outside counsel guidelines, and billing. The assistant pre-drafts emails and provides relevant information to make the decision-making process easier and more efficient. Steven also addresses the challenge of balancing AI and machine learning with human control and building trust in the recommendations made. He emphasizes that Ayora prioritizes transparency and user consent and never takes any action without the attorney's knowledge.

Key takeaways:

• Fee earners in law firms, such as attorneys and lawyers, often need to make revenue management decisions throughout a matter's lifecycle but may not have the necessary skills or focus on revenue management.
• Ayora's smart lockup assistant helps fee earners monitor scope, estimates, budgets, resourcing, outside counsel guidelines, and billing, providing recommendations and pre-drafting emails to make decision-making easier and more efficient.
• Ayora prioritizes transparency and user consent, ensuring that attorneys have control over the recommendations made by the system.

Uncommon learning
The legal industry may be missing out on billions of dollars of additional value due to suboptimal revenue management decisions.

Podcast show notes

00:02 Introduction to the Fringe Legal Podcast

00:29 Guest Introduction: Stefan Ciesla, Co-founder and CEO of Ayora

00:58 Steven's Background and Ayora's Founding Team

02:07 The Unique Blend of Ayora's Founding Team

02:55 Understanding Ayora's Mission and Purpose

04:24 The Role of Lawyers as Revenue Managers

04:43 The Impact of Decision-Making on Revenue Management

08:28 Introducing Ayora's Smart Lockup Assistant

20:20 The Role of AI and Machine Learning in Decision-Making

27:05 The Impact of Fixed Fee Work on Revenue Management

30:12 Conclusion and Contact Information

In this episode of the Fringe Legal podcast, host Ab chats with Conan Hines, Director of Legal Technology at Fried Frank, about building a tech-enabled culture in law firms. Conan shares insights from his previous roles at Clifford Chance and other law firms, highlighting the importance of understanding the role of legal technology and the psychology and behavior of users when it comes to successful adoption and change management.

Conan emphasizes the need for building trust with lawyers and finding those who are curious and open to tech-enabled solutions. He suggests starting small with bite-sized engagements to build trust over time. He also discusses the value of creating a foundation for tech adoption and balancing short-term impact with long-term goals.

The conversation delves into the role of vendors in adoption, with Conan highlighting the need for a strong partnership and a transparent framework for success. He stresses the importance of vendors having a real adoption strategy and sharing learnings from what has worked in the past.

Ab and Conan also discuss the challenge of incentives and tracking adoption. They explore the idea of integrating technology training into legal training to emphasize the value and importance of tech skills for lawyers. Ultimately, the key to successful adoption and building a tech-enabled culture in law firms lies in trust, continuous communication, and demonstrating the value of technology.

Key takeaways:

• Building a tech-enabled culture requires understanding the role of legal technology and the psychology and behavior of users.
• Trust is essential for successful adoption. Lawyers need to believe that tech solutions can help them.
• Adoption plans should be simplified and tailored to individual users.
• Integration of technology training into legal training can help emphasize the value of tech skills for lawyers.
• Vendors should have a strong adoption strategy and share learnings from past successes.

Uncommon learning:

Tech adoption requires a partnership between law firms and vendors, with a focus on transparency and continuous communication.

While technology races ahead, improving legal training and education has lagged behind. Law schools excel at teaching students the law, but critical and practical skills development is often lacking. With the traditional law firm apprenticeship model fading, junior lawyers frequently lack opportunities to gain hands-on experience.

Abdi Shayesteh, founder and CEO of the legal training platform AltaClaro, is on a mission to close this practical skills gap. Frustrated by the inefficiencies he experienced firsthand as a junior lawyer, Abdi has reinvented legal education and training. AltaClaro leverages experiential learning techniques rooted in education science to provide associates with hands-on practice on simulated legal matters.

Show Notes

• [00:01:14] Abdi's early entrepreneurial experiences managing a cafe and starting a t-shirt business in college
• [00:08:02] Why Abdi decided to start another company after previous exits
• [00:10:25] Overview of what AltaClaro does
• [00:17:38] Issues with the traditional law firm training model
• [00:23:00] Explanation of the learning science principles AltaClaro leverages
• [00:34:59] Training trends Abdi sees law firms requesting for 2023

As part of our series of examining Generative AI in Practice, Fringe Legal spoke with Stephanie Corey, founder of legal operations consultancy UpLevel Ops, and Brandi Pack, UpLevel’s Legal Tech Analyst & AI Consultant. They share how legal teams can thoughtfully leverage generative AI to transform workflows, augment human skills, and futureproof roles. With proper governance and training, we can keep pace with the evolution of AI and maximize its potential.

Show notes:

Show Notes:

[00:02:19] Getting early access to GPT-4

[00:08:00] How are the Uplevel Ops team grew adoption internally

[00:11:53] People don't care about AI
[00:14:51] Why to document prompts
[00:18:06] How are legal teams reacting to the changing landscape

[00:28:38] GenAI as a workflow tool
[00:31:03] What's the future?

[00:34:16] Will my role be displaced?

[00:38:47] What one thing can organizations do to see immediate value from GenAI?

We sat down with Jeff Pfeifer, Chief Product Officer at LexisNexis during ILTACON 2023 to get his insights on legal AI progress, hype versus reality, increased law firm adoption, and the importance of demonstrating tangible benefits.

Topics covered:

• Navigating the legal AI hype cycle
• AI’s potential to enhance legal workflows
• Growing law firm interest and hands-on exploration
• Avoiding the “trough of disillusionment”
• Real-world benefits driving adoption over hype

In this episode of Fringe Legal, host Abhijat Saraswat interviews Nnamdi Emelifeonwu and Feargus MacDaeid, co-founders of legal tech startup Definely.

Key Takeaways:

• Definely creates software plugins to simplify drafting, reviewing, and analyzing legal contracts in Microsoft Word using AI/ML.
• The idea originated from Feargus' need as a blind lawyer to access information in documents more easily.
• They validated demand with a scrappy prototype and early pilots despite its flaws.
• After leaving law firm jobs, their mission-driven approach focuses on access, efficiency, and transparency.
• Their blueprint for innovation includes launching an MVP, inclusive design thinking, gathering user feedback, and carefully leveraging AI.
• Maintaining ethics and reputation is central, not rushing new technology to market.
• When solving problems for underserved groups, solutions often benefit everyone.
• A framework for evaluating AI: accuracy and understanding real-world impacts.

Connect with Nnamdi Emelifeonwu

Connect with Feargus MacDaeid

Learn more about Definely

ESG (environmental, social, governance) factors have become essential considerations for companies seeking to manage risk, attract investment, and operate sustainably.

Yet myths and misconceptions persist around what ESG is and how best to approach it. This leads many legal teams to view ESG as an amorphous compliance exercise rather than a strategic priority.

Recently on the Fringe Legal podcast, Abhijat Saraswat interviewed ESG expert Kai Gray, CEO of advisory firm Motiv, to demystify ESG and offer practical guidance for legal professionals. In this episode, learn what ESG means and how legal teams can pragmatically prioritize it. Get clarity on ESG frameworks, strategic rollout, and avoiding common pitfalls.

Summary:

In this insightful episode of Fringe Legal, host Abhijat Saraswat has an in-depth discussion with India Preston, Director of Platform Solutions at legal tech startup Lupl. They delve into India's winding journey into legal project management, tactical approaches to driving adoption, and how to effectively challenge established processes.

India shares learnings and advice drawn from her diverse experiences - from helping build out Linklaters' LPM function from the ground up to make the leap to an early-stage legal tech startup. She provides a rare longitudinal view of how legal project management has evolved from a little-known concept in 2013 to a widely recognized, if still poorly understood, discipline today.

Key Takeaways:

• While LPM has gone from barely existing in 2013 to being commonly known today, there is still substantial room for education on how to apply it effectively. LPM principles empower lawyers to run matters like projects, but specialized LPM roles create incremental value on complex matters.
• Project management qualifications alone don't cut it for legal project managers to be successful. Soft skills to integrate smoothly with lawyers and legal teams are just as important, if not more so. Technical skills can be learned on the job.
• Identifying concrete problems that need solving is absolutely crucial before adopting any new solution or technology. Without an anchor in specific pain points, adoption will struggle no matter how exciting the new solution seems at first glance.
• Rollouts of new technology or processes should start small and be targeted before expanding more widely across a firm. The tendency may be to go big with a splashy firmwide launch, but this rarely succeeds.
• Resources like use case guides, template libraries, and informal user communities help drive adoption by making the novel feel familiar. However, these need to be grounded in solving real firm problems.
• Process mapping workshops - with the help of an unbiased external facilitator - can challenge status quo thinking and processes in extremely constructive ways. Just asking "why" repeatedly can unearth entrenched inefficiencies.

Actionable Takeaway: Start Small Before Going Wide

Explore in detail at Fringe Legal.

In this episode, our guests Brad Blickstein, David Cambria, and returning guest Keith Maziarek join host Ab to discuss the findings from the 3rd Legal Pricing and Project Management (LPMM) Survey Report. 

They delve into the key challenges and trends shaping the legal industry, touching upon innovation, technology, client expectations, and the future of legal service delivery. Tune in to explore the data and analysis from the report, as these experts share their perspectives on the current state and future of legal operations.

Key discussion points:

• [00:02:16] The current state of law firm investments in innovation and technology
• [00:10:45] Contradictions between client expectations and rewarded behaviors
• [00:18:50] Challenges faced by law firm and legal department executives in adopting process and collaboration improvements
• [00:27:12] The real threat to law firm success and how to address it
• [00:34:23] The impact of economic downturns on the legal industry and the potential for future transformation

Don't miss this in-depth conversation that offers valuable insights for legal professionals interested in legal tech, legal project management, and legal service delivery.

A more in-depth commentary is available on FringeLegal.com